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Anony's Christian Logic In Terms Of Tragedy Simplified; - Religion (5) - Nairaland

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In What Way Is God Good? Inviting Mr Anony And Any Intersted Party / Questions For Anony About Souls / The 'logic' In Atheism. (1) (2) (3) (4)

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Re: Anony's Christian Logic In Terms Of Tragedy Simplified; by mazaje(m): 10:23am On Dec 27, 2012
Mr_Anony:
The truth is that right from the start, we are God's creation and our existence is far more than mere bodily existence. Troubles, sickness and death have no power over us because once we know Him, we obtain eternal life. That by far outweighs whatever light afflictions we feel today.

If the bible is very wrong about things that we know and has been shown to be wrong on many of his claims about things that can be verifiable, why should any body trust it on things that can not be verifiable like eternal life?. . .If the life after death is sooo importamnt why then do christians always prefer to live than to die?. . .All the christians i know pray for long life and pray for god to heal them even when they have terminal diesease, non ever prays for a speedy death and NON shows that the life after is important because nON wants to die. . .

Think about it, the hard truth is that whether you like it or not, given enough time if Jesus tarries, both you and me and logicboy and all our friends and family as well as everyone we know will all die at one point or the other in one way or another. And some people will still cry for us and some will question God as if we were meant to live on earth forever.

The problem is not just about death, you claim you god is love, but there is NO evidence what so ever to show that your god knows anything about human love. . .A god that can not even protect his own can not be said to love them, no?. . .As i am typing this a lot of christians are been raped and affected by various accidents that will leave them permernently defoormed for life, and your god was just no where to help them when they had full confidence and call on him for help. . .Yet that god is love, eh?. . .You clearly do not under stand what love is. . .

If all there is to us are our physical bodies and death is just a mere ceasing to exist, then what does it matter how we live our lives if at the end we all die anyway, what would it matter if we believe in God or not or if we were serial killers and mass murderers? If in the end we all just die, why do good to anyone? Why not just live for our own pleasure alone? Why sacrifice for others and make anyone else's life better if both you and the person you are helping will eventually die in the end?

Are you truly saying this nonsense?. . .Because helping and sacrificzing for others will make the society good as a whole. . .So you are helping and sacrifizing for others only because you want some reward after you die?. . .Are you serious?. . .Hmmmmmm

The bible tells us that there is more to us than our physical bodies. Our souls are far much more important and that is who Christ really cares about. It is for the sake of our souls that Christ sacrificed His life. It doesn't profit us anything if we live in luxury all our lives and then in the end we lose our souls. Christ did not die to make our lives more comfortable. He died to give us something much more important than physical bodily pleasure. This is why Paul can say "for me to live is Christ and to die is gain."

I oponed a thread specifically for on on the soul so that you can explain what it means but you ran away from it. . .What is this myth called the soul?. . .

God is not a stranger to our pain. There are things we may not understand today but on the last day we shall see God and everything will be made clear to us. Nothing can seperate us from the love He has for us. Not sickness, trials, hardship, not even death. God's love by far outweighs all.

Frank, as long as your mother believed in Him, then her death is not the end of the story. You can be comforted that she will resurrect to life on the last day to the glory of God.

If all fails claim only god knows and throw in some religions words that have nothing to do with reality so that belief in mythology can go on. . .SMH. . .

1 Like

Re: Anony's Christian Logic In Terms Of Tragedy Simplified; by truthislight: 7:14pm On Dec 27, 2012
Logicboy03:



Satan asked God and God agreed.


Dont lie.

Either just avoid th story of Job or admit that you're a sadist like Anony

what?

Cant you read? Or your bias is blinding you?

Anyway, that will be your headache.

"So went Satan forth from the presence of the LORD, and smote Job with sore boils from the sole of his foot unto his crown." (Job 2:7).

Since i can read i dont need your opinion there ^^^ .
Peace
Re: Anony's Christian Logic In Terms Of Tragedy Simplified; by Nobody: 7:17pm On Dec 27, 2012
truthislight:

what?

Cant you read? Or your bias is blinding you?

Anyway, that will be your headache.

"So went Satan forth from the presence of the LORD, and smote Job with sore boils from the sole of his foot unto his crown." (Job 2:7).

Since i can read i dont need your opinion there ^^^ .
Peace

Why are you so dubious? Why did you omit the preceding verses where Satan asked God and God agreed?




