After a lengthy debate on the servanthood of Christ, I was impressed by just one verse that nailed it for me on the issue of the Christ being part of the Godhead, thus God, in other words, trinity.

This verse,

John 1:18
18 No one has ever seen God, but God the One and Only, who is at the Father's side, has made him known.
NIV


John 1:18
18 No man has ever seen God at any time; the only unique Son, or the only begotten God, Who is in the bosom [in the intimate presence] of the Father, He has declared Him [He has revealed Him and brought Him out where He can be seen; He has interpreted Him and He has made Him known].
AMP

Was amazed at the above verse. Early this morning, after my morning prayer, I was thinking of frosbel how now he believes that the Godhead doctrine (trinity) is a farce and not logically correct to the human understanding and thus preventing anti-Trinitarians –Muslims, Jews and even atheists from coming to the saving knowledge of Christ. Well as in your post, many things are not logically acceptable to the carnal mind such as the virgin birth, the resurrection of Christ etc

I remembered one of your pro-Trinitarian stance which was beautifully written. I have been searching for that post for some time until today, using frosbel +trinity +2010 in google that I finally saw it and was I overjoyed, thank you , begotten God.

Frosbel, what has really made you to do a u-turn from a Trinitarian to a “monotheistic” believer? Yes I believe that trying to uphold the belief that God is One sounds plausible and quite acceptable to the human understanding. But in no way does it answer all the questions that will come when you see the Godhead scriptures such as the above. Rather I am of the opinion that Trinitarians have a wider or broader scope of accepting the Oneness of God and at the same time, the doctrine of the Godhead (trinity) instead of just limiting to monotheistic belief about God.

However, your belief in whatever is your choice and I have no qualms about that but the post you did (copied below) is one of my best article on the defense of the trinity. And hope you will take time to read it all over again.

NB: You have to be patient, it’s a long post but you would get the gist. Also this is for those that believe in Jesus Christ only please, thank you.

