Have read a lot on nairaland about Mary mother of Jesus and no disrespect on anybody.My question then "is there any where in the bible where it was written that Mary,mother of Jesus is in heaven or any evidence to ascertain that she is in heaven",so why all this fuss about mary mother of Lord Jesus being a saint.

We want also a proof from you that she is not a saint and also not in heaven.

Yes there is.I personally asked her to pray for me to her son in heaven to be able to secure a job in 2008 and she did.

Antivirus92: We want also a proof from you that she is not a saint and also not in heaven.

42 Then he said, “Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom.”
43 Jesus answered him, “Truly I tell you, today you will be with me in paradise.”Luke 23:42-43
There is evidence to support the thief on the cross,Mary could be in heaven,thats an assumption and that will be because she accepted Jesus as her LORD and saviour,any other reason aside from that I doubt if she is in heaven then.But I have never read of a particular part where it was written that Mary made it to heaven.

chukwudi44: Yes there is.I personally asked her to pray for me to her son in heaven to be able to secure a job in 2008 and she did.

The Bible nowhere mentions anyone asking for someone in heaven to pray for him.The Bible nowhere describes anyone in heaven praying for anyone on earth.Maybe you point out that to me then I will believe she is in heaven.Besides the job could be a coincidence,because the fact that I prayed to chukwudi44 that something will happen and it happens doesnt mean chukwudi44 answered the prayer

Bible without doctrine is rubbish! That's why catholic remains the best. The bible contains alot of heavenly meanings which the catholic doctrine brought to our earthly understandings. Reading the bible and thinking that you'll understand it straight is a LIE. That's why all these pentecostal churches will continue to be confused till eternity. Jesus is peace but there was a version in the bible he said that he came not to bring peace but war and division. That kind of passages cannot be understood merely without doctrine. Or maybe you do try fasting forty days and forty nights, afterall Jesus did it.

@op

The gospel and letters of john makes it absolutely clear that not everything was written down by the apostles.As to my prayers being answered simply been a coincidence I really don't think so since millions of catholics have similar testimonies.There can't all be coincidences I just wanted to point out my own personal experience.Evidences abound about mary's heavenly stay I didn't even mention her numerous apparitions around the globe most notably quadalupe,lordes and fatima.

You also claim there is no evidence of anyone in heaving praying for someone on earth.This is fallacious as the winged creatures and twenty four elders where seen offering prayers for christians on earth here

Search
Enter the Bible passage (e.g., John 3:16), keyword (e.g., Jesus, prophet, etc.) or topic (e.g., salvation)





Revelation 5:8
New International Version (NIV)

8 And when he had taken it, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders
fell down before the Lamb. Each one had a harp
and they were holding golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of God’s people.

<< < =
Besides if you had a complete bible you would have read about the vision of judas macabees in 2 macabees 12 where the prophet jeremiah in heaven was praying for the isrealites on earth

Antivirus92: Bible without doctrine is rubbish!

doc·trine is a rule or principle: a rule or principle that forms the basis of a belief, theory, or policy
2. ideas taught as truth: a body of ideas, particularly in religion, taught to people as truthful or correct
what is the doctrine based on,a doctrine doesnt necessarily mean it is right

Antivirus92: That kind of passages cannot be understood merely without doctrine.

All Scripture is inspired by God 2 Timothy 3:16,But there is a spirit in man: and the inspiration of the Almighty gives him understanding Job 32:8
Cannot be understood without doctrine sounds funny,when infact only the author of the bible himself can interpret it(Holy Spirit)

chukwudi44: @op

The gospel and letters of john makes it absolutely clear that not everything was written down by the apostles.

But these are written, that you might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing you might have life through his name.John 20:31
I agree

chukwudi44: Revelation 5:8

New International Version (NIV)
8 And when he had taken it, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders
fell down before the Lamb. Each one had a harp
and they were holding golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of God’s people.