Job 2;3-7
3 Then the Lord said to Satan, “Have you considered my servant Job? There is no one on earth like him; he is blameless and upright, a man who fears God and shuns evil. And he still maintains his integrity, though you incited me against him to ruin him without any reason.”

4 “Skin for skin!” Satan replied. “A man will give all he has for his own life. 5 But now stretch out your hand and strike his flesh and bones, and he will surely curse you to your face.”

6 The Lord said to Satan, “Very well, then, he is in your hands; but you must spare his life.”


7 So Satan went out from the presence of the Lord and afflicted Job with painful sores from the soles of his feet to the crown of his head.
Re: Anony's Christian Logic In Terms Of Tragedy Simplified; by truthislight: 7:21pm On Dec 27, 2012
wiegraf:

What does this mean? It says right they ate a fruit, no?

fruit what?

"dont you know that to whom you yield yourselves as servants to obey, his servants you are to him since you obey obey him? whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?" (Romans 6:16).

Who did Adam and eve obeyed?

Well, who they obeyed, such is his master and his children also.
Re: Anony's Christian Logic In Terms Of Tragedy Simplified; by truthislight: 8:18pm On Dec 27, 2012
mazaje:

If the bible is very wrong about things that we know and has been shown to be wrong on many of his claims about things that can be verifiable,



.

It really is rather curious that someone or rather some human tend to claim absolutedity in knowing/having knowledge, not even giving room for certain limitation that are obviously inherent in human.

It is only on this backdrop that you see human that ordinarily have limited life span and hence limited learning/knowledge make claim thus:

mazaje:

If the bible is very wrong about things that we know and has been shown to be wrong on many of his claims about things that can be verifiable,
.

and as such i am interested since i believe there are things in the bible that i am yet to understand but am still learning.

Considering that you know this much, can you help educate me on those things?


Am waiting to learn please.
Re: Anony's Christian Logic In Terms Of Tragedy Simplified; by Nobody: 8:22pm On Dec 27, 2012
truthislight:

It really is rather curious that someone or rather some human tend to claim absolutedity in knowing/having knowledge, not even giving room for certain limitation that are obviously inherent in human.

It is only on this backdrop that you see human that ordinarily have limited life span and hence limited learning/knowledge make claim thus:



and as such i am interested since i believe there are things in the bible that i am yet to understand but am still learning.

Considering that you know this much, can you help educate me on those things?


Am waiting to learn please.


So you have not hear of talking donkeys and snakes in the bible?


Or cures for leprosy based on some odd rituals?
Re: Anony's Christian Logic In Terms Of Tragedy Simplified; by truthislight: 8:24pm On Dec 27, 2012
Logicboy03:

Why did you omit the preceding verses where

"Satan asked God and God agreed"?
^^^

did you just post that? ^^^

well then, your argument is irrelevant since it was satan's request.

If it was God's requesting him and it was God smitting him i will have understood your argument.
Peace
Re: Anony's Christian Logic In Terms Of Tragedy Simplified; by Nobody: 8:27pm On Dec 27, 2012
truthislight:

did you just post that? ^^^

well then, your argument is irrelevant since it was satan's request.

If it was God's requesting him and it was God smitting him i will have understood your argument.
Peace


Shameless.


Just shameless. So Satan asks for permission form God to kill Jobs family and God agrees. You see no problem with that?


I will leave you to your delusion
Re: Anony's Christian Logic In Terms Of Tragedy Simplified; by truthislight: 8:34pm On Dec 27, 2012
Logicboy03:


So you have not hear of talking donkeys and snakes in the bible?


Or cures for leprosy based on some odd rituals?

do you really have any argument or you are expressing your limitation?

Ok, can you tell me the driving force/source for your heart workability?

There is a heart pumping right inside your heart,

explain what keeps it running simple.

^^^ this is not a talking donkey and it is not in the spiritual realm but rather very physical and right there in your heart so you can feel it and give me the answer.

Logicboy03:




Are you high on drugs?


Cant make sense of what you are trying to say!

is it that question up there that you dont understand?

Try again.
Peace
Re: Anony's Christian Logic In Terms Of Tragedy Simplified; by mazaje(m): 8:51pm On Dec 27, 2012
truthislight:

It really is rather curious that someone or rather some human tend to claim absolutedity in knowing/having knowledge, not even giving room for certain limitation that are obviously inherent in human.