Many have adopted this accusation as the main complaint of hindrance to believing in evangelical Christianity. There is no other concept of God attacked more than this subject. There are many things about God that are not understood immediately, I've heard the same for predestination.
I’ve heard it said "people don’t join the Evangelical church because they can’t understand the teaching on the Trinity". This is just one of manystraw man arguments. People do not come to Christ because they don’t understand the numerous doctrines. They refuse to because they cannot admit they are sinful and are in need of help outside themselves. Turning over their control to God is an act of faith.
Instead faith is substituted with thecarnal mind wanting to understand something from strictly a human perspective. If I can't fully understand it I will not believe, but this is only an excuse. As Jesus stated in Jn.3:19-21" Men love darkness rather than light, they don't come to Christ because their deeds will be exposed".
Both Jews and Muslim's emphatically deny that God has a Son, if one is going to find a doctrine offensive to them, I think this would be it. No one preaches the Trinity in salvation but what is preached is that Jesus is the Son of God, he is Lord. We learn about the nature of God and other basic doctrines as we grow in the faith, not before. The simple reason is we need the Holy Spirit to be our teacher in the deeper things of God.
Is the Trinity pagan? The pagan religions had what we call trinities however on closer examination they are not the same in concept or substance. In the same way we would not agree with all the other religions that have a strict monotheistic view of God to be embraced as the same God of the Bible. (Islam, Bahai) The pagan concept was encapsulated with a Father, Mother, giving birth to a Son.
They were three major Gods with many minor god's as well. Their trinity was comprised of three Godsnot one. The Greek triad of Zeus, Athena, and Apollo, the Hindu triad of Brahma, Vishnu, and Shiva the Egyptian triad of Isis, Horus, and Sub bear no resemblance to the Biblical Trinity.
They were all separate not united as the one God and almost unanimously had a mother involved as in a heavenly family. This was really tri-theism, which has more in common with Mormonism than a triune God. Anti Trinitarians make usage of the statues with three heads and saying that is our pagan God. If one is going to discount the Trinity because of some similarities in name only and not in substance. Then maybe they should be looking at their own pagan similarities. One can still be in idolatry, if their one God is not the God of the Bible.
Anti Trinitarians make usage of the statues with three heads and saying that is our pagan God. If one is going to discount the Trinity because of some similarities in name only and not in substance. Then maybe they should be looking at their own pagan similarities. One can still be in idolatry, if their one God is not the God of the Bible.
Where did the pagans get a concept of three? Why not two or four? Where did they get the idea of a God in heaven anyway? What about their belief in a virgin and a son, where did that originate from? Rom.1:20-25 tells us that man from the beginning knew God.", 'and their foolish hearts were darkened" vs.25 "they exchanged the truth for a lie, and worshipped and served the creature rather than the creator." When mankind fell into darkness of sin, they still retained some elements of the truth but distorted its meaning and it became lost.
As Walter Martin wrote "In order to find out if the doctrine of the Trinity is true, we do not look to see if it resembles paganism, but to the bible, to see if God teaches it in his word. Pagans also believe in the concept of God. Does this mean that God must not be true? Pagans sleep. Does that mean sleeping is wrong? We must not dismiss an idea merely because it is held in common with those whom we may not approve." (The New Cults p.49) Lets not try to find all kinds of perversions from the outside that have nothing to do with the Biblical record, lets go to the Scripture to prove our major points.
Alexander Hislop, in his book, "the two Babylon's", traces the history of the practices and traditions of the Roman Catholic Church. He writes on pg. 18, "All these forms have existed from ancient times, while overcome with idolatry, the recognition of the Trinity was universal, proving how deep rooted in the human race was the doctrine on the subject, which comes out so distinctly in Genesis" Robert watts in New Apologetic says "The Pagan triads are "residuary fragments of their lost knowledge of God, not different stages in a process of evolution. But evidence of a moral and spiritual degradation" (Augustus H. Strongs systematic Theology p.352)
While their are Pagan Trinities which can be traced back to Babylon, instead of supporting anti Trinitarian views such as the Watchtower literature promotes, it is evidence for the tri-une God. Lets not try to find all kinds of perversions from the outside that have nothing to do with the Biblical record, lets go to the Scripture to prove our major points
Hislop writes that many pagan religions held to one infinite God the creator. Strict monotheism is found in Islam and a few other religions. Are we now to accept their view because God is called one (singular)?
If we are to reject the concept of the triune God, a unified one, because of the pagan distortions, then we must reject much more than this. The pagan cultures also had a virgin birth and some even had a resurrection, Tammuz died and raised 40 days later. The pagan religions had a priesthood and sacrifices, this too became distorted with human sacrifices for God’s blessings. Some Pagans believed that certain gods became men. They had Biblical symbology such as a dove, the lamb, altars, there are many religions that have distortions of the Bibles account of the flood. Are we now to reject Genesis because of their misrepresentations.
They also practiced tongues- ecstatic babble. All of these are counterfeits and distortions of truth, yet we are told since they have a counterfeit Trinity, we are to reject the Biblical Trinity on the same grounds. If you are going to do that, then you must reject all of it on the basis of it being found in some form in ancient paganism. You then annihilate the doctrine of Christ as the God/man, virgin birth, his sacrifice etc. All these are the proof of what Paul explained of what happened in history in Romans one, that mankind had a true knowledge but refused to worship him and sank into idolatry.
The God of the Bible is unique. He is tri-une, which is neither polytheistic nor is it tri-theistic. God is one in nature and is composed of three distinct eternal persons. They are one in substance with a difference in position. What makes all three the one God is that they share the same nature. This is the simple description of the God of the Bible. There is one choice from the Bibles revelation, if one denies the tri-une God, they are either left with atheism or polytheism.
https://www.nairaland.com/428340/muhammad-versus-jesus-christ/1#5903010

Thanks frosbel its a great article

Frosbel, i want to ask you a kwetion? How has your belief affected your family especially your wife who i believe may have been trinitarian? Do you still fellowship wit your brethern that are trinitarian or not?

This broke my heart just now.

hisblud:
Frosbel, what has really made you to do a u-turn from a Trinitarian to a “monotheistic” believer?

Sorry to be a fuss at the moment but I think the word you mean is "monadic" or "unitarian" not "monotheistic"

Moving on to the more important part of it.

