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NL Political Dialogue Nov 2012: STATE POLICE - ARE WE READY FOR IT? - Politics (4) - Nairaland

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Re: NL Political Dialogue Nov 2012: STATE POLICE - ARE WE READY FOR IT? by Nobody: 8:33pm On Nov 24, 2012
Deep Sight:

Okay, or if he is trained for their regulations!

1. How long will such training take?

2. How much will such training cost?

3. How effective will such training be?
Re: NL Political Dialogue Nov 2012: STATE POLICE - ARE WE READY FOR IT? by bola4dprec(m): 8:34pm On Nov 24, 2012
Deep Sight: Hello Everyone,

I would like to commence this discussion with reference to the broad history of mankind – and then a reference to the specific history of Nigeria. The reader might, I very well know, wonder what the broad history of mankind has to do with the topic at hand, but it is actually, the epicenter of the matter.

I am often at a loss as to how desperately lost many Nigerians are – politically – and specifically in terms of key political and constitutional questions – that I am forced to wonder exactly how Nigeria has somehow managed to remain in existence for the period of time that it has. I say this because, all that leads to war is injustice; all that leads to disintegration is imbalance: and all that leads to decay is inertia. My friends, injustice, imbalance and inertia are all very present and alive in Nigeria today. At all events, I must return swiftly to the relevance of the broad history of mankind to the discussion at hand.

Broad History of Mankind - Relevance.

It is today generally accepted scientific thought that mankind originated in Africa, and this is confirmed by the broad tracing of the genetic information amongst the races of mankind. In layman’s terms, it suffices to say that given that the larger portion of mankind’s history was spent in Africa in terms of the early stages of mankind’s development, the genetic information discloses that on account of that origin, history, and greater period of breeding, the peoples on the African Continent have by far the greatest genetic diversity on the face of the Planet.

Before I proceed, I verify this statement from research as follows -
“The research showed that there is more human genetic diversity in Africa than anywhere else on Earth. The genetic structure of Africans was traced to 14 ancestral population clusters and the ancestral origin of humans was determined to probably be located in southern Africa, near the border of Namibia and South Africa.
Human genetic diversity decreases in native populations with migratory distance from Africa and this is thought to be the result of bottlenecks during human migration, which are events that temporarily reduce population size.”


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_genetic_variation

As such, (and although I do not need the foregoing to prove the point – bus specifically use it to avoid dispute) it is evident that Africans are the most genetically differentiated peoples on the planet Earth. This differentiation has extended into culture, language, religion and virtually every aspect of human existence under the sun.
Language, for example. Virtually the whole of Western Europe is tied at the neck in terms of origin of language.

In fact, I make so bold as to say that the principal European languages – French, English, Spanish, and Italian – can all be referred to as different dialects of the same language – LATIN. The significance of this may at first be lost on the inattentive reader. The significance of this is that there is greater linguistic and cultural diversity within the Nigerian Space alone, than there is in the whole of Europe.
And yet, Europe is divided into many nations, and has a history of great wars and divisions.

Returning to the broad history of mankind, what this means is that the European Colonialist in conquering African colonies, merged together swathes of land which were the dwelling places of peoples far more genetically, linguistically and culturally divided than the whole of Europe. Nigeria alone, represents one such case, which discloses a greater ethnic, linguistic, cultural and genetic diversity, than do all the nations of Europe put together.

That is why in terms of countries and languages there is France and French. England and English. Italy and Italian. Spain and Spanish. Portugal and Portuguese. And all of these languages like I earlier said, are derived from Latin, and share most words in common, and seen from the broad perspective of human linguistics, are in fact really merely different dialects of the same old language – Latin.

There is no Nigeria and "Nigerian" – as a language.

It thus emerges the tribes of Nigeria – in their deep seated genetic, cultural and linguistic differences, are wholly nations unto themselves, with distinguishing marks far more deeply seated that that of the entirety of Western Europe.

And it is with this in mind that we must now come to the specific History Nigeria in furthering this discussion.

Specific History of Nigeria – Re: Police.

