Who is Natural Israel?

This may be the hardest section for some to swallow. Jesus stated something vitally important to the Jews of his day in their dialogue with Him found in the eighth chapter of John, verses 33-44 (please read the whole section).

Starting at verse 33, the Jews declared they were the seed of Abraham. Jesus responded by saying that He knew they were the (natural) seed of Abraham and then stated, "but ye seek to kill me, because my word has no place in you". He then adds why His word has no place with them, "I speak that which I have seen with my Father: and you do that which ye have seen with your father". Then, again, the Jews declared, "Abraham is our father". Jesus rebuked their false view of what it means to be a child of Abraham by stating, "IF ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham", and proceeds to state that Abraham would not seek to kill Him. In fact, he stated that Abraham rejoiced to see His (Christ's) day, (John 8:56). Jesus explained "IF" you were the children of Abraham, you would rejoice to see my day, henceforth, since you do not rejoice to see my day, you are NOT the Children of Abraham. In fact, Jesus concluded by telling the Jews that the true living God was not their Father and tells them who was. In verse 44 He declares, "Ye are of your father the devil, and the lust of your father ye will do".

The understanding of this passage sheds light on Christ's statement in Revelation 3:9, "Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie". Here Jesus identified the leading Jewish religious institution of the day and referred to it as the synagogue of Satan. He further stated that these people who claimed to be Jews (by birth), were not and that they were lying. Now go back to John 8:44 and you find the motivation for this lie!

Matthew Poole comments on this passage," ...the synagogue of Satan; so He calls all (natural) Jews that opposed Christianity...which say they are Jews and are not, but do lie. For he is not a Jew which is one outwardly, neither is circumcision that of the flesh, but he is a Jew who is one inwardly, &c., Rom. 2:28-29." 6

Dr. David Chilton, in his exhaustive commentary on Revelations writes, "...the apostate Jews are revealed in their true identity the synagogue of Satan. Again, there is no such thing as 'orthodox' Judaism; there is no such thing as a genuine belief in the Old Testament that is consistent with a rejection of Jesus Christ as Lord and God. Those who do not believe in Christ do not believe in the Old Testament either. The god of Judaism is the devil.... when Christ-rejecting Jews claim to follow in the footsteps of Abraham, Jesus says, they lie." 7

Who is True Israel?

Paul answers the above question in Romans 2:29, "But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but God"

Matthew Henry comments, "Assemblies that worship God in spirit and in truth, are the Israel of God" 8 Matthew Poole states." He is a right and true Jew, an Israelite indeed...that worships God in Spirit, rejoices in Christ Jesus...Such are the (true) circumcision and Jew. 9 A true Jew is one who has been circumcised in his heart, i.e. born-again, John 3:6, "that which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit."

In God's covenantal promise to Abram he asked God to give him a seed to be heir to his estate. God responded by not only promising Abram a child, but also adding "...look toward heaven, and count the stars, if thou be able to number them: and He (God) said unto him, so shall they seed be. And he (Abram) believed in the Lord; and He counted it to him for righteousness", 10

Paul, in the Epistle to the Galatians chapter three explains, "Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same ARE the children of Abraham." 11 He elaborates, "So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham." 12 Verse sixteen Paul continues, "Now to Abraham and his SEED were the promises (of the covenant) made." Verse twenty-six adds, "For ye are all the children of God by faith." The chapter ends with this statement, "There is neither Jew (natural) nor Greek (natural) there is neither bond nor free, their is neither male nor female: for ye are all one (not two) in Christ Jesus. And if ye be Christ's, then ARE ye Abraham's SEED, and heirs according to the promise (covenant)." i.e., the true children of Abraham.

Matthew Poole comments on this last passage, "Lest these Galatians should be discouraged, because the promise was made to Abraham and his seed, since they were not the seed (natural) of Abraham; Paul tells them, if they were Christ's, then they ARE the seed of Abraham, that seed to which the promise was made; and though they were not heirs of Abraham's according to the flesh, yet heirs according to the promise." 13 Needless to say, the third chapter of Galatians is pretty self explanatory, yet there are those who still want to insist that God has two separate people: Old Testament Israel and the Church.

