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Re: Do Animals Think?? by Nobody: 10:41pm On Sep 26, 2012
It depends on the level of thinking. I believe animals can process information mainly based on instinct. In that regards I would say they don't think but can process and repeat what they have been trained to do. So, animals don't think, they act based on instincts.

Online definition of think is the belief(which animals can not do other than humans) , opinion and idea on something or somebody, generally. It means there has to be reason to understand what a particular idea or opinion(we know that animals don't have opinions) is about and find a way to accept it. It is an act where the things which differentiate humans from the animals are really intertwined, like spirituality(in general sense), ability to read and write,share ideas about something,etc. Thinking really helps in those areas and it is an ability which animals lack.

ANIMALS DON'T THINK!
Re: Do Animals Think?? by bid4rich(m): 11:12pm On Sep 26, 2012
My take; animals think but their thinking faculty varies. For example, can you compare the thinking pattern of a animal called 'eediots' with cat or stupentious inteted 'Ostritch' with eagle? Their thinking faculty is far from each other as east is far from the west but that doesnt mean they are not thinking.

Remember they are flesh and blood too
Re: Do Animals Think?? by Dsage1: 11:26pm On Sep 26, 2012
all4naija: It depends on the level of thinking. I believe animals can process information mainly based on instinct. In that regards I would say they don't think but can process and repeat what they have been trained to do. So, animals don't think, they act based on instincts.

Online definition of think is the belief(which animals can not do other than humans) , opinion and idea on something or somebody, generally. It means there has to be reason to understand what a particular idea or opinion(we know that animals don't have opinions) is about and find a way to accept it. It is an act where the things which differentiate humans from the animals are really intertwined, like spirituality(in general sense), ability to read and write,share ideas about something,etc. Thinking really helps in those areas and it is an ability which animals lack.

ANIMALS DON'T THINK!

I wonder how/why you just jump into conclusion that something with brains like you cannot think.

What about animals that were not trained the way they behaved?

How do you know that animals can't read or write in their own language or spirituals,since you are not a member?

If you think animals are not capable of sharing ideas, then you need to learn more about "Bees, Lions, Termites, Vultures etc".

The fact that humans are most intelligent animals does not mean that other animals cannot think.

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Re: Do Animals Think?? by ciphoenix: 11:39pm On Sep 26, 2012
all4naija: It depends on the level of thinking. I believe animals can process information mainly based on instinct. In that regards I would say they don't think but can process and repeat what they have been trained to do. So, animals don't think, they act based on instincts.

Online definition of think is the belief(which animals can not do other than humans) , opinion and idea on something or somebody, generally. It means there has to be reason to understand what a particular idea or opinion(we know that animals don't have opinions) is about and find a way to accept it. It is an act where the things which differentiate humans from the animals are really intertwined, like spirituality(in general sense), ability to read and write,share ideas about something,etc. Thinking really helps in those areas and it is an ability which animals lack.

ANIMALS DON'T THINK!
so learning is now by instinct, baa?
Re: Do Animals Think?? by ciphoenix: 11:41pm On Sep 26, 2012
Just wondering. Those animals that can recognize themselves in the mirror, how come they know its them and not some other animal?

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Re: Do Animals Think?? by safarigirl(f): 12:28am On Sep 27, 2012
Animals act, dance, clap, do gymnastics, certainly all this is not done through mere instincts. They are trained just like humans, they're like babies that never talk, they store whatever they learn in some brain cells. How do dogs know the owner of a house from an intruder? Some dogs may not even eat a certain type of food, they know cos they've learnt. But like someone pointed out, they can't think out of the box
Re: Do Animals Think?? by masterpiecer(m): 6:35am On Sep 27, 2012
all4naija: It depends on the level of thinking. I believe animals can process information mainly based on instinct. In that regards I would say they don't think but can process and repeat what they have been trained to do. So, animals don't think, they act based on instincts.

