I want all the rational entities here, the scripture-worms, the book-worms, the tympamic warlords, and the etcetra-etcetras. Catholics in particular.
The journey to the old paths is about to be initiated. In this thread, the bridge to babel will be disjointed, even though, rains of slowpokes may reign.
This house is in peril, the stone the builders rejected has remained rejected. This is my way of sanitizing the church. If we can't take care of us, who will?
Catholics, let's reason together. Penticostals, orthodox, agnostics, atheists can join. But have in mind the bible is our reference.
Trolls steer clear.

Statues For Worship
The claim to its origin emanated from:
Exodus 25:18-19
Numbers 21:8-9
1kings 6:23-29
This is a mind-control initiative, as well as a disguised form of idol worship.
Oh! Please don't get angry now, this journey is still far.
Our subconscious mind can be quite assimilating. Once it gets even a glimpse of a thing for a repeated time, we begin to lose sustenance in its absence. Where is the illuminati when you need them?
The idea of images, according to us, is in the power of symbolism and hebrews 13:7. Lies.
Let's x-ray the verses up there for precision.
I) Exodus 25:18-19:' make two winged creatures of hammered gold, one for each of the lid'
The point 'we' miss here is that there was an orderer(God) 25vs1. We sideline that important determinant factor. God, the orderer was giving an order which must be obeyed.
In our case, who ordered our church(catholic) to make statues? A man. Who's man to know better the creators choice of worship? Is it biblically correct? No. So, why practise it?
One thing is certain. For our christainity to have control the bible must be without control.
II) Numbers 21:18-19:' then the lord said to moses.......'. I need not say more. The uncaused one was as usual doing his thing.
Their is a difference between God asking man to do a thing, and man thinking God will like a thing. While former gives life in abundant, the later takes from it.
III) 1 Kings 6:23:'two winged creatures were made of olive wood and placed, each one 4.4metres tall'
It seems no orderer is here. So yeah, the catholic church is justified? No. Don't go that way brother.
The temple was built in accordance with the 'taste' of God. He asked and pressed for it. Definitely, he must have given the manual.
We've been living scripts of men whose interest is not for our interest. Unless we rise and succumb, the church will be succumbed.
The advent of statues came with, emperor constantine, merging christainity with the idolators of the time in other to get a central satisfying religion. Though the goal achieved, the effect disastrous.
Broadly, we still stench of idolatory.
If the goal was to make us remember heroes past, we've achieved more. Check our treasure box: mental slavery, partial idolatory and above all, the big bang for atheism.
I will never venerate an image.

THE PROBLEM OF MARY
The mother of God. Really? Yes, really. If you believe in the trinity, you are bereft of option.
But, that's far from the problem.
Among all, this one is the most painful.
The place of mary in 'our' hearts is now golden. I'm not trying to take anything away from her, but trying not to add.
It is very annoying when you are called a mary-worshipper. I don't blame anybody, because even in our dressing, it can easily be seen why we are so addressed.
Why us? Am I really asking? Simples. We've glorified mary so much that even our glory for God has become insignificant.
Is the hail mary prayer biblical? No. Why was it invented or as some will say 'revealed' in the first place?
You know what? Any prayer that does not correspond to the lord's prayer is a SCAM. Hope you understand what I mean?
We are at home with repetation.
Mattew 6:7: ' when you pray do not use a lot of meaningless words, as the pagans do. Are we pagans? Maybe, we are.
Check this out:
'hail mary full of grace the lord is with you, blessed are thou among women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb jesus',
'holy mary mother of God pray for us sinners now and the hour of our death'. Repeat this for 150 times and tell me the result. While the former is repeating what elizabeth(mother of john the baptist), the later blaspheming.
I am saddened by this. Modern paganism at play. Where do we place christ in all we do?
Somebody need to speak up. My catholic people, if we are to follow a way, it better be the narrow way(jesus christ), any other way to the father is wide.

Enjoying this Sir.. Following...

