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Igbos Have Been Reintegrated Back Into Nigeria - Politics - Nairaland

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Igbos Have Been Reintegrated Back Into Nigeria by nduchucks: 1:51am On Nov 03, 2012
The article should have been titled "Igbos have been reintegrated back into Nigeria".



In an article he wrote for the UK’s Guardian newspaper last week, Nigeria’s acclaimed author Chinua Achebe said that after the Biafra-Nigeria civil war, “Igbos were not and continue not to be reintegrated into Nigeria, one of the main reasons for the country's continued backwardness.” How true is the claim that Igbos were not reintegrated back into Nigeria after the war?

IGBOS SHUNNED

After the war ended in 1970, life in official and government circles was certainly grim for Igbos. There was an undeclared glass ceiling beyond which Igbos could never hope to rise in the government or military. Many Igbos claimed that they were being unofficially punished for their secession attempt.

Igbos complained bitterly that nearly 40 years after Nigeria’s independence, and 30 years after the civil war, no Igbo had ever been appointed Defence Minister, Minister of Internal Affairs, Chief of Army Staff, Chief of Defence Staff or Inspector-General of Police. It seemed that there was an unwritten consensus to keep Igbos out of prominent positions.

Igbos were punished not only for the civil war, but were punished also for the January 1966 military coup staged mostly by Igbo officers, in which the north’s revered senior political and military leaders were murdered. That seared a permanent distrust of Igbo soldiers into the Nigerian army’s psyche. That distrust was amplified during almost 30 years of military rule, almost all of which were under northern led, or northern dominated military governments.

THINGS IMPROVE UNDER OBASANJO

However things improved for Igbos after Nigeria returned to democracy in 1999. Democracy has been much kinder to the Igbos than military rule was. Ironically it was the much maligned President Olusegun Obasanjo that did most to reintegrate Igbos. He appointed Igbos to head the ministry of finance, Central Bank of Nigeria, and the Director-General of the Nigerian Stock Exchange was also Igbo (Ngozi Okonjo-Iweala, Charles Chukwuma Soludo and Ndidi Okereke-Onyuike). Heading these three portfolios virtually left Igbos in control of Nigeria’s economy and monetary policy. That economic dominance remains as today Okonjo-Iweala has returned as Finance Minister, and Bright Okogu is the Director-General of the Budget Office.

In addition, Obasanjo appointed Fabian Osuji, Chinwe Obaji and Obiageli Ezekwesili (all Igbos) in succession as the Minister of Education, and Dora Akunyili as the Director-General of the National Agency for Food and Drug Administration and Control.

Later, Obasanjo broke a taboo by appointing an Igbo: Thomas Aguiyi-Ironsi (the son of Nigeria’s first military head of state, Johnson Aguiyi-Ironsi) as the Defence Minister. After Obasanjo left office his successor President Yar’Adua appointed Mike Okiro to become the first Igbo Inspector-General of Police in Nigeria’s history. When Okiro retired, he was succeeded by another Igbo – Ogbonnaya Onovo. Yar’Adua also appointed Ojo Maduekwe as the Minister of Foreign Affairs.

President Obasanjo made history by appointing Air Marshal Paul Dike as Nigeria’s first Igbo service chief in 2006, when he appointed Dike as the Chief of Air Staff. Two years later, Dike made history again when President Yar’Adua appointed him Chief of Defence Staff, thereby making Dike the first Igbo Chief of Defence Staff and first Igbo our star General (when Dike was promoted to Air Chief Marshal) in Nigeria’s history. Igbos’ reintegration back into the military was completed in 2010, when President Goodluck Jonathan appointed Lt-General Azubuike Ihejirika as Nigeria’s first ever Igbo Chief of Army Staff. A few days ago, President Jonathan also appointed Vice-Admiral Dele Joseph Ezeoba as the first Igbo Chief of Naval Staff. Two of the three military services (army and navy) are now headed by Igbos.

Additionally seven Igbos have been Senate President (AKA citizen number 3 in Nigeria) for a combined total of 14 years. Azikiwe and Nwafor Orizu held the position from 1960-66, and Evan Enwerem, Chuba Okadigbo, Pius Anyim, Adolphus Wabara, and Ken Nnamani held the position for 8 consecutive years between 1999-2007.

OTHER HISTORICAL POSITIONS

Also, in past governments Igbos held the following key posts: Vice-President (Alex Ekwueme), Speaker of the House of Representatives (Jaja Wachuku and Edwin Ume-Ezeoke), Chief of General Staff (Commodore Ebitu Ukiwe, as deputy to the military head of state), and Chairman of the Federal Civil Service (Professor Kesandu Ogan).

LAND IN ABUJA

Some might argue that the above examples apply only to the public sector. In the private sector, the former Minister of the Federal Capital Territory revealed that nearly 75% of the land in Nigeria’s capital Abuja, is owned by Igbos.

