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The 5 versions of the Arabic Koran - Islam for Muslims (5) - Nairaland

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Re: The 5 versions of the Arabic Koran by pilgrim1(f): 6:56pm On Jan 26, 2008
@luvus,

luvus:

dear babs

on a serious note, we are not denying that we don't have various versions, translations but we also want u to also accept same that MUSLIMS HAVE VERSIONS, TRANSALTIONS AND EDITIONS. then from there we can continue and we believe since we (including u muslims) have agrreed on that point, then lets continue else u have no bases to accuse the bible as confused etc

Lol. . . you try! cheesy  Honestly, I initially did not want to enter this thread and would rather have been reserved as usual anytime babs787 came up with his problems about the "translations" of the Bible.

But this same premise has to be addressed as well when it comes to the "translations" of the Qur'an - and that is what the Muslim is scared of. WHY? I don't know - but we know already how jittery they become when any reference to the translations of the Qur'an are made. That is when you find Muslim denials in full display! grin

What is the big deal about "translations" anyway - whether  translations of the Qur'an or the Bible? We know that errors in translations are bound to occur in almost any book - whether religious or secular! We know that Muslims themselves claim that any translation of the Qur'an is NOT the Qur'an anymore - is that not a worse scenario already? undecided

The one thing that we should understand here is this: anytime a Muslim comes up with this project of a dunce in seeking to attack the Bible merely on "translations", let it never move the Christian. The Muslim is too scared to find even the slightest shift of a dot in the Qur'an - and yet, we have Muslims themselves telling us that there are other versions of the Arabic Qur'an (Warsh, Qalun, al-Duri, Hisham, Hafs, etc.). Oh, they say, all these versions of the Qur'an contain "slight" sontin here or there. "Slight" koo. . . "sleight" nii! grin The moment you look at those "slight" sontins in the various translations of the same Qur'an, then wahala wey big pass "slight" go happen!

Yeye worry them all!!


Bo, when it comes to the Bible, the message is clear. It is not the "Book" that God wants us to worship - rather, He invites everyone everywhere to receive His love - freely offered in Jesus Christ!! I am still looking at over 108 English versions (which are merely TRANSLATIONS) of the Bible - and I have not come across any one of them which denies the fact that Jesus' death and resurrection brings us salvation!! The day God touched my heart with His saving grace, I wondered what I had been doing in Islam all my life and denying the very grace that would save me!!

But then God today. . . The Bible may be accused of all sorts of things, BUT (a huge "BUT"wink. . . the message that God has given us in the Bible about His love and grace are NOT abrogated, substituted or omitted!! grin

The Qur'an can remain an abrogated book for all I care! Let them abrogate everything sef - what is my worry? One thing I know is that none of Muhammad's abrogating abrogations in the abrogated book called the Qur'an can actually abrogate the love of my Saviour, Jesus Christ! QED!! grin
Re: The 5 versions of the Arabic Koran by osisi5: 12:32am On Jan 28, 2008
Another interesting thread is coming up.
To quell the Muslim lies just like this thread has beautifully done.
Oya make una read am.
Re: The 5 versions of the Arabic Koran by osisi5: 12:48am On Jan 28, 2008
Just another reminder for those who missed it.

the Quran by the time of the third Caliph, already had variations in the text, which required immediate repair. Therefore, all the copies of the Quran throughout the Muslim empire were collected, burned and replaced with a standardized version of the Quran. This demonstrates point demonstrates not all Qurans were the same, there was a point in time when the various Qurans were different.

The current version of the Arabic Quran, is the Quran distributed by Uthman, to the various parts of the Muslim world, after the earlier versions were collected and burned.


http://www.truthnet.org/islam/Islam-Bible/2thequran/TheQuran.htm
Re: The 5 versions of the Arabic Koran by olabowale(m): 9:22am On Jan 28, 2008
Pilgrim,

Since all these different versions of Bibles on the earth today do not agree with each other.

The Catholic Bible (based on the Latin Vulgate of the fourth century) has 73 books, while the Protestant Bible (one thousand years later) only has 66 books. Which one? The new one (66 books)? Or the old one (73 books)?

Thats what we call versions and not mere singular and plural Differences that don't change anything.

If you can point out a version which have one or more sura then we can talk or discuss better.
Re: The 5 versions of the Arabic Koran by luvus: 1:44pm On Jan 28, 2008
@pilgrim

Bo, when it comes to the Bible, the message is clear. It is not the "Book" that God wants us to worship - rather, He invites everyone everywhere to receive His love - freely offered in Jesus Christ!! I am still looking at over 108 English versions (which are merely TRANSLATIONS) of the Bible - and I have not come across any one of them which denies the fact that Jesus' death and resurrection brings us salvation!! The day God touched my heart with His saving grace, I wondered what I had been doing in Islam all my life and denying the very grace that would save me!!

i gree wel wel and may God Continually open our eyes and thiers too,

@ola

did u not read my post?? here it is again
dear babs

on a serious note, we are not denying that we don't have various versions, translations but we also want u to also accept same that MUSLIMS HAVE VERSIONS, TRANSALTIONS AND EDITIONS. then from there we can continue and we believe since we (including u muslims) have agrreed on that point, then lets continue else u have no bases to accuse the bible as confused etc

so stop recycling questions, remember osisi or is it pilgrim showed u that in the koran major differences abound in version of the koran. pls stop bab[/b]bling and just say in plain words [b]YES WE HAVE VARIOUS VERSIONS, TRANSALTIONS, EDITIONS OF THE KORAN SHIKAANAn else all u requesting for doesnt arise
Re: The 5 versions of the Arabic Koran by pilgrim1(f): 1:58pm On Jan 28, 2008
Dear olabowale,

Thanks for your comments.