In recognition of the key distictions within the Nigeria Space, the departing British Colonialists bequeathed a Federal System in which the majority of internal powers rested with the initial three federating units of the North, West and Eastern Regions. In the structure that obtained at Independence, every region had its Independent Police Force and the heads of these Police Forces were responsible to the Premier of the respective region.

Without much ado, I quote as follows –

The debate on whether or not to have state police has resurfaced and it seems it will not end. Before 1966, each of the four regions — North, Mid-West, West and East — had its own regional police and regional police commissioners. There was also the Nigerian Police Force and of course, Inspector-General of Police.

The regional police commissioners were all under the Premiers of the regions, while the Prime Minister directed the IG. There were areas of conflicts, no doubt, as revealed in Section 106 of the 1963 Constitution. This manifested in the political crisis that later engulfed the western region over who controls the NPF.

Sub-section 3 of Section 106 of 1963 Constitution states that, “the Prime Minister or such other Minister of the Government of the Federation as may be authorized in that behalf by the Prime Minister may give to the Inspector-General of the Nigerian Police such directives with respect to the maintaining and securing of public safety and public order as he may consider necessary and Inspector-General shall comply with those directives or cause them to be complied with.”

Sub-section 4 of the same section 106 further states that, “Subject to the provisions of sub-section (3) of this section, the Commissioner of Police of a Region shall comply with the directives of the Premier of the Region or such other Minister of the Government of the Region as may be authorised in that behalf by the Premier with respect to the maintaining and securing of public safety and public order within the Region or cause them to be complied with.”


http://www.punchng.com/opinion/bye-bye-to-confederation/

The Article in the link above, by Eric Teniola explores in detail how Nigeria gradually evolved from a truly Federal creation into a virtual unity state in terms of the issue of Internal control of the Police. Indeed, the article does conclude against State Police, but I cite it for the purpose of referring to the genuine history of Federal Policing Structure in Nigeria.

The fact is, and remains, that, just as is the case with the question of fiscal Federalism, at Independence, we had a truly Federal system in place in terms of the principle of derivation – just as we had in terms of the Policing Structure which was regional.

And my contention in this discussion is that it must remain regional to the extent that –

1. Our cultural and linguistic differences remain acute especially in a society where predominant swathes of population remain literate only in their native tongues

2. (1) above is understandable in light of the initial point made: to wit: the vast differences that we possess ethnically, linguistically, culturally and genetically.

3. Building on (1) and (2) above, it is inconceivable that we can have the same standards or approaches in terms of crime: this is evidenced by chasms of differences such as the operation of Shariah Law in the North of Nigeria and the activity of what is already virtual State Police in the form of the Hisbah as well as the OPC vigilante groups well known in the West.

4. The groups mentioned in (3) above are unhealthy and unconstitutional developments for the reason that they exist outside the framework of our constitution. Nevertheless, their existence is a pointer to the obvious fact of our key differences in the matter of crime and law, and indeed in all other facets of life.

5. It thus only makes sense that in order to have a proper and meaningful Federation in the right sense of the word, we must have federating units that are properly empowered to pursue an internal security policy unique and suitable to their culture, linguistics and ethnic as well as social identity.

In concluding this post, I would point out that this is exactly why the Federating Units in Nigeria each have their own JUDICIARY – and it is of course preposterous to speak of a Judiciary which has no enforcement unit - to wit – it’s police.

In succeeding posts, will address further issues on the desirability and implementation of State Police. I just wished at the out set to give a broad philosophic outline as to why we must be truly federal in this matter.



subject to section 214 of 1999 constitution 2011 amended which stipulates that their will be no any other police except Nigeria Police Force let us remember days of native police for northern nigeria and local police for western nigeria all this police were used for political ambition I am of the view if their is anything wrong with NPF let try to correct it no need for going back to native, local or state police Nigeria is not mature and can't be compare to either U.S or U.K
Re: NL Political Dialogue Nov 2012: STATE POLICE - ARE WE READY FOR IT? by Afam4eva(m): 8:35pm On Nov 24, 2012
HNosegbe:

Just to clarify, it is not my intention to limit the recruitment of state policemen to those who originate from such state, and that's why, in my response to Sisi_Kill I said that if a Bassey Ekpeyong is born and bred in Jigawa state and understands the culture of the terrain, he can become a policeman in Jigawa state.
What will the culture of the terrain be? What's the culture of the Lagos terrain considering the fact that this place is a mini-Nigeria.
Re: NL Political Dialogue Nov 2012: STATE POLICE - ARE WE READY FOR IT? by Nobody: 8:41pm On Nov 24, 2012
afam4eva:
What will the culture of the terrain be? What's the culture of the Lagos terrain considering the fact that this place is a mini-Nigeria.

