It sometimes amazes me of how foolish some fellow can be.. For crying out loud how will a sane person be comparing the accuracy and correctness of the Holy Bible to some crab called science..

My Advice

Guys if you don't have anything to say or do just go fishing and avoid incuring the wrath of God with ur comments

Interesting conversation. I dont think we should condemn those guys criticizing the Bible as Atheists. Although I have to admit that their forced rationalism tends to be too much sometimes. It is obvious that they already have their opinions are just defending them with 'reasonable sounding arguments'. If only they were a bit more objective then we will be able to have a pleasant discussion.

I also have to say that the time for blindly defending the Holy books is gone. Those of us who are religious have to find the reasons behind our faith. It is true that Gods ways are far beyond ours and so we just have to accept things he reveals to us. But at the same time a little bit of historical study will show the shallowness of some of these atheistic positions. For one, the literal interpretation of the Bible has always and will continue too lead to confusion. How many people know the purported year Genesis was written? What were the languages spoken then? What were the cultural beliefs and background of the principal actors. Who included the book of Genesis in Holy Scripture as we know it today. Are the translations we read today faithful to the original scripts written by the authors. These and many more questions have to be answered if we want to understand the message the Bible is trying to pass to us. To understand what the Bible means when it says that God created the world in 7 days and rested, we have to understand the significance of the number 7 to the Jewish man of that time. We have to understand the importance of the Sabath to the person who was writing the book of Genesis.

I could go on and on but I think I have said enough. Back to work while I continue to monitor this exciting conversation

sneak3: It sometimes amazes of how foolish some fellow can be.. For crying out loud how will a sane person be comparing the accuracy and correctness of the Holy Bible to some crab called science..

My Advice

Guys if you don't have anything to say or do just go fishing and avoid incuring the wrath of God with ur comments

Your bible is the crap and your god is just in your imagination. You need to open your mind to reasoning.

sneak3: It sometimes amazes of how foolish some fellow can be.. For crying out loud how will a sane person be comparing the accuracy and correctness of the Holy Bible to some crab called science..

My Advice

Guys if you don't have anything to say or do just go fishing and avoid incuring the wrath of God with ur comments

i am a christian wu bliv in d bible. I hav bin on religon section of nairaland for some time naw and hav noticd dat each time a refrence is made from d bible, some group just ignore it as a fairy tale made by men but view science as almighty.

D aim of dis thread is to understand y dis hapens,exposing certain scientific eror and inconsistency with a view of correcting the wrong idea .

ghazzal:
really! no contradiction. you know or you think or you heard. if you are proved otherwise, what will happen

I know! And if it is proved that it does not contradict it self what happens? Will will believe it and worship the true GOD?

Attention Ghazzal, 2good,kay17 et el.

What Can Add Meaning to Your Life?
HAVE you dreamed of enjoying a better life, whether in your home area or in a tropical paradise? At one time or another, most of us have.
In 1891, French artist Paul Gauguin went to find such a life in French Polynesia. But reality soon set in. His dissolute past brought disease and suffering to himself and others. As he felt death approaching, he painted what has been described as a “final affirmation of artistic force.” The book Paul Gauguin 1848-1903—The Primitive Sophisticate says: “The spectrum of human activity encompassed by the painting spans all of life, from birth to death . . . He was interpreting life as a great mystery.”
Gauguin named that painting “Where Do We Come From? What Are We? Where Are We Going?”
Those questions may sound familiar. Many thinking people ask them. After noting man’s scientific and technical advances, an editor of The Wall Street Journal wrote: “In the contemplation of man himself, of his dilemmas, of his place in this universe, we are little further along than when time began. We are still left with questions of who we are and why we are and where we are going.”
True, some people are preoccupied with caring for their family, earning a living, traveling, or other personal interests because they know of no other meaning to life. Albert Einstein once said: “The man who regards his life as meaningless is not merely unhappy but hardly fit for life.” In line with such thinking, some seek to put meaning in their life by pursuing the arts, scientific research, or humanitarian efforts to curb suffering. Do you know some like that?