It is only on this backdrop that you see human that ordinarily have limited life span and hence limited learning/knowledge make claim thus:

The bible has made a lot of major claims about things that can be verified and they turned out to be false . . .Why should we then trust the bible when it comes to things that we can not verify, things like eternal life?. . .I am not claiming complete knowledge of anything. . .That is your own making. .


and as such i am interested since i believe there are things in the bible that i am yet to understand but am still learning.

Considering that you know this much, can you help educate me on those things?

Am waiting to learn please.

Am lost, what exactly is it you are trying to say?. . .
Re: Anony's Christian Logic In Terms Of Tragedy Simplified; by Nobody: 8:54pm On Dec 27, 2012
truthislight:

do you really have any argument or you are expressing you limitation?

Ok, can you tell me the driving force/source for your heart workability?

^^^ this is not a talking donkey and it is not in the spiritual realm but rather very physical and right there in your heart so you can feel it and give me the answer.




Are you high on drugs?


Cant make sense of what you are trying to say!
Re: Anony's Christian Logic In Terms Of Tragedy Simplified; by truthislight: 9:00pm On Dec 27, 2012
Logicboy03:


Shameless.


Just shameless. So Satan asks for permission form God to kill Jobs family and God agrees. You see no problem with that?


I will leave you to your delusion

Hmmm!

So this is the good guy?:

"And Satan answered the LORD, and said, Skin for skin, yea, all that a man hath will he give for his life. But put forth thine hand now, and touch his bone and his flesh, and he will curse thee to thy face." (Job 2:4-5).
..............

You are a disgrace irrlogicchild.
..............

What is wrong with a father being proud of his son for being obedient?:

"And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil? and still he holdeth fast his integrity, although thou movedst me against him, to destroy him without cause." (Job 2:3).
..............
Beautiful, and i love such an appreciative father.

O yes, less i forget, this is what Yahweh says to me and others that loves him:

"My son, be wise, and make my heart glad, that I may answer him that reproacheth me." (Proverbs 27:11).
...............
Phewwwww. Yes dad, i want to.

I love righteousness and will try as humanly Possibly to make your heart glad by being obedient though satan and Adam could not.
Though satan said human will not and he is doing all thing possible to get human to be disobedient.

Though satan said we human will only serve you when you bribe us.

Yes Jesus did make your heart happy by being obedient to the end, a very fine example indeed.
Re: Anony's Christian Logic In Terms Of Tragedy Simplified; by truthislight: 10:52pm On Dec 27, 2012
Logicboy03:


So you have not hear of talking donkeys and snakes in the bible?


Or cures for leprosy based on some odd rituals?

do you really have any argument or you are expressing your limitation?

Ok, can you tell me the driving force/source for your heart workability?

There is a heart pumping right inside your heart,

explain what keeps it running simple.

^^^ this is not a talking donkey and it is not in the spiritual realm but rather very physical and right there in your heart so you can feel it and give me the answer.

Logicboy03:




Are you high on drugs?


Cant make sense of what you are trying to say!

is it that question up there that you dont understand?

Try again.
Peace
Re: Anony's Christian Logic In Terms Of Tragedy Simplified; by wiegraf: 2:21am On Dec 28, 2012
truthislight:

fruit what?

"dont you know that to whom you yield yourselves as servants to obey, his servants you are to him since you obey obey him? whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?" (Romans 6:16).

Who did Adam and eve obeyed?

Well, who they obeyed, such is his master and his children also.

Bros, I never understand anything you say, and I've told you this before. We speak different languages. No silly rhetorical questions, what happened in the garden of eden? Do I need a PhD to get it or not?
Re: Anony's Christian Logic In Terms Of Tragedy Simplified; by Nobody: 2:29am On Dec 28, 2012
wiegraf:

Bros, I never understand anything you say, and I've told you this before. We speak different languages. No silly rhetorical questions, what happened in the garden of eden? Do I need a PhD to get it or not?



This guy and Goshen speak in tongues.

Even Obadiah is eloquent compared to these guys
Re: Anony's Christian Logic In Terms Of Tragedy Simplified; by truthislight: 3:32pm On Dec 28, 2012
wiegraf:

Bros, I never understand anything you say, and I've told you this before. We speak different languages. No silly rhetorical questions, what happened in the garden of eden? Do I need a PhD to get it or not?

how will you understand what i am saying when you are a rhetoric personified?

What was the essence of this below when the rationality of what the bible says was being discussed? :


wiegraf:
And you talk as if god exists. Where?

with that out of context post i have to be more judicious with my time, hoping you will be more focus hence.

