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Why Do Atheists Take Religion More Seriously Than The Practitioners? - Religion (2) - Nairaland

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Re: Why Do Atheists Take Religion More Seriously Than The Practitioners? by Nobody: 10:44am On Dec 07, 2012
FXKing2012:

Claiming hitler was a Christian tells me u wallow in ignorance. Pls try making use of google in order not to sound too ignorant.


Hitler was a christian. Ignorant one.


"God with us" was written on the Nazis belt.

As a young man he was confirmed as a “soldier of Christ.” His most ardent goal at the time was to become a priest. Hitler writes of his love for the church and clergy: “I had excellent opportunity to intoxicate myself with the solemn splendor of the brilliant church festivals. As was only natural, the abbot seemed to me, as the village priest had once seemed to my father, the highest and most desirable ideal.” -Adolf Hitler (Mein Kampf)
Re: Why Do Atheists Take Religion More Seriously Than The Practitioners? by Nobody: 10:52am On Dec 07, 2012
kwangi: Keep shut my friend if you're not sure what you are saying.
Are you blind?
Point out the beliefs I mentioned not universal in buddhism.
I expressly point the one that falls under that category out. Read through again.
Superior argument my Bottom.
My friend define god according to logicboy!


Not all Buddhists believe in reincarnation


http://www.elephantjournal.com/2009/06/i-dont-believe-in-reincarnation-am-i-still-a-buddhist/
http://buddhism.about.com/od/karmaandrebirth/a/reincarnation.htm
Re: Why Do Atheists Take Religion More Seriously Than The Practitioners? by UyiIredia(m): 2:04pm On Dec 07, 2012
musKeeto:
Dats all?

Not only that. Ypu should aware that there are more atheists hell-bent on seeing religion kicked out. This is proven by the existence of organizations such as the Freedom From Religion Foundation. There's a reason for the term militant atheist. However most people who defend Christianity know that atheism is pretty much here to stay.
Re: Why Do Atheists Take Religion More Seriously Than The Practitioners? by UyiIredia(m): 2:13pm On Dec 07, 2012
Double post
Re: Why Do Atheists Take Religion More Seriously Than The Practitioners? by UyiIredia(m): 2:16pm On Dec 07, 2012
Atheist:-D:


You are 100% right that religion will always be a part of humanity. That does not guarantee that the Abrahamic faiths will be around in 100 years time.

I can confidently say they will be around 100 or even 200 years from now.
Re: Why Do Atheists Take Religion More Seriously Than The Practitioners? by AtheistD(m): 4:02pm On Dec 07, 2012
Uyi Iredia:

I can confidently say they will be around 100 or even 200 years from now.

I will make a prediction . They will have to change drastically and modernise to survive the next 100 years. Xtianity might be able to do that but Islam cant.
Re: Why Do Atheists Take Religion More Seriously Than The Practitioners? by FXKing2012(m): 5:52pm On Dec 07, 2012
Logicboy03:


Hitler was a christian. Ignorant one.


"God with us" was written on the Nazis belt.


I shed tears for u since u have decided to continue in ur ignorance. Ignoramce is bliss!
Re: Why Do Atheists Take Religion More Seriously Than The Practitioners? by Bella3(f): 6:40pm On Dec 07, 2012
omo_to_dun:
No, he didn't have to. I don't like when folks resort to insulting others in other to make a point. Of course, I have been guilty of that too.

As per the discussion, atheism is not a religion. It is simply a disbelief in God. Simple! You can be an atheist and be a Buddhist, because Buddhism has no gods. There are no atheist beliefs or tenets. Some believe in evolution, some don't; some believe in the Big B_ang Theory, others don't. The only thing atheist have in common is that they don't believe in a god. Period.


thanks for the honest response. I used to think al atheists believ in evolution, gues i was wrong.
Re: Why Do Atheists Take Religion More Seriously Than The Practitioners? by Nobody: 7:36pm On Dec 07, 2012
Uyi Iredia:

Not only that. Ypu should aware that there are more atheists hell-bent on seeing religion kicked out. This is proven by the existence of organizations such as the Freedom From Religion Foundation. There's a reason for the term militant atheist. However most people who defend Christianity know that atheism is pretty much here to stay.



