CAMEROONPRIDE: You want people to starve?

People will not starve, actually the opposite will happen.

There is enough farmland in Nigeria to feed, not only herself, but all of west Africa. Yet, we import rice and grain and stupid chink noodles from Asia. Does that make sense?

If Nigeria left the global economy that would enable our local food manufactures to fill in the market, and provide all the food for the country. Despite w/e people say importation is bad, it represents an outflow of money out of the country and gives jobs to foreigners.

CAMEROONPRIDE:
I understand perfectly, but the fact is our actual and past leaders didn't make a technological transfer, I mean if we close our doors , how do we cure cancer? How do we build x-ray machines? What I mean is it will take too much time and we as people are not willing to give that time , I always say to my peeps that African are European/western with black skins we love their life..for example after you close your doors how do you tell/explain to a Nigerian that he can't buy a Mercedes keep in mind that we dont have car industries , nor aviation etc , we don't even manufacture our own vaccines talk less about our condoms lol...closing the doors will b too harsh , what we need is education and good leaders that will b able to negotiate fair contracts with Western, we also need to learn to consume African, start patronizing our own stuffs... Do you know how many African refuse to flight with their local companies? There's is no trust

@ the bolded are we doing all that stuff now though?

Africa's situation is getting worse and worse... if we don't do something drastic soon the natural resources will run out, leaving us with nothing to show for it.

The reason why African's don't invest in technology, medicine etc... is because we don't have to. It is much easier to simply import these things than to make it ourselves. A small Nigerian inventor cannot compete with a European or Chinese company, this is how globalization has mitigated the benefits of capitalism for African countries.

We have the educated people... more than enough for the jobs, its time to stop complaining about bad leaders and fight for an economic system that will actually bring change.

Let me give you an example, generators. Because we import generators, no indigenous Africans are attempting to make them. This is because we cannot compete with the foreign companies low costs and economies of scale.

But, we have the intelligence to make them... African school girls have invented a generator that runs on urine!

http://www.psfk.com/2012/11/generator-runs-off-urine.html

however these young geniouses will never get the chance to exploit the Nigerian market because they are forced to compete with multi-billion dollar foreign companies. Leaving the globalist system will remove this competition and allow african ingenuity to flourish.

The economic revolution starts with the leaders, they are the one who sign everything. They must take the blame

About the leaders.... what can we do, Kill them?

Thats a joke, but i wish from the bottom of my heart that Boko-haram and other such groups would spend their time taking out corrupt nigerian politicians instead of innocent civilians.

pleep: @ the bolded are we doing all that stuff now though?

Africa's situation is getting worse and worse... if we don't do something drastic soon the natural resources will run out leaving us with nothing to show for it.

The reason why African's don't invest in technology, medicine etc... is because we don't have to. It is much easier to simply import these things than to make it ourselves. A small Nigerian inventor cannot compete with a European or Chinese company, this is how globalization has mitigated the benefits of capitalism for African countries.

We have the educated people... more than enough for the jobs, its time to stop complaining about bad leaders and fight for an economic system that will actually bring change.

Let me give you an example, generators. Because we import generators, no indigenous Africans are attempting to make them. This is because we cannot compete with the foreign companies low costs and economies of scale.

But, we have the intelligence to make them... African school girls have invented a generator that runs on urine!

http://www.psfk.com/2012/11/generator-runs-off-urine.html

however these young geniouses will never get the chance to exploit the Nigerian market because they are forced to compete with multi-billion dollar foreign companies. Leaving the globalist system will remove this competition and allow african ingenuity to flourish.

Like I said education.

First of voice I share your opinion in fact I'm for the merging of West Africa( Cameroon include) to form a bigger economic bloc.

Where I disagree is about how and when to apply your policy as I'm talking we can't stand on our own. The industrial tissue of Africa is too weak even to serve only African countries. For example how many non Nigerian and non Western brands do you know?

