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The Meaning Of Al-Quran - Islam for Muslims - Nairaland

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The Meaning Of Al-Quran by truthman2012(m): 12:57pm On Dec 18, 2012
When Gabriel appeared to Mohammed, the first command he gave him was 'read'. Mohammed as an illiterate man could not read but after a torture three times, he was forced to ask ''what can I read''. This is where the quran derived its name 'the reading.

The narration above poses some questions:

Firstly, why should an illiterate man be forced to read?

Secondly, what was there to read as Gabriel did not come with any writing or book? That Mohammed asked ' what can I read' shows there was nothing to read. IT MEANS GABRIEL STARTED HIS REVELATION WITH A LIE.

Thirdly, after Mohammed was tortured to read, was he able to read afterward?

Fourthy, the quran was revealed as recitation which Mohammed memorized, how do you read from the memory of Mohammed as Gabriel did not tell him to write it down.

Fifthly, if Allah had wished quran be named 'the reading', one would have thought that Gabriel would come with the quran in written form and handed over to Mohammed to be read by people. Why wasn't it so?

I want the muslims to react to the questions first before I conclude that the quran is a bunch of falsehood and confusion.
Re: The Meaning Of Al-Quran by AbdulAdam56(m): 1:00pm On Dec 18, 2012
Did u heard dis or u read it?If u read it wch book?Pls
Re: The Meaning Of Al-Quran by truthman2012(m): 1:07pm On Dec 18, 2012
Abdul Adam56: Did u heard dis or u read it?If u read it wch book?Pls

Hear or read what? That the meaning of quran is 'the reading'? Or that Mohammed was not commanded by Gabriel to read? Are you a muslim? If you are, you need to acquire knowledge about your religion.
Re: The Meaning Of Al-Quran by Sweetnecta: 1:28pm On Dec 18, 2012
which group of people [tribe] you belong to mr. truthman2012?

if i know, i can use their story which you will be most familiar with [hoping you have heritage from that culture; stories, etc] to explain what Quran means.
Re: The Meaning Of Al-Quran by truthman2012(m): 1:35pm On Dec 18, 2012
Sweetnecta: which group of people [tribe] you belong to mr. truthman2012?

if i know, i can use their story which you will be most familiar with [hoping you have heritage from that culture; stories, etc] to explain what Quran means.

This does not answer the questions raised.
Re: The Meaning Of Al-Quran by Nobody: 1:56pm On Dec 18, 2012
Truthman,

Another thread of yours again.... Hmmmmm........ Ur third thread within 3days ........ Na wa oooo....... Is this not same topic we were debating in ur previous thread........


U have not asked a reasonable question here...... Because u shd be able 2 provide ur source where u read ''muhammad was tortured 3times and forced 2 read by Arch-angel Gabriel.......

It's like Questioning God, why was Jesus born with holy spirit as against the way other prophets were born.......

Ohhhh, the mother of jesus erred about holy spirit as jesus father was somewhere else in nazareth....... Do u see how crazy that sound...... Dats how crazy ur questions sound!!!


As a reasonable man which u claimed 2 be, the first question u will ask me is:


Donroxy, gimme the source where u read jesus was not born of Holy spirit but his father were somewhere else.............hmmm.......


I ve 2 come dis low 4 u to understand how ur question sound......



Give us ur source and we shall answer ur question......

Another vituperation and Propanga.......!!! Am expecting another thread of urs before Night........
Re: The Meaning Of Al-Quran by truthman2012(m): 2:10pm On Dec 18, 2012
donroxy: Truthman,

Another thread of yours again.... Hmmmmm........ Ur third thread within 3days ........ Na wa oooo....... Is this not same topic we were debating in ur previous thread........


U have not asked a reasonable question here...... Because u shd be able 2 provide ur source where u read ''muhammad was tortured 3times and forced 2 read by Arch-angel Gabriel.......

It's like Questioning God, why was Jesus born with holy spirit as against the way other prophets were born.......

Ohhhh, the mother of jesus erred about holy spirit as jesus father was somewhere else in nazareth....... Do u see how crazy that sound...... Dats how crazy ur questions sound!!!


As a reasonable man which u claimed 2 be, the first question u will ask me is:


Donroxy, gimme the source where u read jesus was not born of Holy spirit but his father were somewhere else.............hmmm.......


I ve 2 come dis low 4 u to understand how ur question sound......



Give us ur source and we shall answer ur question......

Another vituperation and Propanga.......!!! Am expecting another thread of urs before Night........