It is understandable that basic questions about the meaning of life arise. How many parents after seeing a child die from malaria or another disease ask, Why such suffering? Is there meaning to it? Similar questions puzzle many young men and women who observe poverty, disease, and injustice. Brutal wars often lead people to wonder whether there can be meaning to life.
Even if you have not experienced such miseries, you might agree with Professor Freeman Dyson, who said: “I stand in good company when I ask again the questions [that the Biblical character] Job asked. Why do we suffer? Why is the world so unjust? What is the purpose of pain and tragedy?” You too might want the answers.
Finding satisfying answers would surely make a difference. A professor who endured the horrors of Auschwitz concentration camp observed: “There is nothing in the world . . . that would so effectively help one to survive even the worst conditions as the knowledge that there is a meaning in one’s life.” He felt that even one’s mental health is linked to this search for meaning.
Over the centuries, many have sought answers through religion. After Gautama (Buddha) was exposed to the sight of a sick man, an old man, and a dead man, he sought enlightenment, or meaning, in religion but without belief in a personal God. Others have turned to their church.
What, though, about people today? Many focus on science, dismissing religion and “God” as irrelevant. “The more science progresses,” comments Religion and Atheism, “the less room there seems to be for God. God has become a Displaced Person.”

Doing Without a Creator—Why?
Actually, the trend to dismiss religion or God has roots in philosophies of men who stressed pure reason. Charles Darwin felt that “natural selection” explains the living world better than does the existence of a Creator. Sigmund Freud taught that God was an illusion. And the view that ‘God is dead’ extends from the time of Friedrich Nietzsche down to our day. Oriental philosophies are similar. Teachers of Buddhism hold that there is no need to know about God. As to Shinto, Professor Tetsuo Yamaori stated that “gods are nothing but humans.”
While skepticism about the existence of a Creator abounds, is it justified? Likely you know examples of ‘scientific facts’ that prevailed in the past but that in time were proved totally wrong. Views such as ‘The earth is flat’ and ‘The whole universe revolves around our globe’ prevailed for centuries, but we now know better.
What about later scientific ideas? For example, the 18th century philosopher David Hume—not accepting that there is a Creator—could offer no explanation for the complex biological design on earth. Darwin’s theory proposed how life-forms developed, but it did not explain how life began or what meaning it has for us.
Consequently, many scientists as well as laymen sense that something is lacking. Scientific theories may try to explain how? but the key questions center on why? Even people raised amid belief in a Creator are affected. One young European history student said: “For me, God is dead. If he really did exist, there wouldn’t be such a mess in the world: Innocent people are starving; animal species are going extinct . . . The idea of a Creator is nonsense.” Given the conditions on earth, many cannot understand why a Creator—given that one exists—does not change things for the better.
Yet, we must admit that the reason many reject the existence of a Creator is that they do not want to believe. “Even if God were to tell me personally that I had to change my life,” a European industrialist told an employee: “I still would not do it. I want to live my life the way I like it.” Clearly, some feel that admitting the authority of a Creator would conflict with their freedom or with the life-style they prefer. They may proclaim, ‘I only believe what I see, and I can’t see any invisible Creator.’

Apart from why individuals have ‘done without a Creator,’ questions about life and its meaning persist. The day after man landed on the moon, theologian Karl Barth was asked about this technological triumph. He said: “It solves none of the problems that keep me awake at night.” Today man is flying in space and speeding along in cyberspace. Still, thinking people see the need to have a purpose, something that gives meaning to their life.
We invite all who have an open mind to consider this subject. The book Belief in God and Intellectual Honesty notes that one who possesses “intellectual honesty” is characterized by a “readiness to scrutinize what one believes to be true” and “to pay sufficient attention to other evidence available.”
In the subject at hand, such “evidence available” can help us to see whether there is a Creator behind life and the universe. And if a Creator exists, what might that One be like? Would a Creator have a personality that relates to our lives? Our considering this can shed light on how our lives can become more meaningful and rewarding.

