A sociologist (Ebenezer Obadare, Department of Sociology, University of Kansas) has just published an article in the New Humanist (Nov – Dec 2007)describing the deplorable state of education in some of Nigeria erstwhile top universities. This is an interesting read and should serve as an object lesson in the damage posed by religious fundamentalism in university campuses. http://newhumanist.org.uk/1637


By the way, if you are going to respond to the issues raised in this post, please, please, please deal with the issues it addresses viz - education, biblical literalism, superstition, dogmatism, and scientific rationalism.




I have long posited this hypothesis and it is ever so refreshing to find a report which bears the same conclusion. In fact, any student of the history of the Dark Ages in Europe would have come to the same conclusion sooner. This should serve as a salutary lesson to everyone interested in the proper education of the citizenry.

In fact, it is nearly 10 years ago (Dec 1997- Jan 1998) that I visited the a university in Cameroon and was appalled at the growing religiosity of the university students. Every evening at about 5pm I noticed groups of 30 - 50 students congregating in various houses or assembly halls to study the bible and other devotional materials. These gatherings typically lasted in excess of 3 hours and would occasionally extend till the small hours of the morning.

Now, I may be biased, but I am given to understand that universities are institutions for the promotions of critical and rational thinking, intellectualism and the cultivation of the free inquiry. I did not attend such meetings but doubt if the subject of discussion was biblical textual criticism (Bart Ehrman), or the history of the Jews under the Roman colonial rule, or the Renaissance, or famine relief in Africa, or the Enlightenment philosophers (David Hume, Voltaire, Spinoza or Thomas Paine) or African literature (Soyinka, Achebe, Ngugi etc). It is my guess that they were gathered to develop strategies for the salvation of their souls in another world. Aside from the communal spirit and camaraderie of these events, can anything be more time-wasting and counter-educational than this endless kowtow to divine authority?

I regularly meet religionists (Christians and otherwise) who brandish a (or several) university degree(s) but have no knowledge of some of the most basic fundamental precepts of science and logic. They are typically those who take a literalist interpretation of their various religious texts, such as the bible or great book. This is an embarrassment. Here are some of the beliefs they uphold in spite of the fact that there is absolutely no scientific evidence in their favour:

1) The belief that the earth is about 6000 years old as implied in the bible. Any basic study of geology should reveal that the earth is about 4 billion years old. It would simply not be possible for organic matter to be converted into petroleum fuels naturally in 6000 years. This should be an indictment to anyone who holds onto this young-earth theory (but should know better) and rides a petroleum-based vehicle.

2) The belief that there was a worldwide flood in which Noah saved his family and some wild-life as reported in the bible about 4000 years ago. This is just palpably false and erroneous. There is absolutely no evidence for such a global flood event. In fact, this account can be categorically scientifically refuted in no less than 1000 ways.

3) The belief that the soul enters the zygote at conception. This stupid idea forms the cornerstone of the opposition to stem-cell research, the next-generation therapy for the treatment of a multitude of ailments.

4) The belief that dinosaurs and humans once walked the earth some thousands of years ago. Dinosaurs went extinct about 65 million years ago and humans (humanoids) have only walked this earth in the last 250 thousand years.

5) The belief that death, evil and suffering was the result of Adam and Eve disobeying a commandment in the garden of Eden. How about all the animals and plants that died out millions of years before humans evolved? These facts are easy to check, not least by a university student. Any good bookshop or university library should stock materials on these subjects.

Can our education system sink any lower? Anyone looking for an object lesson on the impact of dogmatic, uncritical thinking should look no further than the persecution Galileo suffered for propounding that the earth travels around the sun (heliocentrism), rather than the Sun travelling around the earth, geocentrism (as was maintained by the Catholic church). It was only in the 1990s that the Pope officially apologised for the persecution of Galileo. It is thanks to the Galilean understanding of celestial mechanics (not the biblical cosmology) that satellite technology is possible today. The potential for damage to our civilisation with biblical literalism, dogmatism and uncritical thinking is incalculable.

