proudlyafrican: [b][/b]

Thanks for the correction,however a country with about 99.9% people sharing the same faith and a small minority as you have mentioned should have been better off a country like Nigeria with 50.4% Muslims, 48.2% Christians and 1.4% adherents of other religions and over 200 tribes.

As I wrote earlier on, amalgamation was bound to happen as a result of the inter group relations that existed in what is now Nigeria. It was a no surprise that Lugard will cease this advangage to almagamate Nigeria.

coded guy: Even though I already felt that the amalgamation was a mistake before the debate started I duff my heart for Obinoscopy. At a point he was already convincing me but the point where Katsumotu highlited the fact that as a result of the amalgamation there were too many diverse interest as per religion, ethnicity, political ambitions won it for me.

In conclusion for me the issue of the amalgamation will always come up because of the faulty political structure we are operating.

Once again, congrats to the two debaters they did justice. It was insightful.

So I almost convinced you

Thanks, I must say I learnt a lot from my opponent and the audience as well. Thats the beauty of a constructive debate.

I however still stand on my ground

proudlyafrican: [b][/b]

Thanks for the correction,however a country with about 99.9% people sharing the same faith and a small minority as you have mentioned should have been better off a country like Nigeria with 50.4% Muslims, 48.2% Christians and 1.4% adherents of other religions and over 200 tribes.

But my position is not that all non-amalgamated countries are successful. It is about whether amalgamation was good in a general sense and whether it was good or bad for Nigeria.

To succeed, many countries still have to deal with political, social, and financial issues.

To underscore my point, let me give an example. A man who goes to university increases his chances of success in life and his odds are better than a guy who didn't finish primary school. But that is not to say that there aren't guys who didn't finish school who aren't richer than guys who went to university. There are but if you sample rich folks, you will find out that most of them were university educated. 75% of the top 1% wealthiest folks in the US have degrees while only 38% of working age adults have degrees.

Now transfer that analogy to Nigeria and other former colonies. Nations that fought for their independence along ethnic lines tend to be more stable than nations that were forced into a union.

Iaz93: Obinoscopy ur presentation was cool...katsumoto u'r good..
Excellent debate.
Mehn... I cud c brains at work..
Wonderful...

Thanks laz, thats the beauty of nairaland. A place where great minds meet

Katsumoto: Nations that fought for their independence along ethnic lines tend to be more stable than nations that were forced into a union.

Source please. A study need to be done to confirm this.

'united we stand, divided we fall', has been a lie in d case of Nigeria.
The British govt was subsidising her administration of northern Nigeria b4 1914 with grants from Britain and Southern Nigeria. The major reason 4 amalgamation was for the South to bear the burden. So, until the North ve no need of the South, the South should continue living with the 'northern yoke'.

great job guys, and i hope other discussants on this forum will learn how to argue their point without insults.

to the 2 debaters +7.6

Well done Katsumo and Obinoscopy. Must say I was highly impressed most especially with Obino.

I have read quite a number of Kats posts so pretty much knew what to expect with regards to bringing his A game to the table.

Obino on other hand was a huge surprise because not only have I never seen nor read his posts before but also because I thought the Debate was highly Skewed in favour of Kats. Very Impressed man.

Katsumoto:
Nations that fought for their independence along ethnic lines tend to be more stable than nations that were forced into a union.

That will be a debate for some other time.

chic2pimp: Well done Katsumo and Obinoscopy. Must say I was highly impressed most especially with Obino.

I have read quite a number of Kats posts so pretty much knew what to expect with regards to bringing his A game to the table.

Obino on other hand was a huge surprise because not only have I never seen nor read his posts before but also because I thought the Debate was highly Skewed in favour of Kats. Very Impressed man.

Thanks my man. Never knew you guys would like my argument this much

Interesting debate...
Obinoscopy's arguments was a much easier read than Kasumoto's.
Can't say i didn't add a thing or two to my knowledge of the amalgamation and issues surrounding it from each of them though..

Can't believe I'm still awake and followed all arguments to the last .....I say arigato gazaimasu, katsumato-san and obinoscopy-san!!! Really learnt alot!! ....looking forward to another debate

Quite interesting! They both did fantastic given how well they put forward their argument. Punch line upon punch line. @Katsumoto. You are good, it all seemed as if u had anticipated and prepared for this debate long before now. With the level of facts you tendered, i can only but salute. @obinoscopy. U where very cogent and i love the way you presented your points, concise and brief, quite convincing it was. Kudos to both guys, indeed it was educative. Looking forward to more of such.

Malcolm-X:


Why should national interests outweigh the people's interests?

Don't you think you need to put your house in order before thinking about your community?

National interest is the real element y a state exist. If state cannot define their national in terms of the realities in international politics then it cease to exist.. that is y a state can sacrificing its citizens to achieve its national interest

I strongly believe that if not for amalgamations the countries that would ve been within the NigerArea would be more developed than Nigeria (unless islam held back d north). Atleast, one or two of the countries would be refining crude oil and exportin refined products.
Amalgamation is only a mistake 4 those at d receiving end (the South) and a blessing 4 d north.

