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Pagan9ja And Christian by Nobody: 10:26pm On Dec 14, 2012
as you know i'm fighting against Christianity,trying to back o our original cultures or at least stop worshiping the white man(jesus ,pope ,christianism) in few words all western religion , in my quest of deliverance i'm always engaged in debates where i have to present facts and strong arguments ,the last one was against my brother a true and proud catholic as he called himself , i would like to help me debunk his theories and arguments well here it what he told me:


My brother: All religions are from Africa, the bible is based on several ancient African's scriptures. so there is nothing wrong to worship god and be a christians.

when i told him christians /christianism endorsed slavery and colonization he responded only bad apples , according to him we shouldn't blame christianism but the corrupt leaders of those religion, it is not the jesus/God who asked to enslave Africans but colons/kings/ etc themselves, their actions do not represent Christ's message but rather their own interests/ambitions and wickedness.like some pedophiles priests do no represent the whole priests congregation.
he also based his point on the fact that our traditional rulers aren't perfect but that shouldn't make us despise our cultures or stop electing/crowning them and perpetrating the tradition.

what do you think? historical facts are welcomed,i need you here my Pagan do not disappoint me undecided
Re: Pagan9ja And Christian by Nobody: 11:12pm On Dec 14, 2012
Re: Pagan9ja And Christian by PAGAN9JA(m): 7:59pm On Dec 17, 2012
CAMEROONPRIDE:

My brother: All religions are from Africa

first big mistake. is Hinduism from Africa? is Native American, Taoism, etc from Africa? the list is endless.



as for the abrahamic religions. Judaism is from israel, christianity is from israel (if hes talking about the ethipian church, let him be aware that it was formed much later after the conversion of ethiopians) and even then traditional practices remain in Ethiopia, and islam is from arabia.

, the bible is based on several ancient African's scriptures.

what scriptures? tell him to provide evidence? and these scriptures were written in what African language? the bible was plagarized from the old testament and other jewish texts. (thalmud/dead sea scrolls/torah, etc.)

so there is nothing wrong to worship god and be a christians.

no one is stopping him from worshipping God/ Gods (which God? the Creator/ The Destroyer/ the Fertility God? which one).
however the mode of worshipping must be corrected. it must be that of the indigenous natural way in which the Gods have programmed your ethnic group to do. all Pagan religions have the similar underlying concept around the world but the method differs. each one has its own way and style.

when i told him christians /christianism endorsed slavery and colonization he responded only bad apples , according to him we shouldn't blame christianism but the corrupt leaders of those religion,

corrupt leaders? why are almost all christian leaders, corrupt leaders? is this a co-incidence? i dont think so. for such a high rate of corruption and evil displayed by xtian leaders thrughout the ages, either that or something is wrong with the very religion and beliefs itself.

it is not the jesus/God who asked to enslave Africans but colons/kings/ etc themselves, their actions do not represent Christ's message but rather their own interests/ambitions and wickedness.

#1 jesus is NOT God. jesus was a man. an israeli jewish man.

christ was not directly responsible for all these evil actions, but indirectly, he and the bible are responsible for it. by averting blame from himself, his disciples and future uccessors are the ones who carried out his evil deeds and influence. the crusades, the forced conversion of europe, the rleigous wars that followed, the americas, etc. it is all a chain reaction.

a True religion is one that is naturally ordained by the divine forces. such a religion should be corrupt free and guilt free. but christianity has had so many attrocities associated with it. it is therefore not a pure religion. it is defiled. This is proof in itself that it is not of divine virtue.

like some craddle-robbers priests do no represent the whole priests congregation.

ah its good you mentioned the word "Some". but in the case of christianity, MOST are rotten. so therefore the most will account for the stereotype. the few good ones if any, do not represent christianity. because it is the majority that account for this religions actions.

our traditional rulers aren't perfect but that shouldn't make us despise our cultures or stop electing/crowning them and perpetrating the tradition.

pray what has traitional rulers got to do with despising the entire culture? The traditional ruler is just the reresentative. He is not a God or is not meant to to be a symbol of perfection. who says a traditional ruler has to be perfect in all aspects?