The forces that assail us as a human civilisation are numerous and enormous. In Africa, these problems are compounded, principally due to poverty, scientific and technological illiteracy, rampant corruption and poor governance, attachment to unproductive superstitious beliefs, unfair global economic and trade agreements and natural environmental forces beyond our control. In the face of such problems, the last thing we want is a degradation of our only means of a resolution - education. Nigeria seems to have taken a path to intellectual barbarism through the spread of the barbaric beliefs of primitive nomadic stone-aged tribesmen from Judea (Check out the barbarism of Numbers 31, Exodus 21:17, Joshua 10:26, Leviticus 27:29, etc). Every survey shows Nigeria as the most religious country in the world, but yet also the most corrupt and the most socially inequitable. Does such contradiction not say something about the parlous state of education and thinking in that country? Such beliefs are simply incompatible with enlightened 21st century thinking and inimical to the development of a universal humanistic ethic. It is about time we leave the literalism of the bible and great book to the stone-age where they rightly belong and adopt and scientico-naturalistic worldview more suited to the challenges that confront us.

If the entire African continent does not want to go down this degenerate road, we must find a way of arresting the decline in our institutions of learning and encourage the next generation of students to develop and think more critically. But am afraid, where Nigeria leads, the rest of Africa is never too far behind.


=================================================================================

Some of my other threads


The Dangers Of Religious Fundamentalism To Intellectualism
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=110955.msg1929006#msg1929006

Only For Those Who Know Their Bibles And Some History: Who Was Jesus?
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112697.msg1954632#msg1954632

Only For Those Who Know Their Bibles: Old Testament Stories
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112679.msg1954426#msg1954426

Human Sacrifice In The Bible: Lev 27: 29 & Judges 11
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112584.msg1953340#msg1953340

Please, Please, Please: Christians - Read Read Read Your Bibles
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112578.msg1953311#msg1953311

When Was Jesus Crucified?
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112557.msg1952665#msg1952665

On Conversion To A Religion (christianity Or I-slam)
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112547.msg1952353#msg1952353

Faith-healers And Tele-evangelists
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112398.msg1950528#msg1950528

Where Did Sin Originate?
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112377.msg1950291#msg1950291

For The Non-beleivers Only, 1
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112262.msg1948957#msg1948957

Would Christains Be Criminals And Offenders If They Were Not Christians?
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112259.msg1948919#msg1948919

On The Authenticity Of The New Testament, Part 1
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112240.msg1948631#msg1948631

Has Atheism Got Principle? No
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112216.msg1948180#msg1948180

It Is Biblical To Have Sex (and Lots Of It) Before Marriage
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112139.msg1946940#msg1946940

Should The Old Testament Laws Be Observed In The Modern Era?
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112114.msg1946682#msg1946682

Founding A State or Nation On Religious Principles
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112086.msg1946268#msg1946268

Great Books About Non-belief
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111928.msg1943935#msg1943935

Who Are The Self-declared Non-believer? Resources For You
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111806.msg1942137#msg1942137

Beware of a Simplistic Interpretation of Jesus's 2nd Coming Passages
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111677.msg1939992#msg1939992

Archbishop Cause Furore Over Sharia Law In The Uk
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111645.msg1939155#msg1939155

Eminent Christian Scientist (francis Collins) Explains The Evolution Of Humans
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111482.msg1936158#msg1936158

Please, Help Me Out With Your Knowledge Of The Bible
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111474.msg1936099#msg1936099

Why Biology Is So Important To Our Modern World
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111466.msg1935975#msg1935975

Genesis Vs Genetics
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111227.msg1932655#msg1932655

Jesus Genealogy
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111222.msg1932616#msg1932616

£300 (three - Hundred Pound Sterling) Essay Competition
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111143.msg1931508#msg1931508

Beware Of Religious Fundamentalism In Your University Campuses
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=110965.msg1929160#msg1929160
================================================================================

Communism (which condoned State atheism) and Nazism (you remember this, don't you) were also developed by critical thinkers. You don't need to look far to see the catastrophe they unleashed on the world.

therationa:

I have long posited this hypothesis and it is ever so refreshing to find a report which bears the same conclusion.

You made up your mind before you considered a fair opportunity to examine other cases as mentioned by the first rejoinder above, reposted below:

imhotep:

Communism (which condoned State atheism) and Nazism (you remember this, don't you) were also developed by critical thinkers. You don't need to look far to see the catastrophe they unleashed on the world.

Are the rampant ethnic and religious conflicts in Nigeria the result of critical thinking?

I think religious conflicts are due to a lack of true spirituality (for religion is not spirituality).

Ethnic conflicts arise from imbalance of power and injustice.

