frosbel: He went to the presence of the Father, . . .

John 20:17
Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

jayriginal:

Nna, na wa oh.

You've confused me. What did Jesus mean when he "said" to Mary

frosbel:

A good question.

I admit that this is not 100% clear to me at this moment. Allow me time to do some bible research.


However , the fact remains that there is no bible verse to suggest that Christ descended spiritually into the grave.

Facts are :

1. He committed his spirit to the father

2. His body was buried.

I will come back to the valid point you mentioned.

thanks,

Delafruita: first,those werent the words of jesus.infact the werent the words of peter.rather they were the words of sylvanus who wrote the epistles of peter.

mkmyers45: care to explain more?

frosbel:

A good question.

I admit that this is not 100% clear to me at this moment. Allow me time to do some bible research.


However , the fact remains that there is no bible verse to suggest that Christ descended spiritually into the grave.

Facts are :

1. He committed his spirit to the father

2. His body was buried.

I will come back to the valid point you mentioned.

thanks,

chukwudi44: Dogmatic goons even in an explicitly stated verse they are still trying to twist it to suit their whims.Frosbel oga copy and paste na waa.

I guess you are trying to google another write up to copy and paste.You really lack originality and intellectual depth

[/quote]11. frosbel(m): Quote Post

chukwudi44: Dogmatic goons even in an explicitly stated verse they are still trying to twist it to suit their whims.Frosbel oga copy and paste na waa.

I guess you are trying to google another write up to copy and paste.You really lack originality and intellectual depth

By the way are you BORN AGAIN of the Spirit of GOD ?[quote]

Enigma: The phrase "he descended into hell" is most widely known from the "Apostles' Creed".

As modern translations of the Creed now shows, what is meant is in fact simply that "he descended to the dead".

In another manner, Christians seen as orthodox (i.e. non-heretical) can still say Jesus suffered "hell" in His agonies on the Cross.

However all of these is totally different from the Word of Faith heresy that Jesus went to "hell" where he was tortured by the satan and demons for three days.

chukwudi44: I think I will go with enigma's explanation.He actually descended into the prison of the dead which I believe to be purgatory.The people involved are actually dead.

frosbel:

Mate , there is no such thing as purgatory , this place is a figment and your imagination .

It's the lake of fire or Paradise, no in-betweens.

frosbel:


Nobody is twisting my friend.

The truth is that Jesus Christ did not descend spiritually into Hell as that will contradict scripture.

On this point anyway, no one has the absolute truth and it is does not affect our salvation.

By the way are you BORN AGAIN of the Spirit of GOD ?

mkmyers45:

and he says there is and has proof to satisfy himself so?

frosbel:

and where is the proof ?

belabela: Frosbel,

I like your thinking but let me share with you what I found out in the bible and contrast it with what is popular today in Christendom.

Heaven is the place where God lives. It is above the sky. The old English bibles use this word interchangeable to mean the sky or the outer space or the dwelling place of God.

When people die they do not go to heaven as popularly thought in many Christian assemblies today rather they go to the underworld (or the place of the dead). Jesus himself explained that this place is divided largely into two parts. Hell and paradise. Paradise is a place of rest, comfort and peace while hell is a place of torment. You will notice that when the thief was about to die Jesus did not promise to take him to heaven rather he promised that he would meet him in paradise.

In the bible Enoch and Elijah were taken up to heaven and theologians argue Moses too must have been taken up. Whatever the case those who had gone to heaven had gone with their bodies and not just spirit. Jesus himself had to be raised to go back to heaven.

Did Jesus go to hell? The bible never said that and I would say NO. Did he go to paradise? YES he did. Everyone would either go to paradise or hell when they die. That is a fact consistent in scriptures.

Heaven (the abode of God)would remain but the bible says at the end of time God would descend to the earth and live amongst men. This may not be popular but it's exactly what the bible says

truthislight:

this is because you still have not sorted out compelely what holy spirit is and what spirit creatures are.

While the holy spirit is God power and is use by God to do all he has to do, eg bringing Adam to life(the kick starter) sustain by breath.
)

There are also spirit creature(invisible person without materia body) 1cor 15:40

the hand and legs of spirit creatures are the power God allocate to them and they can use it for whatever purpose they so wish.

Satan uses the power God allocated to him to oppose God and uses it to influence humans to do what is wrong like in Ephesians 2:2,3.

While God use his holy spirit(his power) to help human do what is good like in producing the fruitage of the spirit Galatians 5:22

the holy spirit is the most powerful force in the univers.

Being call holy signify that it is almighty God's because God is holy.

The holy spirit is God's power and does not have a mind of it's own just like your muscle or power does not have a mind of it own.

the power of God that kept Jesus alive is what he let out, and it belong to God and as such goes back to God, any hope of life again completely rest on God.



The psamist so says that God will not let him see corruption.

He was in hell/grave for three days.

Enigma: The phrase "he descended into hell" is most widely known from the "Apostles' Creed".

As modern translations of the Creed now shows, what is meant is in fact simply that "he descended to the dead".

In another manner, Christians seen as orthodox (i.e. non-heretical) can still say Jesus suffered "hell" in His agonies on the Cross.

Didn’t Jesus preach to the spirits in prison?


Text in question: 1 Peter 3:19

“...by whom also He went and preached to the spirits in prison.”

