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|h by Ikamenze(m): 7:41pm On Oct 16, 2012|
|Re: h by Ikamenze(m): 8:11pm On Oct 16, 2012|
It's a Text document so it might not open if you are using a mobile device unless you save it first...
|Re: h by VillageBoi(m): 5:42pm On Oct 17, 2012|
Just like little 15yr old George tells the woman on page 7 "Seriously??" Me sef go ask you - SERIOUSLY??
So a woman on her own leaves her town/city/village or whatever, goes to Benin City to find a guy she has not seen or been in contact with for 13 yrs and as soons as she gets out of the cab the first person she meets and asks says "Yes, yes, yes I know the man you came to search for on a leap of faith. Na my big brother's friend" WTF... SERIOUSLY??
I thought it was going to be a 10-page sample tops!! But you threw in 117 pages of that junk? I got to pg 7 of talking heads, talking heads, talking heads and then looked at pg 117, the last page.... which is probably just the middle of the story and it went straight in the 'trash can' where it belongs. And please don't quip back with the 'It gets much better" line.
|Re: h by Ikamenze(m): 8:39pm On Oct 17, 2012|
VillageBoi: Just like little 15yr old George tells the woman on page 7 "Seriously??" Me sef go ask you - SERIOUSLY??
Thanks for reading the 7 pages villageboi n thnx for d criticism....U too much..
I know George bn d very first guy she meets seems alil plausible but its a small neighbourhood and everybody knows everybody plus.....u know what,there's no but..u re absolutely right n I ll definitely look into it (even thou it is a work of fiction n I have actually seen worse in nollywood)
As for d “talking heads” part,sori but what exactly were u expecting to see? Talking Anuses? Did I state at any point it was an action film? D whole story is driven by d dialogue...
117 pages?? Really....I honestly didn't know it was dat much..and Yes,dis is no where near d middle of d story..
Villageboi..I think its only fair u know alil about my background...I'm a student studying Accountancy...I have absolutely no training whatsoever in film/scriptwriting....I'm just a guy who's in love with film making (scriptwriting in particular)..Its d passion dats has been my driving force n nothing more (did u c d price tag on dat thing)...Now maybe at d end I will do dis professionally,maybe I won't either ways..I'M GONNA KEEP ON WRITING.....
I've bn on nairaland a long time and this is d first time I'm actually posting something...believe me,dis wasn't an easy decision to make because I know how d people on dis site are but still I went through with it and I've got no regrets..none at all.
There's a huge difference between constructive criticism and insult my friend..
P.S..The story really does get better....AND I've seen some of ur work,no offence but you re not exactly d sharpest nail in the box if u know what I mean...
|Re: h by VillageBoi(m): 6:42am On Oct 18, 2012|
Oh I'm sorry... IT'S SO FREAKING AMAZING!!!!
No be you be the same persin wey dey fire this script for every thread and people are even asking you if na cheap advert you dey find? No wonder you know about talking anuses.
You even opened up a different thread with the 'scene' of page 117 and within an hour you begin cry for the same thread "Ah people una no wan comment"... Na by force people must comment? Do they owe you? (Where is that thread sef? Na different username you use there abi?)
Please go back to the drawing board and don't be writing that page 2 & 3 nonsense that has the most ridiculous set of 'coincidences' on the planet and making stupid excuses about it... because na the dumbest bush village people you dey write for as your audience. And you no get shame to say "But I've seen worse from Nollywood"... So your best effort you need to compare with the worst Nollywood has to offer?
Oh I need to know your background? FOR WHAT EXACTLY? Go and be a flipping accountant then! Afterall there are some guys here on NL that write pretty good stuff... they didn't go to school for it but read everything they could find about scripts on the Internet and books they could find.
I don vex finish!
Now for the start of my constructive yabbing - PT1
You really don't need to post more than 5-10 pages for people to give feedback on your writing style, dialogue and so on.
When you post you don't need to threaten people with "If you wan steal my script you are a time-wasting idiot because you're too dumb to write an ending yourself." - If you want feedback, don't be giving people "I am too smart for you" comments - as you have found out, they will completely and rightfully ignore you.
I think you should get rid of the attachment and then add only the first 10 pages (that really is the most important part of your script and easier for people to read or skim through). Then nicely ask people to please read it and give feedback. You'll probably get a lot more responses that way (remember you're the one asking for a favour).
Don't you worry about my bad mouth, people know say na from gutter my mouth come. When I get back tonight I will read the first 10 pages and then write back to you without a single word of yabbing.