When I came on this forum I had so much respect for frosbel. I would peep into his threads and read them and be ministered to. (In fact there was a time when Goshen360 and frosbel's posts formed part of my daily devotion). The first time frosbel started his anti-trinity war, I was very concerned. I offered to have a phone conversation with him so we can study the bible together - I didn't want the madness of NL posters to muddle up things. He declined and as time went on, I saw how deep he had gone in his errors. I opened a thread to try and point him to the person of Christ and I watched frosbel belittle Christ to a mere man and claim that the Word is not a person but an "it" even after he was clearly shown in the scripture that the Word is a "He". That was when I gave up.

I pray that frosbel comes to the knowledge of Christ because right now I am afraid he is very far from God. In fact I looked up that post that he used in defending trinity then and it was actually copypasted from this site: http://www.letusreason.org/Trin8.htm

I have no problem with copypasting and I know frosbel does it a lot and I also copypaste from time to time. . .but then I think what is more important is do you really know what it is you believe? or are you just repeating another person's mantra?

I think frosbel needs to ask himself this question: "Do you really know Him or do you only know what other people know about Him?"

Lol, didn't anyone notice my bumps? Let me check for the thread, will be back...

@ihedion and anony, really i just dont understand what has gotten to him. But anyway, we all have a choice. Also am just knowing "monadic" belief! Hmm!

Frosbel is dabbling into too many books dat is making him mad and confused instead of focusing on ONE source of truth( the BIBLE)...oga frosbel there are spirits behind books..be careful.

Hisblud never dare touch my posts but avoided it like what i can't describe. But was quick to rejoice when he saw Jn 1:18.

Anony did not disagree with any of my posts which are against trinity but still held unto trinity. I was begging for a refutal.

I have posted the definition of a "subject" so you can tell us how a subject is "equal" to his master, 1Cor 15:27-28. Two contradictory words.

Boomark: Hisblud never dare touch my posts but avoided it like what i can't describe. But was quick to rejoice when he saw Jn 1:18.

Anony did not disagree with any of my posts which are against trinity but still held unto trinity. I was begging for a refutal.

I have posted the definition of a "subject" so you can tell us how a subject is "equal" to his master, 1Cor 15:27-28. Two contradictory words.

granted, i have said already that the above verse have clearly shown us who Christ Jesus is and am ok wit that, if you aint, then let us all go and pray, let the Spirit-part of the Godhead- answer us ko! By the way, have you read frosbel post above, you know its really good.

hisblud: granted, i have said already that the above verse have clearly shown us who Christ Jesus is and am ok wit that, if you aint, then let us all go and pray, let the Spirit-part of the Godhead- answer us ko! By the way, have you read frosbel post above, you know its really good.

After our prayer will the things that are inspired by Holyspirit be changed to support the mystery of trinity?

I will look at it.

appears from a number of recent posts, that one is expected to remain rigidly aligned to all traditional doctrine without any flexibility to reassess one's belief system and make informed decisions based on facts.

This is what the traditional church institution does to people, they are either too scared to challenge it's tenets and creeds or not bothered at all whether true or false.

Learning is a process, not a static one but quite fluid if you ask me.

That was frosbel's trinity article before he started speaking against trinity. I heard he had strong debates and did some personal reading before he came to know what he knew today.

He was not satisfied with only one verse of the bible. Do likewise.

Boomark: That was frosbel's trinity article before he started speaking against trinity. I heard he had strong debates and did some personal reading before he came to know what he knew today.

He was not satisfied with only one verse of the bible. Do likewise.

You know, for all your bragging you have still never solved the problem that Hebrews 1:8-12 posed for your stance. Even when I showed you that your darling New World Translation held what a bunch of other translations held: that the Father ascribed to the Lord Jesus Christ qualities that belong only to the Almighty, all you could do was complain that such a passage could be in the Bible.

It only takes enormous pompousity and the feeling that you are especially privileged to possess some knowledge that the "majority" does not have to become so blind to Truth. There is no portion of the Bible that does not hold the Supreme Deity of the Father, the Word (Who became Son at a point in history) and the Spirit, regardless what you and your cohorts do with the Scriptures. I mean, your favorite translation judges you wrong even. As the Scriptures say, out of your own mouth you will be judged.