THE BIG ONE

Objectively, the key prominent portfolio that has eluded Igbos is the presidency. That is the final “big one” that is missing, and the final frontier for Igbos. [the Igbos on NL are not helping this cause - mumus]

Labaru
Re: Igbos Have Been Reintegrated Back Into Nigeria by Ngodigha: 1:58am On Nov 03, 2012
Why start this idiotic thread to divert the attention of people from the justice that has been served to that mass murderer-Shuwa.
Shuwa has been gunned down like a chicken in his house. This is the time to celebrate.
Re: Igbos Have Been Reintegrated Back Into Nigeria by naptu2: 2:16am On Nov 03, 2012
Admiral Allison Madueke?
Re: Igbos Have Been Reintegrated Back Into Nigeria by NegroNtns(m): 2:55am On Nov 03, 2012
Ngodigha: Why start this idiotic thread to divert the attention of people from the justice that has been served to that mass murderer-Shuwa.
Shuwa has been gunned down like a chicken in his house. This is the time to celebrate.

Baboon, step aside. angry
Re: Igbos Have Been Reintegrated Back Into Nigeria by NegroNtns(m): 3:27am On Nov 03, 2012
_chucks,

I wish to speak on behalf of Igbos on this topic.

It is an insult to tell a bona fide member of the nation that the rights of belonging taken away from them has been paid back with consolation appointments in federal bureaus.

This open up a dialogue on rights of congression and assembly. What paercentage of the country is owned by each constituting group or ethnic bloc? What index of measurement or social factor (historicals included) should guide the apportionement of the proprietary rights....is it population, land mass, manpower and productivity, the treaties and agreements with Britain, natural resources?

What gives entitlement to some and denies it to others in an assembly of people such as ours?

Who determines the orderliness and social organizing for the society and where is the source stream of the creed and morals by which the standards are cut?

Plenty of questions to ask.....
Re: Igbos Have Been Reintegrated Back Into Nigeria by Standing5(m): 4:36am On Nov 03, 2012
Good to know that Igbos were integrated for good reasons from the non-Igbo point of view.
Re: Igbos Have Been Reintegrated Back Into Nigeria by nduchucks: 5:57am On Nov 03, 2012
Negro_Ntns: ndu_chucks,

I wish to speak on behalf of Igbos on this topic.

It is an insult to tell a bona fide member of the nation that the rights of belonging taken away from them has been paid back with consolation appointments in federal bureaus.


There is nothing insulting about stating facts. The article looked at appointments in federal bureaus alone but does not state that that is the only way to look at the issue of reintegration, in order to reach a meaningful and reasonable conclusion.

Negro_Ntns:

This open up a dialogue on rights of congression and assembly. What paercentage of the country is owned by each constituting group or ethnic bloc? What index of measurement or social factor (historicals included) should guide the apportionement of the proprietary rights....is it population, land mass, manpower and productivity, the treaties and agreements with Britain, natural resources?


This does not open up dialogue on rights and assembly, or any other constitutionally provided right. There is no need to dialogue on this matter since the Igbo man enjoys those constitutional provisions as much as any Nigerian. I'm sure you know that the rights of the Igbos to assemble were not infringed upon when some of them, specifically members of the Biafra Zionist Movement, a group which had announced its plan to re-declare the Republic of Biafra in Enugu, recently demonstrated in Lagos while criminally displaying the biafran flag.

I remind you that they were allowed to enjoy their constitutional rights to assemble by the authorities. It was an Igbo group, MASSOB, which took the law in its own hands and abducted leaders of the protest.


Negro_Ntns:
What gives entitlement to some and denies it to others in an assembly of people such as ours?

Who determines the orderliness and social organizing for the society and where is the source stream of the creed and morals by which the standards are cut?

Plenty of questions to ask.....

Good questions. The Nigerians who are denied these "entitlements" are the poor, the unemployed graduates, the Almajiris and other down trodden fellow citizens. They come from all parts of the country but in greater number, up North. These denials, enable by elites such as yourself, because you fold your arms and allow the marginalization to continue, has resulted in the springing up of terrorists who hide behind fighting for these marginalized Nigerians. We all shouldn't be surprised if these groups enjoy the sympathy of the marginalized Nigerians you all choose to ignore.

The Igbos have been fully integrated back into Nigeria and they are succeeding in government and the private sector alike. They Igbos simply suffer from good leadership, just like the nation, at large, does.
Re: Igbos Have Been Reintegrated Back Into Nigeria by NegroNtns(m): 7:41am On Nov 03, 2012
ndu_chucks:

There is nothing insulting about stating facts. The article looked at appointments in federal bureaus alone but does not state that that is the only way to look at the issue of reintegration, in order to reach a meaningful and reasonable conclusion.

Why is it every Nigerian wants to hide under the cloak of facts ? What is it with our obsession on flashing out facts....it is as if by so doing our responsibility to the society is once and for all fulfilled and we can absolve our conscience of the guilt and inhumane reality that sorround us.

There is a reason a grown and unemployed man would go steel food to eat. The "fact" that he has commited theft and therefore violated a social order does not give the society a license to humiliate and lynch or burn him alive. Some would argue he should beg for money or food to eat.

Can we begin to state the "truth" for a change? If this article had done that they would have been more selective and erred on the side of responsible reporting than to throw out a narrow viewpoint which as you have correctly identified is one of many ways to assess and report the reintegration.