Online definition of think is the belief(which animals can not do other than humans) , opinion and idea on something or somebody, generally. It means there has to be reason to understand what a particular idea or opinion(we know that animals don't have opinions) is about and find a way to accept it. It is an act where the things which differentiate humans from the animals are really intertwined, like spirituality(in general sense), ability to read and write,share ideas about something,etc. Thinking really helps in those areas and it is an ability which animals lack.

ANIMALS DON'T THINK!

The problem with this debate is that most of us are comparing the thinking faculty of animals with humans, no, they are not the same or close at all, but because the thinking faculty of animals is not as complex as human's, dosen't mean animals don't think.

Now let me ask u this;
Wouldn't the act of a todler who can read just A B C, and an adult who can read an encyclopeadia be termed as 'reading'?, of cause yes, they both can read, but because the adult's brain is more develope than the child, he can read better than the todler, but that dose not imply that the todler cannot read rather the todler's ability to read is not as enhanced as the adult's. Same thing applies to the thinking faculty of animals and humans.

Animals think, but not in a complex form like humans.

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Re: Do Animals Think?? by Emary(f): 7:50am On Sep 27, 2012
Animals teach their offspring how to hunt, gather food, respect their group hierarchy and communicate. Doesn't that require thinking?

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Re: Do Animals Think?? by Tropilo(m): 8:05am On Sep 27, 2012
Any living thing with brains can think. Living things such as plants and insects, snails etc are instintive.
However, the only thing that differentiates human thinking with that of lower animals is "reasoning" and ability to decipher.
Reasoning or/and conscience is the element that seperates us and even varies from one man to another.
Re: Do Animals Think?? by Nobody: 8:25am On Sep 27, 2012
ANIMALS THINK, My own personal experience, i grew up with pet cats.
We once had a cat that steals meat from your plate whenever NEPA takes the light, my brother used cane to train the cat, after that, if you put your food on the ground in front of the cat and leave the room and return - your food will stay intact. Well, i guess that is thinking.

Also, the issue of speech. I happened to have studied various cats incidentally and have picked some of their languages - at least, i know now to tell a cat in their language that i am a friend- and thereafter i can touch and even pick up the cat without being harmed - i have done this countless of times.
And yet, there are times when some cats - for reasons unknown to me will refuse to listen, yowl and vanish.

Some wild cats will stop, look at me for awhile, and silently stalk off - guess i have not studied wild cats language.

Well, I am an animal and i do think. . . . .or so i presume

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Re: Do Animals Think?? by Nobody: 8:27am On Sep 27, 2012
Can animals really think? Can they make decisions based on information? For years, scientists have debated these questions. Now, many of them believe that some animals have the brain power to understand new situations, make decisions, and plan ahead. The following are just a few of the many examples of animal intelligence that scientists have observed.

A hungry chimpanzee walking through his native rain forest comes upon a large Panda oleosa nut lying on the ground under one of the widely scattered Panda trees. He knows that these nuts are much too hard to open with his hands or teeth and that although he can use pieces of wood or relatively soft rocks to batter open the more abundant Coula edulis nuts, these tough Panda nuts can only be cracked by pounding them with a very hard piece of rock. Very few stones are available in the rain forest, but he walks 80 meters straight to another tree where several days ago he had cracked open a Panda nut with a large chunk of granite. He carries this rock back to the nut he has just found, places it in a crotch between two buttress roots, and cracks it open with a few well-aimed blows.

In a city park in Japan, a hungry green-backed heron picks up a twig, breaks it into small pieces, and carries one of these to the edge of a pond, where she drops it into the water. At first it drifts away, but she picks it up and brings it back. She watches the floating twig intently until small minnows swim up to it, and she then seizes one by a rapid thrusting grab with her long, sharp bill. Another green-backed heron from the same colony carries bits of material to a branch extending out over the pond and tosses the bait into the water below. When minnows approach this bait, he flies down and seizes one on the wing.

