wiegraf:

It has a lot more in it, including seeds...

Hmmmm.... Where did this "lot more" come from?

Btw, you do know about the conservation of energy, yes?

Yeeeeah?

Delafruita: confusion of gargantuan proportion.if dumbos look at the earth and say 'this world is so beautiful and precise there has to be a creator" why not apply the same logic to god?who created the perfect god?

IntresTING

mkmyers45: Quantum mechanics and mainstream physics are not the same..anyway Uncertainty arises solely as a result of Matter-Wave Nature so it affects all things as it is a fundamental property of quantum systems. Every Particle exhibit both wave and particle properties.

Why do they?

mkmyers45: You cannot create what is can you?

Please detail any failed attempts that you know of.

OLAADEGBU:

Since this thread is about to be hijacked by those who don't even believe in the One and only God, and you will not answer my question, let me give you my 2 pence worth of view when a few brethren have hinted at.

We observe that everything is created out of something but I can say that God is not created out of something because God is not a thing. The mere fact that everything is created or has a beginning does not mean that God should have a creator or a beginning too.

If we insist that someone or something created God then there must have been a bigger God who created that God and a bigger, bigger God who created that bigger God who created God. Then a bigger, bigger, bigger God who created the bigger, bigger God who created the bigger, bigger God who created the bigger God who created God. This leads us to infinity - the Infinite God who lives in eternity, for eternity is the lifetime of the never dying God.

Who then is this God? He is the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. The biggest God of all. He is the creator of everything. Nothing and no one is bigger than Him. He was not created but has always existed. He is the beginning (Alpha) and the end (Omega).

This leads us to what the Bible says about Him:

"In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth" (Genesis 1:1).

God was already there at the beginning of creation as He created all things for His pleasure and glory.

So Who Created God?

By very definition, an eternal Being has always existed—nobody created Him. God is the Self-Existent One—the great "I Am" of the Bible. He is outside time; in fact, He created time. Think about it this way: everything that has a beginning requires a cause. The universe has a beginning and therefore requires a cause. But God has no beginning since He is beyond time. So God does not need a cause. There is nothing illogical about an eternal Being who has always existed even though it might be difficult to fully understand.

You might argue,

"But that means I have to accept this by faith because I can't totally understand it."

We read in the book of Hebrews:

"But without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him" (Hebrews 11:6).

What kind of faith is Christianity then? It is not blind faith as some may think. In fact, it is the evolutionists who deny the Creator who have the blind "faith." They have to believe in something (i.e., that information can arise from disorder by chance) which goes against real science.

But Christ, through the Holy Spirit, actually opens the eyes of Christians so that they can see that their faith is real. The Christian faith is a logically defensible faith. This is why the Bible makes it very clear that anyone who does not believe in God is without excuse:

"For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse" (Romans 1:20).

http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/nab/is-there-really-a-god

Deep Sight:

What? I should bury my brain simply to eat hook line and sinker the views of others?

Well you should seriously consider what experts in a field have to say especially if you're not an expert yourself.

Deep Sight:
Aside: you have not pointed out how the first premise of the CA is flawed: do things begin without causes or triggers?

Oya, say so na.

I started doing that in your extended cosmological argument here.

Deep Sight:
I am happy you have asked this question because tonite I AM OPENING a thread for you and Martian to answer some questions on TIME.

As to your question, your comrade in arms, Idehn, took a similar position, and when I opened a thread to rebutt it, he went AWOL.

Please here are my rebuttals - answer them if you will.

https://www.nairaland.com/970734/contentions-idehn-existence-god-time

I thought I'd already done something like that with you here.

Ihedinobi:

Please detail any failed attempts that you know of.

I have answered that..

Ihedinobi:

Why do they?

Re-read my post..Every Particle exhibit both wave and particle properties because its a fundamental of quantum systems and this nature has been proven beyond doubt..

OLAADEGBU:

So Who Created God?

By very definition, an eternal Being has always existed—nobody created Him. God is the Self-Existent One—the great "I Am" of the Bible. He is outside time; in fact, He created time. Think about it this way: everything that has a beginning requires a cause. The universe has a beginning and therefore requires a cause. But God has no beginning since He is beyond time. So God does not need a cause. There is nothing illogical about an eternal Being who has always existed even though it might be difficult to fully understand.

You might argue,

"But that means I have to accept this by faith because I can't totally understand it."

We read in the book of Hebrews:

"But without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him" (Hebrews 11:6).

What kind of faith is Christianity then? It is not blind faith as some may think. In fact, it is the evolutionists who deny the Creator who have the blind "faith." They have to believe in something (i.e., that information can arise from disorder by chance) which goes against real science.