A Traditional Ruler must perform his duties perfectly. When the TRaditional RUler fails in this basic duty, he is ousted. remember what happened to the born-again Oba of Ondo State and how he was chased away from his palace because he failed in his duty as Traditional Ruler


http://dailypost.com.ng/2012/11/06/angry-youths-chase-traditional-ruler-palace-refusing-approve-festival/




In the very same way, christianity has failed in its duty as a religion. instead of being constructive towards society, it has destabilized it, stolen peoples identity and cultures and spirituality, failed education and progressive sciences, and brought the world upon its knees. such an irreligion must therefore go the same way as this useless Oba. angry
Re: Pagan9ja And Christian by Nobody: 10:47pm On Dec 17, 2012
^ thanks cool ,i will ask for evidences from him ,to back up his claims grin grin

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Re: Pagan9ja And Christian by ayobase(m): 10:05am On Dec 18, 2012
PAGAN 9JA:


first big mistake. is Hinduism from Africa? is Native American, Taoism, etc from Africa? the list is endless.



as for the abrahamic religions. Judaism is from israel, christianity is from israel (if hes talking about the ethipian church, let him be aware that it was formed much later after the conversion of ethiopians) and even then traditional practices remain in Ethiopia, and islam is from arabia.



......

Accepted, even if I didnt google for proof!


PAGAN 9JA:


......
what scriptures? tell him to provide evidence? and these scriptures were written in what African language? the bible was plagarized from the old testament and other jewish texts. (thalmud/dead sea scrolls/torah, etc.)

.......

Plagiarized?

What is/are the difference(s) among the Bible, the Old Testament, and other RELATED Jewish texts?


PAGAN 9JA:


.....
no one is stopping him from worshipping God/ Gods (which God? the Creator/ The Destroyer/ the Fertility God? which one).
however the mode of worshipping must be corrected. it must be that of the indigenous natural way in which the Gods have programmed your ethnic group to do. all Pagan religions have the similar underlying concept around the world but the method differs. each one has its own way and style.

........

Im happy to hear that you know God, the creator of Heaven and Earth!


PAGAN 9JA:

.......
corrupt leaders? why are almost all christian leaders, corrupt leaders? is this a co-incidence? i dont think so. for such a high rate of corruption and evil displayed by xtian leaders thrughout the ages, either that or something is wrong with the very religion and beliefs itself.

........

You said ALMOST!
Almost doesn't kill a bird, meaning that MAJORITY shoudn't be your basis to nail Christianity in that manner. Its like nailing Traditional Religions due to blood sheddings of the MAJORITY!

Corruption?....How?....Tithing?


PAGAN 9JA:

.......
#1 jesus is NOT God. jesus was a man. an israeli jewish man.

......

Yes, He was a man. He lived like a man throughout his stay. Not SPIRIT about Him.

Bible says He is God in John 1:1. The Word was God.

''I and my Father are one'' he said!


PAGAN 9JA:

.......
christ was not directly responsible for all these evil actions, but indirectly, he and the bible are responsible for it. by averting blame from himself, his disciples and future uccessors are the ones who carried out his evil deeds and influence. the crusades, the forced conversion of europe, the rleigous wars that followed, the americas, etc. it is all a chain reaction.
.......

Go study your history very well. Being a fanatic will only becloud one's sense of reasoning and judgement. Be logical and plain!


And if I may ask, how is Jesus and the Bible responsible for those?


PAGAN 9JA:

.......a True religion is one that is naturally ordained by the divine forces. such a religion should be corrupt free and guilt free. but christianity has had so many attrocities associated with it. it is therefore not a pure religion. it is defiled. This is proof in itself that it is not of divine virtue.
.......

Mention one religion that is corrupt and guilt free!
I guess you meant Christianity being defiled can be made whole again if some corrupt and evil doctrines can be filtered!

Your proof holds no ground still....u can prove me wrong still!