The Pope's Infallibility
The immunity to error. To us, the infallibility of the pope, flows naturally from the infallibility of the church.
The question is, is the church(catholic) infallible to begin with?
That you'll answer yourself by the time I'm done.
I am not confusing infallibility with impeccability please. Only that, for infallibility to exist where their is no impeccability, is not possible.
Accordingly, when he(the Pope) defines an article of faith/moral he is infallible, except otherwise. I think we have a problem. Does the Pope operate as a dual entity?
Is it not the same person that makes the moral and faith truths, make the non-impeccable entity?
Can character be dualistic?
I am not trying to act like luther who described the papacy as a 'human invention',but infallibility of the Pope I will look with a similar lense.
Their was a time we had two popes. How do you weigh them in the infallible scale?
This notion is wrong. Let's drop it.
Examples:
i) Pope Gregory xiv was misled by corrupt officials.
ii) Pope innocent xiii made his brother cardinal and practised nepotism
iii) Pius vii crowned napoleon emperor in paris, but later excommunicated him after the emperor occupied rome. Lol.
What infallibility? It is a contradiction of infallibility to breed fallibility.
When we believe a thing for the sake of faith-preservation, we're preparing the faith for self-termination.

musKeeto: Enjoying this Sir.. Following...

Where is my insecticide?

SAINTHOOD
To be a saint, is to be holy and free from sin.
Catholics believe all saints are already in heaven, and they intercede for us in prayer. Really? How do we know this?
I know how. That same set of unquestionable 'infallible' rules standing as the pillar of catholism.
Who gave the church the power to make saints? That is the right question. To the hypermyopic, it is an observation of hebrews 13:7. 'Remember your former leaders, who spoke God's message to you- think back on how they lived and died and imitate their faith. It never tasked or instructed us to make 'saints', but to imitate. Unless I need a new lecture on the meaning of imitation.
So, my fellow catholics, where do we get our interpretation from? I think this is part of a bigger plan mapped out by the inviscible demonic agents that have infiltrated the church. As kids, we were told to induct one to sainthood, God will be working some miracles through the dead person. Brainwashing at its peak.
I have two questions, the first is sentimental, the second is total.
1) If sainthood is not a scam, why has the induction of fr iwene tansi taking much time than necessary? The las time, Pete Edochie, was in my church in Niger, with a film, each sold at the rate of N1000. His mission: to fast-track the induction of late Fr iwene tansi into sainthood. Let me laugh first......
If trully their are signs, why the strenous exercise? Oh! I forgot. Maybe the signs are not clear enough, and money can clear the weather for proper vision. This is scam . The vatican are playing politics with the church. They decide who becomes pope, saint and otherwise.
Priest: Almost every past Pope is a saint.
Rey: Why priest. *coming to his senses* Oh! I forgot, Popes are infallible and impeccable.
Rey: Even the corrupt one too?
Priest: Yes, ofcourse, I've told you they are infallible.
What a yardstick. And nobody wants to speak out. If you do you are treated the luther way. Who even gave the right to excommunicate ? That will be a bad power steering as my friends would say.
2) Why don't we have saints from other churches?
Priest: The light illuminates in one abode, the catholic church is the center.
Rey: I understand father. I know you don't.
Grudges at work. So their is no man worthy of 'sainthood' in the other factions?
Why do we pray to saints for intercession? Was christ wrong?
Sometimes, I find myself saying: 'thank you luther'.

BIBLE READING AND PRAYER
Do catholics pray? Yes, but a few.
Priest: How does the catholic church encourage their parishoners/members to read the bible?
Rey: By selling of sunday missals and bulletin.
Priest: Yes, you answered correctly.
Without the word in you, you can never speak the word. Even when you, everything remains buffered. Sincerely speaking, the catholic church does not encourage the reading of the bible. If not for the 'Catholic Charismatic Renewal Movement', the catholic church would have been gone by now. Did I just break your rib? I'm sorry.
Once by chance, we encounter a 'holyghost father' who insists in praise and worship, our tendons begin to apoptosize. Some will not open their mouths to worship(who knows if their hearts is doing the thing), majority will be seated except for the 'father's' intervention. And the cultists, sorry I mean the knights will be grumbling with their pot-bellies. I mean no disrespect. God save this house. Was this the founding fathers plan? Whoever brought the idea of bulletins and sunday missals has an ulterior motive.
Beyond the hail mary prayer, how many of us can pray for an hour? So many question I'd like to ask.
What is the prayer life of the average catholic child?
I remember back then in boarding house, a catholic boy was called upon to pray for the general. Guess what? You guessed right already. He switched into the normal hail mary mantra. I was engulfed in shame.
How do we justify the prayer and societies we create for every saint? Prayer to st micheal, legion of mary, prayer to saint joseph, devine mercy prayer, etc etc. No room for creativity. Lol.
Sometimes I wonder if we will ever change, maybe I'm wallowing in delusion.
But as the bible says....only the violent taketh it by force. The catholic church must be restored to the former glory.

