Mr_Anony:

Sorry, I don't quite see exactly how gravity relates to morality. . . .or are you somehow suggesting that we were designed based on evolution? What exactly is your point here?

You are freaking dishonest here. Are you freaking serious? What is wrong with you?

You realised that you lost the argument and you are playing straw men. Why didnt you follow the focus of your argument about purpose?


I didnt relate gravity to morality. I used the theory of gravity to show that purpose is meaningless when it comes to relating forces of nature to human beings. It is just as evolution doesnt need a purpose.

Here is my comment again;

Logicboy03:


Does gravity have a purpose? then why does it serve as a basis for human design and architecture?

Evolution does not have a purpose. You project god unto morality and that is why you make the failed assumption that purpose drives morality because your god supposedly has a purpose for humans.


We survive. We adapt to our environment. The basic instincts that we have are necessary to meet our goals for survival and adaptation. These instincts serve as a basic morality for us humans which we then hone with reasoning and social interactions.




oops! did I debunk you

You shift the argument anywhere you want- you brought in "value", "human life is sacred" and "purpose". None of which have anything to do with the main topic at hand; evolutionary basis of morality.


But when someone uses an analogy, you remix it an complain and ask how it it related. Jeez

Ihedinobi: Gee! I sure love this thread. It's some serious fun up in here.

Logicboy03:

You are freaking dishonest here. Are you freaking serious? What is wrong with you?

You realised that you lost the argument and you are playing straw men. Why didnt you follow the focus of your argument about purpose?


I didnt relate gravity to morality. I used the theory of gravity to show that purpose is meaningless when it comes to relating forces of nature to human beings. It is just as evolution doesnt need a purpose.

Here is my comment again;




You shift the argument anywhere you want- you brought in "value", "human life is sacred" and "purpose". None of which have anything to do with the main topic at hand; evolutionary basis of morality.


But when someone uses an analogy, you remix it an complain and ask how it it related. Jeez

I really don't get your analogy at all. For anything to be moral or immoral, it must have a will. For anything to treat something else nice or nasty, it must place a value upon it. I wonder how you can possibly talk about a basis for morality while totally ignoring purpose and value.

I wonder how gravity having or not having a will affects the design of buildings.

You have some clarifying to do.

Mr_Anony:
I really don't get your analogy at all. For anything to be moral or immoral, it must have a will. For anything to treat something else nice or nasty, it must place a value upon it. I wonder how you can possibly talk about a basis for morality while totally ignoring purpose and value.

I wonder how gravity having or not having a will affects the design of buildings.

You have some clarifying to do.

And as usual, I come in for more clarity.. lol.. sorry tight weekend, will go through the thread fully later.

There was gravity before buildings or aeroplanes in fact. Man gets more knowledgeable, and with understanding is able to work with gravity to design something purposeful.. e.g a plane, or a house.. Gravity will pull a plane down if it has a fault with its engines, would you call gravity evil then?

Mr_Anony:
I really don't get your analogy at all. For anything to be moral or immoral, it must have a will. For anything to treat something else nice or nasty, it must place a value upon it. I wonder how you can possibly talk about a basis for morality while totally ignoring purpose and value.

I wonder how gravity having or not having a will affects the design of buildings.

You have some clarifying to do.

You have answered your question. Gravity doesnt have a purpose or will but it is the basis for our architecture and builidngs


Same with evolution, it doesnt have a will or a purpose but it is the basis of human morality.

Logicboy03:
You have answered your question. Gravity doesnt have a purpose or will but it is the basis for our architecture and builidngs

Same with evolution, it doesnt have a will or a purpose but it is the basis of human morality.

Abdulsleek

musKeeto:
Abdulsleek

Why Abdulsleek?

Logicboy03:



Why Abdulsleek?

my new name for u... saw ur thread.. lol..

Logicboy03:

You have answered your question. Gravity doesnt have a purpose or will but it is the basis for our architecture and builidngs


Same with evolution, it doesnt have a will or a purpose but it is the basis of human morality.

Wonderfunculous wonderanta!!!