PAGAN 9JA:

.......
ah its good you mentioned the word "Some". but in the case of christianity, MOST are rotten. so therefore the most will account for the stereotype. the few good ones if any, do not represent christianity. because it is the majority that account for this religions actions.
........

Still playing a fanatic!
A corrupted system doesn't mean that the system is corrupt!

There is difference between corrupt and corrupted.....Adjective and Verb!


PAGAN 9JA:

......
pray what has traitional rulers got to do with despising the entire culture? The traditional ruler is just the reresentative. He is not a God or is not meant to to be a symbol of perfection. who says a traditional ruler has to be perfect in all aspects?
.....

.......

You support Traditional Rulers for not necessarily being perfect, yet you blame some Christians leaders for not being Perfect.....FANATIC!


PAGAN 9JA:

......
A Traditional Ruler must perform his duties perfectly. When the TRaditional RUler fails in this basic duty, he is ousted. remember what happened to the born-again Oba of Ondo State and how he was chased away from his palace because he failed in his duty as Traditional Ruler


http://dailypost.com.ng/2012/11/06/angry-youths-chase-traditional-ruler-palace-refusing-approve-festival/

......

In the same vein, a Christian leader that fails to perform his duty is being ousted by God, the appointer of the the appointees (Pastors)

That a Pastor is still functioning doesn't mean that He is still being called or being forgiven by God.

And besides, we were long time ago warned by Jesus of false prophets that are gonna come in his name.....that alone shows why we have HIGH degree of decadence in Christendom today.....false prophets up and down with greedy followers!


PAGAN 9JA:

......

In the very same way, christianity has failed in its duty as a religion. instead of being constructive towards society, it has destabilized it, stolen peoples identity and cultures and spirituality, failed education and progressive sciences, and brought the world upon its knees. such an irreligion must therefore go the same way as this useless Oba. angry

SMH!
-He failed in his duty by preaching peace despite the.....?
-Destabilized the society by killing innocent citizens, by devaluing Naira, by being terrorists, by what?
-Stolen people's identities, cultures and spiritualities by shoving the gospel of Jesus down their throat?
-Failed education and progressive science....hmmm....go study history properly to know who brought and are bringing to the society Sound Education and Progressive science.....not traditional rulers I guess!

Don't go from being FANATIC to BIGOT.....thats gonna be more deadly!
Re: Pagan9ja And Christian by PAGAN9JA(m): 6:18pm On Dec 19, 2012
ayobase:

Plagiarized?

What is/are the difference(s) among the Bible, the Old Testament, and other RELATED Jewish texts?


maybe the book cover and a few words here and there. lol. *smh


Im happy to hear that you know God, the creator of Heaven and Earth!

We Pagans never deny the fact that there is a Creator God/Force. However unlike you fellows who concentrate only on this Creator SPirit and deny all ohter forces, we believe in and worship all the Spiritual Forces that guide this our material Universe.


You said ALMOST!
Almost doesn't kill a bird, meaning that MAJORITY shoudn't be your basis to nail Christianity in that manner. Its like nailing Traditional Religions due to blood sheddings of the MAJORITY!

THe Majority speaks. it is your doctrine that is widely followed throughout the centuries. even now. who said blood shedding/ sacrifice is bad? it is based on the balancing of the forces concept. dont you eat chicken

whats the difference between sarificing on the altar and slaughtering in your kitchen?
except that the one gives extra positive rewards as well. .

Corruption?....How?....Tithing?

tithing, murdering Pagans, brainwashing (mentally corrupting), homo, destroying cultures, propagating rebellion, etc. .

i think you get the gist. .


Yes, He was a man. He lived like a man throughout his stay. Not SPIRIT about Him.

Bible says He is God in John 1:1. The Word was God.

''I and my Father are one'' he said!


God was not his father. and he was not GOd. if he was God, then you are also a God and i am also a God. tommorow i will claim to be a God and some fools will come and worship me. he was a fraud. if he was God, then he was a very useless one who didnt do anything, save heap destruction for the next 2000 years and for us to suffer for his sins.