Many animals adapt their behavior to the challenges they face either under natural conditions or in laboratory experiments. For example, in other parts of Africa chimpanzees select suitable branches from which they break off twigs to produce a slender probe, which they carry some distance to poke it into a termite nest and eat the termites clinging to it as it is withdrawn. Apes have also learned to use artificial communication systems to ask for objects and activities they want and to answer simple questions about pictures of familiar things. Vervet monkeys employ different alarm calls to inform their companions about particular types of predator.

Such ingenuity is not limited to primates. Lionesses sometimes cooperate in surrounding prey or drive prey toward a companion waiting in a concealed position. They are also very ingenious at plugging water leaks, sometimes cutting pieces of wood to fit a particular hole through which water is escaping. Under natural conditions, in late winter some beavers cut holes in the dams they have previously constructed, causing the water level to drop, which allows them to swim about under the ice without holding their breath.

Nor is appropriate adaptation of complex behavior to changing circumstances a mammalian monopoly. Bowerbirds construct and decorate bowers that help them attract females for mating. Plovers carry out injury-simulating distraction displays that lead predators away from their eggs or young, and they adjust these displays according to the intruder's behavior.

At the University of Arizona, a gray parrot named Alex surprised his trainer, Irene Pepperberg. She has been working with Alex for 15 years, teaching him to talk, name and count objects, and answer simple questions about them. He is very good at these tasks. He even says, "I'm sorry" when he makes a mistake answering a question. But what Alex once did outside of the laboratory was even more impressive. When he had to go to the veterinarian's office for lung surgery, he became upset. As Pepperberg started to leave, Alex said, "Come here. I love you. I'm sorry. I want to go back." Alex thought he was being punished for doing something wrong. He seemed able to use language to express his thoughts.

Certain insects, specifically the honeybees, employ symbolic gestures to communicate the direction and distance their sisters must fly to reach food or other things that are important to the colony.

These are only a few of the more striking examples of versatile behavior on the animals Although these are not routine everyday occurrences, the fact that animals are capable of such versatility has led to a subtle shift on the part of some scientists concerned with animal behavior. Rather than insisting that animals do not think at all, many scientists now believe that they sometimes experience at least simple thoughts, although these thoughts are probably different from any of ours
Source: studyenglishtoday.net/can_animals_think.html

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Re: Do Animals Think?? by ciphoenix: 8:44am On Sep 27, 2012
all4naija: It depends on the level of thinking. I believe animals can process information mainly based on instinct. In that regards I would say they don't think but can process and repeat what they have been trained to do. So, animals don't think, they act based on instincts.

Online definition of think is the belief(which animals can not do other than humans) , opinion and idea on something or somebody, generally. It means there has to be reason to understand what a particular idea or opinion(we know that animals don't have opinions) is about and find a way to accept it. It is an act where the things which differentiate humans from the animals are really intertwined, like spirituality(in general sense), ability to read and write,share ideas about something,etc. Thinking really helps in those areas and it is an ability which animals lack.