As you may well recall, the sole reason why I entered this thread to discuss anything was to dispel the Muslim argument based merely on translations of the Bible. We all know that translations are bound to have their problems, and it doesn't have to be only with the Bible - which was why we had to examine the same inference by looking at translations of the Qur'an.

In the same way, one may come across various "versions" of a particular translation. This is the reason why we have such various versions in the English translations of the Bible like the KJV (King James Version), the ASV (American Standard Version) and the NIV (New International Version). These versions do not necessarily mean that the BIBLE itself is wrong, corrupt, or perverted - they only demonstrate the effort of the translators of the Bible so more English speakers may be able to better understand the Biblical message.

What about editions of the Bible? Of course, there are as many editions of such translations. For instance, we have the KJV in several editions - from the KJV of 1611 to the other editions of the same KJV (the editions of 1629, 1638, 1762, and 1769). Again, it does not mean that these various editions of the KJV render the Bible itself to be a "corrupt" Book!

Now look carefully again: there are -

       ~ translations

       ~ versions, and

       ~ editions

. . . and we have to very carefully understand what we mean by these terms. The problem with Muslim apologists is that they often seek to maliciously attack the message of the Bible by basing the attacks merely on "translations, versions, and editions" of the Bible. Christians have never at anytime denied that there are translations, versions and editions of the Bible; but we have constantly read how Muslims try to deny that there are "translations, versions, and editions" of the Qur'an as well!! Why would Muslims be engaged in such unfruitful exercises?
Re: The 5 versions of the Arabic Koran by pilgrim1(f): 2:14pm On Jan 28, 2008
Lol. . . my connection has been slow; but we are getting there anyhow.

@olabowale,

Continuing with what I tried to distinguish above, I would like you to understand that it is quite unfair for Muslims to keep attacking the Bible based merely on the translations, versions and editions that are available today in many languages.

Before I left Islam and became a Christian, these unfair attacks were the propaganda tools of Muslim apologists that prevented me from reading the Bible for myself. But when I discovered to my chagrin that most Muslim scholars were deliberately misrepresenting facts as well as not being honest in what they taught Muslims, that was the day I resolved to pick up the Bible and read for myself. I'm sure that these same propaganda tools are responsible for the reason why multiplied millions of Muslims have never sought to read the Bible for themselves and find out what it truly says - which is why we understand your misconceptions when you try to argue out your case.

At any rate, we should understand that the Qur'an as well has been produced in many translations, versions and editions. What is far more unfortunate is that the inconsistencies and errors are far more multiplied in translations, versions and editions of the Qur'an - and I only used that example of Sura 2 v 138 as a very minor case in point! It is not my style to deliberately seek to hurt the feelings of people (since the last time you and I had a chat on YIM, I have learnt my lessons enough). Otherwise, I'm sure many Muslims would have been left so embarrassed if I used the more serious errors and inconsistencies of the translations, versions and editions of the Qur'an.

My point in all this is simple: Muslims should end their deliberate and callous attacks on the Bible based merely on a matter of translations, versions and editions. . . for there as far more serious inconsistencies in the b]translations, versions[/b] and editions of the QUR'AN!! Because not many people understand the distinction between these matters, that was why I entered the discussion of this thread to dispel the unnecessary argument on these issues that Muslims have been propagating.
Re: The 5 versions of the Arabic Koran by pilgrim1(f): 2:56pm On Jan 28, 2008
@olabowale,

On the other hand, I will not pretend to not have noticed the other issue you raised - and it may only be fair for me to comment on it.

The discrepancies between the Catholic Bible and the one used by Protestants are well noted - we cannot pretend about that issue. I've come a long way (since becoming a Christian) to look at the real issue in that regard; and my findings are simply that the "apocrypha" (14 books included in the Vulgate [except for II Esdras]) have never in history been regarded as part of the Canon of Scripture by godly Jews! That is a huge case to consider, because we can understand that the Catholic Church paticularly favours the Vulgate - and I have demonstrated much earlier that there are serious problems related to the Vulgate!

Let's understand that the "Vulgate" is also a translation of the Bible; it is the Latin edition of the Bible translated from Hebrew and Greek by St. Jerome at the end of the 4th century. It was also revised in 1592 and consequently adopted as the official text for the Roman Catholic Church.

It is remarkable to note that the many deliberate distortions in both the Vulgate and the other translations derived from it do not represent the Biblical message faithfully. Again, an example that I have pointed out and repeated in another thread to clear this misconception:


[list]Now a word as to translations of the Bible. It is important that we understand the revelation of God in His WORD as He has given it. Translations in many instances do not convey the accurate reading of the texts in their original languages - and we have seen this time and again.

The fact that even the Catholic Church has not been satisfied with a single English translation of the Bible is the reason why she has sponsored several translations in English - including the New American Bible (NAB, 1970), the Jerusalem Bible, JB 1966 [which was subsequently revised to produce the New Jerusalem Bible, NJB 1985), the Douay-Rheims (DRB, 1582-1610), and the Challoner-Rheims (1752, a revision of the DRB) which heavily reflect Roman Catholic slant of doctrines than fidelity to the Biblical texts.[/list]

Let me give you an example. In Genesis 3:15 of the Doauy-Rheims (Catholic) version, we read the following:

"I will put enmities between thee and the woman,
and thy seed and her seed:
SHE shall crush thy head,
and thou shalt lie in wait for her heel." [Douay-Rheims]

Now compare this with a common translation such as the ASV on the same verse:

"and I will put enmity between thee and the woman,
and between thy seed and her seed:
HE shall bruise thy head,
and thou shalt bruise his heel." [American Standard Version]

It is not merely a matter of semantics that we should be concerned with here. Rather, what the Douay-Rheims version says is radically different from what we find in the ASV. While the latter (ASV) teaches that it is the seed of the woman that would crush/bruise the head of the serpent, the Catholic Douay-Rheims says that it is rather the woman herself that would vanquish the serpent. The basic question here would be: WHO does Scripture say would defeat the enemy - the woman (MARY) or the Seed (CHRIST)?