Go study your history very well. Being a fanatic will only becloud one's sense of reasoning and judgement. Be logical and plain!


And if I may ask, how is Jesus and the Bible responsible for those?

what history? didnt those things and atrocities happen in the name of christianity? what kind of an irreligion is this, that propagates these acts? we dont need such a troubelsome religion! angry

how is jesus responsible? it is like me telling the entire story of Lion King, and then you come and ask me "Who is SImba?" *smh

jesus is responsible for the bible and the bible is the evil book responsible for all this attrocities. jesus is the root and these useless pastors and oyinbos are the branches and poisonous flowers.

Mention one religion that is corrupt and guilt free!
I guess you meant Christianity being defiled can be made whole again if some corrupt and evil doctrines can be filtered!

Your proof holds no ground still....u can prove me wrong still!

My Maguzawa Religion is corrupt/guilt free. the same goes for so many other countless Pagan/Tribal Religions.

no by defiled i meant that it is defiled. it is wasted. it is posion. irreversible. absolute. after all the crimes comitted in its name, we dont need this religion. there is no repentance in Paganism. as Tribals, we do not pardon the guilty. there must be acts of repayment made.

Still playing a fanatic!
A corrupted system doesn't mean that the system is corrupt!

There is difference between corrupt and corrupted.....Adjective and Verb!


The System is corrupt! you see from the very begining! angry

there was never any positive outcome . we dont need this evil doctrine. since the fall of the stable Pagan ROman Empire. . to date.

[img]
You support Traditional Rulers for not necessarily being perfect, yet you blame some Christians leaders for not being Perfect.....FANATIC![/img]


I just gave you an example, whereby what happens when Trad. Rulers do not perform their duties properly. (The OBa example)
by all aspects, i made a referance to his personal life in comparision to his duties.

In the same vein, a Christian leader that fails to perform his duty is being ousted by God, the appointer of the the appointees (Pastors)

That a Pastor is still functioning doesn't mean that He is still being called or being forgiven by God.

And besides, we were long time ago warned by Jesus of false prophets that are gonna come in his name.....that alone shows why we have HIGH degree of decadence in Christendom today.....false prophets up and down with greedy followers!


the duties of christian leaders go against public good. be it tithing or cultural supression, these go against the good and the interest of the people.

And these false prophets do not occur in our religions. neither do we worship them or believe in prophets. apparently there is something wrong in the doctrine, as i said before.

SMH!
-He failed in his duty by preaching peace despite the.....?
-Destabilized the society by killing innocent citizens, by devaluing Naira, by being terrorists, by what?
-Stolen people's identities, cultures and spiritualities by shoving the gospel of Jesus down their throat?
-Failed education and progressive science....hmmm....go study history properly to know who brought and are bringing to the society Sound Education and Progressive science.....not traditional rulers I guess!

Don't go from being FANATIC to BIGOT.....thats gonna be more deadly!


yes he failed in peace. even the JEwish Sarheddin were against him. the Roman Empire was very stable and prosperous. it was an era of Religious tolerance, no conversions, etc.

but he tried to stir up rebellion among the masses and that is exactly what happened. since then, the world has never been at peace. never trust a wolf in sheeps clothing.

-killing innocents, Nigerias bad economy, these are all a result of years of chain reaction. the xtian europeans coming and enslaving Africans by order of the pope, stealing our resources, etc. so on and so forth. .

-yes , i do not wish to relate how the Tribes & cultures of europe, SOuth America, phillipines were destroyed / almost destroyed in the name of the bible. and ofcourse even here in Africa. we are seeing that everyday.

-yes failed education and progressive sciences. werent Scientists condemned as heretics in medieveal europe. the once great Universites of learning in Cairo. Alexandria, etc, shut down or converted into religious centres.

wasnt it the church that almost hanged galileo and copernicus for saying that the world is round the list is endless. .

https://www.nairaland.com/752852/how-xtians-killed-science-example

Re: Pagan9ja And Christian by ayobase(m): 12:30am On Dec 20, 2012
PAGAN 9JA:



maybe the book cover and a few words here and there. lol. *smh




We Pagans never deny the fact that there is a Creator God/Force. However unlike you fellows who concentrate only on this Creator SPirit and deny all ohter forces, we believe in and worship all the Spiritual Forces that guide this our material Universe.