Imbalance of power and injustice are ultimately the result of a lack of true spirituality.

Critical thinking is a good exercise. But the results of this exercise should be subjected to right reason enlightened by faith.

therationa:

Are the rampant ethnic and religious conflicts in Nigeria the result of critical thinking?

I wonder if all conflicts in Nigeria derive from religion. Perhaps that's why the political upheavals have escaped the notice of your critical thinking?

There are essentially two faculties at opposition to each other here; faith and reason.

Faith is the belief and assertion of a position with no evidence and in fact in spite of the lack of evidence. For if there was/is evidence, then there is no need to appeal to faith. Any propositions supported by evidence is take as a fact of knowledge rather than an article of faith.

Reason is the faculty by which we deduce knowledge through the application of critical analysis using such tools as the scientific method. The fruits of reason and science are all around you today (medicine, computers, satellite communication etc) None of these would have been achieved through the application of faith.

When the clerical authorities held sway, it was widely believed that the earth was flat and that the earth was at the centre of god's creation and that man was the focus of his creation. All of these propositions were held as articles of faith. Today, through the application of reason these have now been comprehensively abandoned by all thinking men.

So you see; faith is a dangerous epistemic methodology for deriving knowledge.


According to literal biblical understanding, the earth is only about 6000 years old. Do you believe this as an article of faith or do you believe the scientific explanation of a 4 billion year old earth?

Please refer to the five points I made in my main article and come up with answers consistent with the scientific and religious worldviews and see to what extend they harmonise.

Hitler and Stalin were critical thinkers in their time. Put together, they are responsible for the death of at least 30 million people. Is this the kind of vision you have for Nigeria and Africa.

Religious fanaticism is not good. Neither is downright atheism. Both are extremes to be avoided

[img]http://www.1sted.dk/ii/ledere/hitler.jpg[/img]

[img]http://clapso.files./2007/08/stalin_color555.jpg[/img]

With due respect, you are not getting my point. I am not making an argument for atheism (although I would describe myself as having no god-belief - which is the correct definition of atheism). I am making an argument for scientific and naturalistic rationalism. I have asked several questions but you consistently avoid them. I wonder why;

Do you believe in the biblical age of the earth or the scientific age?

By the way, Hitler was a christian and he was never excommunicated from the catholic church and the Pope had his anniversary celebrated throughout Germany.

Stalin was atheistic later in life but started out as a siminarian. As wicked as he was, he was not motivated by the principles of rationalism.

What does Romans 13 say about rulers? And they all supposed to have been ordained by god? So was it gods plan to have rulers like Pol Pot, Hitler, Amin, Sadam?


Romans 13:

[b]Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. 2Consequently, he who rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. 3For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and he will commend you. 4For he is God's servant to do you good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword for nothing. He is God's servant, an agent of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer. 5Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also because of conscience. 6This is also why you pay taxes, for the authorities are God's servants, who give their full time to governing. 7Give everyone what you owe him: If you owe taxes, pay taxes; if revenue, then revenue; if respect, then respect; if honor, then honor.[/b]

Do you believe in the biblical age of the earth or the scientific age?

First of all, why is there such a marked difference b/w the biblical age and the scientific age?

Secondly, what was the motive of the scientists who calculated this scientific age?

A good number of these scientists are atheists and are always trying to ridicule the bible.

is this alphazee's cousin?

Imotep,

Thanks for your questions. Please allow me to explain if you do not already know.

Science is a purely human-created enterprise whose main motivations is the uncovering and understanding of nature and the reality around us. At its core, science has no biases; it is simple interested in revealing hitherto unknown facts about reality. It makes no arguments about ethics, metaphysics, technology, morality etc.

It is simply concerned with uncovering knowledge. I am sure you would have no opposition to science.

Now the interpretation and harnessing of science is another kettle of fish. Scientific output may serve as input into technology, morality, ethics and metaphysics etc. But this is where we have to be careful how we apply scientific knowledge.

For instance, the scientific discovery that splitting the atom generates vast amounts of energy can to be put to good and bad uses. The society as a whole (mainly politicians) decides what applications is made from such scientific discoveries.

So when scientist discovered that the earth is about 4 billions years old there were not driven by a desire to discredit christianity or religion or the bible. They were simple satisfying the human desire to understand our place in the vast universe.