The point I was making is that there are peculiarities with regard to each state in Nigeria and the people who inhabit those states. As a result, those who should police them should be those who understand those peculiarities.
Re: NL Political Dialogue Nov 2012: STATE POLICE - ARE WE READY FOR IT? by Nobody: 8:43pm On Nov 24, 2012
Judges can begin to send in their results.

Thanks.
Re: NL Political Dialogue Nov 2012: STATE POLICE - ARE WE READY FOR IT? by Demdem(m): 8:46pm On Nov 24, 2012
bola4dprec: subject to section 214 of 1999 constitution 2011 amended which stipulates that their will be no any other police except Nigeria Police Force let us remember days of native police for northern nigeria and local police for western nigeria all this police were used for political ambition I am of the view if their is anything wrong with NPF let try to correct it no need for going back to native, local or state police Nigeria is not mature and can't be compare to either U.S or U.K

SO what do u think its wrong with NPF that has made them to be so ineffective?
Both military and civilian govts have handled them and they are still the same. NPF leaders have been changed over the years, still the same story. Funds has been pumped in rigorously unlike before, still the same story. Their operational strategies changed over the years, still in-efficient. More hardware from both FG and states, more funds and allowances for men and officers even new police uniform etc still the same story.
I strongly believe it has to do with the structure itself. Correcting a useless structure perpetually will take us no where. cant continue to do the same thing over the years and expect a different result.

The structure of the current Police force needs to be dismantled.
Re: NL Political Dialogue Nov 2012: STATE POLICE - ARE WE READY FOR IT? by Katsumoto: 8:47pm On Nov 24, 2012
The dialogue (debate) is now over.

I want to thank the participants and judges for participating in this month's edition.

The result will be declared soon.
Re: NL Political Dialogue Nov 2012: STATE POLICE - ARE WE READY FOR IT? by Nobody: 8:47pm On Nov 24, 2012
I'm sorry but I will have to take my leave now, as the cyber cafe I have been typing from is about to close for the day. Hopefully I will havemore time in the coming days to properly expound on my view.

I do hope, however, that I have been able to contribute my bit (no matter how little) to enrich our understanding of this crucial issue. Hopefully we can continue to put heads together in subsequent debates to move our nation to where it should be.

Thank you for your understanding, and have a good night.
Re: NL Political Dialogue Nov 2012: STATE POLICE - ARE WE READY FOR IT? by Demdem(m): 8:49pm On Nov 24, 2012
HNosegbe: I'm sorry but I will have to take my leave now, as the cyber cafe I have been typing from is about to close for the day. Hopefully I will havemore time in the coming days to properly expound on my view.

I do hope, however, that I have been able to contribute my bit (no matter how little) to enrich our understanding of this crucial issue. Hopefully we can continue to put heads together in subsequent debates to move our nation to where it should be.

Thank you for your understanding, and have a good night.

Good Job. Good Night.
Re: NL Political Dialogue Nov 2012: STATE POLICE - ARE WE READY FOR IT? by Katsumoto: 8:52pm On Nov 24, 2012
HNosegbe: I'm sorry but I will have to take my leave now, as the cyber cafe I have been typing from is about to close for the day. Hopefully I will havemore time in the coming days to properly expound on my view.

I do hope, however, that I have been able to contribute my bit (no matter how little) to enrich our understanding of this crucial issue. Hopefully we can continue to put heads together in subsequent debates to move our nation to where it should be.

Thank you for your understanding, and have a good night.

Thanks and well done
Re: NL Political Dialogue Nov 2012: STATE POLICE - ARE WE READY FOR IT? by Nobody: 8:53pm On Nov 24, 2012
E-Guerilla, Afam4eva and Sisikill
Pls send in your scores.