ANIMALS DON'T THINK!
can you give a sharp contrast between a baby and an intelligent animal, in terms of observable traits?
Re: Do Animals Think?? by ciphoenix: 8:45am On Sep 27, 2012
Re: Do Animals Think?? by mcsnup: 8:52am On Sep 27, 2012
Of course they gat brain and they make a good use of it...what's your defination for instinct?
Re: Do Animals Think?? by Nobody: 8:54am On Sep 27, 2012
Animals think! End. Of story.
Re: Do Animals Think?? by Gaqua77(f): 9:04am On Sep 27, 2012
Yes off-course, they can think too...... we can make it out by the trained pet's activities & their response to the trainers commands.
Re: Do Animals Think?? by ciphoenix: 9:07am On Sep 27, 2012
mcsnup: Of course they gat brain and they make a good use of it...what's your defination for instinct?
www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/instinct:
Involuntary response by an animal, resulting in a predictable and relatively fixed behaviour pattern. Instinctive behaviour is an inherited mechanism that serves to promote the survival of an animal or species. It is most apparent in fighting and sexual activity. The simplest form is the reflex . All animals have instinct, but, in general, the higher the animal form, the more flexible the behaviour. Among mammals, learned behaviour often prevails over instinctive behaviour.
Re: Do Animals Think?? by ritochi: 9:39am On Sep 27, 2012
Orikinla: [size=18pt]All living creatures that bear and rear their offspring think.
In fact I have seen better parenting among sheep in Lagos than in many Nigerian parents.[/size]
.
Lol,nairalanders will not kill me o!
Re: Do Animals Think?? by Nobody: 10:52am On Sep 27, 2012
ciphoenix: so learning is now by instinct, baa?
Instincts is a natural way or behavior of thinking or doing things. Though it has to do with human instinct when its thinking but animals don't have that ability for sure. Learning in animals doesn't require thinking, it is just a pattern in their behavior, that is why some animals are better learner than others. To process information is different from thinking. The reason why computer can not think is just a good example of that.
Re: Do Animals Think?? by ciphoenix: 10:55am On Sep 27, 2012
all4naija: Instincts is a natural way or behavior of thinking or doing things. Though it has to do with human instinct when its thinking but animals don't have that ability for sure. Learning in animals doesn't require thinking, it is just a pattern in their behavior, that is why some animals are better learner than others. To process information is different from thinking. The reason why computer can not think is just a good example of that.
and a classic definition of thinking would be...............
Re: Do Animals Think?? by Nobody: 10:56am On Sep 27, 2012
safarigirl: Animals act, dance, clap, do gymnastics, certainly all this is not done through mere instincts. They are trained just like humans, they're like babies that never talk, they store whatever they learn in some brain cells. How do dogs know the owner of a house from an intruder? Some dogs may not even eat a certain type of food, they know cos they've learnt. But like someone pointed out, they can't think out of the box
You just defined instincts. If you think that is thinking you just need to allow the animal to give an explanation for its action(that is where thinking comes in).Would you say computer can think because it can do those things you just mentioned?
Re: Do Animals Think?? by Nobody: 11:04am On Sep 27, 2012
ciphoenix: and a classic definition of thinking would be...............
I defined thinking in my previous comment though. It is the ability to have a particular opinion, belief or idea about something or somebody but there has to be explanations to form judgement based on process of accessing logic.

Really, animals don't think. It has be addressed by scientists before on what passes for thinking.
Re: Do Animals Think?? by Nobody: 11:07am On Sep 27, 2012
ciphoenix: can you give a sharp contrast between a baby and an intelligent animal, in terms of observable traits?
You just like argument. Hahaha... we all know even baby can not see at birth and therefore that is a good example of many dormant abilities and senses in babies.
Re: Do Animals Think?? by Dsage1: 1:01pm On Sep 27, 2012
all4naija: Instincts is a natural way or behavior of thinking or doing things. Though it has to do with human instinct when its thinking but animals don't have that ability for sure. Learning in animals doesn't require thinking, it is just a pattern in their behavior, that is why some animals are better learner than others. To process information is different from thinking. The reason why computer can not think is just a good example of that.

Stop being cognitive bias please, instinctive or perception is not possible without any imaginative tendency.

If animals doesn't think, then why the animals like bees,termites,sheep,lions etc are able to organizing and coordinating their immediate surroundings? Why did they stored food for future purpose? Why did they defend their territories against external attack?

There's no correlation between computer(non living thing) and animals(living thing). Unlike animals,computer is solely operating by humans and not by itself.
Re: Do Animals Think?? by Nobody: 1:16pm On Sep 27, 2012
D sage:

Stop being cognitive bias please, instinctive or perception is not possible without any imaginative tendency.