Let us look at one more passage. Jesus provoked the chief priest and Pharisees, those who represented national Israel with this statement in Matthew twenty-one verse 43, "Therefore I say the Kingdom of God shall be taken from, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof."

David Chilton comments, "The (prophesied) destruction of apostate Israel and the Temple (Matt Twenty-four) reveal[s] that God had created a new nation, a new temple..." 14 Matthew Henry states, "The kingdom of God shall be taken from you. To the Jews had long pertained the adoption and glory, to them were committee the oracles of God, and the sacred trust of revealed religion, but now it shall be no longer. They were not only unfruitful in the use of their privileges, but, under pretenses of them, opposed the Gospel of Christ, and so [He] forfeited them." 15

Dr. Curtis Crenshaw, a former student of Dallas Seminary replies, "Who is this nation that was given the Kingdom of God? The answer is the church, which elsewhere is designated a nation 1 Peter 2:9." 16 John A. Broadus, the great Southern Baptist theologian of whom Broadman Press was the namesake states, "The Kingdom of God, the Messianic reign, with its privileges and benefits shall be taken from you. This was fulfilled [with the] destruction of Jerusalem and the Jewish State (70 A.D.), and in the fact that most Jews through their unbelief failed of the Messianic salvation and given to a nation shows distinctly that it was to be taken away not merely from the Jewish rulers, but from the Jewish people in general". 17

CONCLUSION

"Racial Israelites" who disobeyed God, by rejecting Christ, have had the light removed from them. They are not Jews in the true sense of the word. Whatever former blessing they may have had by natural descent has been given to the church. In other words, those who are "Jews" by race are not true Jews at all in God's eyes.

The Church of Jesus Christ (by no means does this imply a denomination) is/was and always shall be the Israel of God! This group consists of both believing natural Jews and Gentiles; both Old and New Testament saints.

The Church is Israel. This does not mean that the Church replaced Israel, nor does it mean that a natural Jew cannot be grafted back into the true Israel. They can, but only by bending a knee to the Lordship of Jesus Christ. God established Abraham and promised to bless his seed and all those who believe like Abraham. God reckons their faith as righteousness. They become children of the promise given to Abraham, the children of God.

The covenant carries with it a series of blessings and curses. Because dispensationalism does not acknowledge the covenant that God made with (true) Israel, the church is reaping the curses of the covenant found throughout the Word of God, (Hosea 4:6 cross reference with Deut 6:4). Let us understand that those who believe are Israel, then let us seek out God's Word concerning what He expects of a covenant people and obey with all our hearts, with all our souls and with all our strength. Then maybe we can find true revival and reformation again!

http://www.monergism.com/thethreshold/articles/onsite/notallisrael.html

OLAADEGBU: Shall we then wipe them out?

frosbel:

Wipe them out

If this is what you inferred from this article , maybe it is was not explained properly.

My point is that the TRUE ISRAEL of GOD is the CHURCH made up of both Gentile and Jew.

Present day physical ISRAEL is not a chosen nation , not at all.

To your question about wiping them out, only people filled with hate and bitterness would want to do that.

However Israel as a nation does not hesitate to use brute and mostly overwhelming force to wipe out thousands , many times this is in response to 1 or 2 rocket attacks by Hamas with no fatalities.

They also try to push America into many wars where millions are killed , women and children cut down and people tortured and dehumanised.

By the way , do you know that the so called chosen nation, the one we call Physical Israel , supported the apartheid regime of South Africa ?

"Blessed are the peacemakers, for they will be called sons of God " - Matthew 5:9

OLAADEGBU:

Hi frosbel. What 'am trying say is that 'Replacement Theology' is a false theology which a lot of Christians have swallowed hook, line and stinker. Read about all about it in the suggested link below:

http://www.deceptioninthechurch.com/replacement.html

frosbel:


The Church is ISRAEL not a replacement for ISRAEL.

Remember the bible says , that in ISAAC shall thy seed be called , this was fulfilled through Jesus Christ from the seed of ISRAEL (Jacob ) who had faith with God and found favour, his name was changed to ISRAEL.

In other words the Gentiles were grafted into the original tree which is the true ISRAEL of GOD of born again saints and they both became ONE. Both Jew and Gentile now from one and the same Tree.