How Did Our Universe Get Here?—The Controversy
ASTRONAUTS thrill to photograph the earth as it looms large through the window of a spacecraft. “That’s the best part of flying in space,” said one. But our earth seems very small when compared with the solar system. The sun could hold a million earths inside, with room to spare! However, could such facts about the universe have any bearing on your life and its meaning?
Let us take a brief mental trip into space to see our earth and sun in perspective. Our sun is just one of an awesome number of stars in a spiral arm of the Milky Way galaxy, which itself is just a tiny part of the universe. With the naked eye, it is possible to see a few smudges of light that actually are other galaxies, such as the beautiful and larger Andromeda. The Milky Way, Andromeda, and some 20 other galaxies are bound gravitationally into a cluster, all of these being only a small neighborhood in a vast supercluster. The universe contains countless superclusters, and the picture does not end there.

The clusters are not evenly distributed in space. On a grand scale, they look like thin sheets and filaments around vast bubblelike voids. Some features are so long and wide that they resemble great walls. This may surprise many who think that our universe created itself in a chance cosmic explosion. “The more clearly we can see the universe in all its glorious detail,” concludes a senior writer for Scientific American, “the more difficult it will be for us to explain with a simple theory how it came to be that way.”

Evidence Pointing to a Beginning
All the individual stars you see are in the Milky Way galaxy. Until the 1920’s, that seemed to be the only galaxy. You probably know, though, that observations with larger telescopes have since proved otherwise. Our universe contains at least 50,000,000,000 galaxies. We do not mean 50 billion stars—but at least 50 billion galaxies, each with billions of stars like our sun. Yet it was not the staggering quantity of huge galaxies that shook scientific beliefs in the 1920’s. It was that they are all in motion.
Astronomers discovered a remarkable fact: When galactic light was passed through a prism, the light waves were seen to be stretched, indicating motion away from us at great speed. The more distant a galaxy, the faster it appeared to be receding. That points to an expanding universe!

Even if we are neither professional astronomers nor amateurs, we can see that an expanding universe would have profound implications about our past—and perhaps our personal future too. Something must have started the process—a force powerful enough to overcome the immense gravity of the entire universe. You have good reason to ask, ‘What could be the source of such dynamic energy?’
Although most scientists trace the universe back to a very small, dense beginning (a singularity), we cannot avoid this key issue: “If at some point in the past, the Universe was once close to a singular state of infinitely small size and infinite density, we have to ask what was there before and what was outside the Universe. . . . We have to face the problem of a Beginning.”—Sir Bernard Lovell.

This implies more than just a source of vast energy. Foresight and intelligence are also needed because the rate of expansion seems very finely tuned. “If the Universe had expanded one million millionth part faster,” said Lovell, “then all the material in the Universe would have dispersed by now. . . . And if it had been a million millionth part slower, then gravitational forces would have caused the Universe to collapse within the first thousand million years or so of its existence. Again, there would have been no long-lived stars and no life.”

Attempts to Explain the Beginning
Can experts now explain the origin of the universe? Many scientists, uncomfortable with the idea that the universe was created by a higher intelligence, speculate that by some mechanism it created itself out of nothing. Does that sound reasonable to you? Such speculations usually involve some variation of a theory (inflationary universe model) conceived in 1979 by physicist Alan Guth. Yet, more recently, Dr. Guth admitted that his theory “does not explain how the universe arose from nothing.” Dr. Andrei Linde was more explicit in a Scientific American article: “Explaining this initial singularity—where and when it all began—still remains the most intractable problem of modern cosmology.”
If experts cannot really explain either the origin or the early development of our universe, should we not look elsewhere for an explanation? Indeed, you have valid reasons to consider some evidence that many have overlooked but that may give you real insight on this issue. The evidence includes the precise measurements of four fundamental forces that are responsible for all properties and changes affecting matter. At the mere mention of fundamental forces, some may hesitate, thinking, ‘That’s solely for physicists.’ Not so. The basic facts are worth considering because they affect us.