Latin In Place Of Our Language During Mass
What is the sense in a priest saying the mass to an english people in latin? Senseless. Yes, I said it.
1 Corinthians 14:11: 'But if I do not know the language being spoken, those who use it will be foreigners to me and I will be a foreigner to them'.
Verse 19: ' But in church worship, I would rather speak five words that can be understood, in order to teach others, than speak thousands of words in strange tongues'.
The bible condemns it. Now, where did it originate from? Maybe the canon law support it.
I see no sense in it.
^^^
My Confusion
Despite this things I see as error, God is still in the Catholic church. Am I wrong, or is it the case of a lower spirit not understanding what happens in the higher realm? Some even claim the hail mary prayer works magic. How is that possible? So many questions in my mind. So many. Even those who pray by intercession of the saints and angels have their own story.
God in heaven, help me know more.

Funny how this thread hasn't exceeded the first page. If this was about iyanya,I'm sure all the nitwits woulda crawled out and flooded the thread with rubbish.

@OP. I was once a catholic,actually went to a seminary. So I perfectly understand all you have written. Keep 'em coming.

Reyginus: Where is my insecticide?

I just bought a BayGon insecticide......

Specially for muskeeto...:-)

ijawkid:

I just bought a BayGon insecticide......

Specially for muskeeto...:-)

Make we no derail this lovely thread biko, dis one everybody don dey baygon on top my head, lol... Lb not me should be the xtians target I be free roaming man... Hhehee

@topic: my dad's catholic, infact I used to call myself a pente-catholic cos my mom's pentecostal..
I may not be a Christian, but I'm really interested in understanding the root of the 'differences in doctrines' that has led to the rise of so many denominations in Christianity. The fact that you're Catholic and asking these honest questions of the Catholic system makes this thread stand out from the usual frosbel-esque anti-catholic threads that abound in this section...

So baygon or raid, I don drag seat siddon for this thread... Lol..

ijawkid:

I just bought a BayGon insecticide......

Specially for muskeeto...:-)

lol

*Owen*:
Funny how this thread hasn't exceeded the first page. If this was about iyanya,I'm sure all the nitwits woulda crawled out and flooded the thread with rubbish.

@OP. I was once a catholic,actually went to a seminary. So I perfectly understand all you have written. Keep 'em coming.

What the church need is a sanitation.

musKeeto:
Make we no derail this lovely thread biko, dis one everybody don dey baygon on top my head, lol... Lb not me should be the xtians target I be free roaming man... Hhehee

@topic: my dad's catholic, infact I used to call myself a pente-catholic cos my mom's pentecostal..
I may not be a Christian, but I'm really interested in understanding the root of the 'differences in doctrines' that has led to the rise of so many denominations in Christianity. The fact that you're Catholic and asking these honest questions of the Catholic system makes this thread stand out from the usual frosbel-esque anti-catholic threads that abound in this section...

So baygon or raid, I don drag seat siddon for this thread... Lol..

Noted.

Where are my catholic brothers?

Muskeeto, can you help do something?

@Reyginus, you've raised important questions but if u will get an answer,i doubt if it will be satisfactory. As an athiest i know that only death can answer all our questions.

Femmymata2: @Reyginus, you've raised important questions but if u will get an answer,i doubt if it will be satisfactory. As an athiest i know that only death can answer all our questions.

Let's wait and see if a strong man is still in gilead.

@regimus, i come from a very strong catholic home, and yes, you have spoken our minds. I mentioned on a thread earlier that going by my revelations from God, that the catholic church does still have God present - home people thought i was saying b.s.

Anyway, let us see how this thread goes, because you have truly spoken well.

I'm agnostic but an ex - practising Catholic. While I may agree with your points about papal infallibility (little different from pentecostal G.O's who are accorded almost Christ-like reverence by their followers) and church traditions like canonization of saints, I disagree with the other long-winded arguments. This is simply for the fact the Catholic church may see the bible as a foundational guide for the faith but not the sole building block of it and I find this view rational. It's somewhat naive to consider a human contraption like the bible the sole christian guide. It's all about faith because if you believe some of the ramblings from Paul or Peter (who were recorded to even be at loggerheads with each other), there's no logical reason you couldn't do the same for a Papal declaration seeing as they often claim them to be divinely inspired too. This is how church traditions like those concerning Mary's intercessory role came about. Faith, and not the Bible, is the foundation of christian belief.