Obinoscopy and JAybee
We received your scoring. Thanks for honouring us.
Re: NL Political Dialogue Nov 2012: STATE POLICE - ARE WE READY FOR IT? by Nobody: 8:56pm On Nov 24, 2012
Thread temporarily locked while collation of results is ongoing.

If there is need for any urgent comment, use the planning thread.

Thanks.

We shall be back with the results in the next few minutes.
Re: NL Political Dialogue Nov 2012: STATE POLICE - ARE WE READY FOR IT? by Nobody: 9:01pm On Nov 24, 2012
Judge 1
Criteria Deep. HNO. Chedd. Jaaiz
Presentation. 3. 2. 3. 2
Logic. 3. 2. 3. 3
Facts. 3. 3. 2. 2
Persuasiveness. 3. 3. 2. 3
Knowledge. 3. 3. 2. 3
TOTAL. 15. 13. 11. 13
Re: NL Political Dialogue Nov 2012: STATE POLICE - ARE WE READY FOR IT? by Nobody: 9:05pm On Nov 24, 2012
Judge 2
Criteria. Deep. HNO. Chedd. Jaaiz
Presentation. 4. 4. 2. 2
Logic. 3. 3. 3. 2
Facts. 4. 3. 3. 2
Persuasiveness. 3. 3. 4. 3
Knowledge. 4. 4. 3. 3
TOTAL. 18. 17. 15. 13
Re: NL Political Dialogue Nov 2012: STATE POLICE - ARE WE READY FOR IT? by Nobody: 9:11pm On Nov 24, 2012
Judge 3
Criteria. Deep. HNO. Chedd. Jaaiz
Presentation. 3. 3. 2. 2
Logic. 4. 4. 3. 3
Facts. 3. 2. 2. 2
Persuasiveness. 4. 3. 3. 4
Knowledge. 4. 3. 2. 3
TOTAL. 18. 15. 12. 14
Re: NL Political Dialogue Nov 2012: STATE POLICE - ARE WE READY FOR IT? by Nobody: 9:14pm On Nov 24, 2012
The 2 remining judges should send in their results pls. If we don't have it by 9:20, we would declare results based on the three we have.
Re: NL Political Dialogue Nov 2012: STATE POLICE - ARE WE READY FOR IT? by Nobody: 9:25pm On Nov 24, 2012
Judge 4

Criteria. Deep. HNO. Chedd. Jaaiz
Presentation. 3. 1.5 2. 2
Logic. 2. 3. 2. 3
Facts. 3. 2. 2. 2
Persuasiveness. 2. 4. 2. 2
Knowledge. 2. 3. 2. 2
TOTAL. 12. 13.5. 10. 11
Re: NL Political Dialogue Nov 2012: STATE POLICE - ARE WE READY FOR IT? by Nobody: 9:48pm On Nov 24, 2012
CONSOLIDATED RESULT

Criteria. Deep. HNO. Chedd. Jaaiz
Presentation. 13. 10.5 9. 8
Logic. 12. 12. 11. 11
Facts. 13. 10. 9. 8
Persuasiveness. 12. 13. 11. 12
Knowledge. 13. 13. 9. 11
TOTAL. 63. 58.5 49 50

WINNER BY CRITERIA
Presentation - Deepsight
Logic - Tie btw Deepsight and HNOsegbe
Fact - Deepsight
Persuasiveness - HNOsegbe
Knowledge - Tie btw Deepsight and HNOsegbe

WINNER BY JUDGES
Deepsight - 3
HNOsegbe - 1
Cheddarking & Jaaiztech - Nil

WINNER BY TEAM
Team 'FOR' (HNOsegbe & Deepsight)

WINNER WITHIN SIDE
FOR - Deepsight
AGAINST - Jaaiztech

Revelation of the exercise - Nil

Ladies and gentlemen, join me in congratulating DEEPSIGHT and TEAM FOR(Deepsight and HNosegbe) as they emerge individual and team winners respectively of this November edition of Nairaland Political Debate/Dialogue 2012. Good job by other contestants too.