But Christ, through the Holy Spirit, actually opens the eyes of Christians so that they can see that their faith is real. The Christian faith is a logically defensible faith. This is why the Bible makes it very clear that anyone who does not believe in God is without excuse:

"For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse" (Romans 1:20).

http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/nab/is-there-really-a-god

You pictures say it all.

The blind faith fool has as coloured skin, and the wise know-it-all guy is white skinned.
What is the picture trying to tell you?

mkmyers45: I have answered that..

Sorry, could you reiterate? I either missed it or misunderstood it. In any event, I didn't recognize an answer.

mkmyers45: Re-read my post..Every Particle exhibit both wave and particle properties because its a fundamental of quantum systems and this nature has been proven beyond doubt..

I think you do not get the point of my question. The question was tabled to examine the truth of the claim that the simple evolves into the complex. If that claim is true, then describing the uncertainty principle and showing why it should exist at all should not be a difficult matter.

As it is, saying that the macroscopic entities exhibit it because it is a fundamental of quantum systems does not quite say why such a principle exists at all?

Stop raping science @ihe. Math doesn't lie

http://arstechnica.com/science/2012/03/quantum-interference-with-big-molecules-approaches-the-macroscopic/

plaetton:


You pictures say it all.

The blind faith fool has as coloured skin, and the wise know-it-all guy is white skinned.
What is the picture trying to tell you?

Colour is only skin deep. Must you see everything through the prism of colours? What would you then say about the pikshure below?

Ihedinobi:

Sorry, could you reiterate? I either missed it or misunderstood it. In any event, I didn't recognize an answer.



I think you do not get the point of my question. The question was tabled to examine the truth of the claim that the simple evolves into the complex. If that claim is true, then describing the uncertainty principle and showing why it should exist at all should not be a difficult matter.

As it is, saying that the macroscopic entities exhibit it because it is a fundamental of quantum systems does not quite say why such a principle exists at all?

It does dosent it? Are you a physicist? Macroscopic wavelenghts are usually insignificant but upon breakdown to micromolecules the wave duality is visibly observable...All Bodies have wavelenght that obviously give them the duality because some phenomena occuring in a body transcends particle behaviours hence the discovery that particle and wave duality was indeed integrally interplayed eg Photoelectric effect - Photons striking a metal as particles and going off as particle/waved electrons depending on medium we can see the standing waves and the mass of an electron obviously makes it a particle.

DeeTeeMan: Guys, gbajumos and oloyes if you can try to replace what you call God with NATURE then you can see where your points (and opinions) fit-in with the global picture.

In other words, let's call the first cause, Nature. We will end up digging a deeper hole. You will encounter tougher questions like:
What is nature? What form does it possess? Does it have an awareness that it can create?
Is it self-sufficient? Etc

Kay 17:

Svience can't prove that.

@mr anony

Being God and doing what?!

Question: What was Kay 17 doing before he came on Nairaland?
Answer: Being Kay 17

Follow up Question: Being Kay 17 and doing what?
Answer: Only Kay 17 can answer that. Ask Kay 17

Mr_Anony:
Question: What was Kay 17 doing before he came on Nairaland?
Answer: Being Kay 17

Follow up Question: Being Kay 17 and doing what?
Answer: Only Kay 17 can answer that. Ask Kay 17

Yeah, on a slightly different note, what's your answer to the being issue? If god created being, then how god 'being' before he created it?

wiegraf:

Yeah, on a slightly different note, what's your answer to the being issue? If god created being, then how god 'being' before he created it?

lol, all you just succeeded in doing was play on semantics, nothing more.....and bad semantics at that. "being" is a qualifier and not a noun. It is used in describe the quality that something is. But since you are treating "being" as an object, I'll have to ask you to define "being" on it's own and not as an attribute but as a thing in its own right.
Where you cannot, we'll admit that your question is really nonsense and we'll move on.

Mr_Anony:
lol, all you just succeeded in doing was play on semantics, nothing more.....and bad semantics at that. "being" is a qualifier and not a noun. It is used in describe the quality that something is. But since you are treating "being" as an object, I'll have to ask you to define "being" on it's own and not as an attribute but as a thing in its own right.
Where you cannot, we'll admit that your question is really nonsense and we'll move on.

Existing

Cheap tricking anony is attempting cheap tricks

wiegraf:

Existing

Cheap tricking anony is attempting cheap tricks

lol, first he asks a silly question and then when it is is pointed out to him, he accuses me of cheap tricks.

if being means existing, then it is a quality of an entity and not an entity in itself. You have failed to define "being" as a thing in it's own right. We can now move on

Mr_Anony:
lol, first he asks a silly question and then when it is is pointed out to him, he accuses me of cheap tricks.

if being means existing, then it is a quality of an entity and not an entity in itself. You have failed to define "being" as a thing in it's own right. We can now move on

.