Addressing a few of the specifics, it's interesting to say Catholics don't worship, pray or read their Bible because those I grew up around do. You obviously believe worship must be spontaneous, probably with a lot of feet stomping and clapping and dancing but that's personal. Singing hymns or many of the canticles in church count as worship to me. You made some spurious, out of context quotes from the bible like that concerning using Latin in church. Ignoring the fact that scenario wasn't what the apostle was referring to (but the pervading act of needless speaking in tongues in a gathering), it's like saying I as an Igbo man shouldn't sing Yoruba praise songs because I don't speak Yoruba. The Latin prayers said have English equivalents and the congregation knows what the prayer is saying even if they can't speak Latin. As for charges of idolatry, it's a self-effacing argument to accuse someone of idolatry who denies it. The very act of worship entails submission and subservience and denial negates this submission. By the very definition of worship, someone denying it simply isn't doing it just the same way someone denying worshipping God REALLY isn't worshipping God and to keep accusing him of doing it is off the mark.

Anyway, I've typed more than I wanted and should stop but suffice it to say it's amusing watching you christians in your sling matches disparage other groups. I consider all of you different faces of the same mass scam that is religion and despite pretentions to the contrary, none are better than the other.

As for the OP, this thread serves no purpose because you can't change anything in the church so you might as well join any of the thousands of denominations that may conform to your beliefs. Unless you've already done so and just felt like attacking the church. Peace.

Reyginus: where are my catholic brothers?

Keep them coming Mr, I think you have a total of 44 of them.
I strongly doubt if you are a Catholic Christian as you claimed. For if you are, you should know that all you have written so far are groundless. All these claims have been written and recycled over and over. I must responded to them on nairaland more than once. Since you claim to be Catholic, why don't you read "Catholicism and fundamentalism" by Karl Keaten or "Why Catholics are right" by Michael Coren. They have answer to all your questions and will even explain to you the origin of the book you are getting all the stuff you are writing here from. You May also want read "Rome Sweet Rome" by Scot Hahn, "Crossing the Tiber" by Steve Ray and "upon this rock" also by Steve Ray. These two men are just two of many and highly intelligent Protestant/anti catholic priests who asked all these question and in search of truth couldn't ignore and mock Catholic Church's claim and one by one eventually come back home.
I don't have time to start debating your lists one by one, the time it took you to find these spurious allegations on the net or read the anti catholic books you copied them from, you could easily have found the answers on hundreds of Catholic blogs and websites if you are genuinely seeking answers.

Reyginus: Where are my catholic brothers?

http://catholicdefense..co.uk/?m=1

Www.calletocommunion.com

If you need more sites, will gladly supply.

Blessings.

I initially wanted to ignore this thread but for the fact that I wanted to make some things clear

@op

It is obvious you are not a catholic or even if you were you were completely ignorant of the church's doctrines.

You cannot even correctly define papal infallibility as what you wrote here is completely thrash.kindly gooogle or better still go the wikipedia to get the correct definition of papal infallibility.

You are completely ignorant of the meaning and processes involved in proclaimation of saints.most of what you wrote here are completely baseless and obviously the work of a fundamentalist christian

See them... See them... They don come back again. See person wey no Know catholic doctrine dey claim say him be catholic.

Am very busy now. When am free, I'd reply every one of you.

Reyginus: Am very busy now. When am free, I'd reply every one of you.

No need to do that, as a Catholic, its quite shocking and disturbing that you have no clue what the Church you claim to belong to believe and teaches. I suggest that you should visit the websites posted earlier for your answers.

pastormustwacc: @regimus, i come from a very strong catholic home, and yes, you have spoken our minds. I mentioned on a thread earlier that going by my revelations from God, that the catholic church does still have God present - home people thought i was saying b.s.

Anyway, let us see how this thread goes, because you have truly spoken well.

Thank you for the observation.