However, the tree was a symbol of Yahweh authority to guide human in his own best way.

As it were, between obeying Yahweh and satan Adam chosed to obey satan and as such went under the authority of satan, as a result of that Yahweh abandon Adam and his offspring as was shown by Yahweh driving them away out of Eden.

Since Adam obeyed satan, it means that Adam and his offspring are under the control of satan ever since.

That was the essence of the scripture that i had posted that shows the implication of Adam's action in Eden:

16 Do you not aknow that when you present yourselves to someone as slaves as to obey him, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, Romans 6:16
...............

Bearing that ^^^ universal principal in mind, Adam went under satan's control because he obeyed satan.

And as such we are still under the control/rulership of satan today.

Hence, whatever happens today, it is satan that should be called to answer and not Yahweh that had hands off right from Eden.

"And we know that we originated with God, but the whole world is lying in the power of the wicked one" (1 John 5:19).
.................

The means of solving the problem of all of mankind is in the coming of God's kingdom that Jesus had said we should pray for it to come:

"After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.

"Thy kingdom come".

" Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven. ""

(Matthew 6:9-10).

^^^

till then that the kingdom of Yahweh will come, satan remains incharge of this world till he is removed, and the failures are that of satan.
Peace
Re: Anony's Christian Logic In Terms Of Tragedy Simplified; by truthislight: 11:28pm On Jan 08, 2013
i seem to love this thread though, maybe because of the fine work of @honeychild
Re: Anony's Christian Logic In Terms Of Tragedy Simplified; by wiegraf: 12:21am On Jan 09, 2013
truthislight:

how will you understand what i am saying when you are a rhetoric personified?

What was the essence of this below when the rationality of what the bible says was being discussed? :




with that out of context post i have to be more judicious with my time, hoping you will be more focus hence.

Bros, I would ask you to focus. This is a post you direct at me

truthislight:

where did you see the word omniscience in the bible and where is such definition in the bible.

Dont define God and go ahead to fixe him into your context.

Next is predestination of all things, i dont think so.

Do you think you are in God's image and rational, but yet he God is irrational?

Note the bold. You are asking an atheist if he is made in god's image? Do you now understand why I asked this?

wiegraf:

And you talk as if god exists. Where?


Moving on
truthislight:

However, the tree was a symbol of Yahweh authority to guide human in his own best way.

As it were, between obeying Yahweh and satan Adam chosed to obey satan and as such went under the authority of satan, as a result of that Yahweh abandon Adam and his offspring as was shown by Yahweh driving them away out of Eden.

Since Adam obeyed satan, it means that Adam and his offspring are under the control of satan ever since.

That was the essence of the scripture that i had posted that shows the implication of Adam's action in Eden:

16 Do you not aknow that when you present yourselves to someone as slaves as to obey him, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, Romans 6:16
...............

Bearing that ^^^ universal principal in mind, Adam went under satan's control because he obeyed satan.

And as such we are still under the control/rulership of satan today.

Hence, whatever happens today, it is satan that should be called to answer and not Yahweh that had hands off right from Eden.

"And we know that we originated with God, but the whole world is lying in the power of the wicked one" (1 John 5:19).
.................

The means of solving the problem of all of mankind is in the coming of God's kingdom that Jesus had said we should pray for it to come:

"After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.

"Thy kingdom come".

" Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven. ""

(Matthew 6:9-10).

^^^

till then that the kingdom of Yahweh will come, satan remains incharge of this world till he is removed, and the failures are that of satan.
Peace

Ok, so that is what the fruit was, rejecting god in a sense, yes? Ok

But note, what you've described here is a dictator. A rather vindictive one that goes as far as punishing the descendants of people he banished for asking questions of his authority. To add more to the situation, he's supposedly omnipotent and omniscient, making his case particularly petty and irrational. No spin can change these FACTS except for redefining terms.
Re: Anony's Christian Logic In Terms Of Tragedy Simplified; by truthislight: 6:46pm On Jan 09, 2013
wiegraf:
Note the bold. You are asking an atheist if he is made in god's image? Do you now understand why I asked this?

well, for an atheist! Ok.

wiegraf:

Ok, so that is what the fruit was, rejecting god in a sense, yes? Ok

yes, a symbol of his authority and not s.ex. Lol.


wiegraf:

But note, what you've described here is a dictator.

a dictator would have killed them, not allowing any opposition to escape.