I can not force people to leave their beliefs. I dot think that one should be forced out of his religion. The best I can do is make my arguments against religion and it is left for the person to accept or reject


Most atheist organisations have the same approach. Atheists dont kill infidels or claim that non-believers will perish in hell
Re: Why Do Atheists Take Religion More Seriously Than The Practitioners? by turnstoner(m): 11:50am On Dec 08, 2012
kwangi: "In some awful, strange, paradoxical way, atheists tend to take religion more seriously than the practitioners" - Jonathon Miller.
I've found this to be true.
I don't know if anyone can give reasons why it is so.

If practitioners of religions do not take their religions seriously, what makes them religious practitioners? Perhaps they are all just pretenders (two-faced good fr nothing waste of everybody's time!) and atheists are right not to take them seriously. Well, someone has observed that its the opium of the masses. The masses? who wants to be part of the masses?
Re: Why Do Atheists Take Religion More Seriously Than The Practitioners? by kwangi(m): 2:31am On Dec 09, 2012
Logicboy03:


Not all Buddhists believe in reincarnation


http://www.elephantjournal.com/2009/06/i-dont-believe-in-reincarnation-am-i-still-a-buddhist/
http://buddhism.about.com/od/karmaandrebirth/a/reincarnation.htm
Firstly, this' not the issue.
Even if it was, your post failed you.
He even admitted his teacher's stance that belief in reincarnation is fundamental to buddhism.
Lack thereof would amount to something other than buddhism.

The second guy dey confused and was yarning bvllshiiit
all through the article.
Re: Why Do Atheists Take Religion More Seriously Than The Practitioners? by kwangi(m): 2:36am On Dec 09, 2012
omo_to_dun:
No one ever said that it equates atheism. That is why there are atheist Buddhists. If it does the term atheist Buddhists would be meaningless. Christianity has Jehovah. Islam has Allah. Buddhism has no gods. Period!



Buddhists beliefs do not entail the divine, as in belief in some deity. I have tons of Buddhists friends and none of them has ever spoken about some deity. If I am wrong, please show me some evidence.

And yes, Buddhists do offer prayers, for example:
May I be well, happy, and peaceful.
May my teachers be well, happy, and peaceful.
May my parents be well, happy, and peaceful.
May my relatives be well, happy, and peaceful etc


As you can see, these are not like traditional Christian or Muslim prayers. And all these beliefs still do not involve any deity. Buddhism is nothing more than a philosophy.

Who defines traditional?
A religion which it's goal is spiritual enlightenment does not have an idea of divinity?
"May my parents be well"! That's a prayer to me!
"May all the evil plans against me never see the light of the day"... What's the difference?
Re: Why Do Atheists Take Religion More Seriously Than The Practitioners? by cyrexx: 3:59am On Dec 09, 2012
Atheist:-D:


I will make a prediction . They will have to change drastically and modernise to survive the next 100 years. Xtianity might be able to do that but Islam cant.

seriously, you think Islam cant survive the next two centuries?

With the high birth rate among muslim communities, their strong Islamic indoctrination from childhood, refusal to modify and rationalise Islamic belief system in light of modern science and with the persecution and sometimes the threat of fatwa on those who dare to leave islam, methinks Islam is here to stay for a very very long time.

People will still need the comfort and community support that only religion can provide, even if religious claims are not verifiable and logically sensible.

Until humans are able to answer all the great perplexing questions of life and find meaning for their life without resorting to religion, religion is here to stay, maybe forever till the end of time.

