frosbel: Let us revisit this topic brethren, the lives of millions of depend on it.

Please before you call me a heretic, consider that many precious Muslim ,Jewish and even atheist brothers and sisters have been totally confused by this so called doctrine and hence they have been denied a chance at salvation by the Messiah Lord Jesus Christ.

Jesus Christ is not Yahweh , he is distinct from Yahweh but is Co-Equal with the Father in ONE purpose .


So what do we have here :

1. Yahweh : God Almighty who is not a MAN , but our father, the ancient of days, the one who has no beginning and no end.

2. Yeshua : Our redeemer Lord Jesus Christ , the Saviour of mankind and the exact likeness of the Father in Human form.

This trinity doctrine does not make sense and if it does make sense then it should be discarded. What makes sense is that our Loving Father has sent a Saviour in the likeness of Man to redeem Man from the Power of sin and death.

Jesus Christ is the last Adam who came to undo what the first Adam had damaged.

"So it is written: "The first man Adam became a living being"; the last Adam, a life-giving spirit." - 1 Corinthians 15:45

Simply put Jesus Christ was Born as a Man with the Power of the Holy Spirit and genetically flawless. He had to be a Man to overcome SIN

Reasons why Jesus cannot be Yahweh :

1. God cannot be tempted , but Jesus was tempted

2. God cannot die but our Lord died and was raised on the third day

3. Before Jesus Christ started his ministry he had to be anointed with the Holy Spirit just like we believers today.

4. On the cross our Lord cried, ' father why has thou forsaken me ' , so this was Jesus our Lord and Saviour not GOD.

4. God with his power raised up Jesus from the Dead.

5. God has put all things under his feet and giving Christ the highest honour in heaven and earth , whereby he rules as GOD but is not GOD.

6. Places were Jesus was referred to as GOD in the bible we actually translated as LORD in the correct Greek or Hebrew translation

7. Jesus Christ said the Father is greater than I

8. He prayed to the father.



We owe our very lives , gratitude and service to Christ Jesus, who as the last Adam has defeated SATAN and restored dominion to mankind which will be completed when all his enemies have been put under his feet.


Praise and all gratitude be to Yahweh Almighty from everlasting to everlasting.

I am thankful to God that he has made himself known to man, God is not the author of confusion and yet many churches want us to accept this Pagan trintiy doctrine hook line and sinker without the ability to reason with scriptures.

Let us discuss .

God bless.


[size=13pt]For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.[/size] - 1 Corinthians 14:33

kokolet007: @frosbel God wil enlightened and strengthened u more in his ways!

Meet a Man Called Messiah Jesus e Christians should be very clear about the identity of the one to whom we claim loyalty. Our textbook, the Bible, introduces him with delight, simplicity, and meticulous care. Before you have completed reading the first chapter of Matthew and Luke, you will have learned that Jesus is the Messiah (Christ), the King of Israel, the King of the Jews, the Son of God (which is a synonym for the King of Israel: John 1:49).

You will have learned that Jesus is the biological son of Mary, the legal son of Joseph, and of course the Son of God, by creative miracle.The reason for him being the Son of God is spelled out with matchless clarity and simplicity in Luke 1:35: It is “because of” — “precisely for this reason” (dio kai) — that God became his Father by miracle in Mary. That seems to be so reasonable and just what we expect for the origin of the second Adam,the head of the new creation.

Luke 1:35 is the definitive and decisive, lifechanging text for defining how, why and when Jesus originates as the Son of God. To miss this angelic definition of Jesus is to miss the core of the whole NT, indeed the whole Bible. It wasn’t long after Bible times that the Son of God of Luke and the NT was transformed into a figure barely recognizable as the Jesus of history.

He was lifted out of history and given a new and confusing identity. Scholars have conducted a never-ending “quest for the historical Jesus,” implying that he was lost! But the quest had been successfully undertaken by Matthew and Luke and the rest of the NT writers!

No need to look further. Jesus is there in the opening chapters of the NT. He is the Messiah and the supernaturally procreated Son of God. Jesus is also the descendant of Judah (Heb. 7:14). He is of the tribe of Judah. He is also the son of Adam, and of Eve (as the seed of the woman). Move two chapters ahead in Luke to find that Jesus is the son of Adam who was the son of God (Luke 3:38). As a child from the womb of Mary Jesus is the uniquely begotten man, the Son of Man, the Messiah, King of Israel.

He is also of course the walking embodiment of God’s preplanned wisdom and word (John 1:1, 14).

But Jesus is not “God the Son,” making two Gods.A 17th-century orthodox bishop and theologian, Thomas Ken, was rightly puzzled by the amazing definition which the Church by then had long held as traditional —the idea that Jesus was the “eternally generated Son.” He mused:

“Strange generation this! Father and Son co-eternal. Two distinct and yet but one.”

Matthew and Luke, and especially Mary, would have been aghast at such non-biblical, philosophical jargon and, one might ask, ought we not to be asking questions about how and where our church got its creed and its definition of Jesus? Is all that language about “essence” and “Persons” really intelligible by scriptural standards?