If at some point in the future, you are ever really interested in addressing my concerns with a bit of sense, please do well to read my post properly.

musKeeto:
my new name for u... saw ur thread.. lol..

That is my undercover name.

Mr_Anony:
lol, Why so Serious?

Well u don't expect me to be all smiles after mocking me now do u?
But I'm not angry anyway, just plain.

U know, as a human, if u expose ur vunerable side, and u've got lots of enemies, then u're stupid. But if u expose those weak sides to ur friends, then u're more of brave. Although to be honest, I don't think they are weak, people just think them weaknesses becos they are the bitter but healty truth present in everybody.

U are probably going to mock me some more after this but, whats the harm in being a little sincere.

I do not consider u my enemy or opponent, other atheists might but I don't.
I really don't care about the noun, the god or lack of, I care about the verb, what its doing to u, how its affecting ur life and that of others.

A western guy might be having problems, might have gone to different shrinks without any fruits. But then he might decide to go to a buddist monastery and at the end of the day come out feeling really great and refreshed. I won't condenm him, why spoil his life? Instead I'd say ''good for u!''.

Christianity isn't doing too much good in nigeria, not many people could even call themselves true followers of jesus. But if u can, then I wouldn't have much trouble with u. If it has changed ur life for the better, if it has actually tranformed ur character to something loving and peaceful then it wouldn't bother me much.

I mean, I know its all ''in ur mind'', but why crush a good heart?

So many r.a.p.i.s.ts, gang members, muderers, drug addicts, and so on have been delivered through buddism, christianity e.t.c

If thats were they'll find peace of mind, then let them have it. Who am I to be their devil?

Science still has alot to answer that if the medicine of the mind is all we have, let them use.

I am pretty much tired of all the useless circles of bloody fights. Everybody is trying to impose their beliefs on others, everybody's trying to elevate their ego.
I just want nigeria and the world at large to be a better place.

If believing in a god will make u a better person then goodluck with that, but don't be hypocritical about it and twist it to favour ur selfish desires. But if u do find it empty with way too many loopholes, then u could as well find ur way out.
Just do whats good for the community and be true to urself.
Just do what would make nigeria and the world a better place.

Mr_Anony:
Wonderfunculous wonderanta!!!

If at some point in the future, you are ever really interested in addressing my concerns with a bit of sense, please do well to read my post properly.

After being destroyed in the argument, you are now claiming that I am not addressing your concerns properly?



What part of my comment didnt destroy your claims on "will" and "purpose"

Mr_Anony:
I really don't get your analogy at all. For anything to be moral or immoral, it must have a [size=14pt]will[/size]. For anything to treat something else nice or nasty, it must place a value upon it. I wonder how you can possibly talk about a basis for morality while totally ignoring purpose and value.

I wonder how gravity having or not having a will affects the design of buildings.

You have some clarifying to do.

Logicboy03:






You have answered your question. Gravity doesnt have a purpose or will but it is the basis for our architecture and builidngs


Same with evolution, it doesnt have a will or a purpose but it is the basis of human morality.

Inurmind, are u atheist or agnostic?

Logicboy03:





After being destroyed in the argument, you are now claiming that I am not addressing your concerns properly?



What part of my comment didnt destroy your claims on "will" and "purpose"

SMH..............he still doesn't get it.

musKeeto: Inurmind, are u atheist or agnostic?

lol, looking for teammates?

Mr_Anony:
SMH..............he still doesn't get it.

Stop using style....you were debunked.



Why not explain what I didnt get? All throughout this thread, whenever I claimed that you were being dishonest, I always pointed out what I felt was dishonest or wrong.


Show me some courtesy.

Mr_Anony:
lol, looking for teammates?

u must have me confused with Ihedinobi...

musKeeto:
u must have me confused with Ihedinobi...

#muskeeto serves up a smashing counter



BOOM!

musKeeto:
u must have me confused with Ihedinobi...

lol.....nice one there.....I must admit.

Logicboy03:

Stop using style....you were debunked.



Why not explain what I didnt get? All throughout this thread, whenever I claimed that you were being dishonest, I always pointed out what I felt was dishonest or wrong.


Show me some courtesy.