You say you have a real passion for doing this? Well that's the most important thing. Writing 117 + pages is no easy task so I'll give credit where credit is due. Talk to you here later tonight with - PT2
PS - Trust me, I know how difficult it is to share work with strangers. No be today I start collect yabbings from people; the good thing about it is you strive to make the next thing you do even far better.
|Re: h by Ikamenze(m): 3:13pm On Oct 18, 2012|
VillageBoi: Oh I'm sorry... IT'S SO FREAKING AMAZING!!!!
Even though dis got beta at the constructive yabbings part,I still felt a very strong desire to go HAM on you,I wanted to tell you how you are not one to talk since dat SWEET SIXTEEN short u did is d sillest thing I've seen in a while,I wanted to even go personal n start insulting ur looks n everything but I won't...I won't because I have a feeling dat you've bn here before (at d receiving end of d yabbing)....I won't because I know even d best brains in d game (filmmaking) have received bashing from critics at some point in their career,so I guess instead of trying to justify wot I've written,I should just get used to it now dat its still early in my career...But I will however address some of the things you wrote one after the other.
First of all,I never said I was beta than anybody,if I was,I won't be putting out my work for you people to critic now would I?
And we both know how those nollywood people steal oda people's work without giving d owners proper credit so I have no apologises for that.
I told u about my background only so you will see that I learnt this poo on my own,I'm no professional and I don't claim to be.
Adam n Eve is nowhere near my best work,dis is actually the second script I wrote n to be honest,I knew d it was flawed from the start,d dialogues were abnornally long n d scenes just dragged on forever but in my defence,I literally had to build d story from stratch,I didn't have much to work with but I just knew its something I had to write and it really is a good story,a simple one but good nonetheless.....bottomline is,dis is nowhere close to my best work,if it was,I wouldn't post it on d most popular forum in d country for everybody to read....
I don't think its proper to call just 3 links an ADVERT...I didn't even leave d Entertainment section.... I admit I did it out of desperation,I tot nobody was reading afterall d main reason for putting it up n in d first place was to get feed back but apparently I was wrong,YOU WERE READING....u read d part were I wrote dat dis was actually my first time posting/commenting on nairaland ryt? I'm not fully abreat with the way things work around here but lesson learnt.
You really think I would go as far as to change my Name so I could do.....whatever u wrote there.....I simply MODIFIED the topic n changed d file from just one scene to what's there ryt now...dats all.
Dude..I've got no problem with you,maybe yabbing someone is your own way of encouragement..Its cool but in d future,just tone it down alil bit.... I really do appreciate your comments..I do...if anytin,you've made me wanna be an even better writer so thank you..
I await d oda part of ur constructive yabbings.......Or better still just chill till afta u read d whole tin (I know you will) I will be posting it on sunday..
|Re: h by VillageBoi(m): 6:37am On Oct 19, 2012|
Hi Ikamenze. Sorry we got in after a shoot at 3am, I just finished backing up and sorting out all the data we shot so I have to get a bit of shut-eye before going out at 9am. I do have a lazy weekend so will def get back to you within a day or two.
|Re: h by Briareos(m): 11:56am On Oct 19, 2012|
This thread is getting hot!
|Re: h by semid4lyfe(m): 10:12pm On Oct 19, 2012|
VillageBoi, you no see sey I no gree comment on that your Sweet 16 video?
Take this as my comment please
|Re: h by Ikamenze(m): 12:16am On Oct 20, 2012|
Briareos: This thread is getting hot!
Yeah but make e nor too hot sha.....I don't want it to make front page pls...
|Re: h by VillageBoi(m): 6:31am On Oct 20, 2012|
Briareos: This thread is getting hot!
Weather here cold nah, we must raise temperature lol
semid4lyfe: VillageBoi, you no see sey I no gree comment on that your Sweet 16 video?
Thank you my broda, how bodi now?
Haba... Front Page na fame.
|Re: h by semid4lyfe(m): 9:55am On Oct 20, 2012|
I thank Baba God. . .Man no die, man no rotten and the ministry is moving forward
|Re: h by VillageBoi(m): 5:59pm On Oct 20, 2012|
Sorry, bear with me because this is a long post -
Ok as promised I did read the first 10 pages. There isn’t really much to say. I like page 1 as we don’t know what is going on and we are intrigued to know more about this woman that came out of a cab.