THe Majority speaks. it is your doctrine that is widely followed throughout the centuries. even now. who said blood shedding/ sacrifice is bad? it is based on the balancing of the forces concept. dont you eat chicken

whats the difference between sarificing on the altar and slaughtering in your kitchen?
except that the one gives extra positive rewards as well. .



tithing, murdering Pagans, brainwashing (mentally corrupting), homo, destroying cultures, propagating rebellion, etc. .

i think you get the gist. .


[img]
Yes, He was a man. He lived like a man throughout his stay. Not SPIRIT about Him.

Bible says He is God in John 1:1. The Word was God.

''I and my Father are one'' he said![/img]


God was not his father. and he was not GOd. if he was God, then you are also a God and i am also a God. tommorow i will claim to be a God and some fools will come and worship me. he was a fraud. if he was God, then he was a very useless one who didnt do anything, save heap destruction for the next 2000 years and for us to suffer for his sins.



what history? didnt those things and atrocities happen in the name of christianity? what kind of an irreligion is this, that propagates these acts? we dont need such a troubelsome religion! angry

how is jesus responsible? it is like me telling the entire story of Lion King, and then you come and ask me "Who is SImba?" *smh

jesus is responsible for the bible and the bible is the evil book responsible for all this attrocities. jesus is the root and these useless pastors and oyinbos are the branches and poisonous flowers.



My Maguzawa Religion is corrupt/guilt free. the same goes for so many other countless Pagan/Tribal Religions.

no by defiled i meant that it is defiled. it is wasted. it is posion. irreversible. absolute. after all the crimes comitted in its name, we dont need this religion. there is no repentance in Paganism. as Tribals, we do not pardon the guilty. there must be acts of repayment made.




The System is corrupt! you see from the very begining! angry

there was never any positive outcome . we dont need this evil doctrine. since the fall of the stable Pagan ROman Empire. . to date.

[img]
You support Traditional Rulers for not necessarily being perfect, yet you blame some Christians leaders for not being Perfect.....FANATIC![/img]


I just gave you an example, whereby what happens when Trad. Rulers do not perform their duties properly. (The OBa example)
by all aspects, i made a referance to his personal life in comparision to his duties.




the duties of christian leaders go against public good. be it tithing or cultural supression, these go against the good and the interest of the people.

And these false prophets do not occur in our religions. neither do we worship them or believe in prophets. apparently there is something wrong in the doctrine, as i said before.




yes he failed in peace. even the JEwish Sarheddin were against him. the Roman Empire was very stable and prosperous. it was an era of Religious tolerance, no conversions, etc.

but he tried to stir up rebellion among the masses and that is exactly what happened. since then, the world has never been at peace. never trust a wolf in sheeps clothing.

-killing innocents, Nigerias bad economy, these are all a result of years of chain reaction. the xtian europeans coming and enslaving Africans by order of the pope, stealing our resources, etc. so on and so forth. .

-yes , i do not wish to relate how the Tribes & cultures of europe, SOuth America, phillipines were destroyed / almost destroyed in the name of the bible. and ofcourse even here in Africa. we are seeing that everyday.

-yes failed education and progressive sciences. werent Scientists condemned as heretics in medieveal europe. the once great Universites of learning in Cairo. Alexandria, etc, shut down or converted into religious centres.

wasnt it the church that almost hanged galileo and copernicus for saying that the world is round the list is endless. .

https://www.nairaland.com/752852/how-xtians-killed-science-example





I begged you not to metamorphose into a BIGOT....u just did....CLAP FOR YOURSELF.
Remaining a FANATIC would have been better!

I dont have the time to start gesticulating with dogged stiff-nicked buddy!