Our quest for truth can be expedited by another excellent Bible text. Here it is: A wonderful title for Jesus can be discovered before you have completed Luke 1. According to Elizabeth, Jesus is “my lord.” Elizabeth hailed Mary as “the mother of my lord” (Luke 1:43). She is not “the mother of my GOD” (!) as later misdescribed in post-biblical theology. And “my lord” is derived from the most interesting of all titles, the one found in Psalm 110:1 where God (the YHVH of the Hebrew Bible) addressed an inspired oracle through David to “my lord” (adoni). His instructions were that this descendant of David was to sit at the right hand of the One God, until hiis enemies are subdued under his feet. This text provides the golden key to the constitution and plot for the whole Bible!

That is why it is quoted more often than any OT text in the NT. That “my lord” of Psalm 110:1 is the very same “man of My right hand” of Psalm 80:17, “the man whom God has made strong for Himself.” The one at the right hand of God is the supremely exalted man Messiah, not a second God!

Psalm 110:1 was the subject of Jesus’ master-question. With this verse he stumped all his opponents. Another stellar text describing who the real Jesus is is found in Deuteronomy 18:15-18. This verse is cited by Peter (Acts 3:22) and Stephen (Acts 7:37, as he died at the hands of hostile Jews): God promised to produce from the ranks of Israel a prophet like Moses. He was to be God’s final word to the world, and any who did not yield to him and his teachings would be rooted out from among the people. God would hold them accountable for refusing the words of His final agent, the Son of God, Jesus.

This is the biblical identity of Jesus as Messiah. With this list of titles for the great central personage of the biblical drama, you can move forward from Matthew 1 to an intelligent reading of the great biblical drama. Your destiny is bound up with the Messiah, who died for the sins of the world, and you are invited to rule on earth with him in his coming Kingdom. It will be wise to drop titles like “God the Son” (making a second God) and omit fromyour thinking any myths about “going to heaven when you die.” That will prove to be a disastrous diversion from the plot of the real and only biblical story. The Messiah Jesus is going to return from heaven to the earth, which will be renewed and become the scene of the very first successful world government, the Kingdom of God, with headquarters in Jerusalem. “May His Kingdom come!”


http://focusonthekingdom.org/1411.pdf

italo: Two questions to those who say Jesus is not God.

Whose name is 'I AM?'

Who said "before Abraham was, I AM?"

ijawkid:

When did I AM become Gods name??

So anywhere or anytime people use the. Expression ""I AM"" then it means they are Yahweh too??

When in d world did the expression "" I am"" mean God or meant exclusively to mean Yahweh??

So if u go for an interview and an employer shuld ask:::: are u ITALO?? And u reply ::yes
"" I AM""......
I think that should make u Yahweh or God...


Can u please tell me the full meaning of the hebrew tetragrammaton??

Tell me.....

And I'll get back to u......

ijawkid:

When did I AM become Gods name??

So anywhere or anytime people use the. Expression ""I AM"" then it means they are Yahweh too??

When in d world did the expression "" I am"" mean God or meant exclusively to mean Yahweh??

So if u go for an interview and an employer shuld ask:::: are u ITALO?? And u reply ::yes
"" I AM""......
I think that should make u Yahweh or God...


Can u please tell me the full meaning of the hebrew tetragrammaton??

Tell me.....

And I'll get back to u......

italo: Two questions to those who say Jesus is not God.

Whose name is 'I AM?'

Who said "before Abraham was, I AM?"

Rich4god: Matt 28:13, 1Peter 1:1-2 and 2Corinthian 13:14. In the begining, God said let Us create man in our own image. Who are the "US".

1. The word "God" is Elohim, which is itself a plural form and, like most other words, has more than one definition. It is used in a plural sense of "gods" or "men with authority," and in a singular sense for "God," "god," or "a man with authority, such as a judge." The Hebrew lexicon by Brown, Driver and Briggs, considered to be one of the best available, has as its first usage for Elohim: "rulers, judges, either as divine representatives at sacred places or as reflecting divine majesty and power, divine ones, superhuman beings including God and angels, gods."

Elohim is translated "gods" in many verses. Genesis 35:2 reads, "Get rid of all the foreign gods you have with you," and Exodus 18:11 says, "Now I know that the Lord is greater than all other gods." It is translated "judges" in Exodus 21:6; 22:8 and 9. It is translated "angels" (KJV) or "heavenly beings" (NIV) in Psalm 8:5. That is its plural use, and there is no evidence that anyone thought of these "gods" as having some kind of plurality of persons within themselves.

2. Elohim is also translated as the singular "god" or "judge," and there is no hint of any "compound nature" when it is translated that way. An example is Exodus 22:20, which reads, "Whoever sacrifices to any god other than the lord must be destroyed." Another example is Judges 6:31: "If Baal really is a god, he can defend himself when someone breaks down his altar." In Exodus 7:1, God says that He has made Moses a "god" (Elohim) to Pharaoh. Again, in Judges 11:24, the pagan god Chemosh is called Elohim, and in 1 Samuel 5:7, the pagan god Dagon is called Elohim, yet Christians do not conclude that those gods were somehow composite or "uniplural," or that the people who worshipped them thought they were.