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
Hahahahahahahahahaha

Wth sort of answer is this?

wiegraf: .

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
Hahahahahahahahahaha

Wth sort of answer is this?

hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!

What sort of question was that?

Mr_Anony:
hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!

What sort of question was that?

A very valid one that you can't anony out of. So, god doesn't create qualities/properties?

wiegraf:

A very valid one that you can't anony out of. So, god doesn't create qualities/properties?

it is an invalid question. It is silly. like asking if one can do doing or speak speaking or be being or eat eating. I will have to ask you what it means to do doing.

You have only just succeeded in doing awful semantics. Don't even kid yourself that your question has any bit of intellect in it

Mr_Anony:
it is an invalid question. It is silly. like asking if one can do doing or speak speaking or be being or eat eating. I will have to ask you what it means to do doing.

You have only just succeeded in doing awful semantics. Don't even kid yourself that your question has any bit of intellect in it

Anony, you make me sad . Anytime you come across a potential wharrgarbl you start with the accusations. These are very, very valid questions. You don't like the answer does not make them silly. Your behavior exposes how weak your supposed faith is if you have to resort to these shenanigans when your sophistry fails (well, being sophistry, it's supposed to fail, sort of). I didn't attack you, I asked a valid question out of curiosity initially and you answered with your now infamous defensive 'lol'...

Now not so curious though anymore. Are you saying god did not create 'existing', yes or no?

wiegraf:

Anony, you make me sad . Anytime you come across a potential wharrgarbl you start with the accusations. These are very, very valid questions. You don't like the answer does not make them silly. Your behavior exposes how weak your supposed faith is if you have to resort to these shenanigans when your sophistry fails (well, being sophistry, it's supposed to fail, sort of). I didn't attack you, I asked a valid question out of curiosity initially and you answered with your now infamous defensive 'lol'...

Now not so curious though anymore. Are you saying god did not create 'existing', yes or no?

I don't laugh in self-defence, I laugh when I find something amusing. Of course you are not attacking me, your question is just silly and it doesn't matter how many "valids" you put before it, they don't make the silliness go away.

you still have not explained exactly what you mean by "creating existing".

If you want us to play the game of stupid semantics, I'll suggest you go find another playmate.
. . .or you can at least explain what it means to "create existing" that's if you are interested in having a sensible conversation

basic english lesson: intelligible statements come in the form of object-verb-subject. Your statement comes in the form of object-verb-verb. It is unintelligible in other words - nonsense.

Mr_Anony:

I don't laugh in self-defence, I laugh when I find something amusing. Of course you are not attacking me, your question is just silly and it doesn't matter how many "valids" you put before it, they don't make the silliness go away.

you still have not explained exactly what you mean by "creating existing".

If you want us to play the game of stupid semantics, I'll suggest you go find another playmate.
. . .or you can at least explain what it means to "create existing" that's if you are interested in having a sensible conversation

basic english lesson: intelligible statements come in the form of object-verb-subject. Your statement comes in the form of object-verb-verb. It is unintelligible in other words - nonsense.

Story story
Did god create concepts? Ultimately concepts like numbers?

Yeeeeeah!!! Give it to him, twin bro, @Mr Anony. Gee, I'm so loving this!

Ihedinobi: Yeeeeeah!!! Give it to him, twin bro, @Mr Anony. Gee, I'm so loving this!

You'll have your way with me when I'm buried. Even then I doubt that. As for now making up a sad excuse to not answer is rather pathetic. There's also....
But worry not, considering that neanderthal @vedax seems to know my real name, I am now worried that these may be the last days...

@anony

I'm badly disappointed at you. How is asking what God was doing before he created everything, during his infinite lifetime silly?! O_o oR is God unquestionable?

wiegraf:

You'll have your way with me when I'm buried. Even then I doubt that. As for now making up a sad excuse to not answer is rather pathetic. There's also....
But worry not, considering that neanderthal @vedax seems to know my real name, I am now worried that these may be the last days...

What do you mean, man?

wiegraf:

Story story
Did god create concepts? Ultimately concepts like numbers?

lol, you are beginning to sound as childish as macdaddy these days (even macdaddy is don dey grow small small).

You are still doing the same thing here. A number is an abstract used in describing entities it is not an entity by itself. You should have to tell us exactly what it means to create a number.

For instance If you ask: Did God create 4? you must tell us what it means to create 4. . . .or 4 of what?

Please do us all a favour and start asking intelligible questions

Kay 17: @anony

I'm badly disappointed at you. How is asking what God was doing before he created everything, during his infinite lifetime silly?! O_o oR is God unquestionable?

Hmm, I don't remember describing your question as silly. What are you really disappointed about?