Of course, we know certainly that Genesis 3:15 clearly teaches that it is the Seed (CHRIST) that would bruise the head of the serpent - i.e., destroy him (see Gal. 4:4 and Heb. 2:14). Even the Catholic Popes and Bishops cannot deny this truth - for in one of the Homilies of Pope John Paul II [Sunday, 2 February 1997] as an example, he acknowledged this fact indeed in the following quote:

[center][list][list]
'In that 40-day-old infant it sees the “light” destined to illumine the nations, and presents HIM as the “glory” of the people of Israel (cf. Lk 2:32). It is HIM who must conquer death, as the Letter to the Hebrews proclaims, explaining the mystery of the Incarnation and Redemption: “Since therefore the children share in flesh and blood, he himself likewise partook of the same nature” (Heb 2:14), having taken on human nature.'
[/list][/list][/center]
. . .read more here



You see, what is perculiar to the Catholic Church does not actually mean that is the way God had intended it. The Vulgate is NOT the same thing as the original manuscripts of the Bible in Hebrew, Aramaic and Greek!

One simple way of trying to understand the difference between the "apocrypha" and the Bible is this: just think of the argument between the Sunnis and Shiites on the completeness and incompleteness of the Qur'an!!

Well, I hope you can see the point of this whole argument? My point here has been just one thing all along: Muslims should end their attacks on the Bible merely on translations, versions and editions. There are as many "translations, versions and editions" of the Qur'an as well - and where some are trying to deny the fact, we have seen again and again that such denials are inconsequential.

Cheers.
Re: The 5 versions of the Arabic Koran by pilgrim1(f): 3:04pm On Jan 28, 2008
@luvus,

luvus:

@pilgrim

. . .

i gree wel wel and may God Continually open our eyes and thiers too,

Amen O. . . cheesy MAny blessings.
Re: The 5 versions of the Arabic Koran by olabowale(m): 5:02pm On Jan 28, 2008
FIRST I JUST WANT TO SAY TO YOU, +OSISI THAT THIS IS MY FIRST ENTRY,TODAY. IT DOES NOT MATTER WHAT IS ON THE SCREEN AS EARLIER ENTRIES BY ME, TODAY. IT WAS NOT ME. I HAVE CLOSED SOME DOORS AND I WILL NOT REOPEN THEM. INSHAALLAH. WHOEVER USES MY NAME SHOULD STOP USING IT.

@+Osisi:
Quote
the Quran by the time of the third Caliph, already had variations in the text, which required immediate repair. Therefore, all the copies of the Quran throughout the Muslim empire were collected, burned and replaced with a standardized version of the Quran. This demonstrates point demonstrates not all Qurans were the same, there was a point in time when the various Qurans were different.

The current version of the Arabic Quran, is the Quran distributed by Uthman, to the various parts of the Muslim world, after the earlier versions were collected and burned.
+Osisi! The Mouth of Ameeboh, does not bleed! But thats just by the way. In your condition, I need to be gentle with you. As I read your entry above, it is important to point out all the 'Chunnel size' holes in it:

(a) There is only One Book Bind form of Qur'an commissioned by the First Caliphah, Abu Bakr. This only Complete Qur'an in Binded Book form was in the custodial hand of Hafsat; one of the Surviving wives of the Messenger. She was also the daughter of Umar Khattab, who became the second Caliphah, succeeding Abu Bakr. This single 'Complete Qur'an,' was never used not once, during Abu Bakr Caliphate after it was it was placed in the hand of Hafsah> Pay attention that Abu Bakr did not make Aisha, is daughter the custodian.

(b) It was not recorded that in the caliphate, Umar Khattab, the second Caliphah, once required the the custodian, his daughter Hafsah, to bring out the Qur'an for any single usage.

We must know and take into account that the tens of thousands of companionswere still alive, and each memorized as much of all the revelations, the Qur'an in degree of individual capability. For example, it many years for Umah Khattab to memorize Surah baqarah.

(c) Now we come to the caliphate of Uthman Affan. The third caliphah. We see that when this Kalifah decided to make the many Mushaf(s), based on tone and accent of recitations, he had to request from Hafsat, the custodian of the 'Qur'an,' who is the daughter of Umar his predecessor, his own mother by the virtue that she is a wife of the Prophet, to relaese the Qur'an in her possession, for the benefit of the Muslim Ummah.

It was this Qur'an and the reconfirmation of each ayah, by any and all who has a copy of that ayah, on one hand and recitaions of the ayah on another hand. So what you have is a master piece, the single book bind Qur'an, from the time of Abu Bakr. Then in support are the copies of the ayah written down. Finally in support are those people who have committed the ayah into memory, reciting it, in the style(s) they memorised it in.

Please where in the world did you get, the variations in the Qur'an up to this point, that the texts have to be repaired? Remember you claimed above that there are flaws and needed to be corrected by the time of Uthman, the third Kalifah. But just before he made the many mushaf(s), which he made, there was just that single Qur'an in book bind fronm the time of Abu Bakr! Was Uthman correcting that One or using it to write the 5 Mushafs based on the seats of Islam, at that time? Talk +Osisi! Sometime i just have to be a little bit gruff and "ruff," with you. You are not a tender meat at all. Woman, how many "Qur'ans" in the Muslim world at that time when Uthman became the Kalifah? How large was the Muslim world? I can see that you changed to "standardized Version," so that you can get out of what you accused the Qur'an of, in the first place. All of a sudden there is only one 'VERSION,' of the Qur'an now, trying so hard to equate it with your Bible? No lady, it is impossible to do that! Qur'an is on a higher plane than any document! Liar, liar skirt/dress on fire!