Fine-Tuning
The four fundamental forces come into play both in the vastness of the cosmos and in the infinite smallness of atomic structures. Yes, everything we see around us is involved.
Elements vital for our life (particularly carbon, oxygen, and iron) could not exist were it not for the fine-tuning of the four forces evident in the universe. We already mentioned one force, gravity. Another is the electromagnetic force. If it were significantly weaker, electrons would not be held around the nucleus of an atom. ‘Would that be serious?’ some might wonder. Yes, because atoms could not combine to form molecules. Conversely, if this force were much stronger, electrons would be trapped on the nucleus of an atom. There could be no chemical reactions between atoms—meaning no life. Even from this standpoint, it is clear that our existence and life depend on the fine-tuning of the electromagnetic force.
And consider the cosmic scale: A slight difference in the electromagnetic force would affect the sun and thus alter the light reaching the earth, making photosynthesis in plants difficult or impossible. It could also rob water of its unique properties, which are vital for life. So again, the precise tuning of the electromagnetic force determines whether we live or not.

Equally vital is the intensity of the electromagnetic force in relation to the other three. For example, some physicists figure this force to be 10,000,- 000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 (1040) times that of gravity. It might seem a small change to that number to add one more zero (1041). Yet that would mean that gravity is proportionally weaker, and Dr. Reinhard Breuer comments on the resulting situation: “With lower gravity the stars would be smaller, and the pressure of gravity in their interiors would not drive the temperature high enough for nuclear fusion reactions to get under way: the sun would be unable to shine.” You can imagine what that would mean for us!
What if gravity were stronger proportionately, so that the number had only 39 zeros (1039)? “With just this tiny adjustment,” continues Breuer, “a star like the sun would find its life expectancy sharply reduced.” And other scientists consider the fine-tuning to be even more precise.

Indeed, two remarkable qualities of our sun and other stars are long-term efficiency and stability. Consider a simple illustration. We know that to run efficiently, an automobile engine needs a critical ratio between fuel and air; engineers design complex mechanical and computer systems to optimize performance. If that is so with a mere engine, what of the efficiently “burning” stars such as our sun? The key forces involved are precisely tuned, optimized for life. Did that precision just happen? The ancient man Job was asked: “Did you proclaim the rules that govern the heavens, or determine the laws of nature on earth?” (Job 38:33, The New English Bible) No human did. So from where does the precision come?

The Two Nuclear Forces
The structure of the universe involves much more than fine-tuning just gravity and the electromagnetic force. Two other physical forces also relate to our life.
These two forces operate in the nucleus of an atom, and they give ample evidence of forethought. Consider the strong nuclear force, which glues protons and neutrons together in the nucleus of the atom. Because of this bonding, various elements can form—light ones (such as helium and oxygen) and heavy ones (such as gold and lead). It seems that if this binding force were a mere 2-percent weaker, only hydrogen would exist. Conversely, if this force were slightly stronger, only heavier elements, but no hydrogen, could be found. Would our lives be affected? Well, if the universe lacked hydrogen, our sun would not have the fuel it needs to radiate life-giving energy. And, of course, we would have no water or food, since hydrogen is an essential ingredient of both.