There is this dual covenant theology that false prophets like Hagee preach , which says that God has a separate covenant with the Jews and another with the Gentiles, this is false, there is but ONE covenant through the Blood of Christ Jesus.

So I agree that the Church did not replace Israel , the church is ISRAEL and this is the promise that came through Isaac.

Present day ISRAEL is not a chosen nation, not while they are in unbelief and utterly reject the Messiah, they are not better that other unbelievers. To call them chosen is to like calling anti-Christs chosen, because John calls them anti-Christ and Jesus calls their father the devil and says that they belong to the synagogue of Satan, but you say they are chosen. Sorry the church made up of JEW and Gentile is Chosen.

Consider the following bible verses directed at the Jews :

"Who is the liar? It is the man who denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a man is the antichrist--he denies the Father and the Son." - 1 John 2:22

"You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father's desire. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies." - John 8:44

"I will make those who are of the synagogue of Satan, who claim to be Jews though they are not, but are liars--I will make them come and fall down at your feet and acknowledge that I have loved you." - Revelation 3:9

OLAADEGBU:

Martin Luther fell into the same error and thereby sowing the seed for the likes of Hitler to carry out the Holocaust. This kind of theology subtly gives 'the religion of peace' the boldness to want to push Israel into the sea. You don't want to be a party to those who kick against the goads, do you? Jesus Christ is definitely touching down at Mt. Olives, either the devils like it or not.

http://www.shema.com/Combating%20Replacement%20Theology/crt-004.php

frosbel:

Jesus Christ loves all Jews and there are countless Jews who are born again.

We are talking here about the physical nation of ISRAEL not being the real ISRAEL.

I do not allow sentiment to becloud my judgement, God's word stands firm on these matters.

Either you believe there is one covenant for the real ISRAEL , Jew and Gentile or you believe that Israel has a separate covenant and Jesus's death was not for them.

Zionism and ISLAM by the way are very similar in their approach to matters, an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth, persecution of Christians etc.

OLAADEGBU:

Yes. I mean the physical nation, called the Jewish State. There are at least 10 prophecies that were fulfilled in 1948 when they returned to their own land.

For instance, Ezekiel 34:13 predicted that they would go back to their land:

"And I will bring them out from the people, and gather them from the countries, and will bring them to their own land, and feed them upon the mountains of Israel by the rivers, and in all the inhabited places of the country"

frosbel:

Wrong !!

We are the ISRAEL of GOD.

You are misguided by John Darby , Schofield and Hal Lindsey.

Read the bible and not church doctrine , then you will come to the right conclusion.

OLAADEGBU:

Saying that 'am wrong and you are right doesn't cut it, where are the Scriptures that disproves the Word I quoted? There are other prophecies in the Bible to this effect all you need to do is to read and study them and let the author of the Bible speak to you.

Here is another one:

"And I will bring again the captivity of my people of Israel, and they shall build the waste cities, and inhabit them; and they shall plant vineyards, and drink the wine thereof; they shall also make gardens, and eat the fruit of them. And I will plant them upon their land, and they shall no more be pulled up out of their land which I have given them, saith the LORD thy God" (Amos 9:14-15).

Here, God is saying that Jacob's descendants would regain control of the land of Israel, and this came to pass in 1948.

frosbel:

So physical nation ISRAEL is still in covenant relationship with Yahweh , right ?

I mean the promise of the saviour was through Abraham , yet Israel as a nation rejects him, John called anyone who reject Christs anti-Christ , and my brother calls them Chosen. I am not sure if we should use human logic or biblical fact.

Regarding Israel returning to their land, this is in reference to the ISRAEL of GOD and not an the ethnic nation called ISRAEL. This heaven and earth will be destroyed, a new one recreated , same location . The new Jerusalem will descend from heaven prepared for the bride of Christ which is the church or the ISRAEL of GOD.

Yes, it is this ISRAEL that will never be pulled out of the land ever again.

And it is quite strange that we are quite happy to call ISLAM anti-Christ because they reject the messiah of Christ, yet we call Jews chosen because of ethnicity even though they reject Christ.

Remember God is not a respecter of persons, and race does not cut it with Him.

I really think we need to read our bibles more carefully.