Today, we know that the earth is but one planet in the solar system. Our solar system is one of several billions in the Milky Way galaxy and there are billions of galaxies in the known universe, which is estimated to be about 13.7 billion years old. These are facts that have been proved with very small margins of error.

Now I cannot account for why the bible implies the earth is only about 6000 years, simply that it is derived from Jewish mythology. In the light of the most plausible explanation, don't you think it behooves you to re-look at the biblical narrative?

Now I cannot account for why the bible implies the earth is only about 6000 years, simply that it is derived from Jewish mythology. In the light of the most plausible explanation, don't you think it behooves you to re-look at the biblical narrative?

God is still God independent of any bible narrative (coherent or incoherent). You will also not that science has failed woefully in determining the origins of the universe.

I think these questions should lead us to a more humble and loving approach to God. They should not lead us to run from the extreme of atheism to the other extreme of fanaticism.

Imotep,

Basically, what I am trying to do is point out the dangers of biblical literalisms. Any form of literalism about any of the ancient text is dangerous. For instance, literal understand of the bible misleads us in the understanding the following;

Human origin and the diversity of life on the planet. Present-day humans have only walked this planet about 120 thousands years, as proven from genetic, paleontological and acheological studies. There are simply no human fossils in the Cambrian rocks whereas there's a vast amount of other early lifeforms from that period. It is easy to find out - if you live next to a good museum, walk in and ask the curators. I am fortunate to live in Manchester (UK) quite close to a museum where these fossils are on regular display.

Global flood event as narrated in Genesis. There is simply no evidence that such an event occurred

The sun standing still in order to allow Joshua to massacre his enemies. It is simply not possible for this to happen.

etc, etc


Now you may still believe in god, but I urge you to filter such believe through some form of scientific rationalism. Otherwise the whole story looks very implausible.

By the way, how did you come to know about god and his nature. Did he inform you through a vision, dream, written text, spoken word etc? How do humans know the attributes of god and do these attributes correctly define god?

Science can neither prove nor disprove the existence of God.

Is this not a fundamental weakness of the scientific method

Imhotep,

With respect again, I am not arguing for/against the existence of god on this thread. I was making a point about interpretation of the bible. What is the correct interpretation; literal, metaphoric, allegorical etc. And how do you decide which portions to read literally or metaphorically or allegorically?

1) Should we interpret the creation story as given in Genesis literally or metaphorically in the light of the scientific evidence?

2) Should we interpret the story of the Jewish sojourn in Egypt literally given that there is little archeological evidence in its favour (I know this is an argument from silence, but this should cast doubt on its plausibility)

3) Should we interpret the Noah Flood literally?

4) Should we take the Exodus 21:17 literally?

5) Should we believe that jesus was born of a virgin?

6) Should we believe that state rulers are selected by god as given in Romans 13?



I would appreciate answers to these questions.

I think the main issue you have is that of exegesis.

Let me refer you to and article (and its references) on wikipedia -> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exegesis

You need to take a long, hard look at these things before you can make a [b]balanced [/b]conclusion.

Otherwise you run the risk of being an extremist of some sort ( for good or for bad).

Thanks for the link about exegesis. I shall be following that up tonite. In the meantime, could you respond to my six questions above, in your own estime opinions.

therationa:

Thanks for the link about exegesis. I shall be following that up tonight. In the meantime, could you respond to my six questions above, in your own estime opinions.

I suggest you search for these six questions on Wikpedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki) . You will find insightful articles and references there. Much better than any reply I can give you.

I am right in the middle of reading up on the exegesis link but will need more time to digest its content.

I wonder, when you talk to your christian brothers/sisters or prospective converts, and they were to ask you similar questions, do you have an opinion of your own or would you refer then to the site?

therationa:

I am right in the middle of reading up on the exegesis link but will need more time to digest its content.

I wonder, when you talk to your christian brothers/sisters or prospective converts, and they were to ask you similar questions, do you have an opinion of your own or would you refer then to the site?

Please take your time. These things can be involving.

With my christian brothers and sisters, we discuss ALL possibilities. Our faith is an informed one, not a blind one.

We know that God is darkness to the five senses of man. So, it is dangerous to subject Him to experimentation. It is bound to fail.

Perhaps you should also read about Near Death Experiences (NDE). A number of atheists (and theists) have had this experience. What they 'saw' is at variance with the concepts they carry about in their minds.