I must also add to my prediction that secularism and humansim, which are based on atheism, will continue to flourish and increase all the more. More closet atheist will begin to come out. Some muslims and christians are secretly atheists. They just dont want to be ostracised from their family and friends by openly challenging and questioning some things in their religion. But in the future, it will be easier to declare oneself an atheist or agnostic.
Re: Why Do Atheists Take Religion More Seriously Than The Practitioners? by Nobody: 8:31am On Dec 09, 2012
kwangi: Firstly, this' not the issue.
Even if it was, your post failed you.
He even admitted his teacher's stance that belief in reincarnation is fundamental to buddhism.
Lack thereof would amount to something other than buddhism.

The second guy dey confused and was yarning bvllshiiit
all through the article.


Lol.

Your comment failed you.

You claim that a buddhist is confused about his own religion. The second article clearly makes the point that rencarnation is metaphorical to buddhists of today.

You misread the first link makes the point that there is no Buddhist heretic. The Dalai Lama clearly states; Anything that contradicts experience and logic should be abandoned. So the guy doesnt believe in reincarnation
Re: Why Do Atheists Take Religion More Seriously Than The Practitioners? by Nobody: 8:33am On Dec 09, 2012
kwangi: Who defines traditional?
A religion which it's goal is spiritual enlightenment does not have an idea of divinity?
"May my parents be well"! That's a prayer to me!
"May all the evil plans against me never see the light of the day"... What's the difference?

There is no god mentioned, just a hopeful statement. You didnt say "in Jesus/Buddha's name"
Re: Why Do Atheists Take Religion More Seriously Than The Practitioners? by kwangi(m): 11:09am On Dec 09, 2012
Logicboy03:

There is no god mentioned, just a hopeful statement. You didnt say "in Jesus/Buddha's name"
I don't have to say anybody's name.
All I have to do is PRAY!
Re: Why Do Atheists Take Religion More Seriously Than The Practitioners? by Nobody: 12:39pm On Dec 09, 2012
kwangi: I don't have to say anybody's name.
All I have to do is PRAY!

If not to a god, then by all means do.
Re: Why Do Atheists Take Religion More Seriously Than The Practitioners? by kwangi(m): 11:44pm On Dec 09, 2012
Logicboy03:

If not to a god, then by all means do.
Confusion!
Re: Why Do Atheists Take Religion More Seriously Than The Practitioners? by Nobody: 11:52pm On Dec 09, 2012
kwangi: Confusion!

Just give up
Re: Why Do Atheists Take Religion More Seriously Than The Practitioners? by kwangi(m): 12:06am On Dec 10, 2012
Logicboy03:

Just give up
On what??
Re: Why Do Atheists Take Religion More Seriously Than The Practitioners? by Denise216(f): 3:18pm On Dec 12, 2012
kwangi: "In some awful, strange, paradoxical way, atheists tend to take religion more seriously than the practitioners" - Jonathon Miller.
I've found this to be true.
I don't know if anyone can give reasons why it is so.

Atheists (including myself) don't take religion seriously-which is why we are Atheists. There is an interest in religion political, economic, and social systems and how they influence behavior. Most Atheists are also formerly religious so there is time given to reflect on how or if religion shaped their values/beliefs.
Re: Why Do Atheists Take Religion More Seriously Than The Practitioners? by kwangi(m): 9:23pm On Dec 12, 2012
Denise216:

Atheists (including myself) don't take religion seriously-which is why we are Atheists. There is an interest in religion political, economic, and social systems and how they influence behavior. Most Atheists are also formerly religious so there is time given to reflect on how or if religion shaped their values/beliefs.
I understand your point but I don't think it explains the regular urge of atheists to attack religious folks.
This ranges from derisive comments to quoting bible or koran in order to prove the stupidity of their religion.
Re: Why Do Atheists Take Religion More Seriously Than The Practitioners? by Nobody: 9:32pm On Dec 12, 2012
kwangi: I understand your point but I don't think it explains the regular urge of atheists to attack religious folks.
This ranges from derisive comments to quoting bible or koran in order to prove the stupidity of their religion.