After the 5 Mushafs, the patchments or remants which were used were collected and burnt! After the Qur'an texts have been written down to accomodate at least the accents of th 5 major places, what would the parchments be serving with the Muslims? You can have any good answer to this Question, +Osisi! Is this the destruction you and your type have been accusing the muslims about? Shame on you if it is! You guys should have done the same with your "Injil, ' then you will not end up with Lost and or Corrupted Injiil.

I will address the lost part soon, the corrupted part is already been explained many time. But I can give you a quick explanation, what corruption is, using Akpu (the Yorubas will write it Apuu). (Variations, but pronounciation is very similar and they mean the same thing). See your fault laid to bare? I will use Ogboonoh soup, in this case. There is a standard recipe that is known by the Igbos. Let just say that a 'neuvou,' Igbo woman or man decided to cook 'Ogboonoh' soup with a slight twist, maybe the lenght of time for each ingredient to be added is compromised and or, very essentially, change the ingredient list (recipe), from what is known, addition here and there, for example add some pureed Okra (afterall they are both slimy) and some others, or take out whatever he or she didn't like from the 'Standard' Ogboonoh recipe. Now when this new Ogboonoh soup is made, it can even be tasty and have flavor to a person, who is not familiar with the 'classical standard Ogbonor' soup. But it will never pass for the true Ogbonoor soup. Your present Bible, indeed the Bible from the time that it wa revealed in the Qur'an that your Bible is already tampered with (Corrupted), and all the way to the last man on earth, will always be this fake 'Ogbonor soup,' whereas the standard classical recipe for Ogbonoh soup by the Old time Igbo mother is the in line with 'True revelation in the time of that prophet who was given the revelation; Torah, (Torat,etc), Sabur (sabor, Sabuur, etc) and Injil (Injiil,etc).

I was talking to a person from Aku Tribe in Sierra Lione, this morning when I was told that Aku people speak Yoruba language. Of course, curiously I asked that some Yoruba be spoken so that I hear it. Knowing full well, that Language is purest when it is communicated Orally , it was not a shock to me when the fellow said Ekaaro (good morning in Yoruba), but wrote it down as Ekaro. Then I ask what is good night and I heard (Odaaro, a Yoruba word that I am familiar with), but when the Aku fellow wrote it down as "ODARU," the light went on in my head: Subhanallah: Good night was pronounced very clearly in the local accent, but writing down was another thing from a Yoruba perspective! You see where am going with this?

When you guys, the non Muslims are saying that Qur'an in Arabic language has "versions,' you do not take into considerations, that Muhammad (AS), himself who the Qur'an was revealed upon, did not have to know how to read or write in the process of memorisation of the Qur'an. Infact he was known as the "Unlettered," prophet! His followers (Me and all Muslims are referred to as unlettered as well, regardless of individual matriculations).

If you noticed, I have deliberately wrote Caliphah, Kalifah, different spelling, same pronounciation of the same word! I have also wrote Ogboonor, Ogbonoh, etc to give you visual differences of the SOUP that is eaten by many, but maybe more common with Igbo tribe, to illustrate that in oral tradition, which is what Qur'an is, especially when there are many styles of recitations, the regional spelling may be diffrerent, from place to place, but the pronounciation is the same, barring the accent: Thats why a person who learn the Qur'an by using Hafs style of Qur'an writing can read the Warsh as well.

When I have the time i will address your lost Bible (Torah/Taurat/Toorah/Toorat, Sabur/Sabuur/sabuor, and Injil/Injiil/Injjil, etc), on the relevant thread.


I EVEN WROTE AMEBO, differently. This is deliberate and anyone see it. But amebo is pronounced the same way regardless of how many ways it can be written.
Re: The 5 versions of the Arabic Koran by pilgrim1(f): 6:24pm On Jan 28, 2008
@olabowale,

olabowale:

FIRST I JUST WANT TO SAY TO YOU, +OSISI THAT THIS IS MY FIRST ENTRY,TODAY. IT DOES NOT MATTER WHAT IS ON THE SCREEN AS EARLIER ENTRIES BY ME, TODAY. IT WAS NOT ME. I HAVE CLOSED SOME DOORS AND I WILL NOT REOPEN THEM. INSHAALLAH. WHOEVER USES MY NAME SHOULD STOP USING IT.

Just one small matter: the post #131 in this thread was made by olabowale - when? TODAY. If that post was not made by you, can you explain what it is doing in your personal profile page? undecided

There is only one olabowale on Nairaland - there are not two of them. Claiming it is not you will not make up for the excuses you later reposted to cover up the issue about the various versions of the Qur'an.

All the same, we are (or should I say rather "I am"wink willing to believe your claim about post #131 not made by olabowale TODAY. It is not such a big issue. The crux of the matter here is simply this: the case of the Muslim denials about the "translations, versions and editions" of the Qur'an has been laid to rest. wink
Re: The 5 versions of the Arabic Koran by Nobody: 7:07pm On Jan 28, 2008
Pilgrim,

Since all these different versions of Bibles on the earth today do not agree with each other.

The Catholic Bible (based on the Latin Vulgate of the fourth century) has 73 books, while the Protestant Bible (one thousand years later) only has 66 books. Which one? The new one (66 books)? Or the old one (73 books)?

Thats what we call versions and not mere singular and plural Differences that don't change anything.