Are you quareling with the word 'torture'? Your islamic scholars know that is correct. But if that is your excuse for not wanting to reply, remove the 'torture' and take only 'forced'. Or was he not forced when he was told to read the first, second time before he finally responded the third time?

By the way, what does it mean when Gabriel strangled Mohammed the first three times he appeared to him? That is what I mean by torture.
Re: The Meaning Of Al-Quran by Sweetnecta: 5:31pm On Dec 18, 2012
by truthman2012: 1:35pm

Sweetnecta: which group of people [tribe] you belong to mr. truthman2012?

if i know, i can use their story which you will be most familiar with [hoping you have heritage from that culture; stories, etc] to explain what Quran means.


This does not answer the questions raised.
i hope you are not ashamed of your people, even if you are ashamed of yourself?

never mind. you were told that Quran is what is recited. what is recitation, considering that arabs were at the pick of poetry when Quran began coming as revelation?

we must know that even Taurah of Moses was words from God to Moses, the one who heard it. Take the case of the Burning Bush where he was chosen as messenger [as] to deliver message to Pharaoh, to the children of israel. God spoke. Moses heard. God didnt write. When God spoke, Moses didnt write because he did not have a pen and paper, or did he?

coming to your tribe or mine, your pick. we both agree that our forefathers were not ph.d. holders. in fact Adam was not. yet Adam was able to communicate. in his communication, he was able without any writing tell his children what God wanted them to do. it was disobedience that led to the killing of his brother, because God rejected what Cain offered.

this was part of the first revelation of God to Adam. when it comes to Muhammad [sa] God assured him that this revelation, the Quran will be a thing that will be easy on his tongue. In other words, it will enter him and it will be retained by him.


I remember my grandmother and those who were her aunts reciting the Quran from memory. none of them went to school and no of them went to Quranic school. They learned whatever they knew from hearing the imam when he led them in salah.


about knowledge in african society. we find that traditionally, we are oral people and our history is always passed down from old people to young, by speaking, orally. Obasanjo spoke about hearing the history of the yorubas from where they came from and their arrival in nigeria's south west from his grandfather. what is grandfather did, if it were revelation, like Quran, it is recitation. it would not be a once upon a time type of story, but a story as full command in revelation so that people learn spiritual lessons.

many people still recite, orally their tribal stories.

before you have a book written down, you must have the material recited orally.


and the jews who followed Moses in guidance will be different and already dead before the jews who rejected Jesus. the christians who followed Jesus in guidance will be different and already dead before the christians who said the laws of Moses and all the prophets were already nailed to the cross.

if the jews who rejected jesus were jews in religion, then the ones who followed the guidance of Moses, like Aaron, Joshua must not be jews in religion, but believers of what Moses and Abraham, etc believed. The christians who say the laws and prophets were nailed to the cross are the christians, then the christians with Jesus who didnt believe the nailing to the cross must be believers in what Jesus believed in, the religion of Abraham where you prostrate and obey God.

you will see that christian is only a term relative and it could be relevant, just like yoruba in nigeria is not the same as yoruba in panama, brazil, cuba, etc. definitely, the yoruba who arrived in these places will not be speaking the same yoruba that the people there are speaking today. definitely the makumba they call religion there in brazil will be strange to the yoruba who were brought there, first.
Re: The Meaning Of Al-Quran by truthman2012(m): 6:38pm On Dec 18, 2012
@Sweetnecta

I want to advise you to go back to the questions raised and read with good attention. Make sure you really understand it and respond appropriately. I still cannot connect your long story to the issue at hand.
Re: The Meaning Of Al-Quran by Sweetnecta: 10:21pm On Dec 18, 2012
let me advise you mr. truthman2012.

tbaba explained what Quran is to you. you dubiously refused to accept what the definition is among muslims.
the muslims practice the meaning of Quran, everyday.

you are neither a muslim nor an arab. how in this world created by God did you come to know the meaning of Al Quran more than muslims the world over?

if you are a nupe, how can i a non nupe man know the meaning of the word nupe more than you? if you didnt know how disingenuous your argument is, there it is. it is ridiculous that it stinks.


the arabs know the root word of QRN and in all forms it can be used. the book before it was written down was called Quran. The first verse revealed, indeed the first word is IQRA. you dont read what you are just told in oral form, but you must repeat it first as in recitation of what you heard.
Re: The Meaning Of Al-Quran by truthman2012(m): 10:46pm On Dec 18, 2012
Sweetnecta: let me advise you mr. truthman2012.

tbaba explained what Quran is to you. you dubiously refused to accept what the definition is among muslims.
the muslims practice the meaning of Quran, everyday.

you are neither a muslim nor an arab. how in this world created by God did you come to know the meaning of Al Quran more than muslims the world over?

if you are a nupe, how can i a non nupe man know the meaning of the word nupe more than you? if you didnt know how disingenuous your argument is, there it is. it is ridiculous that it stinks.


the arabs know the root word of QRN and in all forms it can be used. the book before it was written down was called Quran. The first verse revealed, indeed the first word is IQRA. you dont read what you are just told in oral form, but you must repeat it first as in recitation of what you heard.