The fourth force in this discussion, called the weak nuclear force, controls radioactive decay. It also affects thermonuclear activity in our sun. ‘Is this force fine-tuned?’ you might ask. Mathematician and physicist Freeman Dyson explains: “The weak [force] is millions of times weaker than the nuclear force. It is just weak enough so that the hydrogen in the sun burns at a slow and steady rate. If the weak [force] were much stronger or much weaker, any forms of life dependent on sunlike stars would again be in difficulties.” Yes, this precise rate of burning keeps our earth warm—but not incinerated—and keeps us alive.
Furthermore, scientists believe that the weak force plays a role in supernova explosions, which they give as the mechanism for producing and distributing most elements. “If those nuclear forces were in any way slightly different from the way they actually are, the stars would be incapable of making the elements of which you and I are composed,” explains physicist John Polkinghorne.

More could be said, but you likely understand the point. There is an amazing degree of fine-tuning in these four fundamental forces. “All around us, we seem to see evidence that nature got it just right,” wrote Professor Paul Davies. Yes, the precise tuning of the fundamental forces has made possible the existence and operation of our sun, our delightful planet with its life-sustaining water, our atmosphere so vital for life, and a vast array of precious chemical elements on earth. But ask yourself, ‘Why such precise tuning, and from where?’
Earth’s Ideal Features
Our existence requires precision in other respects as well. Consider the earth’s measurements and its position relative to the rest of our solar system. The Bible book of Job contains these humbling questions: “Where did you happen to be when I founded the earth? . . . Who set its measurements, in case you know?” (Job 38:4, 5) As never before, those questions beg for answers. Why? Because of the amazing things that have been discovered about our earth—including its size and its position in our solar system.

No planet like earth has been found elsewhere in the universe. True, some scientists point to indirect evidence that certain stars have orbiting them objects that are hundreds of times larger than the earth. Our earth, though, is just the right size for our existence. In what sense? If earth were slightly larger, its gravity would be stronger and hydrogen, a light gas, would collect, being unable to escape the earth’s gravity. Thus, the atmosphere would be inhospitable to life. On the other hand, if our earth were slightly smaller, life-sustaining oxygen would escape and surface water would evaporate. In either case, we could not live.
The earth is also at an ideal distance from the sun, a factor vital for life to thrive. Astronomer John Barrow and mathematician Frank Tipler studied “the ratio of the Earth’s radius and distance from the Sun.” They concluded that human life would not exist “were this ratio slightly different from what it is observed to be.” Professor David L. Block notes: “Calculations show that had the earth been situated only 5 per cent closer to the sun, a runaway greenhouse effect [overheating of the earth] would have occurred about 4 000 million years ago. If, on the other hand, the earth were placed only 1 per cent further from the sun, runaway glaciation [huge sheets of ice covering much of the globe] would have occurred some 2 000 million years ago.”—Our Universe: Accident or Design?

To the above precision, you can add the fact that the earth rotates on its axis once a day, the right speed to produce moderate temperatures. Venus takes 243 days to rotate. Just think if the earth took as long! We could not survive the extreme temperatures resulting from such long days and nights.
Another vital detail is our earth’s path around the sun. Comets have a wide elliptic path. Thankfully, this is not so with the earth. Its orbit is almost circular. Again, this prevents us from experiencing death-dealing extremes of temperature.
Nor should we ignore the location of our solar system. Were it nearer the center of the Milky Way galaxy, the gravitational effect of neighboring stars would distort the orbit of the earth. In contrast, were it situated at the very edge of our galaxy, the night sky would be all but devoid of stars. Starlight is not essential to life, but does it not add great beauty to our night sky? And based on current concepts of the universe, scientists have calculated that at the edges of the Milky Way, there would not have been enough of the needed chemical elements to form a solar system like ours.