What do they now expect, for Igbos to give gratitude for getting appointments which in first place should not carry any ethnic restrictions?

Its like a father expecting his belligerent son to show gratitude that his name is included in the will. That's his right by birth.......its not a titled privilege.

So oga chucks, how can the author of this article help promote responsible journalism and the spirit of truth and reconciliation for the.path forward?

This does not open up dialogue on rights and assembly, or any other constitutionally provided right. There is no need to dialogue on this matter since the Igbo man enjoys those constitutional provisions as much as any Nigerian. I'm sure you know that the rights of the Igbos to assemble were not infringed upon when some of them, specifically members of the Biafra Zionist Movement, a group which had announced its plan to re-declare the Republic of Biafra in Enugu, recently demonstrated in Lagos while criminally displaying the biafran flag.

I remind you that they were allowed to enjoy their constitutional rights to assemble by the authorities. It was an Igbo group, MASSOB, which took the law in its own hands and abducted leaders of the protest.

Contrary to this belief of equal rights, I do want to share with you that the Igbo man suffers the most unfortunate outcome when talking about civil rights and protection for personal safety. In truth and with no prejudicial judgement I declare to you that Yorubaland offer to the Igbo man a far greater shelter and rest of mind and spirit than he would expect to get in his own home turf.....and not to mention the conditional tolerance he can expect in North. Igboman in Yorubaland has equal access and zero restrictions. Igboman in Alaigbo has to struggle to fit in, depending on his birth status as an osu or freeborn. We wont talk about Igboman in Hausaland......thats a hopeless risk.

So it is no surprise that the struggle for Biafran reawakening is held in Lagos with political fanfare and all. Fashola has repeatedly stood up to FG and advocated the democratic principle of free speech.....and through it all he had to endure insults from Igbos who see his emergence as a serious challenge for their 2015 opportunity to get the presidency, and so they attack his ideas.....but invariably they benefit from the promise of free and open speech curtailed and restricted everywhere else beside Yorubaland. If this rally had taken place in East the event would be raided by the Army and police and their oragnizers would not have been so lucky to enjoy the luxury of a soft and choreographed abduction designed to show proactive censure and self-correction and thereby keep boots and guns from coming for their heads.


Good questions. The Nigerians who are denied these "entitlements" are the poor, the unemployed graduates, the Almajiris and other down trodden fellow citizens. They come from all parts of the country but in greater number, up North. These denials, enable by elites such as yourself, because you fold your arms and allow the marginalization to continue, has resulted in the springing up of terrorists who hide behind fighting for these marginalized Nigerians. We all shouldn't be surprised if these groups enjoy the sympathy of the marginalized Nigerians you all choose to ignore.

The Igbos have been fully integrated back into Nigeria and they are succeeding in government and the private sector alike. They Igbos simply suffer from good leadership, just like the nation, at large, does.

Yes I agree that there need to be sustainable social programms designed to channel gainful employment and productivity. There are infrastructural projects that could be commissioned to uplift and repair the social soirit, but you see every intellectual and professional is preoccupied with protecting their relevance among their peers and associatea. They do this by looking for social issues to research and report on.....more data and tabulated facts upon the millions of facts already gathering dust in the archives and waiting for practical execution.

Do me a favor Alhaji Chucks and stop including almajiri in the list of those inneed of social support. There are two types of poverty, 1, circumstantial and involuntary; 2, voluntarily chosen path or self-inflicted. Almajiri is not involuntary.

Anyway, its always a pleasure to tackle the challenges you bring here. wink
Re: Igbos Have Been Reintegrated Back Into Nigeria by nduchucks: 7:31pm On Nov 03, 2012
Negro_Ntns:
Why is it every Nigerian wants to hide under the cloak of facts ? What is it with our obsession on flashing out facts....it is as if by so doing our responsibility to the society is once and for all fulfilled and we can absolve our conscience of the guilt and inhumane reality that sorround us.

There is a reason a grown and unemployed man would go steel food to eat. The "fact" that he has commited theft and therefore violated a social order does not give the society a license to humiliate and lynch or burn him alive. Some would argue he should beg for money or food to eat.

Can we begin to state the "truth" for a change?

You have now turned philosophical on me, but you did not take your line of reasoning here, to its logical conclusion. Since truth matters more than facts as you posited, I’m sure you’ll agree with me that it is truthful to state that no one had any say on how his/her brain was wired during creation.

Additionally the wiring of the brain affects one’s intelligence and choices. Thus grown thief and unemployed man who stole and violated a social order made a choice to do so, based on the wiring of his brain which he had nothing to do with. What you therefore should be satisfied with, in the name of truthfulness, is the release of all criminals from prison, since they became criminals because of choices they made, due essentially, to the wiring of their brains – wiring which they did not put in place.

Don’t try to dodge by claiming that you do not believe in creationism, cheesy

Negro_Ntns:

In truth and with no prejudicial judgement I declare to you that Yorubaland offer to the Igbo man a far greater shelter and rest of mind and spirit than he would expect to get in his own home turf.....and not to mention the conditional tolerance he can expect in North. Igboman in Yorubaland has equal access and zero restrictions. Igboman in Alaigbo has to struggle to fit in, depending on his birth status as an osu or freeborn. We wont talk about Igboman in Hausaland......thats a hopeless risk.