Or better let me ask u a question if I open a shoes factory won't u keep buying Jordans ,Nike etc?

Can u buy an innosson car or better will u buy it ?
African in general have been deceived and are not ready to fight for a inch ..
Let me explain : you know democracy(Western kind if that makes sense) is overrated right? Well I do , I tried to voice my views on diff Cameroonian groups etc I have been banned countless times , explaining to an African that he should accept lower wages for the good of his country, telling him Cameroon spending billions to make elections when people are dying on our roads is pointless, telling them to go back in Cameroon after their degrees and accept lower wages. Etc is like explaining statistics to a deaf and blind person.

What I'm trying to say is most of us tasted Western life, most of us are deceived by the T.v showing the West as a paradise and u think there are ready to drop their life style? Vacate in Europe, caviar, sardines of Spain etc.


We need leaders, not the looters and puppets we have actually lol
....

pleep: About the leaders.... what can we do, Kill them?

Thats a joke, but i wish from the bottom of my heart that Boko-haram and other such groups would spend their time taking out corrupt nigerian politicians instead of innocent civilians.

I'm for the shooting or hanging of these brainless blood sucker

What I'm trying to say is at the minute you try such things a coup d'etat, your own people will kill you: Thomas Sankara and Patrice Lumumba are great examples of African mentality.there's always a traitor

pleep: People will not starve, actually the opposite will happen.

There is enough farmland in Nigeria to feed, not only herself, but all of west Africa. Yet, we import rice and grain and stupid chink noodles from Asia. Does that make sense?

If Nigeria left the global economy that would enable our local food manufactures to fill in the market, and provide all the food for the country. Despite w/e people say importation is bad, it represents an outflow of money out of the country and gives jobs to foreigners.

People will starve. Nigeria is about to hit/reach 200M you cant feed them with an archaic agriculture or subsistence agriculture. How many farmers in Nigeria use tractors? Do u manufacture tractors? Planes? We are still struggling to have running water , constant power .

We must do what China is doing ...import a product we don't have(sample) copy the product and try to do our own , when we are able to do our own stop the importation.


Anecdote: that's how the Chinese deceived the French for the construction of their metro/subways locomotives, they invited them(the company) which of course came with a sample and different plans etc..at the end of the meeting the Chinese said they will think about it. Next thing we heard is we will do it ourselves.

^ they steal/copy what they don't have and don't mind that much the quality.

Same with their weapons and jet fighters

Let me explain : you know democracy(Western kind if that makes sense) is overrated right? Well I do , I tried to voice my views on diff Cameroonian groups etc I have been banned countless times , explaining to an African that he should accept lower wages for the good of his country, telling him Cameroon spending billions to make elections when people are dying on our roads is pointless, telling them to go back in Cameroon after their degrees and accept lower wages. Etc is like explaining statistics to a deaf and blind person.

What I'm trying to say is most of us tasted Western life, most of us are deceived by the T.v showing the West as a paradise and u think there are ready to drop their life style? Vacate in Europe, caviar, sardines of Spain etc.


We need leaders, not the looters and puppets we have actually lol

Absolutely, i agree 100%... what Africans need is a strong authoritarian government that is actually looking out for the good of the people. Like what they have in china.

Africans are too unruly and selfish to practice democracy, we are also divided by tribe, religion, culture and every other barrier imaginable.

Anyone who thinks western democracy will work in Africa is a plumb fool.

Like I said education.

First of voice I share your opinion in fact I'm for the merging of West Africa( Cameroon include) to form a bigger economic bloc.

Why do you keep saying education, we have enough education but it is getting us nowhere.

Why do africans love education so much, did education stop Timbuktu from falling into shyte?

But i wholeheartedly agree with you about a West & central African economic bloc, such an entity could practically function independently of the entire world. We would have all the resources we need to have an incredibly powerful global force

Where I disagree is about how and when to apply your policy as I'm talking we can't stand on our own. The industrial tissue of Africa is too weak even to serve only African countries. For example how many non Nigerian and non Western brands do you know?