See you guys in December, God-willing.
Re: NL Political Dialogue Nov 2012: STATE POLICE - ARE WE READY FOR IT? by Nobody: 9:52pm On Nov 24, 2012
Thread declared open for general Nairaland discussion.
Re: NL Political Dialogue Nov 2012: STATE POLICE - ARE WE READY FOR IT? by Brisingr(m): 10:03pm On Nov 24, 2012
kudos to the debaters and all who made this thread sucessful.
My question is, cases of police refusing to help occupants of a grey geographical area during robbery is on the rise with the police force of the partcipating states each pointing out that the people of this particular area aren't it responsible.won't a state police further widening this issue ?
Re: NL Political Dialogue Nov 2012: STATE POLICE - ARE WE READY FOR IT? by bola4dprec(m): 10:07pm On Nov 24, 2012
Demdem:

SO what do u think its wrong with NPF that has made them to be so ineffective?
Both military and civilian govts have handled them and they are still the same. NPF leaders have been changed over the years, still the same story. Funds has been pumped in rigorously unlike before, still the same story. Their operational strategies changed over the years, still in-efficient. More hardware from both FG and states, more funds and allowances for men and officers even new police uniform etc still the same story.
I strongly believe it has to do with the structure itself. Correcting a useless structure perpetually will take us no where. cant continue to do the same thing over the years and expect a different result.

The structure of the current Police force needs to be dismantled.
demdem indeed
Re: NL Political Dialogue Nov 2012: STATE POLICE - ARE WE READY FOR IT? by Kilode1: 10:18pm On Nov 24, 2012
Great job, guys! Well done to all the debaters.

DeepSight was just too much. It was no contest really. His question and point which i'm posting below is something to chew on.

"We cannot have a State Judiciary and State Department of Public Prosecutions without a State enforecment Unit."

That point summarizes the ridiculousity of our structure. A structure forced down the throat of 160million people by a visionless military-political class. It's a shame we are still trying to manage that vision in 2012 rather than radically overhauling it.

Think about this next time you support a politician in Nigeria:

1. Can this person lead a radical change in this country?
2. Does he have antecedents to fight entrenched interests and policies?

Your sincere answer should guide your choice.

Well done DeepSight.

4 Likes

Re: NL Political Dialogue Nov 2012: STATE POLICE - ARE WE READY FOR IT? by juman(m): 10:32pm On Nov 24, 2012
In present day nigeria, the governors would misuse state police.
Re: NL Political Dialogue Nov 2012: STATE POLICE - ARE WE READY FOR IT? by ayobase(m): 10:40pm On Nov 24, 2012
bola4dprec: subject to section 214 of 1999 constitution 2011 amended which stipulates that their will be no any other police except Nigeria Police Force let us remember days of native police for northern nigeria and local police for western nigeria all this police were used for political ambition I am of the view if their is anything wrong with NPF let try to correct it no need for going back to native, local or state police Nigeria is not mature and can't be compare to either U.S or U.K

This is JUST an educative and logical discussion.
.
Deep Sight, you make this place worthwhile to be with your analyses and responses.....thanks!
.
You went 'deep'!
Re: NL Political Dialogue Nov 2012: STATE POLICE - ARE WE READY FOR IT? by Nobody: 11:01pm On Nov 24, 2012
State Police is an absolute necessity if issues of unsolved crimes are to be minimised. The Federal police should only be concerned with inter-state crime, crimes committed in airplanes and crimes committed by federal officials. The State/regional police should be structured in a way that guarantees it's independence from the State governor or other elected state public officials; the State judiciary should have oversight on such a police force.
Re: NL Political Dialogue Nov 2012: STATE POLICE - ARE WE READY FOR IT? by bcomputer101: 11:04pm On Nov 24, 2012
This ȋ̝̊̅§ the picture of what state police will look like...

Re: NL Political Dialogue Nov 2012: STATE POLICE - ARE WE READY FOR IT? by Nobody: 11:06pm On Nov 24, 2012
bcomputer101: This ȋ̝̊̅§ the picture of what state police will look like...