So it is no surprise that the struggle for Biafran reawakening is held in Lagos with political fanfare and all. Fashola has repeatedly stood up to FG and advocated the democratic principle of free speech.....and through it all he had to endure insults from Igbos who see his emergence as a serious challenge for their 2015 opportunity to get the presidency, and so they attack his ideas.....but invariably they benefit from the promise of free and open speech curtailed and restricted everywhere else beside Yorubaland. If this rally had taken place in East the event would be raided by the Army and police and their oragnizers would not have been so lucky to enjoy the luxury of a soft and choreographed abduction designed to show proactive censure and self-correction and thereby keep boots and guns from coming for their heads.

The above is filled with a bunch of bullsh*t that I don’t even know where to begin.

I agree with you when you state that the Igboman in Alaigbo has to struggle to fit in, depending on his birth status as an osu or freeborn, but I ‘ll add that the Igboman is as sheltered in Yorubaland as in Hausaland. Infact, the Igboman enjoys more economic freedom in the North than anywhere else in Nigeria.

To support your erroneous claim that the Igboman is not as sheltered in the North as in the SW, you people sight sectarian violence and BH type violence against the Igbos up North. You conveniently fail to mention that more Northerners suffer and die as a result of the said violence than Igbo/Yorubas/ and others, combined.

Why do you think there are more Igbos in the North than in any other region in Nigeria or the world for that matter?

It is an insult to Ndiigbo for you to come up here and state that Lagos and Fashola stood up for Igbo rights when they just deported Igbos from Lagos to the East a few weeks ago.

Negro_Ntns:
Do me a favor Alhaji Chucks and stop including almajiri in the list of those inneed of social support. There are two types of poverty, 1, circumstantial and involuntary; 2, voluntarily chosen path or self-inflicted. Almajiri is not involuntary.

The above is another proof that you belong to the elite who suffers from a 'disconnect from the masses'. How can you state, with a straight face, that Almajiri poverty is a voluntarily chosen path or self inflicted?

The victims of the bad implementation of the Almajiri system in Nigeria are kids, youths who are powerless and are typically forced into the badly implemented system. You elites should be ashamed of yourselves for not standing up for these children who are used, abused, dumped, and programmed to become poor and tools of politicians, and terrorists, alike.

The Almajiris are the most marginalized Nigerians and it is high time, you rich ones started helping them out. They are Allah’s children and sooner or later, you people will be punished for perpetrating all these atrocities against the Almajiris or for enabling the said atrocities.
Re: Igbos Have Been Reintegrated Back Into Nigeria by Dede1(m): 8:56pm On Nov 03, 2012
naptu2: Admiral Allison Madueke?

You are spot on, dude. He was a former CONS. Some “copy and paste” addicts may quote this article as a source.

1 Like

Re: Igbos Have Been Reintegrated Back Into Nigeria by Dede1(m): 9:10pm On Nov 03, 2012
Negro_Ntns: _chucks,

I wish to speak on behalf of Igbos on this topic.

It is an insult to tell a bona fide member of the nation that the rights of belonging taken away from them has been paid back with consolation appointments in federal bureaus.

This open up a dialogue on rights of congression and assembly. What paercentage of the country is owned by each constituting group or ethnic bloc? What index of measurement or social factor (historicals included) should guide the apportionement of the proprietary rights....is it population, land mass, manpower and productivity, the treaties and agreements with Britain, natural resources?

What gives entitlement to some and denies it to others in an assembly of people such as ours?

Who determines the orderliness and social organizing for the society and where is the source stream of the creed and morals by which the standards are cut?

Plenty of questions to ask.....



Sometimes, you drip with abundant stupidity. It is clear your psychotic head was not in order when you conjured the following nonsensical statement –“It is an insult to tell a bona fide member of the nation that the rights of belonging taken away from them has been paid back with consolation appointments in federal bureaus.”.

Ndigbo and easterners decided to leave the contraption called Nigeria when their inalienable right to basic freedom was breached in certain parts of the country. In the process, they fought to check the idiotic aggression of some Nigerians. There was no time their right to belong to cesspit called Nigeria was ever taken away from them.


Rather what transpired in Nigeria since the end of the war remained that people who found themselves on the victorious side along with Britain and USSR became scared of the unknown.
Re: Igbos Have Been Reintegrated Back Into Nigeria by nduchucks: 9:24pm On Nov 03, 2012
Dede1:

You are spot on, dude. He was a former CONS. Some “copy and paste” addicts may quote this article as a source.

Not naming Rear Admiral Allison Madueke in the article takes nothing away from it but adds to the accuracy of the conclusions reached by the article's author.
Re: Igbos Have Been Reintegrated Back Into Nigeria by Dede1(m): 9:51pm On Nov 03, 2012
ndu_chucks:

Not naming Rear Admiral Allison Madueke in the article takes nothing away from it but adds to the accuracy of the conclusions reached by the article's author.