Or better let me ask u a question if I open a shoes factory won't u keep buying Jordans ,Nike etc?

Can u buy an innosson car or better will u buy it ?

Exactly! thats the point of this whole thread... In the current globalist system Aficans have no incentive to buy locally produced goods.

If Africa left the global economy, and the government taxed foreign products so highly that they became unpopular, Africans would be forced to patronize local industry, creating jobs and technology for our people.

Education is too broad, what I mean is a more "ethnocentric" education

Stop calling white colonialist but call them invaders. Sounds futile right but trust me it makes a big difference, many Africans as m typing think white men brought civilization to us...I have people with degree telling me that we should thanks the white men for some reasons.


By education, I also mean learn to dream and think
Opeb faculties for nuclear researches, and others scientific challenges .
Education is the key, our education is actually a lunch of Western achievements and history. Discoveries etc.

CAMEROONPRIDE:

People will starve. Nigeria is about to hit/reach 200M you cant feed them with an archaic agriculture or subsistence agriculture. How many farmers in Nigeria use tractors? Do u manufacture tractors? Planes? We are still struggling to have running water , constant power .

hmmm... maybe you are right. I'm thinking about demographic transition charts i saw in class.. and basically most of the increased population growth in 3rd world countries is either directly or indirectly related to globalism.

if you take that away.. people will die

If this plan is to work without loss of life, it would need to be done slowly... though higher taxes on foreign goods, not an outright ban. If foreign food imports were taxed to the point where local production was just marginally more profitable.. we could expect to see the investment in the local sector sky rocket

If this is done the transition from importation to local production would be much smoother, and so when the government decides Nigeria is at a point where all food importation can be banned, it could be done without to much harm to the population.

^^ you got it

We also need to stop paying officials monthly and implement an hourly type of wages..with machines controlling your presence at ur workplace.

I know some people who spent months abroad for no reasons but they kept receiving their salaries.

Paying officials or any workers monthly is a waste of money , they barely spend +7hours working and during these hours sometimes they are not even doing their jobs..you see secretaries doing their nails, making calls, chatting etc

We should also lower our standards and b aware that Rome has been built in one day.

Let's learn to consume African and product our own.

Last but not the least stop spending billions on rigged elections and shoot down any corrupt/looters person(officials).

......

I'm for Cameroon leaving the U.N eh eh people were insulting me the day I said that.

What are we gaining from that organization? Permits to kill our own brothers?

Orders to who to deal with?

We agree on alot bro.

I hate everything about the U.N

pleep: We agree on alot bro.

I hate everything about the U.N

Eh eh

That means there is still hope for our continent and countries

...and this thread makes a grand return

pleep: About the leaders.... what can we do, Kill them?

Thats a joke, but i wish from the bottom of my heart that Boko-haram and other such groups would spend their time taking out corrupt nigerian politicians instead of innocent civilians.

You are not alone on that BH wish. I actually think 90% of Nigerians have that desire.

I do think you have made up your mind on the isolation topic and don't intend to be moved to left or right of the conversation.

I'm not an economist I have an engineering discipline, so I can't expand much on international trade.

But arguments here have shown isolation is not the best practice rather we need to pursue fair contracts that benefit the nation.

We need a national policy that would allow us build on what we have and improve where we are lacking.

Nigeria is a country without guiding ideologies, neither ACN or PDP can be described as left , right or centrist.

They all are after political office for the money and power. And without defining ideologies we can't agree/vote on what we want. When was the last time we voted on an african union referendum. Never!

pleep: We agree on alot bro.

I hate everything about the U.N

African nations need not leave the U.N. , what we need Is to have a collective agreement within the A.U and strengthen the A.U has is the case with the E.U.