A dictator will have killed off satan, Adam, Eve, and all disobedient Angels at that instance, not giving satan an opurtunity to justify/defend his claims.

wiegraf:

A rather vindictive
how?

Your opinion though.

wiegraf:

one that goes as far as punishing the descendants

but the descendants also inherited their fathers characteristics haven't been operating outside devine guidance that has led to all sort of badness. No?

How can he relate with the unrighteouse while he is holy, holy, holy?

If you were putting on a clear white cloth, will you pickup/carry up on your body a mud stain child without an attempt at cleaning the child?

wiegraf:

of people he banished for asking questions of his authority.

No, they did not ask question they rebelled.

1. They said that Yahweh was lying. Called Yahweh a liar.
2. They said that Yahweh was not a good ruler, that he witched soothing good from them.
3. They coverted Yehwah's position as their God.

wiegraf:

To add more to the situation, he's supposedly omnipotent

^^^

if you mean most powerful(almighty) yes.

wiegraf:

and omniscient
^^^

i have not seen that word ^^^ in my bible.

You cannot abandon people an at the same time destined them.

wiegraf:

making his case particularly petty and

your personal opinion that is.

wiegraf:

irrational.

if your creator is irrational, then i wander what you are.

The brain he designed is a testament.

You are limited though, unable to get the ful picture yet.

wiegraf:

No spin can change these FACTS except for redefining terms.

adding is tantamount to a crime.


Like you can see, he Yahweh is not afraid of any person, his words are written in black and white and there is nothing anyone can do about it.

I dont need to twist, so, it makes it very easy for me.
Peace
Re: Anony's Christian Logic In Terms Of Tragedy Simplified; by wiegraf: 2:16am On Jan 10, 2013
truthislight:

a dictator would have killed them, not allowing any opposition to escape.

A dictator will have killed off satan, Adam, Eve, and all disobedient Angels at that instance, not giving satan an opurtunity to justify/defend his claims.

Yes, because there is a standard and precise way all dictators behave. This is disingenuous even.
https://www.google.com.ng/search?q=dictator+definition&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a

-A ruler with total power over a country, typically one who has obtained power by force.
-A person who tells people what to do in an autocratic way or who determines behavior in a particular sphere.

There you go. Or you noticed a democracy somewhere with regards to yah'weh? Your god is a dictator.

truthislight:
how?

Your opinion though.

No, not really. If I persecuted your children for some grievance I perceive you caused me, and they had absolutely no involvement in said perceived transgression, I'm definitely being markedly vindictive, no?


truthislight:
but the descendants also inherited their fathers characteristics haven't been operating outside devine guidance that has led to all sort of badness. No?

How can he relate with the unrighteouse while he is holy, holy, holy?

If you were putting on a clear white cloth, will you pickup/carry up on your body a mud stain child without an attempt at cleaning the child?

If the child was in pain, especially in pain I was involved in inflicting, I'd be more worried about rehabilitating him then how clean my suit was. And considering I was omnipotent in the first place...

truthislight:

No, they did not ask question they rebelled.

1. They said that Yahweh was lying. Called Yahweh a liar.
2. They said that Yahweh was not a good ruler, that he witched soothing good from them.
3. They coverted Yehwah's position as their God.

I'm not too sure what you're saying here, but how in this universe is an omnipotent being supposed to sulk over these Someone calls me a liar, I then punish him and his descendants? And again, the omnipotent creator of the universe? Do you not think that just maybe, maybe, he's a little more mature than that? You know what us imperfect humans would think of one of us behaving like this?

And rebelling does involve questioning authority, you know that, yes? We may ignore that though, depending on the nature of their 'rebellion'. Where they simply asking for more rights? Where they actively seeking to usurp him? Or did they simply just disagree with his opinions while harming no one else, or some other victimless crime?

truthislight:
^^^

if you mean most powerful(almighty) yes.


^^^

i have not seen that word ^^^ in my bible.

You cannot abandon people an at the same time destined them.



your personal opinion that is.

See above.
The only good thing about this is that you are at least aware of how mo.ronic insisting omniscience exists alongside free will is

truthislight:

if your creator is irrational, then i wander what you are.

The brain he designed is a testament.

You are limited though, unable to get the ful picture yet.


AAAAnnndd again, you address an atheist with the bolded?


truthislight:
adding is tantamount to a crime.