It does take away something from the article especially when it referred Vice-Admiral Dele Joseph Ezeoba as the first Igbo Chief of Naval Staff. In future, average Nigerians will argue that President Jonathan also appointed first Igbo CONS. I have read such rubbish on this forum.
Re: Igbos Have Been Reintegrated Back Into Nigeria by nduchucks: 10:00pm On Nov 03, 2012
Dede1:

It does take away something from article especially when it referred Vice-Admiral Dele Joseph Ezeoba as the first Igbo Chief of Naval Staff. In future, average Nigerians will argue that President Jonathan also appointed first Igbo CONS. I have read such rubbish on this forum.

The point is, an Igboman has occupied that position.
Re: Igbos Have Been Reintegrated Back Into Nigeria by Onlytruth(m): 12:16am On Nov 04, 2012
ndu_chucks:

The above is filled with a bunch of bullsh*t that I don’t even know where to begin.

I agree with you when you state that the Igboman in Alaigbo has to struggle to fit in, depending on his birth status as an osu or freeborn, but I ‘ll add that the Igboman is as sheltered in Yorubaland as in Hausaland. Infact, the Igboman enjoys more economic freedom in the North than anywhere else in Nigeria.

To support your erroneous claim that the Igboman is not as sheltered in the North as in the SW, you people sight sectarian violence and BH type violence against the Igbos up North. You conveniently fail to mention that more Northerners suffer and die as a result of the said violence than Igbo/Yorubas/ and others, combined.

Why do you think there are more Igbos in the North than in any other region in Nigeria or the world for that matter?

It is an insult to Ndiigbo for you to come up here and state that Lagos and Fashola stood up for Igbo rights when they just deported Igbos from Lagos to the East a few weeks ago.

Mai gida, I agree with your understanding of the Negro_nts's mindset. Save your breath because I don't think he is redeemable.
As for the bolded words, I wonder what freedom is, if not that you and your businesses are secure. I may agree that there are big numbers of Igbo in the North (I don't know about these days though, it used to be very high before), I hesitate to agree that there are more Igbo in the North than say Cameroun, or Congo DRC, talk less of USA. So, to say that there are more Igbo in the North than anywhere else in the world is a HUGE STRETCH.


The above is another proof that you belong to the elite who suffers from a 'disconnect from the masses'. How can you state, with a straight face, that Almajiri poverty is a voluntarily chosen path or self inflicted?

The victims of the bad implementation of the Almajiri system in Nigeria are kids, youths who are powerless and are typically forced into the badly implemented system. You elites should be ashamed of yourselves for not standing up for these children who are used, abused, dumped, and programmed to become poor and tools of politicians, and terrorists, alike.

The Almajiris are the most marginalized Nigerians and it is high time, you rich ones started helping them out. They are Allah’s children and sooner or later, you people will be punished for perpetrating all these atrocities against the Almajiris or for enabling the said atrocities.

Bros every child is God's child, rich or poor. If you agree, then, don't you think that the legacy of child abuse was laid and the seed sowed in Biafra when innocent kids were starved to death by your desperate military commanders who wanted victory by all means?
Fair is fair; and if the children of Biafra had to starve to death for Nigeria to obtain victory, do you think that the pepertrators would think twice before repeating same crimes in their own backyard? As long as they are "winning" (read remain relevant and prospering in Nigeria)? Of course not. That is why Almajiri system will endure until all those heartless civil war participants die off; then we shall all begin to lay a new foundation for our children. My 2 cents though.
Re: Igbos Have Been Reintegrated Back Into Nigeria by ebere1712: 1:07am On Nov 04, 2012
Igbo reintegrated into what what?? by whom? ndu_chucks is a clown. How can you be reintegrated into your own homeland. You mohameddian clowns didn't do squat. Integrate your almajiris first then come and integrate Igbos. Next thing ndu_chuckss would say he built my house for me. The other day it was an yoroslave offering biafra aid in his mgbati dreams; now it is ndu_chuck and his fellow cows reintegrating the sons of CHUKWU. I don't blame you guys at all. Nigeria has made you MA*D shocked
Re: Igbos Have Been Reintegrated Back Into Nigeria by NegroNtns(m): 4:28am On Nov 04, 2012
ndu_chucks:

You have now turned philosophical on me, but you did not take your line of reasoning here, to its logical conclusion. Since truth matters more than facts as you posited, I’m sure you’ll agree with me that it is truthful to state that no one had any say on how his/her brain was wired during creation.

If you want to dig that deep into it I am happy to share that the brain itself has zero reference at time of birth and the action of the individual through the material world is directed , with growing age, from an external reference point.

In contrast or in counter-balance (paired and opposite), an inner intuition guides the individual's feel through the metaphysical. I should not bore you or anyone with it but this aspect of human make-up is well documented in anthroposophy. The will, not the brain, contains the human endowment for making choices and every living human is credentialed to live his/her will.

I hope you will broaden your understanding of human nature and begin to respond to human needs from your heart, as opposed to giving a text book speech from your brain.


Additionally the wiring of the brain affects one’s intelligence and choices. Thus grown thief and unemployed man who stole and violated a social order made a choice to do so, based on the wiring of his brain which he had nothing to do with. What you therefore should be satisfied with, in the name of truthfulness, is the release of all criminals from prison, since they became criminals because of choices they made, due essentially, to the wiring of their brains – wiring which they did not put in place.