If you can point out a version which have one or more sura then we can talk or discuss better.
Re: The 5 versions of the Arabic Koran by pilgrim1(f): 9:23pm On Jan 28, 2008
Hi again @mdsocks,

mdsocks:

Pilgrim,

Since all these different versions of Bibles on the earth today do not agree with each other.

The Catholic Bible (based on the Latin Vulgate of the fourth century) has 73 books, while the Protestant Bible (one thousand years later) only has 66 books. Which one? The new one (66 books)? Or the old one (73 books)?

Thats what we call versions and not mere singular and plural Differences that don't change anything.

If you can point out a version which have one or more sura then we can talk or discuss better.

I don't know how this happened; but I'm assuming that this is the same thing offered by "olabowale" earlier? undecided I've also addressed the same here: (https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-107465.128.html#msg1895381).

Regards.
Re: The 5 versions of the Arabic Koran by luvus: 8:20am On Jan 29, 2008
@hi olabolwale

[b](a) There is only One Book Bind form of Qur'an commissioned by the First Caliphah, Abu Bakr. This only Complete Qur'an in Binded Book form was in the custodial hand of Hafsat; one of the Surviving wives of the Messenger. She was also the daughter of Umar Khattab, who became the second Caliphah, succeeding Abu Bakr. This single 'Complete Qur'an,' was never used not once, during Abu Bakr Caliphate after it was it was placed in the hand of Hafsah> Pay attention that Abu Bakr did not make Aisha, is daughter the custodian.

(b) It was not recorded that in the caliphate, Umar Khattab, the second Caliphah, once required the the custodian, his daughter Hafsah, to bring out the Qur'an for any single usage.

We must know and take into account that the tens of thousands of companionswere still alive, and each memorized as much of all the revelations, the Qur'an in degree of individual capability. For example, it many years for Umah Khattab to memorize Surah baqarah.

(c) Now we come to the caliphate of Uthman Affan. The third caliphah. We see that when this Kalifah decided to make the many Mushaf(s), based on tone and accent of recitations, he had to request from Hafsat, the custodian of the 'Qur'an,' who is the daughter of Umar his predecessor, his own mother by the virtue that she is a wife of the Prophet, to relaese the Qur'an in her possession, for the benefit of the Muslim Ummah.

It was this Qur'an and the reconfirmation of each ayah, by any and all who has a copy of that ayah, on one hand and recitaions of the ayah on another hand. So what you have is a master piece, the single book bind Qur'an, from the time of Abu Bakr. Then in support are the copies of the ayah written down. Finally in support are those people who have committed the ayah into memory, reciting it, in the style(s) they memorised it in.[/b]

where are you referencing from? give us so we can verify what u say
Re: The 5 versions of the Arabic Koran by RichyBlacK(m): 8:30am On Jan 29, 2008
See live action for here o! Chei, I don miss plenty shoot and kill. grin
Re: The 5 versions of the Arabic Koran by RichyBlacK(m): 8:39am On Jan 29, 2008
mdsocks:

Pilgrim,

Since all these different versions of Bibles on the earth today do not agree with each other.

The Catholic Bible (based on the Latin Vulgate of the fourth century) has 73 books, while the Protestant Bible (one thousand years later) only has 66 books. Which one? The new one (66 books)? Or the old one (73 books)?

Thats what we call versions and not mere singular and plural Differences that don't change anything.

If you can point out a version which have one or more sura then we can talk or discuss better.



@mdsocks,

point of correction, unlike the Qu'ran, which is a book, the Bible is a collection of books. The books of the Bible, are all important. What you're pointing at is as a result of the schisms and reformations that the Church has undergone.

Both the Qu'ran and the Bible have gone through some level of changes.
Re: The 5 versions of the Arabic Koran by olabowale(m): 3:23pm On Jan 29, 2008
@ola
did u not read my post?? here it is again
dear babs

on a serious note, we are not denying that we don't have various versions, translations but we also want u to also accept same that MUSLIMS HAVE VERSIONS, TRANSALTIONS AND EDITIONS. then from there we can continue and we believe since we (including u muslims) have agrreed on that point, then lets continue else u have no bases to accuse the bible as confused etc

so stop recycling questions, remember osisi or is it pilgrim showed u that in the koran major differences abound in version of the koran. please stop babbling and just say in plain words YES WE HAVE VARIOUS VERSIONS, TRANSALTIONS, EDITIONS OF THE KORAN SHIKAANAn else all u requesting for doesnt arise
You are so naive. Qur'an is in Pure Arabic. That is stated in Surah Yusuf. Go and read it and get educated. Qur'an is an ORAL document! So in English word, Writing down an Oral document does not really make it a written document. Even in Yoruba language, we have many ways of writing Segun, or Shegun! You see, since you never had a single inkling of whats in your ORIGINAL BIBLE, your trying to bring Qur'an down to the level of your 'Corrupt or Lost' Book is useless. Before King James Commissioned his Bible, what were the 'Christians' using? Go back that far and get that to me, before I begin to lead you back to the truth, InshaAllah.

I w2ill immediately ask you to go and find me a Greek language Bible, that was in Circulation before KJV ever commissioned. Then if you can find that, I will tell you to go and find the Bible in the Roman Language before the Greek Language Version was ever commissioned. When you find that, I will send you to go get me Aramaic or Hebrew Bible, both semitic languages, what the tribes of those Bible Prophets spoke: eg Moses for his Torah, David for his Sabur and jesus for his Injil. Finally, I will ask you, was there any Torah, Sabur, and or Injil, before the Bible writers were 'Inspired?'