Firstly, my appreciation goes to Sir Seun for the invention of this great citadel of learning especially for the young minds for expanding our minds, creating in us a deep insight and broaden knowledge.

Besides, Bro. Jarus you're too much. I am looking up to you for greater innovations to shape ideas and thoughts for the future. You've possessed the attributes of a good leader.

Obi & kat... You guys are too much. Thanks for contributing immensely to the development of the younger ones. I love these historical facts.
Fight with your strength not in others weakness. As your success lies in your effort not in others defeat.

Kudos to the moderators, impeccable judges and we (audience).

free2ryhme:


National interest is the real element y a state exist. If state cannot define their national in terms of the realities in international politics then it cease to exist.. that is y a state can sacrificing its citizens to achieve its national interest

u re wrong. D national interest in simple term is something a state put out so any state that wishes to relate with her can follow. But there is something call core values(something I call nonnegotiable). For core values more than national interest nations go to war. And core values really are the bases for the formulation of national interest. But Nigeria should not expect me to kill anybody for her o, cos she is d enemy I know.

Great debate from both debaters...I have added more fact to my knowledge base on the amalgamation, all thanks to Kats. I'm particularly impressed with Obino as he defended an otherwise difficult subject with such persuasiveness. Kudos.

Thanks to Jarus, OAM4J and the entire Nairaland crew for making this happen..looking forward to the next edition

slimyem: Interesting debate...
Obinoscopy's arguments was a much easier read than Kasumoto's.
Can't say i didn't add a thing or two to my knowledge of the amalgamation and issues surrounding it from each of them though..

Glad you gained a thing or two. I myself learnt a lot as well.

Feraz: Can't believe I'm still awake and followed all arguments to the last .....I say arigato gazaimasu, katsumato-san and obinoscopy-san!!! Really learnt alot!! ....looking forward to another debate

Yeah, and did you just called me SAN? Abeg I no reach O

Santino1: Great debate from both debaters...I have added more fact to my knowledge base on the amalgamation, all thanks to Kats. I'm particularly impressed with Obino as he defended an otherwise difficult subject with such persuasiveness. Kudos.

Thanks to Jarus, OAM4J and the entire Nairaland crew for making this happen..looking forward to the next edition

Yeah, Kats did lecture us all on history. I think I gained more from him than he from me

marion g: Quite interesting! They both did fantastic given how well they put forward their argument. Punch line upon punch line. @Katsumoto. You are good, it all seemed as if u had anticipated and prepared for this debate long before now. With the level of facts you tendered, i can only but salute. @obinoscopy. U where very cogent and i love the way you presented your points, concise and brief, quite convincing it was. Kudos to both guys, indeed it was educative. Looking forward to more of such.

I'm honored being a debater in this edition. Looking for to the next as well, this time as an audience

Congratulations to both Katz and Obinoscopy. Thanks for a beautiful debate.

Frankly, I look at the birth of Nigeria as I do that of a child born as a result of vicious r ape. We all know that, such a child could, despite the unfortunate circumstances of her birth, become the greatest achiever in her continent.

Insha Allah, Nigeria will become great soon enough.

Katsumoto and Obinoscopy, well done, guys.

I see the debate followed the schedule and posted format. Impressive coordination by Jarus, OAM4J and others.

ndu_chucks:

Frankly, I look at the birth of Nigeria as I do that of a child born as a result of vicious r ape. We all know that, such a child could, despite the unfortunate circumstances of her birth, become the greatest achiever in her continent.

Hope springs eternal, Alhaji One Naijeriya.

Just completed the thread and I am seriously disappointed I missed it (Coordinators....Pls did you get my email?)

Katz and Obinoscopy...guys, I am in awe of you two right now. You took a topic that seemed DOA and gave it life and had it spinning on its heads (or should I say spinning our heads). You guys did such a fantastic job, I am starting to think maybe it was Providence that I wasn't able to be on the judging panel because I gotta tell ya, I don't know if I would have been able to make up my mind....that's how good you both were. (I hope this admission does not come and bite me on the ass oh )

Thank you both for taking the time and effort to do this topic justice, don't wanna speak for all but I doubt anyone who's given this thread a thorough read through can say they haven't learnt anything or even had some concepts they once believed true...change a little.

Coordinators....So how does one say Bravo for a job well done without using trite words like ehmm....Bravo for a job well done? You guys have started something really great here...for the first time since I was ye high....I can safely say this is the first thread we've had on this section that didn't degenerate into the usual central market brouhaha!

Hopefully this kinda courteous and intelligent mode of discourse will carry over to none debate threads...Hopefully!

Obinoscopy took the debate like he was actually talking to people sitting in a "Nairaland Hall". Great delivery - also throwing rhetorical questions to the audience. I think he diverted all the blames to our leader while there are other cogent points like human resources, geographical influence and so on. Kudos!