I was asking you to make a clarification but somehow you managed to read that I made a definite statement. Please go and read it again.

perhaps I should put it in form of a question: How does gravity having or not having a will affect the design of buildings?

Mr_Anony:
I was asking you to make a clarification but somehow you managed
to read that I made a definite statement. Please go and read it again.

perhaps I should put it in form of a question: How does gravity having or not having a will affect the design of buildings?

1) Gravity doesnt have a will. Like you christians say "it is only a theory"

2) You must build your house according to gravity. Try buiding a house with a bad foundation or support and it will come crashing down. Gravity at work

3) Just like gravity, evolution does not have a will or purpose. But it source of morality due to the nature of our survival

Logicboy03:



1) Gravity doesnt have a will. Like you christians say "it is only a theory"

2) You must build your house according to gravity. Try buiding a house with a bad foundation or support and it will come crashing down. Gravity at work

3) Just like gravity, evolution does not have a will or purpose. But it source of morality due to the nature of our survival

Now that's better, I think I am beginning to get what you are saying now. (you see clarifying is usually much easier than throwing empty insults about) However, you are still making a fundamental error. Perhaps this will help.

1. I can argue that gravity has a will but to keep things simple, we'll agree that gravity has no will.

2. If gravity has no will, then it doesn't make sense to talk about "building according to gravity" or "gravity at work". I'll overlook these phrases as mere manners of speech but then we come to something important. Gravity did not build the house neither did gravity make the foundation. Gravity is just an independent observer. If you design it right, it will stand, if you don't design it right, it will fall. Gravitational pull will act on it all the same, it is just there. It will be totally wrong to say that gravity designed the building or is the source of the building.

3. The same goes for evolution, if you adapt well, you survive. if you don't adapt well, you die off. Evolution remains there carrying on irrespective of whether you survive or not. It will therefore be very wrong to say that evolution is the source of morality. That will be like saying that gravity is the source of building design.

You can say that design was adapted so as to overcome gravitational pull or that behaviour evolved to survive natural selection but never that evolution /gravity caused anything themselves.

I personally believe that I have helped clarify your point for you. Do you follow up to this point?

Mr_Anony:


Now that's better, I think I am beginning to get what you are saying now. (you see clarifying is usually much easier than throwing empty insults about) However, you are still making a fundamental error. Perhaps this will help.

Nonsense, I didnt say anything now that I didnt say before. I just didnt give you chance to say that you didnt understand my comment

Mr_Anony:
1. I can argue that gravity has a will but to keep things simple, we'll agree that gravity has no will.

Gravity has a will? Sorry but you are going off the rails. How can gravity have a will? I would like to know.

Mr_Anony:
2. If gravity has no will, then it doesn't make sense to talk about "building according to gravity" or "gravity at work". I'll overlook these phrases as mere manners of speech but then we come to something important. Gravity did not build the house neither did gravity make the foundation. Gravity is just an independent observer. If you design it right, it will stand, if you don't design it right, it will fall. Gravitational pull will act on it all the same, it is just there. It will be totally wrong to say that gravity designed the building or is the source of the building.

I said "building according to gravity"- does that mean that I said that gravity built the building? No.

Gravity didnt build the building neither did evolution create living things. The first life-form exists before evolution. Eveolution describes the change that the life-froms go through.

Mr_Anony:
3. The same goes for evolution, if you adapt well, you survive. if you don't adapt well, you die off. Evolution remains there carrying on irrespective of whether you survive or not. It will therefore be very wrong to say that evolution is the source of morality. That will be like saying that gravity is the source of building design.

Gravity is the basis of the building design. All design must conform to gravity. What ever you design must fall in line with gravity. Evolution follows the same principle in a more robust way since living oragnisms are more dynamic then non living things.

Natural selection and adaptation are parts of evolution, for one to survive and adapt, one must use his evolutionary instincts (basic morality

Mr_Anony:
You can say that design was adapted so as to overcome gravitational pull or [b]that behaviour evolved to survive natural selection [/b]but never that evolution /gravity caused anything themselves.