Rev. 5:8-14
...Verse 8 says speaks of the "golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints." Verses 9-10 speak of a new song sung in heaven. Verse 11 speaks of those around the throne of God and verse 12 says that they were saying "Worthy is the Lamb..." Verse 13 mentions every created thing in heaven and earth saying, "To Him who sits on the throne, and to the lamb, be blessing and honor and glory and dominion forever and ever."
I have no problem with those in heaven hearing what is said on earth.Many Christians deny that this is possible, but it seems to be clearly taught here.
Regarding verse 8, can the prayers be authored by those who are already in heaven? It doesn't say. There are different interpretations on exactly who the saints are because their identity can't be precisely demonstrated; after all, Revelation is a highly symbolic book. Therefore, if it cannot be demonstrated conclusively who they are, then it cannot be demonstrated conclusively whose prayers they are, either. Nevertheless, verse 9 says "they sang a new song." Who is the "they"? It would have to be either the the four living creatures and/or the 24 elders since "prayers of the saints" don't sing, "creatures" and "elders" do the singing.
In verse 11-12 the angels, the creatures, and the elders who were all around the throne (which means they are in heaven) were praising God directly. In verse 13 it says every created thing in heaven and earth was praising God, then the elders fell down and worshiped, v. 14.
...Just because those in heaven can hear the prayers of those on Earth does not mean that is okay to pray to saints. If they can hear the prayers of people it is because God grants that to them. Think about it. Can those in heaven hear the prayers uttered without speech? Can they read minds? It is only God who knows all things and only God can grant anyone to hear or know what the prayers are of those who pray in silence. Let's not give the saints superhuman powers similar to omniscience. Nevertheless, all the text is saying is that they can hear the praise and worship of God. It does not say that they are to receive prayers, nor does it imply praying to them is permitted. All it says is that they can hear the prayers and praise.

chukwudi44: Besides if you had a complete bible you would have read about the vision of judas macabees in 2 macabees 12 where the prophet jeremiah in heaven was praying for the isrealites on earth

2 Maccabees 12:43-46
Judas, the ruler of Israel, took up a collection among all his soldiers, amounting to two thousand silver drachmas, which he sent to Jerusalem to provide for an expiatory sacrifice. In doing this he acted in a very excellent and noble way, inasmuch as he had the resurrection of the dead in view; for if he were not expecting the fallen to rise again, it would have been useless and foolish to pray for them in death. But if he did this with a view to the splendid reward that awaits those who had gone to rest in godliness, it was a holy and pious thought. Thus he made atonement for the dead that they might be freed from this sin.
Now I understand where the concept of purgatory is coming from and the concept of prayer for the dead.I will get back to you

I actually meant macabees 15:12-16

12 He told them that he had seen a vision of Onias, the former High Priest, that great and wonderful man of humble and gentle disposition, who was an outstanding orator and who had been taught from childhood how to live a virtuous life. With outstretched arms Onias was praying for the entire Jewish nation.

13 Judas then saw an impressive white-haired man of great dignity and authority.

14 Onias said:

         This is God's prophet Jeremiah, who loves the Jewish people and offers many prayers for us and for Jerusalem, the holy city.

 15 Then Jeremiah stretched out his right hand and gave Judas a gold sword, saying as he did so,

16

         This holy sword is a gift from God. Take it and destroy your enemies.

 17 The eloquent words that Judas spoke encouraged everyone to be brave, and inspired boys to fight like men. Their city, their religion, and their Temple were in danger. So the Jews made up their minds not to waste any time, but to make a daring attack against the enemy and bravely decide their fate in hand-to-hand combat.

That passage is actually 2 macabess. 15:12-17 and not 1 macabees 15:12-17

@OP, we know that the mother of God is in heaven. If you think she's in hell, good for you.

Its amazing how no one picks up the fact that we know almost nothing about Mary.

She is mentioned only a few times in the bible. And what most people know about her is simply that she's d mother of a certain 1st century hippie Jew called Jesus. How everyone then deduces that she must be the holiest person on earth is beyond me.

Think about it, it is funny to pick one "holy" woman out of thousands of women worldwide to enter this world through and then ascend her to heaven based on that alone!! Not fair for the other "holy" women of the time. cos then, it is either they are all in heaven too or no one else is or god himself/herself/itself isnt that "just" afterall.

Except the whole story is hodgepodge (which is my view by the way)

italo: @OP, we know that the mother of God is in heaven. If you think she's in hell, good for you.