Do have a very wonderful day ahead....and lest I forgot....seek for the truth, and it will surely set u FREE!
Re: Pagan9ja And Christian by PAGAN9JA(m): 6:49am On Dec 21, 2012
ayobase:




I begged you not to metamorphose into a BIGOT....u just did....CLAP FOR YOURSELF.
Remaining a FANATIC would have been better!

I dont have the time to start gesticulating with dogged stiff-nicked buddy!

Do have a very wonderful day ahead....and lest I forgot....seek for the truth, and it will surely set u FREE!


i think you suffer from mental-issues.

As A Pagan, it is my birth-right to be a fanatic. after all these past 1500 years when people have taken advantage of our openness and in order to destroy us, it is the birthright of every full-blooded tribesperson to be a fanatic. there comes a time, when enough is enough, we wont take sh!t from anyone no more.
It is time we fight back and get repayment.
Re: Pagan9ja And Christian by ayobase(m): 7:24am On Dec 21, 2012
Its so OBVIOUS who is suffering from mental issue.....do have a great day my friend, and stop deceiving people here on what you are not. The Devil's advocacy aint working....its better you stick to the other one.

U know I like u....for real!
Re: Pagan9ja And Christian by PAGAN9JA(m): 7:39am On Dec 21, 2012
ayobase: Its so OBVIOUS who is suffering from mental issue.....do have a great day my friend, and stop deceiving people here on what you are not. The Devil's advocacy aint working....its better you stick to the other one.

U know I like u....for real!


yes it is very obvious, and i dont believe in devil and all this bull*. you are a believer of the devil yes?
Re: Pagan9ja And Christian by ayobase(m): 7:49am On Dec 21, 2012
PAGAN 9JA:



yes it is very obvious, and i dont believe in devil and all this bull*. you are a believer of the devil yes?

That you don't believe in devil doesn't mean that he/it is not there!
Re: Pagan9ja And Christian by PAGAN9JA(m): 8:07am On Dec 21, 2012
ayobase:

That you don't believe in devil doesn't mean that he/it is not there!

i dont believe in it so it doesnt exist for me.
Re: Pagan9ja And Christian by ayobase(m): 8:11am On Dec 21, 2012
PAGAN 9JA:


i dont believe in it so it doesnt exist for me.

Correct, but told you mine!
Re: Pagan9ja And Christian by PAGAN9JA(m): 8:16am On Dec 21, 2012
ayobase:

Correct, but told you mine!

good so that makes you a satanist. you are a believer. of satan.
Re: Pagan9ja And Christian by ayobase(m): 8:58am On Dec 21, 2012
PAGAN 9JA:


good so that makes you a satanist. you are a believer. of satan.

That I know something or someone exists doesnt make me one....that I know that Sango existed doesnt make me a believer!
Re: Pagan9ja And Christian by PAGAN9JA(m): 9:22am On Dec 21, 2012
ayobase:

That I know something or someone exists doesnt make me one....that I know that Sango existed doesnt make me a believer!

good so you believe in Shango also. hmm. .
Re: Pagan9ja And Christian by ayobase(m): 10:10am On Dec 21, 2012
PAGAN 9JA:


good so you believe in Shango also. hmm. .

He once lived of course....just like MKO lived and died...does it mean I believe(d) in MKO....


LOL!
Re: Pagan9ja And Christian by PAGAN9JA(m): 11:08am On Dec 21, 2012
ayobase:

He once lived of course....just like MKO lived and died...does it mean I believe(d) in MKO....


LOL!

oh you are talking about the Shango King. ok.

now wetin be this MKO?
Re: Pagan9ja And Christian by ayobase(m): 1:15pm On Dec 21, 2012
PAGAN 9JA:


oh you are talking about the Shango King. ok.

now wetin be this MKO?

Moshood Kolawola Olanrewajo Abiola!

What country are you from?
Re: Pagan9ja And Christian by PAGAN9JA(m): 3:08pm On Dec 21, 2012
ayobase:

Moshood Kolawola Olanrewajo Abiola!

What country are you from?

oh Abiola is called MKO!

na wa this first time im hearing! grin

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