Law and Order
From personal experience, you likely know that all things tend toward disorder. As any homeowner has observed, when left to themselves, things tend to break down or disintegrate. Scientists refer to this tendency as “the second law of thermodynamics.” We can see this law at work daily. If left alone, a new automobile or bicycle will become scrap. Abandon a building and it will become a ruin. What about the universe? The law applies there too. So you might think that the order throughout the universe should give way to complete disorder.
However, this does not seem to be happening to the universe, as Professor of Mathematics Roger Penrose discovered when he studied the state of disorderliness (or, entropy) of the observable universe. A logical way to interpret such findings is to conclude that the universe started off in an ordered state and is still highly organized. Astrophysicist Alan Lightman noted that scientists “find it mysterious that the universe was created in such a highly ordered condition.” He added that “any successful theory of cosmology should ultimately explain this entropy problem”—why the universe has not become chaotic.
In fact, our existence is contrary to this recognized law. So why is it that we are alive here on earth? As previously noted, that is a basic question that we should want answered.

ghazzal:

1st....... God created man in chapter 1
2nd....... Then God formed man from the dust
3rd....... Then God breathed into man and man came alive

my Q. which man was breathed into. is it 1st-the man created in chapter 1 or 2nd the man formed from dust. i would think the man formed from dust(could be Gap theort too)but what happened to the man created in chapter 1. was he destroyed or is can you explain a logical relationship btw the man in 1 and 2.

also, is it a mistake that God created man before he realised that there is need for the floor to be tilled. God i believe and i think you also believe is a perfect planner

“And God went on to say: ‘Let us make man in our image, according to our likeness, and let them have in subjection the fish of the sea and the flying creatures of the heavens and the domestic animals and all the earth and every moving animal that is moving upon the earth.’ And God proceeded to create the man in his image, in God’s image he created him; male and female he created them.”—Genesis 1:26, 27.
Chapter 2 of Genesis apparently adds some details. However, it is not, as you have concluded, another account of creation in conflict with that of chapter 1. It just takes up at a point in the third “day,” after dry land appeared but before land plants were created, adding details that were pertinent to the arrival of humans—Adam the living soul, his garden home, Eden, and the woman Eve, his wife.—Genesis 2:5-9, 15-18, 21, 22.

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TalkingBird:

I know! And if it is proved that it does not contradict it self what happens? Will will believe it and worship the true GOD?

yes. but but if it proves that it contradicts, will your view become open, will you search elsewhere?...pls think very well b4 you answer

ghazzal:
yes. but but if it proves that it contradicts, will your view become open, will you search elsewhere?...pls think very well b4 you answer

Good to know you are still on line.
Did you read my posts on proof of creator-ship and the beginning of creation?
I always have an open mind, but, not the type that is dogmatic and fails to see reason.
There is no way you, or anyone can proof that the bible is contradictory. The problem most times is that verses are read in isolation and with bias.
So proceed with your doubts or questions and I will endavour to provide you with answers.

Tayerulz: I'm so interested in the full history of Jesus while he was on earth...why would his youthful years be excluded? Those years were obviously the most important as it would let us know if he actually follows scientific proves of exhibiting some particular characters at the puberty/youthful ages...(Reasonable replies please)

The brevity of the record concerning his early years is because Jesus had not yet been anointed by the almighty God as “the Christ” (Mt 16:16) and had not commenced carrying out the divine assignment awaiting him. His childhood and the growing-up process, like his birth, were necessary, though incidental, means to an end. As Jesus later stated to Roman Governor Pilate: “For this I have been born, and for this I have come into the world, that I should bear witness to the truth.”—Joh 18:37.

Tayerulz: I'm so interested in the full history of Jesus while he was on earth...why would his youthful years be excluded? Those years were obviously the most important as it would let us know if he actually follows scientific proves of exhibiting some particular characters at the puberty/youthful ages...(Reasonable replies please)

His early years were not deemed as necessary in the Bible.

mkmyers45: Pure energy is the true god..

and the energy of the di.ck is the prophet

yea!! Right

[quote author=M16][/quote]

The term GOD came from men. Several extraterrestrials created our biological bodies. SEVERAL,not ONE! The bible scrolls are ways the primitive cave men could describe those advanced beings who created life on this planet.

Anyone who worships these gods is a fool