How did you know?.
Besides on what basis did she get into heaven?,on the basis that she was the mother of Jesus,just asking.

chukwudi44: I actually meant macabees 15:12-16

12 He told them that he had seen a vision of Onias, the former High Priest, that great and wonderful man of humble and gentle disposition, who was an outstanding orator and who had been taught from childhood how to live a virtuous life. With outstretched arms Onias was praying for the entire Jewish nation.

13 Judas then saw an impressive white-haired man of great dignity and authority.

14 Onias said:

         This is God's prophet Jeremiah, who loves the Jewish people and offers many prayers for us and for Jerusalem, the holy city.

 15 Then Jeremiah stretched out his right hand and gave Judas a gold sword, saying as he did so,

16

         This holy sword is a gift from God. Take it and destroy your enemies.

 17 The eloquent words that Judas spoke encouraged everyone to be brave, and inspired boys to fight like men. Their city, their religion, and their Temple were in danger. So the Jews made up their minds not to waste any time, but to make a daring attack against the enemy and bravely decide their fate in hand-to-hand combat.

Maccabees is not part of the Biblical canon. The reason is obvious. The writer himself acknowledges that what he wrote was not inspired by God. He did not know if it was accurate or not.Hard to believe? Read 2 Maccabees 15:38-39
2 Maccabees 15:38-39 Good News Translation (GNT)
38 If it is well written and to the point, I am pleased; if it is poorly written and uninteresting, I have still done my best.39 We know it is unhealthy to drink wine or water alone, whereas wine mixed with water makes a delightfully tasty drink. So also a good story skillfully written gives pleasure to those who read it. With this I conclude.

k2039:
2 Maccabees 12:43-46
Judas, the ruler of Israel, took up a collection among all his soldiers, amounting to two thousand silver drachmas, which he sent to Jerusalem to provide for an expiatory sacrifice. In doing this he acted in a very excellent and noble way, inasmuch as he had the resurrection of the dead in view; for if he were not expecting the fallen to rise again, it would have been useless and foolish to pray for them in death. But if he did this with a view to the splendid reward that awaits those who had gone to rest in godliness, it was a holy and pious thought. Thus he made atonement for the dead that they might be freed from this sin.
Now I understand where the concept of purgatory is coming from and the concept of prayer for the dead.I will get back to you

The bolded sentence says it all,that was only an assumption on his own part(Judas).That is his own opinion that atonement should be made for the dead.He read his own doctrine into the matter.

k2039: Have read a lot on nairaland about Mary mother of Jesus and no disrespect on anybody.My question then "is there any where in the bible where it was written that Mary,mother of Jesus is in heaven or any evidence to ascertain that she is in heaven",so why all this fuss about mary mother of Lord Jesus being a saint.

She's in heaven because she was born again and she recieved the holygjost. She be ame a saint because she believed in Jesus. She is not more of asaint than any spirit filled christian,

Joagbaje:

She's in heaven because she was born again and she recieved the holygjost. She be ame a saint because she believed in Jesus. She is not more of asaint than any spirit filled christian,

and how do you know this?
Do you have evidence for this? or you just running on speculations and assumptions?

k2039:
42 Then he said, “Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom.”
43 Jesus answered him, “Truly I tell you, today you will be with me in paradise.”Luke 23:42-43
There is evidence to support the thief on the cross,[/b]Mary could be in heaven,thats an [b]assumption and that will be because she accepted Jesus as her LORD and saviour,any other reason aside from that I doubt if she is in heaven then.But I have never read of a particular part where it was written that Mary made it to heaven.

I like your humble response.

Firstly the thief did not go paradise that day or even now.

The exact quotation should be "Truly I tell you today , you will be with me in paradise.

Remember the original texts had no comma , the interpreter placed the comma in the wrong place.

Even if you say Jesus went to paradise that same day that will also be incorrect , because he had not ascended to his father.

Jesus said, "Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet returned to the Father. [/b]Go instead to my brothers and tell them, 'I am returning to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.'" -[b] John 20:17

All this story about Jesus descending into Hell is a red herring, he descended into the grave wrongly translated as Hell in the so called best bible KJV . Albiet the grave could not hold him for he had the power to lay down his life and pick it up again.