Like you can see, he Yahweh is not afraid of any person, his words are written in black and white and there is nothing anyone can do about it.

I dont need to twist, so, it makes it very easy for me.
Peace

Considering greater context, the bold there, that's a dictator. Again, that's a FACT
Considering sophistry and chicanery, I appreciate you don't twist as disgustingly as a few others. But there's no denying that fact; the xter yah'weh is a vindictive, immoral dictator. Not an opinion.



edit: bonus pic demonstrating yah'wehs logic. So, one shouldn't question our boss, hmmmm?

1 Like

Re: Anony's Christian Logic In Terms Of Tragedy Simplified; by wiegraf: 5:29am On Jan 10, 2013

1 Like

Re: Anony's Christian Logic In Terms Of Tragedy Simplified; by truthislight: 3:24pm On Jan 10, 2013
wiegraf:

There you go. Or you noticed a democracy somewhere with regards to yah'weh? Your god is a dictator.

rational i say.

In Genesis he discussed with Abraham as though they were equal.

Moses made suggestions to him that he accepted.

he will never destroy wicked people without first warning them.

Very reasonable to me I will say.

wiegraf:
No, not really. If I persecuted your children for some grievance I perceive you caused me, and they had absolutely no involvement in said perceived transgression, I'm definitely being markedly vindictive, no?

not when you were the source of a all good things that they had and even their life depended on their remaining connected to you, but their father cause you to leave him and his subsequent children.

That the father did not realise the result of his action does not mean you did not warn them.

If you unplug a fan from the power source the fan will stop running, Yahweh knew this an as such warned them(Adam and eve)

Yahweh is the source of life and knows that if Adam disobeyed him he will abandon him and this "unpluging" will result in his death and his subsequent upsprings.



wiegraf:
If the child was in pain

not when you have an infinite capacity to fixe whatever situation the child is perfectly, you will not be so desperate but look for a permanent solution to the cause of the child pain.
See:

"Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which

"all"

that are in the graves shall hear his voice, And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of Judgement " (John 5:28-29).

And:

"And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away." (Revelation 21:4).

wiegraf:
, especially in pain I was involved in inflicting,

he did not have a part in afflicting any thing.

"You can only take the cow to the stream you cannot force it to drink"

Adam chose another authority. So he allowed him to exercised his freewill just as he allowed angels in heaven exercise theirs.

wiegraf:
I'd be more worried about rehabilitating him then how clean my suit was.

and that is what he is doing by sending his son not minding the cost to him.

wiegraf:
And rebelling does involve questioning authority,

this rebellion is more than what you think.
He said that Yahweh is a liar.

Actually, satan started in heaven where he had caused 1/3 of the angels to rebel already.

The fruit was to help Adam not to cross the line like the Angels did.

Other faithful angels in heaven were watching the proceeding. To proof matters Yahweh allowed satan to proof his claims so that all will see who the liar and deceiver is.
and here we are, dying and suffering instead of "being like God". Now, Yahweh is justified to destroy.

wiegraf:
the xter yah'weh is a vindictive, immoral dictator. Not an opinion.

i dont think so and i dont see that any where am afraid NO.

wiegraf:
edit: bonus pic demonstrating yah'wehs logic. So, one shouldn't question our boss, hmmmm?

the passage of time was for satan to proof his claims and challenge.

We are all witnesses to how badly satan's claims have caused us.
Peace
Re: Anony's Christian Logic In Terms Of Tragedy Simplified; by wiegraf: 12:33am On Jan 11, 2013
truthislight:

rational i say.

In Genesis he discussed with Abraham as though they were equal.

Moses made suggestions to him that he accepted.

he will never destroy wicked people without first warning them.

Very reasonable to me I will say.

not when you were the source of a all good things that they had and even their life depended on their remaining connected to you, but their father cause you to leave him and his subsequent children.

That the father did not realise the result of his action does not mean you did not warn them.

If you unplug a fan from the power source the fan will stop running, Yahweh knew this an as such warned them(Adam and eve)

Yahweh is the source of life and knows that if Adam disobeyed him he will abandon him and this "unpluging" will result in his death and his subsequent upsprings.





not when you have an infinite capacity to fixe whatever situation the child is perfectly, you will not be so desperate but look for a permanent solution to the cause of the child pain.
See:

"Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which

"all"

that are in the graves shall hear his voice, And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of Judgement " (John 5:28-29).

And:

"And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away." (Revelation 21:4).



he did not have a part in afflicting any thing.