You have aBig Job ahead of you, Mister. Come on, get to it!
Re: The 5 versions of the Arabic Koran by pilgrim1(f): 3:36pm On Jan 29, 2008
olabowale:

You are so naive. Qur'an is in Pure Arabic. That is stated in Surah Yusuf. Go and read it and get educated.

Oga, which one is "pure" Arabic again between all the "Warsh, Qalun, al-Duri, Hisham, Hafs" Qurans, etc?   grin  And which one is "pure Arabic" as distinct from Muhammad's dialect (of the Quraish tribe)? Just because the editors of the Qur'an tell you that it is "pure Arabic" does not bring you any closer to your being educated on the issue.

olabowale:

I w2ill immediately ask you to go and find me a Greek language Bible, that was in Circulation before KJV ever commissioned.

Your request will be obliged as soon as Muslims stop deceiving themselves and produce 'Allah's' lost Torah and Injil. wink
Re: The 5 versions of the Arabic Koran by olabowale(m): 3:50pm On Jan 29, 2008
@Luvus:
where are you referencing from? give us so we can verify what u say
Read the Introduction to the Science of Qur'an, by Jamal Garabbozo. Read the History of the the Kalifahs: Abu Bakr, Umar Khattab and Uthman Affan. They are available on the Internet. Or you can buy the books, in most Islamic Bookstores, unless you live in the Boomduck, there is one near you! I hope you have the strength to get it and the conviction to read.
Re: The 5 versions of the Arabic Koran by pilgrim1(f): 4:09pm On Jan 29, 2008
olabowale:

@Luvus: Read the Introduction to the Science of Qur'an, by Jamal Garabbozo. Read the History of the the Kalifahs: Abu Bakr, Umar Khattab and Uthman Affan.

How do the above recommendations help excuse the versions of the Qur'an?
Re: The 5 versions of the Arabic Koran by osisi5: 7:04pm On Jan 30, 2008
I wonder
Re: The 5 versions of the Arabic Koran by away4real(m): 9:02pm On Jan 30, 2008
olabowale:


After the 5 Mushafs, the patchments or remants which were used were collected and burnt! After the Qur'an texts have been written down to accomodate at least the accents of th 5 major places, what would the parchments be serving with the Muslims? You can have any good answer to this Question, +Osisi! Is this the destruction you and your type have been accusing the muslims about? Shame on you if it is! You guys should have done the same with your "Injil, ' then you will not end up with Lost and or Corrupted Injiil.


@ Wale you really are a nutcase, so the versions are different keys (ref to misical key notes  grin) of the Koran. Your piece on ogbono and pounded yam is just dam lame, in addittion the Hafsat woman stroy is just pathetic reminds me of tales by moon light.

Point is simple the more u try and cloud it the clearer it is. You have stated that there are different keys,tones, ascent of the Koran. Since its not one, its a version another ascent, another key. Geezz what wont i read on naira land.

The fact that i don't have to learn Hebrew, Greek or whatever and that the life transforming power of the bible is not tied to a language of men actually tells much of the authenticity. No matter how hard men try to distort the message, the bible has only become clearer, its all about the spirit, which the Koran offers little about.

Alternatively on the christain end we are glad of the many translations and versions, it makes it clearer. I was once told by a learned lady that every reported speech is distorted, that the only reported book in human history that is yet distorted is the bible, don't you know its the best selling book of all time.

On a lighter note, i have a friend named hafsat, i will start calling her mohammeds wife, am sure she will kill me. cheesy
Re: The 5 versions of the Arabic Koran by osisi5: 9:21pm On Jan 30, 2008
away4real:

@ Wale you really are a nutcase, so the versions are different keys (ref to misical key notes grin) of the Koran. Your piece on ogbono and pounded yam is just dam lame, in addittion the Hafsat woman stroy is just pathetic reminds me of tales by moon light.

Point is simple the more u try and cloud it the clearer it is. You have stated that there are different keys,tones, ascent of the Koran. Since its not one, its a version another ascent, another key. Geezz what wont i read on naira land.

The fact that i don't have to learn Hebrew, Greek or whatever and that the life transforming power of the bible is not tied to a language of men actually tells much of the authenticity. No matter how hard men try to distort the message, the bible has only become clearer, its all about the spirit, which the Koran offers little about.

Alternatively on the christain end we are glad of the many translations and versions, it makes it clearer. I was once told by a learned lady that every reported speech is distorted, that the only reported book in human history that is yet distorted is the bible, don't you know its the best selling book of all time.

On a lighter note, i have a friend named hafsat, i will start calling her mohammeds wife, am sure she will kill me. cheesy


Please No
He's our in law
Re: The 5 versions of the Arabic Koran by olabowale(m): 9:42pm On Jan 30, 2008
@+Osisi:
I wonder
lol/rofl. I finally got the lingo of the hip people/the generation next?!  So sisi, you kept me waiting last night, how dare you? Thats my nigerian man coming up! Let me talk to your brother, away4real!

@ Wale you really are a nutcase, so the versions are different keys (ref to misical key notes  ) of the Koran. Your piece on ogbono and pounded yam is just dam lame, in addittion the Hafsat woman stroy is just pathetic reminds me of tales by moon light.
If I did not know you are not from my family, I would have thought that you are my big brother. Thats just going by the 'wale,' you called me! I see you tend to be so familiar with me. But I do not want it to be too familiar. I am at arm length from you. But did not get it, my drift that it, since I did not put 3 heads for 1 head, you see. The rest of your thought is puff!