37:14 my spirit in you. The first part of this “dry-bones” prophesy (Ezekiel 37:8 ) was evidently fulfilled with the worldwide return of Jews to Israel and the official recognition of the nation in 1948. The true regeneration of the nation (Romans 11:26), however, when the Holy Spirit will be in them, awaits their acceptance of Christ when He returns (Zechariah 12:10)

Goshen360: @ my brothers - Ola and frosbel,

This is a sensitive issue just like tithe and many other issues in the body of Christ. However, what I know is that, many men of God have come to idolize the natural or physical Israel. I have nothing absolutely against the natural Israel because the saved ones are part of the true Israel, the church. What I don't see from the scripture is men of God collecting money from Christians all over the T.V for natural Israel. Sure the unsaved in natural Israel needs the gospel but I am yet to see any scripture that says offerings should be collected from spiritual Israel, the church and give to the natural or physical Israel. The scriptural verse used by these men of God esp. here in the USA is, where God told Abraham I will bless them that bless you and curse them that curse you. ~Please correct me if am wrong~

Goshen360: @ my brothers - Ola and frosbel,

This is a sensitive issue just like tithe and many other issues in the body of Christ. However, what I know is that, many men of God have come to idolize the natural or physical Israel. I have nothing absolutely against the natural Israel because the saved ones are part of the true Israel, the church. What I don't see from the scripture is men of God collecting money from Christians all over the T.V for natural Israel. Sure the unsaved in natural Israel needs the gospel but I am yet to see any scripture that says offerings should be collected from spiritual Israel, the church and give to the natural or physical Israel. The scriptural verse used by these men of God esp. here in the USA is, where God told Abraham I will bless them that bless you and curse them that curse you. ~Please correct me if am wrong~

SNCOQ3: @ frosbel, "Replacement Theology" is an heresy. You will do well to study this:
http://www.tedmontgomery.com/bblovrvw/Endtimes/EphraimJudah.html

I am too tired to search Hal Lindsey's Video Archive for a better treatment on the subject.

I also think you have a shallow or no understanding concerning the Jewish struggle throughout the ages and the significance of their political travail as a prophetic marker for this last days....Be careful.

SNCOQ3: @ frosbel, "Replacement Theology" is an heresy. You will do well to study this:
http://www.tedmontgomery.com/bblovrvw/Endtimes/EphraimJudah.html

I am too tired to search Hal Lindsey's Video Archive for a better treatment on the subject.

I also think you have a shallow or no understanding concerning the Jewish struggle throughout the ages and the significance of their political travail as a prophetic marker for this last days....Be careful.

SNCOQ3: ^ Thanks for that link; Just read and bookmarked it- very clear and straight to the point.

@frosbel, Our responsibility towards Isreal is to pray for the peace of Jerusalem not to join the "international community" to villify Isreal. First, it was that ridiculous "Oneness" doctrine now its "Replacement Theology"...Brother, be careful how you tread.

BTW, Hal Lindsey never claimed to be a prophet; He's interpretation of the bible is sound and 'bulletproof' solid. The fact that he made a mistake in one of his predictions- which he admitted and apologized for doesn't make him a false prophet.

For those interested in Hal Lindsey's take on "Replacement Theology" and the Jewish/Palestinian question, here is it:
PART I:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=tRQlwN8cbYI


PART II:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=tRQlwN8cbYI

tiarabubu: Dear brothers frosbel and Ola

This topic is God sent. I have been poundering on this for some time. I hope we trash it out. Thanks.

OLAADEGBU:

Yes. I mean the physical nation, called the Jewish State. There are at least 10 prophecies that were fulfilled in 1948 when they returned to their own land.

For instance, Ezekiel 34:13 predicted that they would go back to their land:

"And I will bring them out from the people, and gather them from the countries, and will bring them to their own land, and feed them upon the mountains of Israel by the rivers, and in all the inhabited places of the country"

Joagbaje: @frosbel

The principles of God don't change. Israel in their baclkisdeen state was always still beloved and precious in Gods sight. Even nations who God has used to punished them still get punished for punishing Israel . That tells us the much love God has for that nation. He is not about to change his mind. Gods choice for Israel is everlasting covenant.

Romans 11:28-29
As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers 'sakes. 29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.

The blindness of Israeal was of God. It was not their fault to reject messiah , it was God that did it to discipline them.