"No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down and authority to take it up again. This command I received from my Father." - John 10:18

John 2:19 Jesus answered them, "Destroy this temple, and I will raise it again in three days."


Jesus is the firstborn from the dead, no one has ascended to the father but Christ.

"And he is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything he might have the supremacy." - Colossians 1:18

Acts 26:23 that the Christ would suffer and, as the first to rise from the dead, would proclaim light to his own people and to the Gentiles."

"No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven--the Son of Man " - John 3:13

Now the core question , is Mary in heaven ?

I do not believe so , because the resurrection has not taken place YET ! She died a righteous woman and will be raised incorruptible into the kingdom of her God and saviour Christ Jesus.

By the way the catholic doctrine of the ASCENSION is a hoax , don't mind those people.


John 5:28 "Do not be amazed at this, for a time is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice , and come out--those who have done good will rise to live, and those who have done evil will rise to be condemned."

Some people say that those who are in the grave are also somewhere else in the form of a soul which is incorrect. When we die our spirits or the God given breath that produces life returns to God not some remote place in the underworld.

The dead are dead waiting for the resurrection.

Joagbaje:

She's in heaven because she was born again and she recieved the holygjost. She be ame a saint because she believed in Jesus. She is not more of asaint than any spirit filled christian,

In my opinion she is awaiting the resurrection of the righteous.

"Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt." - Daniel 12:2

frosbel:

I like your humble response.

Firstly the thief did not go paradise that day or even now.

The exact quotation should be "Truly I tell you today , you will be with me in paradise.

Remember the original texts had no comma , the interpreter placed the comma in the wrong place.

Even if you say Jesus went to paradise that same day that will also be incorrect , because he had not ascended to his father.

Jesus said, "Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet returned to the Father. [/b]Go instead to my brothers and tell them, 'I am returning to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.'" -[b] John 20:17

All this story about Jesus descending into Hell is a red herring, he descended into the grave wrongly translated as Hell in the so called best bible KJV . Albiet the grave could not hold him for he had the power to lay down his life and pick it up again.

"No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down and authority to take it up again. This command I received from my Father." - John 10:18

John 2:19 Jesus answered them, "Destroy this temple, and I will raise it again in three days."


Jesus is the firstborn from the dead, no one has ascended to the father but Christ.

"And he is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything he might have the supremacy." - Colossians 1:18

Acts 26:23 that the Christ would suffer and, as the first to rise from the dead, would proclaim light to his own people and to the Gentiles."

"No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven--the Son of Man " - John 3:13

Now the core question , is Mary in heaven ?

I do not believe so , because the resurrection has not taken place YET ! She died a righteous woman and will be raised incorruptible into the kingdom of her God and saviour Christ Jesus.

By the way the catholic doctrine of the ASCENSION is a hoax , don't mind those people.


John 5:28 "Do not be amazed at this, for a time is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice , and come out--those who have done good will rise to live, and those who have done evil will rise to be condemned."

Some people say that those who are in the grave are also somewhere else in the form of a soul which is incorrect. When we die our spirits or the God given breath that produces life returns to God not some remote place in the underworld.

The dead are dead waiting for the resurrection.

Perfect answer....I was about putting this up.....

Good job......:-)

chukwudi44: Yes there is.I personally asked her to pray for me to her son in heaven to be able to secure a job in 2008 and she did.

perhaps you could talk to her on behalf of all the victims of religious violence to please,please,please and please pray to her son in heaven to help them survive boko haram bombs and gunshots

Joagbaje:

She's in heaven because she was born again and she recieved the holygjost. She be ame a saint because she believed in Jesus. She is not more of asaint than any spirit filled christian,

bladderdash.

frosbel:

I like your humble response.

Firstly the thief did not go paradise that day or even now.

The exact quotation should be "Truly I tell you today , you will be with me in paradise.

Remember the original texts had no comma , the interpreter placed the comma in the wrong place.

Even if you say Jesus went to paradise that same day that will also be incorrect , because he had not ascended to his father.