You are still dodging the five questions I asked. This is unusual of you. Itemise them one by one as you used to do and respond to them individually before I draw my conclusions on the subject and make it known to the whole world.

If you don't know (as it seems now), you can link up with your co-anti christ agents for reinforcement, local and foreign.
Re: The Meaning Of Al-Quran by Geewan(m): 11:23pm On Dec 18, 2012
truthman2012:

I want the muslims to react to the questions first before I conclude that the quran is a bunch of falsehood and confusion.




What exactly is your confusion?

You already have a preconceived notion that no matter what these people tell you it aint going to change anything. Your heart is sealed and it is forever sealed.

"Verily, those who disbelieve, it is the same to them whether you warn them or do not warn them, they will not believe. Allah has set a seal on their hearts and on their hearings, and on their eyes there is a covering. Theirs will be a great torment." - Surah al-Baqarah verses 6-7.
Re: The Meaning Of Al-Quran by Sweetnecta: 12:17am On Dec 19, 2012
by truthman2012: 12:57pm
When Gabriel appeared to Mohammed, the first command he gave him was 'read'. Mohammed as an illiterate man could not read but after a torture three times, he was forced to ask ''what can I read''. This is where the quran derived its name 'the reading.

The narration above poses some questions:

Firstly, why should an illiterate man be forced to read?
an illiterate man or educated man can be asked to recite, which means repeat. if you know the story, Jibril [as] did not appear to him and forced him [sa]. He said to him, first, 'IQRA'. this word means recite if words are said to you, proclaim if order was given to you, read if a book is given to you. Since what he got was no order yet or book, he responded 'i do not know how to recite' to mean what is it shall i recite, if you will. It is after this that Jibril embraced him which he said was a hard squeeze. then harder and harder until Jibril says Iqra bismirabbikal lladhi khalaq [meaning recite in the name of your Lord Who creates]. then 4 more verses to make 5 in the first revelation. Did Jibril get the attention of the prophet, without mincing words? Yes. Jibril was instructed to give him revelation and he did not say anthing else but just the revelation. there is no "oya". 'do it' etc.



Secondly, what was there to read as Gabriel did not come with any writing or book?
so if you knew there was no book, why do you ask the first question, above? information can also be given by speech. that what happened.



That Mohammed asked ' what can I read' shows there was nothing to read.
how is i do not know how to recite which meaning there is nothing to recite [i am not a poet, so there is no poetry to recite] is meaning what can i read? are you sure you are not being lied to by your friends?


IT MEANS GABRIEL STARTED HIS REVELATION WITH A LIE.
how you made this leap of fate to arrive here is between you and your conscience. if Muhammad [sa] thought that he was to read a book, his response would not be what can i read. it would be closer to i do not know how to read since he was an illiterate. if you turn around to argue that he had a ph. d. it would be closer to there is nothing here to read.


Thirdly, after Mohammed was tortured to read, was he able to read afterward?
forced to conclude that he was to repeat as in recitation of what he was hearing. yes. he was able to recite and thats how we have the Quran, today. by the way we still practice the recitation, exactly. listen to what was revealed in the incidence that you are talking about. its the verses 1- 5. but the whole surah is in there by my favorite reciter;


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EU5OKeFg6LI


Fourthy, the quran was revealed as recitation which Mohammed memorized, how do you read from the memory of Mohammed as Gabriel did not tell him to write it down.
Muhammad [sa] was a man of future thinking. he had scribes to start writing them down, when it became a thing that is comng regularly. its like a sudden drumming of droplets of rain on your roof. when it starts, it is not all at once. it has an interval between the sound. you may not bring out you buckets to collect this. but when this now begins to be heavy, you can bring all kinds of collectors so that you will have many means of collecting what God is allowing you as blessing.

Muhammad [sa] had at least 4 scribes to memorialize the Quran. one of them was his cousin, Ali [RA]. at some point, the Quran was a book written in patchments, etc, but was called a book already in the 2nd verse of the 2nd chapter. That is a book is saying in essence at that time a book preserved in heaven, already. so it is not a surprise now to me that writing it down in the form that i have it now is a predicted even, a prophesy fulfilled.