African matters need to be identified, concluded and solved by and through the A.U with the U.N lending assistance where needed upon request.
We need to negotiate a stronger presence on the security council with a veto right equal to the other members of the council.

However that would never occur. The French influence on francophone nations in Africa is too great. And they are a great hindrance to A.U interests

I do think you have made up your mind on the isolation topic and don't intend to be moved to left or right of the conversation.

I have demonstrated time and time and again that i am willing to change my opinion on any issue as long as the counter arguement disproves my own.

Globalism has failed in 130 countries. Every year the number of impoverished people grows higher, the gap between the richest countries and the poorest countries gets higher, and the gap between the richest people and the poorest people within those countries gets higher. This is the fact of capitalism... it is a system where the rich get richer and the poor get poorer, not only within individual countries, but on the global level.

When i hear Africans defending globalism (global capitalism) it is like hearing a 1830's sweatshop worker defending his condition. In is his small brain he thinks that, if he works hard enough, he will achieve the American dream... But the owners of the factory know this will never happen, so they let him believe his fairy-tale.

Nigeria is that sweatshop worker... at the very bottom of the capitalist food chain, and kept at the bottom by the weight of the system he is carrying.

All of this is the proven result of capitalism.... African industry can never grow when it has to compete against multi-billion dollar corporations.

Whether or not you people want to believe isolationism is the solution, no poster here has posted a concrete blue-print for a country like Nigeria to escape the weight of the capitalist pyramid except me.

And people expect to change my opinion when they cant disprove these facts?

^^ what I don't like with African is they talk, talk , talk again, but when they reach the power and have to lead or make the right decisions they become clueless

Dude trust me... every night i dream about the day i get the power to put all my crazy theories into action.

pleep: Dude trust me... every night i dream about the day i get the power to put all my crazy theories into action.

My twin

pleep: Dude trust me... every night i dream about the day i get the power to put all my crazy theories into action.

We'd rather be spared your crazy theories though, globalization fosters competition, development and therefore progress. An american president cut off trade with Europe, I think it was Jefferson, he was ribbed for, it ruined their economy and ultimately he was never re-elected, IBB did the same I think and ruined our economy as well, international trade is good for a country, to stimulate industrialization and development of a country we have this thing called international tariffs, isolation is pretty extreme and ruinous to boot, perish the thought.

Well, like i have stated previously the title plan of total isolationism is a little exaggerated, if you read through the thread you would see that this idea is mainly about tarrifs and protectionist economics.

So we actually agree on that point.

But i want to ask you a question... what makes you think Africa as a whole can ever rise from the bottom of the capitalist pryamid? A pyramid that only stands on the backs of African resources. All your rebuttals are mute until someone gives a better plan than what is seen in the title page.

The second Africa as a continent leaves the base of the globalism the system will implode. Do any of you dare debate that with me?

Globalism functions like this: The bottom produces raw materials - The middle produces manufacutes goods- the top creates service and technology

If the countries of Africa ever developed globalism would loose it legs, that is why africa must find a path to development outside the globalist system.

When you organize this info into a pyramid, you realize that Africa forms the base the capitalism. The only reason Russa is colored red, is because of its oil sales to europe, eastern europe because of its cheap labor.

globalism stands on the back of africa

pleep:
But i want to ask you a question... what makes you think Africa as a whole can ever rise from the bottom of the capitalist pryamid? A pyramid that only stands on the backs of African resources. All your rebuttals are mute until someone gives a better plan than what is seen in the title page.