Jesus said, "Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet returned to the Father. [/b]Go instead to my brothers and tell them, 'I am returning to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.'" -[b] John 20:17

All this story about Jesus descending into Hell is a red herring, he descended into the grave wrongly translated as Hell in the so called best bible KJV . Albiet the grave could not hold him for he had the power to lay down his life and pick it up again.

"No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down and authority to take it up again. This command I received from my Father." - John 10:18

John 2:19 Jesus answered them, "Destroy this temple, and I will raise it again in three days."


Jesus is the firstborn from the dead, no one has ascended to the father but Christ.

"And he is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything he might have the supremacy." - Colossians 1:18

Acts 26:23 that the Christ would suffer and, as the first to rise from the dead, would proclaim light to his own people and to the Gentiles."

"No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven--the Son of Man " - John 3:13

Now the core question , is Mary in heaven ?

I do not believe so , because the resurrection has not taken place YET ! She died a righteous woman and will be raised incorruptible into the kingdom of her God and saviour Christ Jesus.

By the way the catholic doctrine of the ASCENSION is a hoax , don't mind those people.


John 5:28 "Do not be amazed at this, for a time is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice , and come out--those who have done good will rise to live, and those who have done evil will rise to be condemned."

Some people say that those who are in the grave are also somewhere else in the form of a soul which is incorrect. When we die our spirits or the God given breath that produces life returns to God not some remote place in the underworld.

The dead are dead waiting for the resurrection.

Thanks for the correction on the puntuation,copied it from NKJV.
Your comment made absolute sense,so it will be unreasonable to pray to a dead person or beleive that a dead saint is interceding in heaven

Joagbaje:
She be ame a saint because she believed in Jesus. She is not more of asaint than any spirit filled christian,

As far as am concerned the bolded phrase will be her only justification for being a saint and not that she is the mother of Jesus,because a lot of catholics that I know lay emphasis on "she is the mother of Jesus".
Joagbaje,some folks need to here this "If Mary mother of Jesus is a saint as claimed by certain people then she is not more of a saint than any spirit filled christian"
So may they reduce all the hype on Mary.
For I determined to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ, and Him crucified 1 Corinthians 2:2.

No there isn't. The existence of this Heaven too is in question.

thehomer: No there isn't. The existence of this Heaven too is in question.

Jesus promised in John 14 that he would prepare a place for us. John 3:16 says that we have eternal life believing in christ so that is Gods promise and God cant lie! Numbers 23:19 God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?

k2039:
Jesus promised in John 14 that he would prepare a place for us. John 3:16 says that we have eternal life believing in christ so that is Gods promise and God cant lie! Numbers 23:19 God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?

But he could always send out a lying spirit. How do you know he hasn't done so in this case?

thehomer:

But he could always send out a lying spirit. How do you know he hasn't done so in this case?

My justification is based on the Holy Scripture.I already showed you a reference John 14.Although their are lot of references.Besides do you beleive in the bible.

k2039:
My justification is based on the Holy Scripture.I already showed you a reference John 14.Although their are lot of references.Besides do you beleive in the bible.

2 Chronicle 18:18 - 20 talks about God and the lying spirit. Use that as a reference in the Holy Scripture.

I know what is written in the Bible.

[/quote]Maccabees is not part of the Biblical canon. The reason is obvious. The writer himself acknowledges that what he wrote was not inspired by God. He did not know if it was[quote]

Ol boy who gave you the power to decide if a scripture is canon or not.FYI the book of macabees was canonised alongside other scriptures @ the synod of hippo and councils of carthage way back in the fourth century.

If I were to use this your analogy I might also conclude that the writings of st Paul are not scriptures since there are not prophetic messages but mere instructions written to differant church congregations

Maybe you don't know but the septuagint which was translated in 272 BCE by the 77 jewish scholars and which formed the greek OT was used by the apostles themselves.More than 70 percent of the old testament quotations in the new testament were sourced from the septuagint.So if even the apostles used the septuagint and regarded it as scripture who are you then to say it was not inspired.

Delafruita:
perhaps you could talk to her on behalf of all the victims of religious violence to please,please,please and please pray to her son in heaven to help them survive boko haram bombs and gunshots

Yes I will