Let me first mention I didn’t care about the formatting, the grammar, the spelling – all those are easily forgivable things and stuff that can be overlooked – it doesn’t have to be but I will focus on what the ‘story’ made me feel as an audience member. Also remember the ‘audience’ is and has every right to say anything I the world the want. A common thing we Nigerians will say is “Heh, go and shoot your own then” – The audience does not even have to know what a camera looks like, if they want to tear you a new poo-poo orifice on your forehead they are absolutely allowed to.
How much yabbing have films like ‘Titanic’ and ‘Prometheus’ received? The audience does NOT have to go and make films as good as or better than the ones they just yabbed.
Now of all the places in the whole wide world that the cab could have dropped her off (remember na you tok say she no know where she dey go or even if the guy she is looking for lives in that city) – anyway the cab ‘miraculously’ drops her exactly where her ‘miraculous’ answer is – right in front of the boy that has the answer to one of the biggest questions in the world ‘What is the meaning of life?’ Everyoe will take that 'truth' with a pinch of salt.
Ok let’s just assume we accept your version – you have, on page 2 & 3, immediately killed any starting ‘conflict’ that would have kept us engaged by using the far too common Nigerian cop out method of writing ‘amazing coincidences’ because we just can’t think deeply enough to resolve ‘conflicts’.
So the first line of page 3 the boy solves her problem. Ask yourself has even YOUR life ever been that easy? The film has ended then and there and we’re pissed off because it’s a waste of a big opportunity to grab the attention of your audience by ‘showing’ us what a huge mega dangerous gutter this woman has dug for herself. That would immediately make us feel for her and make us want to be on her side while fearing for her life. You tell me you never heard about the story of the girl that got killed via Facebook in some dingy hotel in Lagos? You put your character in the exact same danger but because we Nigerians even piss pure holy water na so angel, miracle dey touch every character wey get problem – immediately! – Yeah I so f*cking believe that.
And, me being honest with you, the first 10 pages of your script is just this woman and boy walking on the road – yup, doing their ‘talking head’ thing! If the woman had farted and immediately blamed and started beating the boy you would have grabbed my attention! Ok, fine… they asked a construction worker on page 8 if they have seen her lovin, lovin man she dey find. But really? 10 pages of two people walking with theirs heads bobbing up and down – absolutely stunning, interesting and engaging visuals!!
Remember we live in a very fast age. In 30 seconds you have made up you mind if you are going to continue to watch clip A, B or C on Youtube. In 5 seconds you know if you are going to watch the advert on TV or flip to a new channel. My brother 10 minutes in film is an ETERNITY for nothing to be happening!! Why waste it with them TELLING us the whole darnn story of her life. Write various scenes that ‘SHOW’ us the story of her life and ‘show’ us other key characters or at least the HUGE DANGEROUS dilemma she is in…. because that’s where you put her but we don’t see or feel it. Then on page 444 you want to tell us “Oh but…”
As said before the first 10 pages of your script are crucial. With this relevant story is where you have to grab your audience big-time – slap your audience, kick them, punch them, make them cry, make their hearts beat so hard for this woman that bloods spurts out of their eyes.
Put the girl from frying pan to fire; not from frying pan to super sweet smelling bed-of-roses.
Shebi you be Nigerian like me? That means like me you are a wicked somborri – write that wickedness let us cry with what we’re seeing on the screen. Let us suffer with this girl on her dangerous journey – do what no one else has done. Are you making the film for 5yr old shidren that you’re writing a fairy-tale?
When you were writing this your heart was NOT thumping hot blood… so how would that happen to your audience? I bet 100% you were not even excited… so how would your audience be excited?
I have a theory as to why the bulk of Nigerian writing is so calm. Na guilty conscience dey worri us. Yes! We are such a wicked people that we have to cover up by writing so saintly to prove we are awesomely good and butter doesn’t melt in our mouths.
So with all honesty there is nothing to write about as there really is nothing going on in the first 10 pages. I totally wanted it to be so much more than that but most importantly you sat down and wrote a full feature screenplay. No one can ever take that away from you. And if I talk rubbish then stick up your middle finger at me – where’s your fighting spirit? Don’t be timid in your scripts – give us a kick in the nuts! You’re not just ‘talking’, you’re actually ‘doing’ and that is a plus in my mind.
Infact don’t even be timid when we write. If you want to go HAM on me please feel free to – you know you are actually allowed to? You want to yab my looks… feel free to, I have never and will never claim to be a fine boy. I am completely bush, my family calls me a bushman and I don’t give a hoot. I don’t hide it and I never try to be what I’m not. And ‘No’ I actually have not received any yabbings here or anywhere online for making the silliest thing you’ve ever watched.