Fifthly, if Allah had wished quran be named 'the reading', one would have thought that Gabriel would come with the quran in written form and handed over to Mohammed to be read by people. Why wasn't it so?
it is not the reading so your proposed idea is not working here. it is the recited and every muslim knows how to recite a part. we use it to pray. and you cant pray without knowing how to recite surah fatiha. i know many people who cant read the Quran in arabic, but can recite a good portion of it.


I want the muslims to react to the questions first before I conclude that the quran is a bunch of falsehood and confusion.
now that i have barely scratched the surface of the introduction to the science of Quran, we in islam are waiting for you to expose us, just like the way you exposed our 1 God concept by you saying God is 3 parts.
Re: The Meaning Of Al-Quran by proo212(m): 12:17am On Dec 19, 2012
More postulations but no answers. These are logical questions.
Re: The Meaning Of Al-Quran by Geewan(m): 1:02am On Dec 19, 2012
proo212: More postulations but no answers. These are logical questions.

Really?
Re: The Meaning Of Al-Quran by vedaxcool(m): 12:27pm On Dec 19, 2012
truthman2012: When Gabriel appeared to Mohammed, the first command he gave him was 'read'. Mohammed as an illiterate man could not read but after a torture three times, he was forced to ask ''what can I read''. This is where the quran derived its name 'the reading.

The narration above poses some questions:

Firstly, why should an illiterate man be forced to read?

As a child could read? Did you have any choice in matter whether to read or not? If not? Why did your parents force you to learn since you were a complete illiterate then? Answer this question and your have answered your question!

truthman2012:
Secondly, what was there to read as Gabriel did not come with any writing or book? That Mohammed asked ' what can I read' shows there was nothing to read. IT MEANS GABRIEL STARTED HIS REVELATION WITH A LIE.

Gabriel said recite! It means the Recital! Simple and short!

truthman2012:
Thirdly, after Mohammed was tortured to read, was he able to read afterward?

Since you practice evangelism by lies, I will leave you to find the source of your torture story, atleast why was Jesus tortured just because of other persons sin?

truthman2012:
Fourthy, the quran was revealed as recitation which Mohammed memorized, how do you read from the memory of Mohammed as Gabriel did not tell him to write it down.

Scribes wrote it down for him, the same way secretary take down the minutes of a meeting.

truthman2012:
Fifthly, if Allah had wished quran be named 'the reading', one would have thought that Gabriel would come with the quran in written form and handed over to Mohammed to be read by people. Why wasn't it so?

The qur'an is called the recital not the reading, as usual ignorance has no place in Islam, but for argument sake even the pagans of mecca asked why don't a book come from heaven, Allah reveals the truth the way he wants. Now I ask you the same question, if the bible was meant to be read why didn't God send down the bible in book form instead it came through a dubious inspiration business in which mathew and Luke copied wholescale from Mark?


truthman2012:
I want the muslims to react to the questions first before I conclude that the quran is a bunch of falsehood and confusion.




For one who worships a man the bible accords rapistz, inceztrous, aldultrous, murderous, prostitutious, etc ancestry to stand here labelling other people beliefs as false when the greatest falsehood lies on his palm must really be the only way you rationalise the unreasonable beliefs in the bible.
Re: The Meaning Of Al-Quran by truthman2012(m): 1:45pm On Dec 19, 2012
@sweetnecta

Your answers are off-points as they do not address the questions. I have advised you to link up with your fellow anti-christ agents (those you place their video) possibly they will be of help.

Let me help you a bit. Reading is different from recitation. Are they the same? You read only from what is written and recite from what is memorized. Mohammed was not commanded to recite but to read. Isn't it? My questions are clear.

Mohammed was commanded to read what? Gabriel had not said anything yet nor came with any written documents. Read what? Mohammed himself was surprised at the command and he asked 'what can I read'? Why? Because there was nothing to read.

What a liar is Gabriel and his sender commanding illiterate Mohammed to read when there was nothing to read. The Bible says Satan is a liar and the father of all liars (John 8:44).

Gabriel came introducing islam with lie and violence. He strangled Mohammed thrice for no offence. What can be more violent than that? If he could torture Mohammed who he wanted to use to carry out his deception, who could he not deal with. No wonder the killings being carried out by muslims throughout the world.

When Gabriel is blood-thirsty, he has the muslims he uses to supply blood. All muslim nations are never at peace. The Bible says there is no peace with the wicked.

Gabriel is a violent spirit and this is why muslims are violent beings. Their religion was introduced with violence and once they are possessed with the spirit of islam (demon Gabriel), they become wild, violent. The more a muslim read Gabriel's message (quran), the more wicked he becomes. Every alfa I know looks wicked, ready to kill.