Point is simple  the more u try and cloud it the clearer it is. You have stated that there are different keys,tones, ascent of the Koran. Since its not one, its a version another ascent, another key. Geezz what wont i read on naira land.
Big time liar you are: Segun, Shegun, is pronounced the same way. My great grandmother knew how to pronounce it. She did not know how to read it, now to write it (ra)! However, you can say the same about your Bible? If you can tell me in what language and get ready, to demostrate your ability because InshaAllah, I will be in Nigeria, in March. And I will wager 1 Million USD, cash or in any form of payment that you want it. I will put it on the table, and let you go for it. But I have to warn you, no 419 gimmick, because I will defend my treasury, hard!

But me, a Muslim, will read the Qur'an, in Arabia, the language in which it is revealed. Now what language is your Bible, revealed again? Thats what I thought, you have never seen it in that language! You have been taken in, by KJV!

The fact that i don't have to learn Hebrew, Greek or whatever and that the life transforming power of the bible is not tied to a language of men actually tells much of the authenticity. No matter how hard men try to distort the message, the bible has only become clearer, its all about the spirit, which the Koran offers little about.
Go ask the Buhdists, Taoists, Shintoists and Hinduists, etc, will say the same thing you have said about 'life transforming power!' The unfortunate thing is that you do not realise that regardless of how you slice it, he ultimate success is in the day of Judgement. But you will know your position, when at the point of death, your reality sets in. But it will be too late.

Alternatively on the christain end we are glad of the many translations and versions, it makes it clearer. I was once told by a learned lady that every reported speech is distorted, that the only reported book in human history that is yet distorted is the bible, don't you know its the best selling book of all time.
Since a complete fool is born around the clock, and others in different degree are born in shorter time span, every day, it is no wonder you have a single book with so many versions in the same language, selling like hot cakes to the gullibles! I wonder if I can talk The old man Chinua Achebe to allow many versions of his master piece in English, so that he can get more royalty!

[[quote]On a lighter note, i have a friend named hafsat, i will start calling her mohammeds wife, am sure she will kill me.
Believe me if she is a Muslim and understands that you have honored her, your death will be from another hand, and not from her! But when your death truly comes, there is no way to escape it or delay it for a moment!

@Osisi: Don't worry about what away4real said. Am in a cheery mood. Am laugh at his temperament!


[/quote]
Re: The 5 versions of the Arabic Koran by pilgrim1(f): 9:48pm On Jan 30, 2008
away4real:

I was once told by a learned lady that every reported speech is distorted, that the only reported book in human history that is yet distorted is the bible, don't you know its the best selling book of all time.


Okay, I repent. When I heard from a close friend's chum that the Bible is the best selling book of ALL time, I was like. . . 'this guy is overstating things!' But I've been hearing and reading that statement ever so frequently that I decided to check several sources to ascertain whether that was an unbiased claim from neutral investigators and pollers. The following results confirm the case for me:

From Wikipedia List of best-selling single-volume books:

#1. Bible | Approximate sales: 5 to 6 Billion
reference cited:
The Top 10 of Everything 2002 by Russell Ash


#2. 毛主席语录 Máo-zhǔxí yǔlù | Approximate sales: 900 million

reference cited:
The Top 10 of Everything 2002 by Russell Ash

#3. القرآن ‎(The Qur'an) | Approximate sales: 800 million

- - - - - - - - - - - - -

[url=http://home.comcast.net/~antaylor1/bestsellingbooks.html]Another source[/url] posts the Russell Ash reference on its website with the first two listing (#1. The Bible; and #2. Máo-zhǔxí yǔlù), but does not feature the Qur'an.

I wonder why even the BookSeller World website does the same as above and does not feature the Qur'an!

The same listing in reverse order was carried by the Book Worm Search website, without listing the Qur'an.

Comparing the Wikipedia listing, one would see that the Bible tops the Qur'an six times over! And that's not an "abrogated" listing!


- - - - - -

The other day when someone was talking about the number of languages the Qur'an has been translated into, I stumbled across this listing from Wikipedia as well:

#1. The Bible - 2, 426 languages

#2. Pinocchio - 260, > 200 languages

#5. Qur'an - 102 languages


As for the Wikipedia "The 100 Most Influential Books Ever Written", the Jewish Scripture (Torah) ranks #1 on that list; the New Testament ranks #18; while the Qur'an comes behind as #26.
Re: The 5 versions of the Arabic Koran by olabowale(m): 10:03pm On Jan 30, 2008
@+Osisi:
I wonder
lol/rofl. I finally got the lingo of the hip people/the generation next?!  So sisi, you kept me waiting last night, how dare you? Thats my nigerian man coming up! Let me talk to your brother, away4real!

@ Wale you really are a nutcase, so the versions are different keys (ref to misical key notes  ) of the Koran. Your piece on ogbono and pounded yam is just dam lame, in addittion the Hafsat woman stroy is just pathetic reminds me of tales by moon light.

If I did not know you are not from my family, I would have thought that you are my big brother. Thats just going by the 'wale,' you called me! I see you tend to be so familiar with me. But I do not want us to be this familiar. I am at arm length from you. But did not get it, my drift that it, since I did not put 3 heads for 1 head, you see? The rest of your thought is puff!

Point is simple  the more u try and cloud it the clearer it is. You have stated that there are different keys,tones, ascent of the Koran. Since its not one, its a version another ascent, another key. Geezz what wont i read on naira land.

Big time liar you are: Segun, Shegun, is pronounced the same way. So is favor favour, flavor or flavour, color or colour, (Suprisingly, schedule is pronounced differently in North America from the Brits (The Colonisers). My great grandmother knew how to pronounce Segun/Shegun. She did not know how to read it, or to write it (ra)! However, you can say the same about your Bible? If you can tell me in what language you will demostrate it, then get ready, because InshaAllah, I will be in Nigeria, in March. And I will wager 1 Million USD, cash or in any form of payment that you want it. I will put it on the table, and let you go for it. But I have to warn you, no 419 gimmick, because I will defend my treasury, hard!