Your audience goes into a cinema to watch your film. You elicit any ‘emotion’ from them because of what they see on the screen then you are a winner. There is no reason on the planet why you shouldn’t be and can’t be a winner.
There are 4 guys on this site that I respect A LOT and I think I liked them because we can argue over things, I think I fought with one or 2 of them before we became friends. They are very passionate about filmmaking and I definitely know Mr T is vexed with me right now because I have not replied his last email. I didn’t yab you because I don’t like you; I yabbed you because you were annoying and I like that – people like you that really do have a heart to do things… and I know because you posted this same thing in every thread – you were not going to give up – how positively annoying is that? Don’t try to understand my ‘fuzzy’ logic because I don’t understand it myself. Keep on doing what you do, read everything you can find online, download scripts too. Simple fact is you CAN write so keep on pushing amd make yourself a pretty damn good scriptwriter. My 2 Kobo be that.
|Re: h by Briareos(m): 6:58pm On Oct 20, 2012|
@VB, Wow! This is quite stupendous!
Any hope of you critiquing my script...I've been waiting for like forever!
|Re: h by Ikamenze(m): 7:22pm On Oct 20, 2012|
|Re: h by Ikamenze(m): 7:23pm On Oct 20, 2012|
Honestly,this has been kind of a wake up call for me cos everything you wrote,I ALREADY KNOW....I guess somewhere along the line I got too concerntrated on d little things (like great dialogue which is also good by the way) and lost sight of the big picture......
For this particular screenplay, I got too attached with it (I do dat with all my work)...and dig dis,do you know I didn't even ON THE PAGINATION function on my Celtx app when I was writing it....that's why I was shocked wen u told me it was 177pages....I just kept on writing n writing and well I think it is a delight to read in terms of dialogue but to watch,not so much.....You know I've bn doing dis for almost two years now and at dis point I thought I had it all figured out,I WAS SO WRONG...
After reading through your comments these last two days,I have downloaded over a dozen screenplays/ebooks in PDF formats into my computer...simply put,I'm going back to basics,its 2010 for me again...
Villageboi..I can't thank you enough for waking me up,for reminding me dat I'm still a rookie..Thank you,Thank you,Thank you...
Hopefully before the end of the month I will make another post,I'm thinking a short screenplay (as in short film script)...I will try and incorporate all I ll be learning dis week into it and you will tell me what you think okay...Peace.
|Re: h by VillageBoi(m): 7:54pm On Oct 20, 2012|
Briareous my brotha, I know you're going to punch me and give me a black eye ontop of the two wey my Mama born me with. I have done half of your script and I totally like the story... which really isn't something I should say here. I can explain why I have taken that much time but I won't because I'll raise my hand straight away and say I should have emailed you by now without fail. Bear with me I definitely will and a big well done to you man!
Ikamenze, I'll be back to respond to you in a second... there is a Yotube clip I'm looking for to share with you and I just can't remember the name... searching for it now. For now, if you can ever get your hands on these 2 books (check if people have posted photocopies or PDFs online) - 'Story' by Robert McKee and 'The Writer's Journey' by Christopher Vogler - Not even a joke, those two books will change your writing-life overnight!
|Re: h by Ikamenze(m): 8:03pm On Oct 20, 2012|
I have story by Robert Mckee....somebody actually sent it to me some weeks back...I haven't started reading it tho..
|Re: h by VillageBoi(m): 9:13pm On Oct 20, 2012|
Ikamenze: I have story by Robert Mckee....somebody actually sent it to me some weeks back...I haven't started reading it tho..
Hey that's really cool to hear, awesome book!
I did find the Youtube clips I was lookig for so back to the respose I wanted to write.
First of all I'm going to consider you number 5 of the 4 guys I actually like a lot on this site simply because you seem as passionate as they are and as I am. A bit of truth here is we might never be great but at least we try things and are more or less on the same mental wavelength. Infact two of them have posted in this thread - Brireos and Semi4lyfe - where Semid don run go sef? I find them to be very interesting guys and you probably will too. No vex if they yab you!
My response was just going to be on dialogue. You did write some good dialogue, some quirky lines and some not good dialogue too - but we all do that. 'Great' dialogue is one of the hardest things ever to write. The biggest yabbing I got was from a lecturer of mie that destroyed 80% of my scenes whe I first wrote a feature length screenplay - and that was the best & most truthful thing that ever happened to me. It made me take a step back and look at his POV ad helped me think much harder when I write anything.
I almost forgot - 'Writing Dialogue for Scripts' by Rib Davis is another good one. One of the guys I respect his writing is Aaron Sorkin - he writes a lot of TV stuff as well as films like - The American President, The Social Network - I'm curretly a fan of his new TV series - The Newsroom.