The problems in Africa are mostly self inflicted, countries in endless sectarian wars and so on and so forth. Nigeria for example is suffering because the federal government created the states and not the other way around. The states are outlined generally across ethnic lines so they somewhat represent the people so put it this way, we are in a country where the states(the people) have no power and are all dissatisfied with the terms of this union ithat is run by a federal government that represents nobody and so we constantly bickering over everything, there is going to be no progress. That is Nigerians problem, decay then sets in and corruption becomes rampant, Nigerians are far too different for the federal government, a single division to govern us all, we all want different things and whomever the president is most people at any given time will not be represented in aso rock so we end up in a cycle of fighting and bickering, the north always trying to keep the igbos down because they are worried they want to secede and everybody trying to syphon oil to their state because the federal allocation system forces us to depend on oil so everybody wants it. The result is that Nigeria is a land of people who are set up to fight each other endlessly over every little thing and do nothing else,, poor separation of power. Other African countries like Kenya have two major tribes that are endlessly fighting to rule the country and every corrupt politician caught turns it into a tribalist thing and everybody starts to slaughter his neighbour. What African countries need are constitutions written for each individual country as is needed by those countries, also if Nigeria can turn itself around Africa will prosper, Nigeria and Egypt are two countries in a unique position to transform the lives of Africans.

In short, Nigerian problem is the state of our union, no one is content so we are not going anywhere.

This is why i say your points are mute. Even if africa's leaders were the best in the world, how could they realistically move the continent to the top of the capitalist pyramid, when without us at the base, the whole system will implode?

What do you think would happen if Africa suddenly became industrilized, where would the rest of the world get its natural resources from?

When Africa starts to see real industrilization the entire system of globalism will collapse, bringing everyone back to square one. Do you think China and the west will let that happen? This is why i say we need to abandon this system and find our own way.

Africans are always complaining about the government, bad leaders etc. But don't yall realize that capitalism is supposed to function well when the government is not involved? Did the American government have to build the U.S steel industry, standard oil, or the railroad corporations?

The only reason Africa cannot create industry without the help of the government is because globalism has created a market so competitive (via economies of scale) that indigenous industry cannot start-up without government assistance ....This is how globalism forced Africans to rely on the government for things we should be doing ourselves.

Globalism has negated the benefits of the free-market for indigenous industries and relegated most of the continent to the bottom of the pyramid, so far none of you have even tried to dispute this.

Your problem is that you are arguing with yourself, I dunno what you mean by leave globalization behind if yoou are not talking about something extreme like what the North Koreans are doing because most countries have some sort of tariff for different commodities. You talk about resources, most of Nigeria's resources are still in the ground and are never touched, the same goes for many other countries in africa, alll they do in sudan is kill each other, mali, these countries have no struggling industries, gold, diamond oil these are the only things that are extracted from africa in bulk as far as I know, there are the odd few others but to identify Nigeria for example as the location where america gets its resources to manufacture is cars in china is quite the stretch. I am not here to argue about globalization and I never disputed it, my beef here was with the idea of Nigeria withdrawing into its shell as a way of starving the people of these goods so that they'd make their own and that was it.

I offered a more reasonable solution to Nigerias problem and you didn't consider it or explain to me exactly what made it wrong you just wrote it off since it doesn't speak to your point. Again, as for isolation, I already said IBB did something similar it backfired, Thomas Jeffersons embargo act also backfired.

I get that you are offering a solution to our situation but I believe fixing Nigeria, which is ultimately what matters to me is more an issue of finding out why we are where we are and fixing that, if more level headed solutions fail then we can consider extreme ones.

Maybe i am argueing with myself, but the point i am trying to make is that Africa cannot develop within the globalist framework and so we must leave.

I understand that people think isolationism is too extreme a solution, perhaps it is, but no one here has put forth a more realistic plan than that.

Like i said to you earlier, i agree that a stronger tariff system and protectionist policies are the way to go. About your point about Jefferson, are you talking about when the U.S imposed huge tarrifs on European machinery imports in the mid 1800's? While you are correct it was an unpopular policy, especially with the agriculture sector, that decision was basically the birth of the American industry

... the benefits of which we see to this day.

O.k you are talking about the embargo act.

Thats a good point, but you are ignoring the fact that Africa's situation is different. We export almost nothing but natural resourses. That means we could stop most foreign imports and the rest of the world would still have to buy from us.