You can search [b]wikipedia [/b]for this.

Well, you are the believer and expert on the bible and the fact that you are not willing to defend it here speaks volumes about the sincerity and honesty of your believe. It may be that you are unsure to venture a tentative view, but it is still worth saying so.

Nobody is perfect. Nobody knows everything. We are all here to learn and not to shoot down people for their beliefs. people and learning is more important than beliefs. It is possible to criticise someone's belief respectfully without causing them personal hurt, unless they have become too intricately connected with such beliefs.

I am not criticizing you. I am just saying that the scientific method is not enough to understand the universe.

Science, for instance, has failed to discover the origins of the universe. Why do u think this is so?

Science, for instance, has failed to discover the origins of the universe. Why do u think this is so?

science hasn't failed, by saying science has failed, then science must have given up on finding the origins of the universe. actually research and theories are still being verified about the origins of the universe. why have theists failed to describe the origins of the creator by the way??

bawomol:

Science hasn't failed, by saying science has failed, then science must have given up on finding the origins of the universe. actually research and theories are still being verified about the origins of the universe. why have theists failed to describe the origins of the creator by the way??

Science will never pin-point the origins of the universe. No amount of string theory or any such thing will lead anywhere satisfactory.

Theists have never sought the origins of the Creator. The Creator has no origin. Take it or leave it for science to fumble over.

Science will never pin-point the origins of the universe. No amount of string theory or any such thing will lead anywhere satisfactory.

would u admit u have nothing to show the creator has no origin. at least attempts are been made to experiment on string theory. what empirical evidence do u have of the creator. pls i want to see more than just the "infinite" cop-out.

bawomol:

would u admit u have nothing to show the creator has no origin. at least attempts are been made to experiment on string theory. what empirical evidence do u have of the creator. please i want to see more than just the "infinite" cop-out.

Good. I was hoping that as a scientist, you could prove His origin (or lack of) using fourier transform, tensor algebra or those sort of things

Hitler and Stalin were critical thinkers in their time. Put together, they are responsible for the death of at least 30 million people. Is this the kind of vision you have for Nigeria and Africa.

Religious fanaticism is not good. Neither is downright atheism. Both are extremes to be avoided

Not this silliness again. I wouldn't consider Hitler a critical thinker. Stalin, yes, not Hitler.

What is downright atheism again?

The foundational basis for the christian belief is the bible and the belief that the bible is the inspired word of god. I have tried hard to understand from christians which parts of the bible are inspired and which are not.

I have asked them questions about issues in the bible about which I have/had reservations. Yet no answers have been forthcoming.

If these christians are presented with the doctrine of the muslims or hindus, I am sure they would be asking the same types of questions that I have asked on this thread. I would not expect them to believe blindly in the faiths of the Buddha, of Muhammed.

Why is it that when I ask these questions of christianity I get little or no answer? This has not been a discussion about the existence/non-existence of god, much as some would like to make it.

So let us get back on topic.

imhotep:

I am not criticizing you. I am just saying that the scientific method is not enough to understand the universe.

Science, for instance, has failed to discover the origins of the universe. Why do u think this is so?

Because the principles of science breakdown as scientists approach the smallest unit of time. That's understandable because they probably didn't exist prior to Space and Time.

imhotep:

Science will never pin-point the origins of the universe. No amount of string theory or any such thing will lead anywhere satisfactory.

I disagree. Strin theory has made great inroads into the question of the universe and possible branes.

Theists have never sought the origins of the Creator. The Creator has no origin. Take it or leave it for science to fumble over.

Untrue. The ancient Greeks have Zeus coming from Cronus, and as you go back it goes back to Nyx and Chaos. Some other religions have had a view on that too

KAG,

Whenever I get the Stalin, Hitler Pol Pot argument against atheism (which is a very bad argument anyway) I always given them back Romans 13; It never fails to do the job.

This is Romans 13;

[b]1 Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God.
2 Consequently, he who rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves.
3 For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and he will commend you.
4 For he is God's servant to do you good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword for nothing. He is God's servant, an agent of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer.
5 Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also because of conscience.
6 This is also why you pay taxes, for the authorities are God's servants, who give their full time to governing.
7 Give everyone what you owe him: If you owe taxes, pay taxes; if revenue, then revenue; if respect, then respect; if honor, then honor.[/b]