A cornered animal will fight back.


Atheists and disbelievers have been abused, killed, discriminated against etc in the past by religious people for centuries, even up till today.



Yet, you ask why we criticise (not attack) religion?
Re: Why Do Atheists Take Religion More Seriously Than The Practitioners? by Denise216(f): 10:03pm On Dec 12, 2012
kwangi: I understand your point but I don't think it explains the regular urge of atheists to attack religious folks.
This ranges from derisive comments to quoting bible or koran in order to prove the stupidity of their religion.

You didn't ask me to explain why Atheists attack people who follow religious doctrine, your perception not a fact, neither did the OP. Usually when someone wants an explanation they ask for it, unless they're baiting.
Re: Why Do Atheists Take Religion More Seriously Than The Practitioners? by kwangi(m): 10:37pm On Dec 12, 2012
Denise216:

You didn't ask me to explain why Atheists attack people who follow religious doctrine, your perception not a fact, neither did the OP. Usually when someone wants an explanation they ask for it, unless they're baiting.
What did you think taking religion" more serious than the practitioners meant"?
I'm not baiting. I never said it was a fact!
Check again.
I'll appreciate it if you explain why they attack people who follow religious doctrines and the doctrines in question.
Re: Why Do Atheists Take Religion More Seriously Than The Practitioners? by Denise216(f): 11:18pm On Dec 12, 2012
kwangi: What did you think taking religion" more serious than the practitioners meant"?
I'm not baiting. I never said it was a fact!
Check again.
I'll appreciate it if you explain why they attack people who follow religious doctrines and the doctrines in question.

Your OP didn't state or imply in context that Miller's perspective was an attack, just that you found it to be true. Miller is pointing out an inconsistency, an observation not an attack.

Moving on to your question-thank you for asking-"why they attack people who follow religious doctrines and the doctrines in question."
Because religion and people who ascribe to religion aren't above scrutiny. Atheists give themselves the same liberty to condemn religion (and its followers) as religious people give themselves to condemn unbelievers and believers of a different doctrine.

There are no victims here. <This point is crucial because once an accuser puts themselves in the role of "victim" they not only remove their accountability, they elevate themselves above the rest of humanity.

2 Likes

Re: Why Do Atheists Take Religion More Seriously Than The Practitioners? by kwangi(m): 2:05am On Dec 13, 2012
Denise216:

Your OP didn't state or imply in context that Miller's perspective was an attack, just that you found it to be true. Miller is pointing out an inconsistency, an observation not an attack.

Moving on to your question-thank you for asking-"why they attack people who follow religious doctrines and the doctrines in question."
Because religion and people who ascribe to religion aren't above scrutiny. Atheists give themselves the same liberty to condemn religion (and its followers) as religious people give themselves to condemn unbelievers and believers of a different doctrine.

There are no victims here. <This point is crucial because once an accuser puts themselves in the role of "victim" they not only remove their accountability, they elevate themselves above the rest of humanity.
Relax. I think almost everybody understood the quote and it's context.

As for the rest of your answer, beautiful!
But you must realize that not every religion gives themselves the said liberty of condemning people of a different belief. At least, pagans don't.
I understand whenever religion is mentioned, Christianity and Islam comes to mind.
Re: Why Do Atheists Take Religion More Seriously Than The Practitioners? by Denise216(f): 3:23am On Dec 13, 2012
kwangi: Relax. I think almost everybody understood the quote and it's context.

As for the rest of your answer, beautiful!
But you must realize that not every religion gives themselves the said liberty of condemning people of a different belief. At least, pagans don't.
I understand whenever religion is mentioned, Christianity and Islam comes to mind.

Don't project, you used the word "attack".

Pagans aren't exempt from critique just because they don't offer them, there is no evidence to prove they don't either. Christianity and Islam are to religion what Blacks and Whites are to Race. There are plenty of other racial categories just like there are other religions but these are the groups that represent opposites that need to be negotiated in society.
Re: Why Do Atheists Take Religion More Seriously Than The Practitioners? by kwangi(m): 10:06am On Dec 13, 2012
Denise216:

Don't project, you used the word "attack".