Obi1kenobi: I'm agnostic but an ex - practising Catholic. While I may agree with your points about papal infallibility (little different from pentecostal G.O's who are accorded almost Christ-like reverence by their followers) and church traditions like canonization of saints, I disagree with the other long-winded arguments. This is simply for the fact the Catholic church may see the bible as a foundational guide for the faith but not the sole building block of it and I find this view rational. It's somewhat naive to consider a human contraption like the bible the sole christian guide. It's all about faith because if you believe some of the ramblings from Paul or Peter (who were recorded to even be at loggerheads with each other), there's no logical reason you couldn't do the same for a Papal declaration seeing as they often claim them to be divinely inspired too. This is how church traditions like those concerning Mary's intercessory role came about. Faith, and not the Bible, is the foundation of christian belief.

Addressing a few of the specifics, it's interesting to say Catholics don't worship, pray or read their Bible because those I grew up around do. You obviously believe worship must be spontaneous, probably with a lot of feet stomping and clapping and dancing but that's personal. Singing hymns or many of the canticles in church count as worship to me. You made some spurious, out of context quotes from the bible like that concerning using Latin in church. Ignoring the fact that scenario wasn't what the apostle was referring to (but the pervading act of needless speaking in tongues in a gathering), it's like saying I as an Igbo man shouldn't sing Yoruba praise songs because I don't speak Yoruba. The Latin prayers said have English equivalents and the congregation knows what the prayer is saying even if they can't speak Latin. As for charges of idolatry, it's a self-effacing argument to accuse someone of idolatry who denies it. The very act of worship entails submission and subservience and denial negates this submission. By the very definition of worship, someone denying it simply isn't doing it just the same way someone denying worshipping God REALLY isn't worshipping God and to keep accusing him of doing it is off the mark.

Anyway, I've typed more than I wanted and should stop but suffice it to say it's amusing watching you christians in your sling matches disparage other groups. I consider all of you different faces of the same mass scam that is religion and despite pretentions to the contrary, none are better than the other.

As for the OP, this thread serves no purpose because you can't change anything in the church so you might as well join any of the thousands of denominations that may conform to your beliefs. Unless you've already done so and just felt like attacking the church. Peace.

You are welcome.
Here we go.
The rational block from which every other thesis take root in christainity is the bible. Paul's case is different in that, he was writing the basic truth from which every other truth in the practise of christainity must spring from.
Did I say catholics dont read the bible?
In the language area, you seem not to get it. Let's say a service is to be held in a yoruba populated area. The preacher steps in, and begins to flow in igbo language, even though he is fluent in yoruba. Does that make sense to you?
On statues.
You know something, that you say you don't believe in a thing or a thing is not true, does not make it so.
The question is, why would you bow to an image?
And what made you think I can't change anything?

This post appeared twice.

Anyigala:
Keep them coming Mr, I think you have a total of 44 of them.
I strongly doubt if you are a Catholic Christian as you claimed. For if you are, you should know that all you have written so far are groundless. All these claims have been written and recycled over and over. I must responded to them on nairaland more than once. Since you claim to be Catholic, why don't you read "Catholicism and fundamentalism" by Karl Keaten or "Why Catholics are right" by Michael Coren. They have answer to all your questions and will even explain to you the origin of the book you are getting all the stuff you are writing here from. You May also want read "Rome Sweet Rome" by Scot Hahn, "Crossing the Tiber" by Steve Ray and "upon this rock" also by Steve Ray. These two men are just two of many and highly intelligent Protestant/anti catholic priests who asked all these question and in search of truth couldn't ignore and mock Catholic Church's claim and one by one eventually come back home.
I don't have time to start debating your lists one by one, the time it took you to find these spurious allegations on the net or read the anti catholic books you copied them from, you could easily have found the answers on hundreds of Catholic blogs and websites if you are genuinely seeking answers.

Their is no 44 squad. And why should be pretending to be a catholic? Dude, I don't fake anything.
I know where you are coming from.
You didnt solve any problem.
So you think I need to read an article in a catholic site to believe all there about catholism?
You must be joking. I am not that gullible.

Anyigala:

http://catholicdefense..co.uk/?m=1

Www.calletocommunion.com

If you need more sites, will gladly supply.

Blessings.

I want to you to be the site/sight I need. Just like micheal gave God a reason to believe in man again in the movie Legion, I want you to the same. I've read more than a thousand articles on the catholic faith and our philosophy. What's making you think this one is my eureka?