But me, a Muslim, will read the Qur'an, in Arabia, the language in which it is revealed. Now what language is your Bible, revealed in again? Thats what I thought, you have never seen it in that language! You have been taken in, by KJV!

The fact that i don't have to learn Hebrew, Greek or whatever and that the life transforming power of the bible is not tied to a language of men actually tells much of the authenticity. No matter how hard men try to distort the message, the bible has only become clearer, its all about the spirit, which the Koran offers little about.

Go ask the Buhdists, Taoists, Shintoists and Hinduists, etc, will say the same thing you have said about 'life transforming power!' The unfortunate thing is that you do not realise that regardless of how you slice it, the ultimate success is on the day of Judgement. But you will know your position, when at the point of death, your reality sets in. But it will be too late.

Alternatively on the christain end we are glad of the many translations and versions, it makes it clearer. I was once told by a learned lady that every reported speech is distorted, that the only reported book in human history that is yet distorted is the bible, don't you know its the best selling book of all time.

Since a complete fool is born around the clock, and others in different degree are born in shorter time span, every day, it is no wonder you have a single book with so many versions in the same language, selling like hot cakes to the gullibles! I wonder if I can talk The old man Chinua Achebe to allow many versions of his master piece in English, so that he can get more royalty!

[
On a lighter note, i have a friend named hafsat, i will start calling her mohammeds wife, am sure she will kill me.

Believe me if she is a Muslim and understands that you have honored her, your death will be from another hand, and not from her! But when your death truly comes, there is no way to escape it or delay it for a moment!

@Osisi: Iam in a good mood. Am laughing at his temperament.
Re: The 5 versions of the Arabic Koran by away4real(m): 10:21pm On Jan 30, 2008
@ wale, segun and shegun again sematics, anyway keep at it, that was just my 2 cents i no dey d palaver, pilgrim has shown that the koran has been translated in more than 100 languages so keep at it, denying the obvious.

Am happy for u that u ave learnt the arabic, aramic or watever d language, congrats i hope u have a certificate. cheesy grin

NB: i just called my friend shes a muslim (anyway enjoyment muslim) and she didnt find it funny, i will keep her rxn cos its personal to her.

@ osisi, i withdraw the nutcase its not in my character but the bunch of rubbish was alarming.

@ pilgrim, sisterly u didnt have to do all dat research. Anyway thanks for the proof, 6 billion readers, and still counting,
Re: The 5 versions of the Arabic Koran by away4real(m): 10:33pm On Jan 30, 2008
olabowale:


Since a complete fool is born around the clock, and others in different degree are born in shorter time span, every day, it is no wonder you have a single book with so many versions in the same language, selling like hot cakes to the gullibles! I wonder if I can talk The old man Chinua Achebe to allow many versions of his master piece in English, so that he can get more royalty!


You know i didnt see that, osisi c y i used that word.

There is no correlation between number of translations and numbers sold, simple if not Pinocchio should be the second largest selling book. Anyway keep at it.

Try as much as you can, there is no one Koran, simple, the koran has versions and translations and in different keys, c minor, a major, alto and teno. grin. Geez,
Re: The 5 versions of the Arabic Koran by olabowale(m): 11:05pm On Jan 30, 2008
And some of them are in Motel 6 room, etc!

@way4real:
NB: i just called my friend shes a muslim (anyway enjoyment muslim) and she didnt find it funny, i will keep her rxn because its personal to her.[/qoute] From your tone, and I do not know what you really mean "anyway enjoyment muslim," it seems that your Christianity is lukewarm at best! +Osisi, didn't you quote a verse about yoking with unbelivers, the 'Muslims?' See what your brother in Christianity is doing!

Finally, if I were to talk to your 'anyway enjoyment Muslim' woman, I will remember her to be mindful of her Creator! To comingle a Keferi is a great sin, especially when you as a woman is not married to him. Marrying a Keferi, which you are away4real, is bad enough, but relationship out of marriage is a double wammy!

Re: The 5 versions of the Arabic Koran by away4real(m): 11:33pm On Jan 30, 2008
Quote from wale. Finally, if I were to talk to your 'anyway enjoyment Muslim' woman, I will remember her to be mindful of her Creator! To comingle a Keferi is a great sin, especially when you as a woman is not married to him. Marrying a Keferi, which you are away4real, is bad enough, but relationship out of marriage is a double wammy!


@ wale, your quote above tells a lot about the religion of peace. So to date a friend that doesnt share her "religious" belief in a circular society is a great sin.

And did i say i was dating her, so every female friend to you theres something to it. How did i get into a debate with you. grin cheesy.

Anyway i cant be unequally yoked with her, though to me its not a great sin, my bible advises "DO NOT" cause there will be issues, must everything be do or die to you folks.
Re: The 5 versions of the Arabic Koran by luvus: 12:28pm On Jan 31, 2008
@ away4real
The fact that i don't have to learn Hebrew, Greek or whatever and that the life transforming power of the bible is not tied to a language of men actually tells much of the authenticity. No matter how hard men try to distort the message, the bible has only become clearer, [b]its all about the spirit, [/b]which the Koran offers little about.

i like the bolden statement, the spirit not just the letter which kills.

@all
u see the more all of em expose themselves, the more all of us see and the thousand alloevr the world that view this thread about the koran.
continue exposing u we are seeing u more and more,
Re: The 5 versions of the Arabic Koran by osisi5: 8:33pm On Jan 31, 2008
You're even going too far.
A religion where their so called allah can't even relate to his subjects,has no feelings and frankly no one knows what may befall him at the end including his beloved apostle Mo.
Who wants to play black jack with his life?

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