Please note that Mohammed's Gabriel was not the same with Mary's Gabriel. That of Mohammed was a wicked and violent spirit from Satan while that of Mary was a gentle spirit from God as he didn't punish her before he delivered his message. Besides their messages are not the same.

A writer said muslims are the first victims of islam and so it is. Anything Gabriel/quran says against Jesus and Bible is a lie because he is a liar. Quran is the book where all demon Gabriel lies are stated in writing for the deception of mankind.
Re: The Meaning Of Al-Quran by maclatunji: 1:57pm On Dec 19, 2012
Some people get time sha. You are arguing with someone whose questions show that he lacks depth.
Re: The Meaning Of Al-Quran by tbaba1234: 3:43pm On Dec 19, 2012
Truthman is not here to reason. He has made no valid arguments on this thread.
Re: The Meaning Of Al-Quran by truthman2012(m): 3:56pm On Dec 19, 2012
vedaxcool:

As a child could read? Did you have any choice in matter whether to read or not? If not? Why did your parents force you to learn since you were a complete illiterate then? Answer this question and your have answered your question!



Gabriel said recite! It means the Recital! Simple and short!



Since you practice evangelism by lies, I will leave you to find the source of your torture story, atleast why was Jesus tortured just because of other persons sin?



Scribes wrote it down for him, the same way secretary take down the minutes of a meeting.



The qur'an is called the recital not the reading, as usual ignorance has no place in Islam, but for argument sake even the pagans of mecca asked why don't a book come from heaven, Allah reveals the truth the way he wants. Now I ask you the same question, if the bible was meant to be read why didn't God send down the bible in book form instead it came through a dubious inspiration business in which mathew and Luke copied wholescale from Mark?




For one who worships a man the bible accords rapistz, inceztrous, aldultrous, murderous, prostitutious, etc ancestry to stand here labelling other people beliefs as false when the greatest falsehood lies on his palm must really be the only way you rationalise the unreasonable beliefs in the bible.

I don't know how to answer you because you don't know the quran or you are lying which is another name for islam: lai lai (lie lie).

My friend Gabriel did not command Mohammed to recite but read. The likes of sweetnecta cannot say so.

Wait a minute: even if it is recite (which is not anyway), what has Gabriel revealed to Mohammed that he commanded him to recite? Wouldn't he tell him something first before he would command him to recite. He appeared to him the first time, Mohammed did not know him, no prior revelation and the first thing is command him to recite. Recite what? Liars.
Re: The Meaning Of Al-Quran by truthman2012(m): 4:03pm On Dec 19, 2012
tbaba1234: Truthman is not here to reason. He has made no valid arguments on this thread.

Tbaba, you surprise me a great deal. I thought you know more than this.
Re: The Meaning Of Al-Quran by truthman2012(m): 4:23pm On Dec 19, 2012
maclatunji: Some people get time sha. You are arguing with someone whose questions show that he lacks depth.

Many of you resorted to abuses because you don't know what to say. No courtesy, no discipline, no moral. A good religion should be able to incalcate all of those into you people.
Re: The Meaning Of Al-Quran by tbaba1234: 4:45pm On Dec 19, 2012
truthman2012:

Tbaba, you surprise me a great deal. I thought you know more than this.

It is true, you have no valid argument here.
Re: The Meaning Of Al-Quran by Sweetnecta: 6:13pm On Dec 19, 2012
by truthman2012: 1:45pm
@sweetnecta

Your answers are off-points as they do not address the questions.
this is the biggest proof that you are exactly how everyone here describes you: not interested in truth. shameful though that you have truth as part of your moniker. heck, your truth is about to expire at the stroke of 12 midnight december 31st.



I have advised you to link up with your fellow anti-christ agents (those you place their video) possibly they will be of help.
one of the benefits on me, is that God gives me the ability to think, knowing right from wrong, even when i indulge in the wrong. i do not need anyone on earth today to tell me what is truth except what Muhammad [sa] brought. i tried christianity and with all the freebies to attract a man, i rejected it.



Let me help you a bit.
shaytan will speak the truth that he knows that the one he is telling will not move away from. he will help so that you do not do the greater good. i listen and i i know that i need to avoid you after this.



Reading is different from recitation.
true. the truth that satan will speak so that you ignore the bigger truth.



Are they the same?
no. they are not. however you can read with your eyes, read aloud or not aloud with your lips. but you can only recite with your lips.