Boomark: That was frosbel's trinity article before he started speaking against trinity. I heard he had strong debates and did some personal reading before he came to know what he knew today.

He was not satisfied with only one verse of the bible. Do likewise.

thanks first of all. But com on at least you should have said "you are welcomed" to my post on that thread expressing my gratitude to you especially before requesting me to do likewise! Would you then accept my gratitude?

frosbel: appears from a number of recent posts, that one is expected to remain rigidly aligned to all traditional doctrine without any flexibility to reassess one's belief system and make informed decisions based on facts.

This is what the traditional church institution does to people, they are either too scared to challenge it's tenets and creeds or not bothered at all whether true or false.

Learning is a process, not a static one but quite fluid if you ask me.

hi there, yes but i also asked a kwetion, would you be kind enough to answer? Thanks

Boomark:

After our prayer will the things that are inspired by Holyspirit be changed to support the mystery of trinity?

I will look at it.

nice then but dont forget, the Father in the Godhead will answer you thru the begotten God -Jesus Christ! Amen

Ihedinobi:

You know, for all your bragging you have still never solved the problem that Hebrews 1:8-12 posed for your stance. Even when I showed you that your darling New World Translation held what a bunch of other translations held: that the Father ascribed to the Lord Jesus Christ qualities that belong only to the Almighty, all you could do was complain that such a passage could be in the Bible.

It only takes enormous pompousity and the feeling that you are especially privileged to possess some knowledge that the "majority" does not have to become so blind to Truth. There is no portion of the Bible that does not hold the Supreme Deity of the Father, the Word (Who became Son at a point in history) and the Spirit, regardless what you and your cohorts do with the Scriptures. I mean, your favorite translation judges you wrong even. As the Scriptures say, out of your own mouth you will be judged.

This is interesting. The same is true of passages in Revelation where Jesus Christ is called Alpha & Omega, First and Last etc. I mean one chap (actually one of the more amenable ones) says only God is Alpha and Omega; we show him where Jesus is called Alpha and Omega --- him turn eye!

Interestingly also, I see all kinds of false accusations made against Trinitarians about passages describing Jesus as "Son" or where Jesus calls the Father God etc. As I have pointed out before, Trinitarians accept such passages without any difficulty! Of course Trinitarians accept that Jesus is the Son of God. This is quite different from those who pretend not to see the passages clearly calling Jesus God, or making laughable distinctions between "mighty God" and "almighty God", or jumping from translation to translation etc.



PS @hisblud, you could also check out this older thread https://www.nairaland.com/1077335/trinitarians-ignorant-what-moses-said/2#12665255

Ihedinobi:

You know, for all your bragging you have still never solved the problem that Hebrews 1:8-12 posed for your stance. Even when I showed you that your darling New World Translation held what a bunch of other translations held: that the Father ascribed to the Lord Jesus Christ qualities that belong only to the Almighty, all you could do was complain that such a passage could be in the Bible.

It only takes enormous pompousity and the feeling that you are especially privileged to possess some knowledge that the "majority" does not have to become so blind to Truth. There is no portion of the Bible that does not hold the Supreme Deity of the Father, the Word (Who became Son at a point in history) and the Spirit, regardless what you and your cohorts do with the Scriptures. I mean, your favorite translation judges you wrong even. As the Scriptures say, out of your own mouth you will be judged.

And what about hebrews ....I'll focus on verse 10-12 because verses 8 $ 9 is clear for every one to see that Jesus has a GOD...""That is why God your God anointed you with oil of exultation more than your "PARTNERS" so verses 8 $ 9 says........

Now as regards verses 10-12 were it said the son laid the foundations of the earth and that the heavens are the works of his hand shouldn't be a prop for you to think Jesus is equal with his Father or that he is the Father........Yahweh the almighty performed his creative works through his son...Jesus was an agent of creation of which he is the first of all creative works of Yahweh........colossians 1:15-16 tells us that....Jesus was the beginning of Gods ways,while he(Jesus) was given the great priviledge by his Father to take part in creation after been created by Yahweh.........the only reason why hebrews would confuse u is that you've chosen to believe that Jesus is equal to his Father even when verse 9 says Yahweh is the GOD of Jesus and he(Yahweh) annointed Jesus and exulted him more than his contemporaries..........Jesus still remains the image of the invisible GOD(meaning Yahweh is greater than him and also created Jesus) which is definitly not Jesus.....,Jesus remains a servant of Yahweh 247 and forever....,......Jesus remains the son of God for all eternity..........
_______________________________

If this clear facts aint clear to you then you'll end up being the pompous one who has clearly refused to agree that the only one true GOD is the Father whom Jesus himself worshipped..........1 corinthians 8:6 and ephesians 4:6.........