Mankind is weak and vulnerable when he lives by his will alone. He needs divine salvation. In a social order, justice and fairness is part of this salvation. You will never hear any learned and wise jurist commit to delivering equity...never! Only foolish ones promise equity in justice.

Criminals in prison had been in front of the justice and in all fairness are serving a sentence. That is the salvation of a working and healthy society teaching and uplifting the common bond of humanity in us and that is where truth lies, not in releasing imprisoned criminals whom you believe are victims of impulsive choices.

I am not advocating bad behavior and you trivialized my point by juxtapositiining it with the motives of convicted criminals. My point is that our society has become desensitized from the passions and fire of living a inner prompting to do the right thing. We are so much sold to the idea that "facts" are a path to salvation; which it's not. This immunity is incremental, the tighter we wind and wrap up in "fact-living", the further away we distance from reality. Some peoole are so wrap tight in fact living that they mistake realities around them and mis-label them "facts", when actually they are staring at truth.

When we lynch and or douse a hungry jobless man in flammable liquid and set him ablaze for stealing food, we deny him salvation. The denial in us is brought about by the suppression of the once burning flame and passion to serve and preserve......fact worshipping has robbed our humanity to protect its higher ideals. We need a balanced view and a balanced sheet on how we account for facts and truths in our living societl.


Don’t try to dodge by claiming that you do not believe in creationism, cheesy

Creationism,......What is that? I dont even know what you are talking about.


The above is filled with a bunch of bullsh*t that I don’t even know where to begin.

Alhamdulillah, you saw and responded to it. grin

I agree with you when you state that the Igboman in Alaigbo has to struggle to fit in, depending on his birth status as an osu or freeborn, but I ‘ll add that the Igboman is as sheltered in Yorubaland as in Hausaland. Infact, the Igboman enjoys more economic freedom in the North than anywhere else in Nigeria.

I ought to demand your eye for such a daring fabrication equating true liberal ideals in the West to conditional freedoms in North.

Can Igboman open stores within the birni walls and gates?
Can Igboman sell pork within the birni walls and gates?
Can Igboman obtain license and sell liquor in birni?

In West Igboman is not restricted to Sabo as he is in Northern Sabon-Gari.


To support your erroneous claim that the Igboman is not as sheltered in the North as in the SW, you people sight sectarian violence and BH type violence against the Igbos up North. You conveniently fail to mention that more Northerners suffer and die as a result of the said violence than Igbo/Yorubas/ and others, combined.

The sectarian violence itself is an offshoot of the intolerance for Igboman and what he represents. The killing of Northerners is a necessary housekeeping to ordain a new creed and awakening on the home turf....it is selective and targeted at shaping a voluntary turnover for new community conscience. So it is motivated for emergence of a new ideological identity and belonging and to the extent that Northerners cheer it then it serves as a patriotic cause for them. Igbos have no stake in it and are political victims. They ought to start collecting reparations from the FG from the day it declared state of emergency in North uptill the day the status is lifted and security is returned and they are no longer victims of civil discrimination.

This is the cause one would expect to find dede and onlytruth fighting and advocating online, instead they continously display their moronic immaturity and incapacity to match up with others on national politics.


Why do you think there are more Igbos in the North than in any other region in Nigeria or the world for that matter?

....of what value is their quantity if while there their quality is curtailed?


It is an insult to Ndiigbo for you to come up here and state that Lagos and Fashola stood up for Igbo rights when they just deported Igbos from Lagos to the East a few weeks ago.

God forbid that Fashola or any Yoruba governor should stand up for Igbo rights. Our Governors stand up for Yoruba rights. Yoruba customs embraces unity in diversity......nonYorubas on Yoruba soil enjoy by extension the same rights that our Governors defend for the soil.

The deported Igbos are risks to the liberties and well being of the well intentioned and productive Igbo in Lagos. Fashola had to filter out the contaminants and send them out before they spoil the whole basket. He did so indiscriminately......Yorubas were also sent out . No Northern Governor had ever sent away a terrorist or jihadist for proven atrocities against well meaning and tax paying Igbos living on their soil. Instead, they watch and allow jihadists chase Igbos back to their home states.


The above is another proof that you belong to the elite who suffers from a 'disconnect from the masses'. How can you state, with a straight face, that Almajiri poverty is a voluntarily chosen path or self inflicted?

The victims of the bad implementation of the Almajiri system in Nigeria are kids, youths who are powerless and are typically forced into the badly implemented system. You elites should be ashamed of yourselves for not standing up for these children who are used, abused, dumped, and programmed to become poor and tools of politicians, and terrorists, alike.

The Almajiris are the most marginalized Nigerians and it is high time, you rich ones started helping them out. They are Allah’s children and sooner or later, you people will be punished for perpetrating all these atrocities against the Almajiris or for enabling the said atrocities.

You continue to push almajiri issue as a national problem.....I will continue to counter it as a regional problem.

I will not go into the root meaning and social role of almajiri, I covered the topic twice on nl so far....the last time was around when the debate on islamic banking was hot and i opened a topic to talk on almajiri.

