I think it's only enigma who seem to get the point of the op. the idea of a church without clergy.. It's still a church because they didn't have opportunity to have clergy ,pastors or teachers. But that doesn't change God structure for the church. It was only a peculiar situation. There's difference between those who didn't have opportunity to have a pastor sent to them like Timothy who was sent by paul . There's difference between that and those who rebell against the word of God and leadership structure . If I go to Saudi Arabia. I may worship alone in my hotel room because there's no opportunity for church service . But it's different if . Chose not to.

Philip did missionary work but he wasn't an ordained pastor, he had to report to the Jerusalem church who sent ordained people to lay hands on them. We can't look down on ministry offices .


Acts 8:12-17
But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women . .. 14 Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John: 15 Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost: 16 (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.) 17 Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost.

Oga Joagbaje, how now? When are we going to fight again?

Anyway, I trust that alafia ni gbogbo ile wa.

Happy new year --- but don't do that first fruit thing this year sha o.

Joagbaje: I think it's only enigma who seem to get the point of the op. the idea of a church without clearly. It's still a church because they didn't have opportunity to have clergy ,pastors or teachers. But that doesn't change God structure for the church. It was only a peculiar situation. There's difference between those who didn't have opportunity to have a pastor sent to them like Timothy who was sent by paul . There's difference between that and those who rebell against the word of God and leadership structure . If I go to Saudi Arabia. I may worship alone in my hotel room because there's no opportunity for church service . But it's different if . Chose not to.

Philip did missionary work but he wasn't an ordained pastor, he had to report to the Jerusalem church who sent ordained people to lay hands on them. We can't look down on ministry offices .


Acts 8:12-17
But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women . .. 14 Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John: 15 Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost: 16 (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.) 17 Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost.

The "pastors" that were sent to them appear to have had a specific duty that had them leave upon completion, not so?

.

Ihedinobi:

The "pastors" that were sent to them appear to have had a specific duty that had them leave upon completion, not so?

That's just to show theirs hierarchy in the church. I believe later pastors were either sent there or ordained among them. There must be leadership structure . God doesn't deal with us in mass . There's difference between personal relationship and personal devotion to God and the church. One man doesn't make the church and there's a church (local gathering) there' must be leadership .

Titus 1:5
For this reason I left you [behind] in Crete, that you might set right what was defective and finish what was left undone, and that you might appoint elders and set them over the churches (assemblies) in every city as I directed you.

Enigma: Oga Joagbaje, how now? When are we going to fight again?

Anyway, I trust that alafia ni gbogbo ile wa.

Happy new year --- but don't do that first fruit thing this year sha o.

Shall the sword devour for ever? . . .2 Samuel 2:26.

Happy new year in advance sir

@joagbaje

Philip was also an apostle and pastor,please get your facts right.

Philip was a deacon, and later became evangelist.

Acts 21:8
Then we went on to Caesarea and stayed at the home of Philip the Evangelist, one of the first seven deacons.

So you get your fact right. And if I'm wrong. Prove it . Thanks

@joagbaje

The philip mentioned in acts 8 was an apostle while that mentioned in Acts 21 was a deacon.There are not the same person

He was the same Philip , he wasn't an apostle . He was a deacon at first and an evangelist later. If he were an apostle why would he require other apostle to come an lay hands in acts 8 .if he were one of them? .

He was among the people chosen of the brethren to serve tables as deacons in acts chapter 6. The apostles laid hands on them .

Acts 6:5
And the saying pleased the whole multitude: and they chose Stephen, a man full of faith and of the Holy Ghost, and Philip, and . . . .

That's how he became deacon . But the calling of the evangelist began to manifest too. He began to move to different places to evangelise. The apostles didn't leave. Jerusalem but Philip left for different places . So he was both deacon and evangelist by office.

Acts 21:8
Then we went on to Caesarea and stayed at the home of Philip the Evangelist, one of the first seven deacons.

There was also an apostle called philip.The bible did not clearly state which of the philips was mentioned on acts 8.

Can I have a scriptural reference to it?

Joagbaje: Can I have a scriptural reference to it?

13 And he goeth up into a mountain, and calleth unto him whom he would: and they came unto him.
14 And he ordained twelve, that they should be with him, and that he might send them forth to preach,
15 And to have power to heal sicknesses, and to cast out devils:
16 And Simon he surnamed Peter;
17 And James the son of Zebedee, and John the brother of James; and he surnamed them Boanerges, which is, The sons of thunder:
18 And Andrew, and Philip, and Bartholomew, and Matthew, and Thomas, and James the son of Alphaeus, and Thaddaeus, and Simon the Canaanite,
19 And Judas Iscariot, which also betrayed him: and they went into an house.
MARK 3:13-19

12 And it came to pass in those days, that he went out into a mountain to pray, and continued all night in prayer to God.
13 And when it was day, he called unto him his disciples: and of them he chose twelve, whom also he named apostles;
14 Simon, (whom he also named Peter,) and Andrew his brother, James and John, Philip and Bartholomew,
15 Matthew and Thomas, James the son of Alphæus, and Simon called Zelotes,
16 And Judas the brother of James, and Judas Iscariot, which also was the traitor.
LUKE 6:12-16

so joagbaje you really didn't know an apostle was called philip?
I thought you are a pastor? Names of the apostles are what you should have on your finger tips

chukwudi44: so joagbaje you really didn't know an apostle was called philip?
I thought you are a pastor? Names of the apostles are what you should have on your finger tips

We are all learning

Happy new year, everyone. So sorry I have been incommunicado. Couldn't help it.

Joagbaje: .

That's just to show theirs hierarchy in the church. I believe later pastors were either sent there or ordained among them. There must be leadership structure . God doesn't deal with us in mass . There's difference between personal relationship and personal devotion to God and the church. One man doesn't make the church and there's a church (local gathering) there' must be leadership .

Titus 1:5
For this reason I left you [behind] in Crete, that you might set right what was defective and finish what was left undone, and that you might appoint elders and set them over the churches (assemblies) in every city as I directed you.

Hey Jo, how're you doing?

Yes, there is structure in the New Creation. We have no dispute over that. The Scripturs say that the head of the woman is the man, the head of the man is Christ and the head of Christ is God. Also they say that we should obey them that have the rule over us. But that is only one side of the picture.

The Scriptures also say that the unction that we have teaches us all things and we have no need that any man teach us anything. They also tell us to regard, that is, call, no man our master because we have only one Master and He is God.

The Scriptures evidently do not contradict themselves, so these two must be of one. While we are all at different stages of development and some have gained greater experience in the Lord and can thus help the less experienced and are called to do so, they are not to lord it over their brethren presuming to control their lives. To do so would amount to usurpation of the Lord's place in the Church, the place of Headship.

Therefore, those among us called upon to lead the others are more like babysitters for Him than replacements. Like Paul said, we travail for the younger ones till Christ has taken definite shape in them, that is all.

Enigma:




You see yourself. In your post, you abused me; I tried to be friendly and even wished you well; you come back at me with even more abuse. When I hit you now you will start crying and whining. Anyway, I will try and be understanding one more time because I recognise say na so de thing dey pain you reach.

Oh, by the way my posts have been very much in line with the message and intent of the opening post.

Will the Roman Catholic Church allow those Japanese Christians to take part in its "Holy Communion"?

They may be taught more but yes, they will. maybe u didnt read but japan was evangelised and baptised by st francis, we wasnt able to complete training or even ordaining a local clergy b4 persecution killed the missionaries. they are catholics by baptism.

The true church are those who are saved by the blood of Jesus.
Those who are justified by faith in Jesus alone
Those who worship God in Spirit and in truth.