Kats was very logical and in-depth. More like a thesis He took it from the scratch and gave it a good finishing. Kudos. But I think its was kinda lengthy. His further argument shows how really in-depth he is. I say kudos, again.

Kudos to the Mods and judges.

Truth be told, the amalgamation of the southern and northern protectorate was a costly mistake.

To corroborate this topic, I wrote an article around March after the Catholic church was bombed in Jos. As it stands, those who brought us into this mess, our colonial masters, are facing the same problem. Scotland, the oil-rich part of the UK wants to be on its own. Although there are some similarities between a Scot and an English man, the differences would always give them a terra firma to have their own sovereignty. Unlike the Scots and every other Britons, there is no pinch of similarity between a Southerner and a Northern. The difference between them is as vast as the difference between a giraffe and a kangaroo . I mean, u can't just bring groups of people with an extremely different culture and religion together under the same abode and expect peace. No. People invest somuch ego into their culture, religion and territory that it could make cannibals out of them!

Anyway, hope is not lost. God bless Nigeria.



Frawzey

I read the entire debate and comments. Obinoscopy and Katsumoto good job guys.

Obi, you gave it your best shot but you missed the issue by a wide margin. I dont want to spoil this floor, the outpouring of impression is in good measure and should not be diluted. Meet me in the other room when you have time and if Im gone my response to you will be waiting for you to digest.

ayox2003: Obinoscopy took the debate like he was actually talking to people sitting in a "Nairaland Hall". Great delivery - also throwing rhetorical questions to the audience. I think he diverted all the blames to our leader while there are other cogent points like human resource, influence and so on. Kudos!









Frawzey

even If I cudnt reply I felt that too, the debaters where actually impressive with facts, Katsumo, Obi great jobs homies.


But just Like I will tell anyone interested,America today is not together cause of bunkery of weapons, it is not their size rather they have a developed a national spirit which has made them look beyond the bounds of annexation of other groups, or the different groups that make them up, if Nigeria must go forward we must look inwards and understand that 1914 happened and it happened, I mean together we've acheived what I believe we could nt have achieved if we were independent of ourselves, so we must develop that sense of love and nationalism towards a greater Nation than a Hood for dispirited souls wishing lugard never did what he did.

Dstar4u: Firstly, my appreciation goes to Sir Seun for the invention of this great citadel of learning especially for the young minds for expanding our minds, creating in us a deep insight and broaden knowledge.

Besides, Bro. Jarus you're too much. I am looking up to you for greater innovations to shape ideas and thoughts for the future. You've possessed the attributes of a good leader.

Obi & kat... You guys are too much. Thanks for contributing immensely to the development of the younger ones. I love these historical facts.
Fight with your strength not in others weakness. As your success lies in your effort not in others defeat.

Kudos to the moderators, impeccable judges and we (audience).

seconed!

This is an extraordinary debate and I followed it since yesterday when the thread started. It's simply awesome! However, I do have soul-searching comments for Kats, Obinoscopy and all other Nairalanders.
1. Nations are mainly built on principles, core values and cultural (and social) construct of the societies that make up the nation-state. For example, America was founded based on the mutual and collective revolution of the people against the King of England's obscene taxation policy. Today, the core value is mainly centred on equality for all irrespective of who or what you are. This can be seen in the declaration of independence document. Do we have any core value at the onset of the amalgamation of 'Niger-Area'? What were the motives? Did the different ethnic nationalities have similar aspiration(s) back then? Do they still have the same aspirations today?

Let me tell remind us that the name, Nigeria, means different things to different ethnic groups today.

2. Today in Nigeria, some ethnic nationalities are at home with looting government funds, some justify the importation of 'killer' drugs as a sign of commercial adventurism, some see nothing wrong in slashing the throats of people with different religious (and genealogical) affiliation, and, some even go as far as arming rebels (their people) to 'fight' against the government. I could list as many ills in Nigeria which appears as a norm to different ethnic group and taboo to others. Aren't these signs of different core value(s) in the same nation? Isn't this purely an obvious case of amplified cultural mind-set and values at play in our nation?

I need answers to my questions from as many people as possible. Please, let us not feel offended by my frankness, I needed to drive home the point. Thanks all.

I'm STILL in shock, I never knew that a SUBJECT could be discussed on nairaland, solely with FACTS and INTELLIGENCE, without the usual name calling, insults & RAZZ people taking it over. I wish the owner of Nairaland, take advantage of this debate and use it to REBUILD the IMAGE of this SITE & TAKE IT TO GREATER HEIGHTS. If SANITY has been RESTORED, I hope to be back from my SABBATICAL. Obinoscopy and Katsumo, you guys IMPRESSED me.

I humbly respect the two debaters, they did a great job! But I sincerely could have voted for Obino if the audience is permitted to do so. Obino, kudos to your intellect. I knew the election was rigged, that's has been part of our culture. Now that the N1M cash prize had been awarded to Kat, dont worry as I will influence your ticket to be 2015 senate president. Warm up...