If animals doesn't think, then why the animals like bees,termites,sheep,lions etc are able to organizing and coordinating their immediate surroundings? Why did they stored food for future purpose? Why did they defend their territories against external attack?

There's no correlation between computer(non living thing) and animals(living thing). Unlike animals,computer is solely operating by humans and not by itself.
You keep repeating the same thing. It is sad you are not learning anything here. You just like argument for argument sake.

Didn't the organizing and co-ordination in the bee,sheep, lions,etc seem like something in their make up to you? That is part of their instincts. But, in humans they are thought out. We even learn from nature and translate what we've learnt into something else and useful. There is explanation for that,that is thinking, to judge based on opinions,beliefs and ideas. You see there is no way animals can thought out logical process. If instances in nature animals carry out complicated processes don't mean they are through thinking but through their instinctive nature(it is their natural way not thinking - logical process of opinions,etc are meant for humans only).

The only different here why computers look separated from animals is the responding to stimuli.That is natural(instincts). So, my illustration with computer was on the processing of information yet you are taking it out of the context. However,I can see you don't quite understand what instincts means in the first place.
Re: Do Animals Think?? by Nobody: 1:26pm On Sep 27, 2012
masterpiecer:

The problem with this debate is that most of us are comparing the thinking faculty of animals with humans, no, they are not the same or close at all, but because the thinking faculty of animals is not as complex as human's, dosen't mean animals don't think.

Now let me ask u this;
Wouldn't the act of a todler who can read just A B C, and an adult who can read an encyclopeadia be termed as 'reading'?, of cause yes, they both can read, but because the adult's brain is more develope than the child, he can read better than the todler, but that dose not imply that the todler cannot read rather the todler's ability to read is not as enhanced as the adult's. Same thing applies to the thinking faculty of animals and humans.

Animals think, but not in a complex form like humans.
No! The question should be, do you THINK(what thinking means to you) what animals do are qualified to pass for thinking?
Re: Do Animals Think?? by ciphoenix: 1:28pm On Sep 27, 2012
all4naija: You just like argument. Hahaha... we all know even baby can not see at birth and therefore that is a good example of many dormant abilities and senses in babies.
cheesy convinced. It's still kinda controversial among researchers tho.
Re: Do Animals Think?? by Dsage1: 1:36pm On Sep 27, 2012
all4naija: You keep repeating the same thing. It is sad you are not learning anything here. You just like argument for argument sake.

Didn't the organizing and co-ordination in the bee,sheep, lions,etc seem like something in their make up to you? That is part of their instincts. But, in humans they are thought out. We even learn from nature and translate what we've learnt into something else and useful. There is explanation for that,that is thinking, to judge based on opinions,beliefs and ideas. You see there is no way animals can thought out logical process. If instances in nature animals carry out complicated processes don't mean they are through thinking but through their instinctive nature(it is their natural way not thinking - logic process of opinions,etc are meant for humans only).

The only different here why computers look separated from animals is the responding to stimuli.That is natural(instincts). So, my illustration with computer was on the processing of information yet you are taking it out of the context. However,I can see you don't quite understand what instincts means in the first place.

Your inability to provide reasonable answers to my previous post,resulted to repetition.

Is it by instincts or thinking that animals thought of storing foods for future purpose?