Read your comment (esp. the bold) and see that you are negating yourself. Isnt natural selection part of evolution as a key mechanism?


lol.....see what remixing and deceit has done to you

Mr_Anony:
I personally believe that I have helped clarify your point for you. Do you follow up to this point?

nonsense

Logicboy03:


Nonsense, I didnt say anything now that I didnt say before. I just didnt give you chance to say that you didnt understand my comment
Wow



Gravity has a will? Sorry but you are going off the rails. How can gravity have a will? I would like to know.
I let that slide, why are you pushing it? do you like tangents that much?





I said "building according to gravity"- does that mean that I said that gravity built the building? No.

Gravity didnt build the building neither did evolution create living things. The first life-form exists before evolution. Eveolution describes the change that the life-froms go through.
good, note that evolution is merely the change itself and not the source of the life-form or any part of it



Gravity is the basis of the building design. All design must conform to gravity. What ever you design must fall in line with gravity. Evolution follows the same principle in a more robust way since living oragnisms are more dynamic then non living things.
The moment you talk about "conforming to gravity", you have immediately given it a will/purpose. Same goes for evolution. You can either describe it as merely a change or you can describe it as something that has rules to be conformed to. You can have it either one way or the other but never both ways.


Natural selection and adaptation are parts of evolution, for one to survive and adapt, one must use his evolutionary instincts (basic morality
Read your comment (esp. the bold) and see that you are negating yourself. Isnt natural selection part of evolution as a key mechanism?
lol.....see what remixing and deceit has done to you
evolution is not an entity with constituent parts. natural selection is merely a descriptive phenomenon.






nonsense poor you

Oh my God! you really are beyond help. read my comments in red.

Mr_Anony:
Oh my God! you really are beyond help. read my comments in red.

Anony has finally boxed himself into a corner with all his deceit and dishonesty


a) Gravity has a will (LMAO)

b) Evolution must have a purpose or will before morality can be considered in evolution (LWKMD)

c) Natural selection isnt part of evolution (Roflmao)



Ladies and gentlemen, I hope you have been entertained.

Logicboy03:


Anony has finally boxed himself into a corner with all his deceit and dishonesty


a) Gravity has a will (LMAO) You lie

b) Evolution must have a purpose or will before morality can be considered in evolution (LWKMD)True. Purposelessness does not birth purpose

c) Natural selection isnt part of evolution (Roflmao)twisted statement. Go and read again. And be sure to name all the 'parts' of evolution since you claim it has parts



Ladies and gentlemen, I hope you have been entertained.

As usual your comprehension fails you...carry on. It is a sad thing to waste an argument on you.

Mr_Anony:
As usual your comprehension fails you...carry on. It is a sad thing to waste an argument on you.

Hahahaha. Your lies and deceit caught up with you. Gravity has a will? LMAO

Logicboy03:



Hahahaha. Your lies and deceit caught up with you. Gravity has a will? LMAO

Please quote where I made this claim. Why are you being dishonest?

Mr_Anony:
Please quote where I made this claim. Why are you being dishonest?

Lies.....lies......lies

Mr_Anony:



1. I can argue that gravity has a will but to keep things simple, we'll agree that gravity has no will.

Logicboy03:



Lies.....lies......lies

And how exactly does "I can argue that gravity has a will but to keep things simple, we'll agree that gravity has no will." suddenly become "Gravity has a will"?

Mr_Anony:
And how exactly does "I can argue that gravity has a will but to keep things simple, we'll agree that gravity has no will." suddenly become "Gravity has a will"?

I can argue that the sky is orange.

^^^The above statement would imply that I believe that the sky is orange and I can prove it with argument.


Same as your statement;

"I can argue that gravity has a will......."





You are just embarrassing yourself at this point.

musKeeto: Inurmind, are u atheist or agnostic?

I am an atheist. But I have realised some things are just futile. I am going to live my life not particularly angry at anyone. I just want to help people, make people happy, and living in a bloody futile war isn't helping.

I know I sound unlike the average atheist, infact unlike the average human being.
But I just want to be humble and sincere. A big ego will never make ur life a fulfilled one at the end of the day, sincerely helping people would.