Almajiri is intimate with Sharia and is an outlet for one of the five pillars of Islam, that of zakat or charity or tithe, to serve the community at large. It is also a safety net for wealth redistribution......a necessary anchor for dissipating social rebellion. The Hausa muslim scholars and Yoruba muslim scholars know what almajiri is and they know its value in the community. Christians are unaware because for most part they close their mind to anything Islamic. There are many books and research papers in the public domain on almajiri. If i say Dalai Llama as a boy was an almajiri some of you will call me conspiracy theorist. Tibetan acolytes, before they graduate into monks, pass through an order very similar to the almajiri order. Dangote's grandfather, Alhaji Sanusi Dantata was an almajiri.....we have had two presidents, in fact three, that were in almajiri order as young boys. So there is no shame in being an almajiri.....but because Nigerians were educated backwards we put the wrong priorities on our head and champion failures instead of success.

For the purpose of clarity here I want to declare for you why the almajiri order must remain a Northern issue.

If the Southerner should fall asleep and allow the North to make almajiri a national institution, then by default it will carry a mandate and serve as a parallel alternative or, perhaps a head start, into elementary schools.

For purpose of troubleshooting, the following must at minimum be expected in every state of the federation.

1. almajiri madrassahs or schools
2. state funding or sponsorshio
3. curriculums designed in alingment with sharia
4. faculty of muslim scholars only
5. study based (fixed location, no migration and street begging stopped)
6. tiered-level academic instruction and advancement (competition between arabic and english for lesson delivery and communication)

The schools are already in operation in North. If proponents like _chucks are allowed to force this into becoming a national issue we will all co own the almajiri order. In that case, if that were to happen, it will not derail the Northern society, neither does it derail West, Yorubas are good at "live and let live", the East people will be mostly impacted because their state government and consequently their society must now support a sharia based program.

Dede and onlytruth are blind to these visions.....they are writing textbook grammar while cowherder is scheming to put sharia in alaigbo, by jihad or by a congressional bill.

This picture is an omen of things to come..... grin

Re: Igbos Have Been Reintegrated Back Into Nigeria by nduchucks: 3:55pm On Nov 04, 2012
Negro_Ntns:
If you want to dig that deep into it I am happy to share that the brain itself has zero reference at time of birth and the action of the individual through the material world is directed , with growing age, from an external reference point.

In contrast or in counter-balance (paired and opposite), an inner intuition guides the individual's feel through the metaphysical. I should not bore you or anyone with it but this aspect of human make-up is well documented in anthroposophy. The will, not the brain, contains the human endowment for making choices and every living human is credentialed to live his/her will.

I hope you will broaden your understanding of human nature and begin to respond to human needs from your heart, as opposed to giving a text book speech from your brain.

It is interesting that you actually believe that Anthroposophy well documents the idea that “an inner intuition guides the individual’s feel through the metaphysical”. The founder of Anthroposophy, Rudolf Steiner, thought of his Anthroposophy as a "spiritual science." He taught that there is a kind of spiritual perception that works independently of the body and the bodily senses.

Pray tell, how did you and other Anthroposophists, document this “spiritual science” or the concept that the will and not the brain “contains the human endowment for making choices and every living human is credentialed to live his/her will”

The truth is, this is just another theoretical gobbledygook with no scientific or even non-scientific basis for its acceptance.

The idea that there exists a physical or non physical part of humans called the will, or the “heart” which is responsible for the choices made by man, and that the will/heart is solely responsible for this, and not the brain, as you stated, is another boldface lie.

FYI: The heart is nothing but a pump, which works just like your ordinary water pump in a water treatment plant. Like the said pump, if it is primed daily, its efficiency improves and it lasts longer – this is why we are told to exercise (prime the heart) so that we can live longer.

Feelings, choices, e.t.c. have absolutely nothing to do with the heart. This is the reason why the first words to come out of the mouths of people who have just received heart transplants, to their spouses, is “I love you”. You see, the brain was not replaced so the love remains. Secondly, even when all organs of the body are still fully functional but the brain is not (brain death), it becomes impossible to love, to feel, make choices, and have free will.

Again, if we are to take your line of reasoning to its logical conclusion, all prisoners should be released, ASAP. Their crimes were not their faults; after all, these criminals had no say whatsoever on the composition of their genome or brain design.


I will respond to the rest of your post later.
Re: Igbos Have Been Reintegrated Back Into Nigeria by NegroNtns(m): 5:49pm On Nov 04, 2012
ndu_chucks:

It is interesting that you actually believe that Anthroposophy well documents the idea that “an inner intuition guides the individual’s feel through the metaphysical”. The founder of Anthroposophy, Rudolf Steiner, thought of his Anthroposophy as a "spiritual science." He taught that there is a kind of spiritual perception that works independently of the body and the bodily senses.

Pray tell, how did you and other Anthroposophists, document this “spiritual science” or the concept that the will and not the brain “contains the human endowment for making choices and every living human is credentialed to live his/her will”

Documentation of spiritual science will be answered in a response attached to next quotation.