Proof texts: 1 Peter 3:18–20

Many churches today routinely recite the Apostle’s Creed as part of their worship services. This is a standard recitation of fundamental beliefs supposedly carried down from the apostolic days. The most controversial line of the Creed, which is considered optional or flatly omitted by some of the churches that recite it, is a line that reads, “He descended into hell,” referring to Jesus in between the time of the cross and the resurrection. It is this idea—that Christ preached the gospel to the souls of the dead who are in hell—that is most commonly associated with the text in question, 1 Peter 3:19. Using this view, the spirits are immortal, disembodied souls of deceased people and the prison is eternal hellfire.

Strangely, this is not the only interpretation given to this text. Some churches teach that human beings had a pre-existence as spiritual creatures and return to that spiritual life once their bodies die. This spiritual realm after death is an additional learning ground where God continues to teach the dead about Himself. The text from Peter is used to support this idea. Stranger still, this learning ground, where apparently the spirits are in the presence of God, is called a prison.

It would seem that a text with such varying interpretations and controversy must be ambiguous in nature, or else the world’s churches would reach a consensus about its meaning. Yet, when the context of the passage is considered, it becomes unmistakably clear. When we read the verses both prior to and following the verse in question, the passage states:

“For Christ also suffered once for sins, the just for the unjust, that He might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive by the Spirit, by whom also He went and preached to the spirits in prison, who formerly were disobedient, when once the Divine longsuffering waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight souls, were saved through water” (1 Peter 3:18–20).

Truly, the passage is referring to Jesus Christ, and it does plainly say that he preached to spirits in prison. However, it also removes the guessing that leads to the conflicting interpretations. It says that Christ died but was made alive again through the Spirit of God, “by whom” He preached to spirits in prison. So we know that the one who did the preaching was actually the Holy Spirit, not Christ directly. The Spirit speaks the words given to Him by Christ (see John 16:13), and therefore is Christ’s representative (but nonetheless a distinct entity of God). We therefore know that the passage cannot mean that Jesus descended into hell to preach, because it was the Holy Spirit that did the preaching, not Jesus.

But when, and where, is this prison, and who are the spirits to whom the Holy Spirit preached the words of Christ? Verse 20 provides the answer.

The spirits “were formally disobedient.” Disobedience to God is sin. The Bible clearly states that sinners in open rebellion toward God are “slaves to sin,” or prisoners of unrighteousness (see Romans 6:16). For additional texts where prisoner imagery is used to describe the condition of sin, see Psalm 142:7, Isaiah 42:6, 7, and Luke 4:18. So the “spirits in prison” are those in rebellion against God, or sinners.

When did the Holy Spirit preach to sinners? Can we know whether these sinners were alive or dead when this occurred? The passage continues to talk explicitly about the “days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared.” The passage, in its proper context, is describing Christ’s ministry, through the person of the Holy Spirit, to reach sinners in the time of Noah, before the flood. Nowhere does the passage give us license to send Jesus to hell in between the cross and the resurrection, nor does it allow us to make the “prison” a heavenly learning ground after death. The passage is clear: the Holy Spirit preached to sinners in the days of Noah before the flood.

To further clarify this point, Peter continues his argument in verse 21 by stating:

“There is also an antitype which now saves us—baptism (not the removal of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God), through the resurrection of Jesus Christ” (1 Peter 3:21).

An antitype is a prophetic fulfillment. Peter says that, just as the eight souls were saved “through water” on the ark, in the same way we are now saved by baptism through the resurrection of Jesus Christ. The water washed away the filth from the earth in Noah’s day, and the water symbolically washes away our guilt through Christ’s sacrifice. The Holy Spirit is involved in both processes: He preached to sinners to try to save them before the flood, and He preaches to us to bring us to repentance and baptism (see John 16:8, 9).

In light of this comparison to baptism, there cannot be any other meaning to the text in question except that the Spirit preached to sinners in Noah’s day. The flood is significant to the point Peter is making. Without it, any comparison to an “antitype” in baptism is meaningless. Certainly, baptism cannot be compared to the fires of hell! When we understand this meaning, it becomes clear that this text cannot be used to support any theology about death or the afterlife at all.

http://www.truthaboutdeath.com/q-and-a/id/1599/didnt-jesus-preach-to-the-spirits-in-prison.aspx

chukwudi44: @frosbel

This is a shameful misrepresentation of an explicit bible passage.Please stop making a fool of yourself.where did you read it was the holy spirit that preached to these spirits.You just go and copy and paste from any stupid write up that meets your fancy.

Even when it was explicitly stated that this event occured during Jesus's three days in the grave,your stupid link claims it happened in the time of noah.How dogmatic can one really get?

chukwudi44: This not about any catholic doctrine but rather about a misrepresentation of an explicit bible verse

chukwudi44: @frosbel

This is a shameful misrepresentation of an explicit bible passage.Please stop making a fool of yourself.where did you read it was the holy spirit that preached to these spirits.You just go and copy and paste from any stupid write up that meets your fancy.

Even when it was explicitly stated that this event occured during Jesus's three days in the grave,your stupid link claims it happened in the time of noah.How dogmatic can one really get?

chukwudi44: This not about any catholic doctrine but rather about a misrepresentation of an explicit bible verse