Pagans aren't exempt from critique just because they don't offer them, there is no evidence to prove they don't either. Christianity and Islam are to religion what Blacks and Whites are to Race. There are plenty of other racial categories just like there are other religions but these are the groups that represent opposites that need to be negotiated in society.
Like I said before almost everybody understood the quote and it's context. There is nothing to argue there IMO.
Which human being doesn't have one or two things to say about the other?
But in this case, tolerance is the word. Pagans don't give themselves the liberty of condemning people of a different belief. Simple.
I feel you on the Christian/Islam explanation.
Re: Why Do Atheists Take Religion More Seriously Than The Practitioners? by Denise216(f): 12:05pm On Dec 14, 2012
kwangi: Like I said before almost everybody understood the quote and it's context. There is nothing to argue there IMO.
Which human being doesn't have one or two things to say about the other?
But in this case, tolerance is the word. Pagans don't give themselves the liberty of condemning people of a different belief. Simple.
I feel you on the Christian/Islam explanation.

I also said there is no proof that they don't. Considering their size, compared to Christianity and Islam, it could be a drown-out. The charge that Atheists "attack" Pagans was pretty far fetched. Pagan beliefs don't conflict with secular living and practitioners don't demand their beliefs be the root for social conduct. Most Atheists stand where religion (in practice) attempts to infringe on society (legal systems-this includes sanctioning death/violence/abuse, education, healthcare, politics, and the economy) in secular nations.

Some examples of the dialogue/attitude between Atheists and Pagans:
http://www.pagandiversity.com/witchcraft-spells/atheists-what-do-you-think-about-wiccans-witches-witchcraft-and-spells
http://www.politicususa.com/fundamentalist-kristi-watts-upset-that-atheists-do-not-hate-wiccans.html
http://www.city-data.com/forum/atheism-agnosticism/1132236-how-do-atheists-feel-about-wiccans.html
Re: Why Do Atheists Take Religion More Seriously Than The Practitioners? by Denise216(f): 12:23pm On Dec 14, 2012
kwangi: Like I said before almost everybody understood the quote and it's context. There is nothing to argue there IMO.
Which human being doesn't have one or two things to say about the other?
But in this case, tolerance is the word. Pagans don't give themselves the liberty of condemning people of a different belief. Simple.
I feel you on the Christian/Islam explanation.

And again, for the record, you considered Miller's quote an attack, not me.
Re: Why Do Atheists Take Religion More Seriously Than The Practitioners? by kwangi(m): 9:53pm On Dec 14, 2012
Denise216:

I also said there is no proof that they don't. Considering their size, compared to Christianity and Islam, it could be a drown-out. The charge that Atheists "attack" Pagans was pretty far fetched. Pagan beliefs don't conflict with secular living and practitioners don't demand their beliefs be the root for social conduct. Most Atheists stand where religion (in practice) attempts to infringe on society (legal systems-this includes sanctioning death/violence/abuse, education, healthcare, politics, and the economy) in secular nations.

Some examples of the dialogue/attitude between Atheists and Pagans:
http://www.pagandiversity.com/witchcraft-spells/atheists-what-do-you-think-about-wiccans-witches-witchcraft-and-spells
http://www.politicususa.com/fundamentalist-kristi-watts-upset-that-atheists-do-not-hate-wiccans.html
http://www.city-data.com/forum/atheism-agnosticism/1132236-how-do-atheists-feel-about-wiccans.html
They don't. What kind of proof do you want or expect. In what form?
That aside, YOU ARE ON POINT!
We're saying the same thing.
But...It's not really that far fetched considering the fact that any attack on religion or religious people covers Paganism.
This' what I mean. Do you think the response in the first link about witchcraft, wiccans, and all that would be the same if those involved were Nigerian Atheists?

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