You read only from what is written and recite from what is memorized.
here is the beginning of your disinformation. it is your lack of knowledge that made me ask you what tribe are you from, so that i can use the oral history of your people to educate you about reading and reciting/repeating. when you recite first, it can be what is not written down, but what you are just hearing. like a song, it is not written down, but you are hearing it and you are repeating it. repeating it is reciting it. or what is reciting is to you the first time you recite? do you have to commit it to memory first, before you recite it the first time or it is reciting it the first time and often and or reading [if you can read] it that will make you be able to memorize it? some people are singers who can read a song. they can be song writer without being able to write or read songs. somebody will write down what they say.


Mohammed was not commanded to recite but to read.
he [sa] was commanded to recite. unless you have knowledge of what iqra means, that it does not mean recite, then you failed and you are a person to be ignored because you are disputing the truth, ignorantly.



Isn't it?
no.


My questions are clear.
your questions will earn you fs with me if i were your lecturer. if you are in my employment right now, you have lost your job because i will want to get rid of your type.


Mohammed was commanded to read what?
since there was no book there, it is logical that you are not teaching an illiterate to read but to recite by repeating what you are saying. some people.


Gabriel had not said anything yet nor came with any written documents.
was Gabriel saying Iqra? Yes. what is the meaning of Iqra but recite as in repeat, proclaim as in tell people, read as in written down so that you can recite it, again and again, to commit it to memory.



Read what?
nothing. but recite what is being said as in repeat.


Mohammed himself was surprised at the command and he asked 'what can I read'? Why? Because there was nothing to read.
is there anything to recite as in repeat [after me]? yes. there was something to repeat; what Gabriel was saying and Muhammad [sa] was hearing it.


What a liar is Gabriel and his sender commanding illiterate Mohammed to read when there was nothing to read.
Gabriel [as] who says recite and at the end Muhammad says "recite" is not a liar since there was no book and neither Muhammad nor Gabriel had different meaning of what Gabriel uttered. you sir are the anti truth. it is a shame that you have the word truth in your name. i know you are liar based on my experience of dealing with your kind.


The Bible says Satan is a liar and the father of all liars (John 8:44).
let me list satan for you. in your Bible, Jesus said to Peter, "get behind me, satan". the same peter that is your rock. you have built your spirituality on what has its bed"rock" in satan handwork. also, i do not have to remind you who the liar is; Paul who lied for the Glory of God. will the real God needs a liar when another comforter is on the way? no. Alhamdulillah that God made Muhammad [sa] correct all spiritual faults.


Gabriel came introducing islam with lie and violence.
look into your ot and nt to see what violence and lie really are.


He strangled Mohammed thrice for no offence.
so you think if an angel strangles a man the man will not have bruises on the "NECK"?



What can be more violent than that?
satan taking a person on the cliff is.



If he could torture Mohammed who he wanted to use to carry out his deception, who could he not deal with.
how about telling a person on the cliff to fall? how about killing a God? or you think those who killed your God are not satans? i want to read what you will do here. hopefully, you will defend the killers of your God as angels instead of satans. either way, you lose. i have an opinion that you will not answer, but turn bind eyes, once again.



No wonder the killings being carried out by muslims throughout the world.
including israel, America and others? How about Aluu?



When Gabriel is blood-thirsty, he has the muslims he uses to supply blood.
since Gabriel is not part of the Bible, tell me what killed the first borns of humans and animals in Egypt?



All muslim nations are never at peace.
we in Islam knows there is no muslim nation. there are nations where muslims are majority. even 100% of the population. But when they vie away from the Quran and Sunnah, we dont say they are muslim countries.


The Bible says there is no peace with the wicked.
read the fights between nigerians on this board. it s about tribes, for the most part and i have seen when igbo and yoruba fight. the fighters are almost always christians. now tell me where is the peace in christianity?


Gabriel is a violent spirit
he couldnt top the spirit that conduct the killing fields in ot. i hope you will address the nature of that spirit.


and this is why muslims are violent beings.
inshaAllah, i ma working on some christians to accept Islam. my effort, may Allah make it a success. Amin.



Their religion was introduced with violence and once they are possessed with the spirit of islam (demon Gabriel), they become wild, violent.
nigerian civil war; ojukwu and gowon. both christians. the first coup. christians. even awolowo and azikwe,both christians cant agree. awolowo and akintola, both christians cant agree. tell me what i dont know, already.

george bush; crusade against islam. imam hanza yusuf is the one who told him to change it because we in islam knows what crusade is. you want me to remind you of blood thirst that plagues you? i thought you said you have been here on earth for sometime? and you are letting me to remind you of world history? i believe your christianity is the culprit of this amnesia you are displaying.