Exactly how to translate Elohim in 1 Samuel 2:25 has been debated by scholars. The question is whether Elohim in the verse refers to a human judge or to God. The KJV says "judge." The versions are divided between them, some translating Elohim as a man, others as God Himself. The fact that the scholars and translators debate about whether the word Elohim refers to a man or God shows vividly that the word itself does not have any inherent idea of a plurality of persons. If it did, it could not be translated as "god" when referring to a pagan god, or as "judge" when referring to a man. The evidence in Scripture does not warrant the conclusion that the Hebrew word Elohim inherently contains the idea of a compound nature.

3. Some teach that the word Elohim implies a compound unity when it refers to the true God. That would mean that the word Elohim somehow changes meaning when it is applied to the true God so that the true God can be a compound being. There is just no evidence of this. The first place we should go for confirmation of this is to the Jews themselves. When we study the history and the language of the Jews, we discover that they never understood Elohim to imply a plurality in God in any way. In fact, the Jews were staunchly opposed to people and nations who tried to introduce any hint of more than one God into their culture. Jewish rabbis have debated the Law to the point of tedium, and have recorded volume after volume of notes on the Law, yet in all of their debates there is no mention of a plurality in God. This fact in and of itself ought to close the argument.

No higher authority on the Hebrew language can be found than the great Hebrew scholar, Gesenius. He wrote that the plural nature of Elohim was for intensification, and was related to the plural of majesty and used for amplification. Gesenius states, "That the language has entirely rejected the idea of numerical plurality in Elohim (whenever it denotes one God) is proved especially by its being almost invariably joined with a singular attribute." [2]
The singular pronoun is always used with the word Elohim. A study of the word will show what Gesenius stated, that the singular attribute (such as "He," not "They," or "I," not "We" ) always follows Elohim. Furthermore, when the word Elohim is used to denote others beside the true God, it is understood as singular or plural, never as "uniplural." To us, the evidence is clear: God is not "compound" in any sense of the word. He is the "one God" of Israel.

4. Scripture contains no reproof for those who do not believe in a "Triune God." Those who do not believe in God are called "fools" (Ps. 14:1). Those who reject Christ are condemned (John 3:18). Scripture testifies that it is for "doctrine, reproof, and correction" (2 Tim. 3:16 - KJV), and there are many verses that reprove believers for all kinds of erroneous beliefs and practices. Conspicuous in its absence is any kind of reproof for not believing in the Trinity.

http://www.call-to-monotheism.com/genesis_1_1__by_biblical_unitarian__out_reach_judaism_and_jews_for_judaism

Sweetnecta: I am glad that Frosbel finally admit neither Jesus nor Holy Spirit is God.

Now you need to quit christianity altogether because the Bible, through the confusionist magic Paul stated Jesus and Holy Spirit are gods in addition to Ellah The God of Jesus.

You cannot say you are a monotheist as a christian with what we find in the Bible.

You best bet and the only radical and clearly worldwide Universal monotheists are the muslims; Islam is unlike the tribal monotheistic judaism or psedo monotheistic christianity.

italo: So who are the "US?"

Whose name is "I AM?"

Who said "before Abraham was, I AM?"

italo:

*fingers crossed*

Rich4god: Only God 4gvs sins... If Jesus is not God, how can He 4gv sin?. Why do we have to be baptized in name of the trinity, why not in the name of God only?.

Rich4god: Only God 4gvs sins... If Jesus is not God, how can He 4gv sin?. Why do we have to be baptized in name of the trinity, why not in the name of God only?.

frosbel:


Baptised in the name of Trinity ?

Where did you get this from.

The Father = Yahweh
The SON = Jesus Christ
Holy Spirit = God's spirit which indwells the believer


Does God have 2 spirits or 1 , tell me.

God is a Spirit , right ? What about the Holy Spirit, is this not God's spirit too

Rich4god:
Dont get me wrong. When i say trinity, i mean in the name of the Father, and of the Son and of the Holy Spirity. My question again... Why are we not baptized in the name of God only, but instead it is in the name of the 3 Persons(trinity)?. When Christ breathed to the apostles, He said "recieve the Holy Spirit", why didnt He say "recieve God the Father (or God's spirit)?. Note = "May the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Love of God and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit... Why did Paul have to call out the 3Person's why not just mention God alone.

Rich4god:
Dont get me wrong. When i say trinity, i mean in the name of the Father, and of the Son and of the Holy Spirity. My question again... Why are we not baptized in the name of God only, but instead it is in the name of the 3 Persons(trinity)?. When Christ breathed to the apostles, He said "recieve the Holy Spirit", why didnt He say "recieve God the Father (or God's spirit)?. Note = "May the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Love of God and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit... Why did Paul have to call out the 3Person's why not just mention God alone.

Rich4god: @Ijawkid... Plz, i have a question for you. You said Jesus gave His disciple the authority to forgive sins... Now, did the disciple die with that authority or did they pass it down to other christians.