In response to this quotation, when you go into official contracts or attach your signature to a written document or swear to an oath of duty or obligation society is counting on you to do so "willfully" and without duress. The society hopes that at the instance of your commitment, the final point of decision making, you will put your fickle brain aside so your being can understand the full weight of responsibility you are undertaking as a member of society and humanity.

When a person is called into court docket to adress the court every statement he/she makes is processed with their brain but their truthfullness or otherwise is solicited through the will.

In everyday conversation we use the word "I will" as a determinant for what the person intends or does not intend.

You are confusing thought processing, which happens in the brain, with choice and decision making which happens in the will.

This is supported by many holy books and scriptues and manuscripts of nature.

The Ifa corpus
The Baghadvagita
The Bible
The Quran
The Torah

They all and independently address the will and implore mankind that the will is the voice of the conscience.

This talk started from fairness to Igbos and how we are massaging their egos with consolation prices instead of dealing with them in fairness and conscientiously. I think we shiuld not go too far away from that issue.


The truth is, this is just another theoretical gobbledygook with no scientific or even non-scientific basis for its acceptance.

I am surprised that a well educated person will make this quoted statement. I am glad you know about Steiner, you must alsi be familiar with biodynamic farming. Biodynamic farming is practiced in America and in their new craze for organic farm products consumers are demanding products grown on Steiner based methods.

You see our fore fathers practiced biodynamic farming. We abandoned it because any method of living that did not receive white man's endorsement is a way of livig that is ungodly and it will corrupt our academic successes if we did not keep a distance from it. Well, breaking news.......the whiteman has finally seen the benefits of biodynamic farming, thanks to anthroposophy and models introduced by Steiner. Slowly, the affection of whiteman for biodynamic grown products will trickle down and find its way to Africa and we can be led back to using farming methods our forefathers used to enrich the soil, enrich crop and enrich and nurture the body for sustained health and longevity.

So because you do not know about these things does not in any way make it a "theoretical gobbledygook". grin


The idea that there exists a physical or non physical part of humans called the will, or the “heart” which is responsible for the choices made by man, and that the will/heart is solely responsible for this, and not the brain, as you stated, is another boldface lie.

FYI: The heart is nothing but a pump, which works just like your ordinary water pump in a water treatment plant. Like the said pump, if it is primed daily, its efficiency improves and it lasts longer – this is why we are told to exercise (prime the heart) so that we can live longer.

Feelings, choices, e.t.c. have absolutely nothing to do with the heart. This is the reason why the first words to come out of the mouths of people who have just received heart transplants, to their spouses, is “I love you”. You see, the brain was not replaced so the love remains. Secondly, even when all organs of the body are still fully functional but the brain is not (brain death), it becomes impossible to love, to feel, make choices, and have free will.

I laugh at your analogy of the heart and a water pump. Is it not amazing to you that the treatment of the life sustaining liquid, in this case water, took its inspirational design from another life sustaining organ in the human body?

Exercise is not what sustains the heart my friend. Western education has sold it to you that by exercising you promote health and longevity. This is because they live a lifestyle that move them around on multiwheeled vehicles and household gadgets that mechanically perform chores that otherwise encourage bending, stooping, stretching, kneeling, twisting and so on......they do not get enough of kinetic motion in their body so they supplement it with exercise. Separate whiteman bullshyyt from natural truth and stop preaching nonsense.

No one has been in the mind of brain dead patients to report back wheyher or not they have feelings. Your statement on that issue is nothing but a conjecture. Little children whose brain are yet to develop respond to love. A baby smiles in response to show of affection even it has yet to recognize its relative presence.

Heart transplant is a physical change and does not impact the will ir the love or feelings in the human being undergoing the transplant. You are pushing into human sacredness which I already said i will not bore people with. So I will stop here and not go deeper.

Again, if we are to take your line of reasoning to its logical conclusion, all prisoners should be released, ASAP. Their crimes were not their faults; after all, these criminals had no say whatsoever on the composition of their genome or brain design.

Thats not at the root of my point on why we deny salvation to offenders. I am yet to hear of a mob anywhere in Nigeria setting fire to a murderer but plenty people have been set ablaze and killed for petty offense like stealing. We are yet to set ablaze a rapist but we will set ablaze a man caught stealing bread. No one should summarily killed without first getting a chance to be saved and redeemed through the court system. This is how orderliness in society should work. People will understand the imperative of orderliness if they comprehend how their own being work in exchange with that of others in society. This knowledge of self discovery is blocked by a new age mantra of "fact building", "fact checking, "fact sourcing".........truth is abandoned for illusive facts and models. The need to respond warmly and conscientiously to issues where even an ethnic populatiin is almost completely displaced from its own homeland. The overwhelming presence of Igbo in West and North itself is a cry for help to reintegrate. The sacrifice to them is the homeland they abandined......what sacrifice would we make to help reintegrate them and resettle them back on their ancestral land?

The West is sacrificing a lot to this cause, the North is not.....there are many ways in which Igboman can be a Nigerian again and consolation appointments is a very small part of that. How can mallam chucks help reintegrate the Igboman into Nigeria and into their soil?

I hope you read your own signature and reflect before you respond to this challenge. grin

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