"You can only take the cow to the stream you cannot force it to drink"

Adam chose another authority. So he allowed him to exercised his freewill just as he allowed angels in heaven exercise theirs.



and that is what he is doing by sending his son not minding the cost to him.



this rebellion is more than what you think.
He said that Yahweh is a liar.

Actually, satan started in heaven where he had caused 1/3 of the angels to rebel already.

The fruit was to help Adam not to cross the line like the Angels did.

Other faithful angels in heaven were watching the proceeding. To proof matters Yahweh allowed satan to proof his claims so that all will see who the liar and deceiver is.
and here we are, dying and suffering instead of "being like God". Now, Yahweh is justified to destroy.



i dont think so and i dont see that any where am afraid NO.



the passage of time was for satan to proof his claims and challenge.

We are all witnesses to how badly satan's claims have caused us.
Peace

Tired, so expect typos.

We've clearly reached what I like to call the LALALALALA stage.

Consider this, did adam's descendants ask to be born? Did any of us ask to be born? So now, created imperfectly as we are by him, we are just supposed to arbitrarily follow his whims or face eternal punishment? Do you know how that sounds?

Say we have a world class dog breeder, universally hailed as the best there is, and probably the best there ever will be. Supposing said breeder is looking to breed a perfect whatever breed but fails through no fault of the puppies. He then forces them to live in completely terrible, inhumane environments despite being the richest man in the universe because one of the parent dogs (which he bred as well) bit him. When a dog is about to die, he either brutally tortures it for the rest of time in his specially designed torture machine which keeps them alive but in constant pain, or he puts them in a hippie machine which keeps them happy for the rest of time. Did you notice that he is torturing the 'bad' dogs for his own failures, yes?

Now imagine that when the law finally catches on and is asking him why he treats them so, he explains that they broke laws of the house. Laws arbitrarily set up without input from anyone else, ie the rest of society, etc. Laws like prohibiting running on sabbath and eating shell fish, or he simply didn't like their parents. All these crimes he deemed punishable by death, he encouraged the other dogs to track down transgressors and beat them mercilessly until they were barely alive. They then deliver them to him so he could proceed to put them in his eternal torture machine. And these laws he didn't even bother to enforce or train into the dogs himself, he just left some vague clues then leaned back into his recliner and watched the dogs occasionally rape and eat themselves. To compound on this, he does not torture even the cannibalistic dogs if they eventually learn to answer his special whistle, he tortures all the others that do not learn this trick though, regardless of how good they might have been.

This is how crazy yahweh looks. And yes, do note, we are not dogs. We are sentient, so suffering comes with a little more baggage for us as we can reflect on it.

The bold again, he has unlimited capacity to fix the problem, then what is he waiting for? What you've been describing isn't the traditional omnipotent. What you describe goes to war and seems very afraid of losing, is this correct? So what is your definition of omnipotent
Re: Anony's Christian Logic In Terms Of Tragedy Simplified; by truthislight: 9:14am On Jan 11, 2013
wiegraf:


Consider this, did adam's descendants ask to be born? Did any of us ask to be born? So now, created imperfectly as we are by him, we are just supposed to arbitrarily follow his whims or face eternal punishment? Do you know how that sounds?


the instruction from the start was "be fruitful and become many and fill the earth"

so, it was not a later thought that children will be born.

Sexual acts naturally produces osprings.

Children at no time ever asked to be born.

It is just a natural thing for children to inherit what their parent have/leave behind for them.

Some health/wealth
Some sickness.

wiegraf:
Say we have a world class dog breeder, universally hailed as the best there is, and probably the best there ever will be. Supposing said breeder is looking to breed a perfect whatever breed but fails through no fault of the puppies.

No, the parent puppies were created perfectly, but the parent puppies rejected their creator/designer and went after another "supposed" breeder that was not the original designer/creator and another "user" manual was used to regulate them which was not the designers specified manuals.
^^^
what sort of result do expect?


wiegraf:
He then forces them to live in completely terrible, inhumane environments despite being the richest man in the universe because one of the parent dogs


the condition they live now is a function of the (inefficient) provision provided by the new custodian who by the way is not the designer and is ill equip to fit into the role he has taken upon himself because of envy and pride.

The plan was a paradise and still is.
The blame is rather on the new impostor breeder.

wiegraf:
(which he bred as well) bit him. When a dog is about to die, he either brutally tortures it for the rest of time in his specially designed torture machine which keeps them alive but in constant pain,


thats a lie designed by the impostor breeder that is running things to forment hatred for the original designer.