The more a muslim read Gabriel's message (quran), the more wicked he becomes. Every alfa I know looks wicked, ready to kill.
i wonder if adeboye, etc, joshua who only sees evil are muslims? where do you live mehn so that somebody will tell you to go to your local pastor and see wicked soul. this summer one of your big pastors divorced his wife and put the ex on public display. there is something called dont kiss your wife and tell. come on.


Please note that Mohammed's Gabriel was not the same with Mary's Gabriel.
that Gabriel told her that holy spirit God is coming to mount her. i know. our Gabriel does not announce se.x. Our Lord does not mount anyone.


That of Mohammed was a wicked and violent spirit from Satan while that of Mary was a gentle spirit from God as he didn't punish her before he delivered his message.
was the satan that enter Peter, took Jesus on the cliff, etc the same?


Besides their messages are not the same.
after you bastardize the message, how can the message be the same? you cant make up your mind what God is between being 1 and 3. you cant even define Jesus, a human prophet or a God that is mark for dead?


This is my last response to you. InshaAllah. I see you as one who denies faith. May Allah protect all from the likes of you. Amin.
Re: The Meaning Of Al-Quran by truthman2012(m): 6:16pm On Dec 19, 2012
tbaba1234:

It is true, you have no valid argument here.

It is hightime I told you guys my sources so that you will know I have very valid points, not argument.

The Glorious Quran by Marmaduke Pickthall, Page 5 paragraph 3 under the Introduction. There you will find the quran as 'the reading'. I bought the quran about 35 years ago when I was still working with a Bank in Apapa, Lagos. I wouldn't know if that page has been tampered with now.

Again, search the Google with 'gabriel commanded muhammad to read' and click a site www.islambasics.com Other sites I would have given you say the same thing, but i know you will prefer islam site. I cannot paste the link here because I don't use computer.

But Nigerian muslims appear to be fanatical without knowledge or they search only for opposition against christianity. I am surprised this thread which is supposed to be a basic knowledge, they don't know it. It means their arguments are because of their ignorance.

Now that they can see it for themselves, I am impatiently waiting for their comments on or answers to the five questions at the start of this thread.
Re: The Meaning Of Al-Quran by pointblank123: 9:39am On Dec 20, 2012
@tbaba, donroxy, maclatunji and others. you guys asked for the source of the statements in this thread. Now that you have got it you are silent. your silence is because you have discovered the truth abt islam, that it is a false religion introduced by lying spirit.

are all ready to accept Jesus now or you want to continue with the false religion?
Re: The Meaning Of Al-Quran by tbaba1234: 10:13am On Dec 20, 2012
This has been addressed already, you argue from a position of ignorance and present it as fact. I could present other reference s that use the recitation.

From a historically perspective, we understand that iy means to read aloud or recite. You can't use 21st century goggles to look at history.

What did the Arab man mean by the use of the word iqraa?
Sweetnecta has presented other derivatives of the word, to show you how it is used and was used.

I am always shocked when people go to great lengths to prove a position borne out of ignorance.

As regards whose religion is false, Isay: wait..... we too are waiting. You will also come to know.
Re: The Meaning Of Al-Quran by truthman2012(m): 12:04pm On Dec 20, 2012
Tbaba, Hi.

There is no way a person can present ignorance as a fact. There is no method anyone can turn ignorance to a fact.

Alright, let's assume Mohammed was commanded by Gabriel to 'recite' forcefully. Recite what? It was the first time Gabriel appeared to him and his (gabriel) first speech was 'recite'. There was no prior talk or revelation to be recited. What was Mohammed expected to recite that called for punishing him. Gabriel only told a lie as an excuse to instil fear in Mohammed to compel him.

If you read how islam all started, after Mohammed's contact with Gabriel, he went home shivering as he recalled the experience. He was even of the opinion that Gabriel was an evil spirit. Mohammed was 40 years old then, he must know what he was saying.

Mohammed is to be pitied for being Gabriel's choice. He had no other choice than to obey otherwise Gabriel would kill him and that was why he first pressed or strangled him to show him a sample. Unfortunately he did not have protection in Jesus against such evil spirit.

Mohammed was not the first to see an angel. Even Mary (a young girl) saw the true Gabriel and there was no account of suspecting an evil spirit.

You said we shall see whose religion is false. When shall we see? When it is too late? You are my friend and hell is not a place one can wish anybody even one's enemy.