This guy can write dialogue and guess what? He even 'steals' his own dialogue - When he gets a 'good' line he uses it again and again in different things - here are a couple of 'Sorkinism' clips followed by the opening scene for 'The Newsroom'
Sorkinisms - A Super Cut -
Sorkinisms - A Newsroom Edition - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NwnUeIIqABo
Opening scene - The Newsroom - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BJWKccHQFOA
This guy writes 'dialogue' so well it scares me!!
And here is one of my fav scenes ever from the film 'Atonement' - because it's ONE shot of 5mins and yet so much is happeneing in it -
Like the others, like you I too am just a learner and I think we really can push each other to try to write better. We are blessed to live in an age where 'everything' we need to learn is there online. We just have to practice, practice and practice.
PS - I can never remember how to post Youtube links so they show up embedded. I'll try embed codes.
|Re: h by Ikamenze(m): 6:30am On Oct 21, 2012|
I just checked out the links...Thanks
I want to see if I can find the other book,d one on dialogues in PDF format..
|Re: h by VillageBoi(m): 1:22pm On Oct 21, 2012|
Ikamenze: I just checked out the links...Thanks
You're welcome. Just a quick question... Did you find any of the links to believable? Especially the 'opening scene'? The reason I ask is this... Let's assume you used to live in Ikeja, Lagos... you left 10yrs ago and your best friend that lived next doors stayed. 10yrs later, having lost contact with your friend and everyone you ever knew and not being able to find anything about them, you now decide to return to Lagos to look for your 'then best friend' - I'm pretty sure you would have thought about it long and hard and then start your 'search' by going right back to the house you used to live in. You wouldn't stop in Oshodi motor-park and start asking 'mechanics' if they know 'Bom-Boy'.
Using that as an opening scene I'd find it hard not to think the woman in your script is kinda stupid. Why? Because further on in the same scene she tells us she 'used to live there'. So why didn't she go to her old house and not drop off on some random road asking random people if they know Mr A?
Sometimes we have characters and we don't really know what they would do but ask yourself what would YOU really do. Does that make any sense? Always try to find how someone would logically behave; put them in that logical place and then create another 'problem' for them. Maybe she gets to her former residence and it's been turned into a block of flats or school or just a burnt out shell.
Just a little tip. Try not to make things implausible. Your audience has to believe it. Let the character do the 'right thing' but let them keep on bumping into obstacles (up to a certain point).
A little writing excercise is - take any of your long dialogue-heavy scenes and rewrite the scene in a third of the space. It'll force you to be very careful with the words you use and every single word on the page must earn its place in moving the 'story' forward. So a 10pg scene becomes a 3 pg scene. A 3pg scene becomes a 1pg scene. It's not an easy thing to do but is very good practice. There is a saying "Start every scene as late as possible and get out of the scene as soon as possible."
Good luck man.
|Re: h by lynx200(m): 9:16pm On Oct 25, 2012|
@Villageboi. I like the constructive criticism you gave of Ikamenze's script. I have really learnt a lot from it and intend to incorporate in into my own scripts (most especially the book recommendations). I want to use the opportunity to ask the house members to evaluate a script of mine. Most of the scripts I usually write are commissioned jobs so I can't show them here but this is one I intend to produce myself. I wanted to bring in a comedy show that is different from the others we watch in Nigeria here and I would like to know my shortcomings so that I can correct myself and learn something new.thanks
|Re: h by VillageBoi(m): 1:23am On Oct 26, 2012|
lynx200: @Villageboi. I like the constructive criticism you gave of Ikamenze's script. I have really learnt a lot from it and intend to incorporate in into my own scripts (most especially the book recommendations). I want to use the opportunity to ask the house members to evaluate a script of mine. Most of the scripts I usually write are commissioned jobs so I can't show them here but this is one I intend to produce myself. I wanted to bring in a comedy show that is different from the others we watch in Nigeria here and I would like to know my shortcomings so that I can correct myself and learn something new.thanks
Bros Lynx, how bodi now? You give me far too much kudos. I know at least 2 of the books have 'free' PDFs online, not sure about the 'Dialogue' book. Once I respond to Bros B I'll have a look at your script... of course I did have a 'peep' and can say I totally love the 'Freeze-Frame' introductions of the 'characters' in Episode 1... that will look pretty cool.
For some reason the 'freeze' opening of a webisode series popped into my head -
Blood & Bone China - Episode 1 sample -
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