The bible does not teach eternal torment.

The use of the word fire in the bible is symbolic.

Two kinds of physical death exist in the bible.

1. One is the death due to Adam's action via inheritance/transfer to his children, in this, there is a promise that "all" will come back to life.

2. And A death meted out by God himself, in this there is no more hope of resurrection it is an everlasting/permanent death.

This death caused by the almighty is represented by the word "fire" in the bible.
It is an abuse when it is taken to be literal.

When the word "fire" is used, it is to signify that the destruction is from God and that it is a permanent death and no coming back/resurrection.

Then, the word "fire" marks the difference from the regular death of mankind resulting from Adam and the one caused by the almighty God so that we know the difference in the bible.

So, eternal torment is not a bible teaching but a misunderstanding of the use of the word "fire" in the bible.

wiegraf:
or he puts them in a hippie machine which keeps them happy for the rest of time. Did you notice that he is torturing the 'bad' dogs for his own failures, yes?


like i have said, that is a misconception based on the understanding of the use of the word fire.

wiegraf:
Now imagine that when the law finally catches on and is asking him why he treats them so, he explains that they broke laws of the house. Laws arbitrarily set up without input from anyone else, ie the rest of society,


nothing "catches" up on Yahweh since from the start in Eden he had already put this plans in motion out of his own volition.


wiegraf:
Laws like prohibiting running on sabbath and eating shell fish, or he simply didn't like their parents. All these crimes he deemed punishable by death,


the laws that were given to the Jews was aim toward keeping them different from other nation and the things those nations do so that satan cannot easily access them.

If satan access them the Jews then he would have used them to work against the coming of the massaiah.

Because of this greater benefit that will reconcile all man back to God, any disobedient person was put to death, and it also serve to teach a lesson to us today.

Besides, disobedience from Adam is why we are in this condition today, such will not be tolerated for ever.

wiegraf:
he encouraged the other dogs to track down transgressors and beat them mercilessly until they were barely alive. They then deliver them to him so he could proceed to put them in his eternal torture machine.

Like i have said up there, there is no such thing.
The bible does not support that teaching, it is an out of context doctrine.

The wages of sin is death and not everlasting
live in torment/fire.

wiegraf:
And these laws he didn't even bother to enforce or train into the dogs himself, he just left some vague clues then leaned back into his recliner and watched the dogs


Adam was a free moral agent just like the angels, he was free to do whatever he likes.

The tree was actually meant to help him set boundaries so that he does not start following satan ignorantly. no law no boundaries, so, the tree help him track the bad guy.


Yehwah always educate those he gives his laws to, he did to the nation of Israel.

wiegraf:
occasionally rape and eat themselves. To compound on this, he does not torture even the cannibalistic dogs if they eventually learn to answer his special whistle, he tortures all the others that do not learn this trick though, regardless of how good they might have been.


this ^^^ is not true. Yahweh always warns people.


wiegraf:
The bold again, he has unlimited capacity to fix the problem, then what is he waiting for?

for all mankind to be warned first in all the earth:
"And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come. " (Matthew 24:14).

wiegraf:

What you've been describing isn't the traditional omnipotent. What you describe goes to war and seems very afraid of losing, is this correct? So what is your definition of omnipotent

error.
He cannot lose in war!.
He only ask the humans that do the fighting to obey his instructions and do exactly as he had commanded, failure to he abandons them.
His plea is for compliance.
He did took on all the gods and defeated them.
Peace
Re: Anony's Christian Logic In Terms Of Tragedy Simplified; by truthislight: 9:36am On Jan 11, 2013
there is no doubt who the almighty God is.

Yahweh/Jehovah went to the then world power egypt and defeated their gods to set his people free.

He defeated all the gods of the canannites.

He decreed the rise and fall of the world powers. (this by the way is recorded in the bible)

so many scriptures attest to this.

See:
"Remember the former things of old: for I am Jehovah and there is none else; I am Jehovah and there is none like me," (Isaiah 46:9).

And

"And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by the name of God Almighty, but by my name JEHOVAH was I not known to them." (Exodus 6:3).

Yahweh/Jehovah = Almighty God.

Ie. all the might(power) belongs to him = almighty.(all might).


The other gods by the way are angels turned Demons, Rebels.

Satan also was a former angel.

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