About google. Good is not the origin of anything. People post what they know there. Is the quran by Pickthall from google? Besides there are many islamic sites you can find on google (including the one I supplied) propagating islam. When did google become a bad source of info? All the lengthy posts against the Bible and Christianity by you and your mustim brothers/sisters are all obtained from islamic sites on the net.
Re: The Meaning Of Al-Quran by proo212(m): 3:42pm On Dec 20, 2012
If the all knowing, all powerful God sent Angel Gabriel to Mohammed to ask him to read or recite, and Mohammed the unlettered prophet recited or read straightaway, that would have been a miracle but even after three tries of forcing Mohammed to read or recite, Mohammed still couldn't read (one of his qualities as we all know is that he was illiterate which Muslim claim makes him unique) and he didn't lie by reciting what he didn't know. He said 3 times, that he couldn't read but for the sake of argument "recite" because there was nothing to recite.

I'm struggling to see the logic....
Re: The Meaning Of Al-Quran by truthman2012(m): 4:08pm On Dec 20, 2012
@Sweetnecta

Sweetnecta is trying to re-write the quran in 2012. Pickthall, a world-wide accredited interpreter of the quran wrote and I quote ''Al-Qur'an, The Reading, the Reading of the man who knew not how to read''.

Other islamic websites (including www.islambasics.com) say Mohammed was commanded to 'read''. But Sweetnecta says it is reciting not reading. A liar that he is. A misleader assigned by the devil to accomplish evil mission. He twists every truth with or without making sense.
Re: The Meaning Of Al-Quran by Sweetnecta: 5:29pm On Dec 20, 2012
@Proo212;
by proo212(m): 3:42pm
If the all knowing, all powerful God sent Angel Gabriel to Mohammed to ask him to read or recite, and Mohammed the unlettered prophet recited or read straightaway, that would have been a miracle but even after three tries of forcing Mohammed to read or recite, Mohammed still couldn't read (one of his qualities as we all know is that he was illiterate which Muslim claim makes him unique) and he didn't lie by reciting what he didn't know. He said 3 times, that he couldn't read but for the sake of argument "recite" because there was nothing to recite.

I'm struggling to see the logic....
when Jibril [as] said at the cave to Muhammad [sa] "IQRA" Muhammad [sa] cant pick up a book and read, cant proclaim any message or anything, but can only recite by saying what he heard. He heard Iqra and after hearing it repeated it. then he told people. He didnt add to or remove from what he heard.

Muhammad [sa] knew for himself that he couldnt read. That was clear enough and there was no book handed to him by Jibril. so it could not be "READ" that Jibril was meaning by the iqra. Muhammad [sa] was alone with Jibril who said Iqra. It could not mean PROCLAIM because there was nothing to proclaim.

If we look at all of the possibilities, RECITE was the correct one and the only choice at that moment for the arab illiterate [sa] who knew his arabic language, at least more than anyone alive, today.

Later, when Muhammad [sa] was told to proclaim the message, that very message was the Quran, which he would recite in his proclamation duty that God is One and He deserves all worships, in the way He ordains. Muhammad [sa] was never able to read the Quran he received, but the words he can recite and he proclaimed his prophetic office upon it. However we have today the Book that we call Quran which we did not have in his time. This is in itself a miracle fulfilled. We recite without a book, daily. We read it and recite it in Book form from the pages. We proclaim its message, even here to you now that God is One and not a Trinity, human, ghost, father, weak, wanting, incapable, etc, etc., etc.


i have heard of stories that some people memorized the Quran, without being able to identify a single letter or word. do they read the Quran or do they recite it? We in Islam under Muhammad [sa] are honest enough to say Mary is the best woman among world woman folks, Jesus is the christ, the very litmus of who is of God among those who will say they are "prophets" after Jesus, having a correcting message. somebody is here now beefing that IQRA has to be read and nothing else. What about recite which muslim do today? what about proclaim, which muslim do today in giving message? If a muslim says to me "iqra" Al Quran, i know that he want me to recite what i know from memory. if there is Quran around, i can pick it up and open and read in good recitation tone. If its at a rally or public, it is proclaiming to the audience even as i recite it by reading from the Book. What happens to its other meaning especially when there was no book to read at the time we are all discussing, now? do we decide to forget them and that will show that we are honest?
Re: The Meaning Of Al-Quran by proo212(m): 5:50pm On Dec 20, 2012
when Jibril [as] said at the cave to Muhammad [sa] "IQRA" Muhammad [sa] cant pick up a book and read, cant proclaim any message or anything, but can only recite by saying what he heard. He heard Iqra and after hearing it repeated it. then he told people. He didnt add to or remove from what he heard.

According to your argument, I think what Mohammed should have said was "Recite" 3 times when Jibril to him to recite...since that is what he heard Jubril say, Jubril did not tell him anything else (If you believe the word Iqra'a means to recite).

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