If you fail to answer this,I will never quote your posts again on this forum.
Re: Do Animals Think?? by ciphoenix: 1:37pm On Sep 27, 2012
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Instinct:
Any behavior is instinctive if it is performed without being based upon prior experience (that is, in the absence of learning ), and is therefore an expression of innate biological factors. Sea turtles , newly hatched on a beach, will automatically move toward the ocean. A joey climbs into its mother's pouch upon being born. Honeybees communicate by dancing in the direction of a food source without formal instruction.Other examples include animal fighting, animal courtship behavior, internal escape functions, and the building of nests . All of these are examples of complex behaviors and are thus substantially different from simple reflex behaviors.
An instinct should be distinguished from a reflex, whichis a simple response of an organism to a specific stimulus, such as the contraction of the pupil in response to bright light or the spasmodic movement of the lower leg when the knee is tapped. Instincts, in contrast, are inborn complex patterns of behavior that must exist in every member of the species and that cannot be overcome by force of will. However, the absence of volitional capacity must not be confused with an inability to modify fixed action patterns. For example, people may be able to modify a stimulated fixed action pattern by consciously recognizing the point of its activation and simply stop doing it, whereas animals without a sufficiently strong volitional capacity may not be able to disengage from their fixed action patterns, once activated.
Commonly cited examples of presumed instincts in humans arethe "maternal instinct" and the"survival instinct". These exampleshowever do not conform to the scientific definition of instinct. Many human females do not desire children and furthermore some mothers kill their own children. Similarly, many humans contradict their own survival through suicide.
The role of instincts in determining the behavior of animals varies from species to species. The more complex the neural system of an animal, the greater is the role of the cerebral cortex, and social learning and instincts play a lesser role. A comparison between a crocodile and an elephant illustrates how mammals for example are heavily dependent on social learning. Lionesses and chimpanzees raised in zoos away from their birth mothers most often reject their own offspring because they have not been taught the skills of mothering. Such is not the case with simpler species such as reptiles.
Re: Do Animals Think?? by Nobody: 1:40pm On Sep 27, 2012
D sage:

Your inability to provide reasonable answers to my previous post,resulted to repetition.

Is it by instincts or thinking that animals thought of storing foods for future purpose?

If you fail to answer this,I will never quote your posts again on this forum.
I can only laugh at the line in bold. grin grin grin. Ants do that based on instincts!That is a good example for you.
Re: Do Animals Think?? by Nobody: 1:44pm On Sep 27, 2012
ciphoenix: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Instinct:
Any behavior is instinctive if it is performed without being based upon prior experience (that is, in the absence of learning ), and is therefore an expression of innate biological factors. Sea turtles , newly hatched on a beach, will automatically move toward the ocean. A joey climbs into its mother's pouch upon being born. Honeybees communicate by dancing in the direction of a food source without formal instruction.Other examples include animal fighting, animal courtship behavior, internal escape functions, and the building of nests . All of these are examples of complex behaviors and are thus substantially different from simple reflex behaviors.
An instinct should be distinguished from a reflex, whichis a simple response of an organism to a specific stimulus, such as the contraction of the pupil in response to bright light or the spasmodic movement of the lower leg when the knee is tapped. Instincts, in contrast, are inborn complex patterns of behavior that must exist in every member of the species and that cannot be overcome by force of will. However, the absence of volitional capacity must not be confused with an inability to modify fixed action patterns. For example, people may be able to modify a stimulated fixed action pattern by consciously recognizing the point of its activation and simply stop doing it, whereas animals without a sufficiently strong volitional capacity may not be able to disengage from their fixed action patterns, once activated.
Commonly cited examples of presumed instincts in humans arethe "maternal instinct" and the"survival instinct". These exampleshowever do not conform to the scientific definition of instinct. Many human females do not desire children and furthermore some mothers kill their own children. Similarly, many humans contradict their own survival through suicide.
The role of instincts in determining the behavior of animals varies from species to species. The more complex the neural system of an animal, the greater is the role of the cerebral cortex, and social learning and instincts play a lesser role. A comparison between a crocodile and an elephant illustrates how mammals for example are heavily dependent on social learning. Lionesses and chimpanzees raised in zoos away from their birth mothers most often reject their own offspring because they have not been taught the skills of mothering. Such is not the case with simpler species such as reptiles.
That's a good one. Now,do you think animals think by looking at this definition?
Re: Do Animals Think?? by ciphoenix: 1:48pm On Sep 27, 2012
all4naija: That's a good one. Now,do you think animals think by looking at this definition?
it says behavior is instinct in the absence of previous learning. Am i missing something here?

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