Haha.. grin At least, the State Police Departments would have a more professional appearance.
Re: NL Political Dialogue Nov 2012: STATE POLICE - ARE WE READY FOR IT? by papabaks(m): 1:58am On Nov 25, 2012
This is a job well done guys...

Much respect to DeepSight, he's just too clear with his points. referring to His question and some of his points, i think most of our leaders need to give an affirmative answer to these statement:

"We cannot have a State Judiciary and State Department of Public Prosecutions without a State enforcement Unit."

Personally, I don’t think it is a good idea for now because I believe governors will use it as a tool or weapon to fight their political opponents. Speaking of stability, introducing state police will bring about more instability in the country.

It's a NO from me.
Re: NL Political Dialogue Nov 2012: STATE POLICE - ARE WE READY FOR IT? by 2mch(m): 2:06am On Nov 25, 2012
It is a yes for me. The current system is overbloated, non existent and inefficient. We don't even have a forensic system or a record of who is police and who is not. We do not have a coordinated system in which all police weapons are registered. What we have now is a corpse. People that are saying the police will be abused are giving excuses. The NASS can mandate the police to be an independent body. The life of every Nigerian which is taken with impunity by the police is more valueable than maintaining the current status quo. It is also too expensive right now for the country to run.
Re: NL Political Dialogue Nov 2012: STATE POLICE - ARE WE READY FOR IT? by kunlekunle: 4:28am On Nov 25, 2012
papabaks: This is a job well done guys...

Much respect to DeepSight, he's just too clear with his points. referring to His question and some of his points, i think most of our leaders need to give an affirmative answer to these statement:

"We cannot have a State Judiciary and State Department of Public Prosecutions without a State enforcement Unit."

Personally, I don’t think it is a good idea for now because I believe governors will use it as a tool or weapon to fight their political opponents. Speaking of stability, introducing state police will bring about more instability in the country.

It's a NO from me.

if we clamour too much on this believe, we'll achieve nothing.
The problem is the people, how morally and ethical are these people?
Do they understand the due process of law?
Do they understand the punishment meted on contravening the law?
How independent are the police, judiciary and the citizens?
How often do they interact?
Is there any complaint office for the citizen?
who checks the police?

if we can clarify these facts i believe state policing can be achieved in. nigeria
Re: NL Political Dialogue Nov 2012: STATE POLICE - ARE WE READY FOR IT? by Sagewood: 4:47am On Nov 25, 2012
Nigeria is NOT ready for the State Police system. Corruption, poverty and illiteracy are still
at unacceptable levels.
It will lead to excessive abuse of power, extra- judicial killings and be used as a political
tool to further the agenda of the State Governor. It will certainly become the
vigilante arm of the state government.
The current federal police system is NOT perfect, but it will suffice for now.
The greatest threat to an efficient and robust Nigeria police force is corruption,
and lack of accountability at all levels.
Just like every facet of the Nigerian life or government, corruption pervades the air.
Don't expect the Nigeria police force (NPF) to improve soon, except every other aspect of
government makes progress. The NPF does not exist in isolation, the whole country have to
improve and develop together.
Re: NL Political Dialogue Nov 2012: STATE POLICE - ARE WE READY FOR IT? by birdman(m): 6:59am On Nov 25, 2012
Sagewood: Nigeria is NOT ready for the State Police system. Corruption, poverty and illiteracy are still
at unacceptable levels.
It will lead to excessive abuse of power, extra- judicial killings and be used as a political
tool to further the agenda of the State Governor. It will certainly become the
vigilante arm of the state government.
The current federal police system is NOT perfect, but it will suffice for now.
The greatest threat to an efficient and robust Nigeria police force is corruption,
and lack of accountability at all levels.
Just like every facet of the Nigerian life or government, corruption pervades the air.
Don't expect the Nigeria police force (NPF) to improve soon, except every other aspect of
government makes progress. The NPF does not exist in isolation, the whole country have to
improve and develop together.

I like how the end-all-be-all answer is always "Nigeria is not ready". If this is the case, isnt it a good idea to revisit the terms of the country and see if we should restructure it fundamentally? It seems like the whole thing was built as an impediment to progressive ideas. I suspect those against state police know this is where the issue is really going.

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