@enigma thanks will check it out.

Attention: All you that dislike Jesus Christ being called God - read my lips- JESUS CHRIST IS THE BEGOTTEN GOD!shikenan

As I have pointed out before, Trinitarians accept such passages without any difficulty ! Of course Trinitarians accept that Jesus is the Son of God. This is quite different from those who pretend not to see the passages clearly calling Jesus God, or making laughable distinctions between "mighty God" and "almighty God", or jumping from translation to translation etc

GIDI-GBAM!

hisblud: Attention: All you that dislike Jesus Christ being called God - read my lips- JESUS CHRIST IS THE BEGOTTEN GOD!shikenan

We don't dislike Jesus....we love him...he is the head of man(1 corinthians 11:3),and the Lord of the church......if anyone has chosen to hate Jesus just like the muslims and the Jews we have today it would be because of people like you....
_______________________________
we can't sit down and watch you guys insult the Father(Yahweh) by saying his own son whom he created is equal to him.....if you guys had existed amongst even the apostles who were Jews you would have had it tough with them.........
Its good you said Jesus is the only begotten god..since the word ""God"" is your problem...........but as you said he was begotten and that is ok..... don't forget also to add that this Jesus is the image of the one and only true GOD the Father.............thank you......

ijawkid:

And what about hebrews ....I'll focus on verse 10-12 because verses 8 $ 9 is clear for every one to see that Jesus has a GOD...""That is why God your God anointed you with oil of exultation more than your "PARTNERS" so verses 8 $ 9 says........

Now as regards verses 10-12 were it said the son laid the foundations of the earth and that the heavens are the works of his hand shouldn't be a prop for you to think Jesus is equal with his Father or that he is the Father........Yahweh the almighty performed his creative works through his son...Jesus was an agent of creation of which he is the first of all creative works of Yahweh........colossians 1:15-16 tells us that....Jesus was the beginning of Gods ways,while he(Jesus) was given the great priviledge by his Father to take part in creation after been created by Yahweh.........the only reason why hebrews would confuse u is that you've chosen to believe that Jesus is equal to his Father even when verse 9 says Yahweh is the GOD of Jesus and he(Yahweh) annointed Jesus and exulted him more than his contemporaries..........Jesus still remains the image of the invisible GOD(meaning Yahweh is greater than him and also created Jesus) which is definitly not Jesus.....,Jesus remains a servant of Yahweh 247 and forever....,......Jesus remains the son of God for all eternity..........
_______________________________

If this clear facts aint clear to you then you'll end up being the pompous one who has clearly refused to agree that the only one true GOD is the Father whom Jesus himself worshipped..........1 corinthians 8:6 and ephesians 4:6.........

See www.interlinearbible.org/hebrews/1-10.htm for v 10 in the Greek and English. Why does the Father call Jesus "Kyrie"?

For the Hebrews 1 episode with Boomark, navigate to www.nairaland.com/1059664/jesus-god-logical-questions-need/5#12449911

Enigma:

This is interesting. The same is true of passages in Revelation where Jesus Christ is called Alpha & Omega, First and Last etc. I mean one chap (actually one of the more amenable ones) says only God is Alpha and Omega; we show him where Jesus is called Alpha and Omega --- him turn eye!

Interestingly also, I see all kinds of false accusations made against Trinitarians about passages describing Jesus as "Son" or where Jesus calls the Father God etc. As I have pointed out before, Trinitarians accept such passages without any difficulty! Of course Trinitarians accept that Jesus is the Son of God. This is quite different from those who pretend not to see the passages clearly calling Jesus God, or making laughable distinctions between "mighty God" and "almighty God", or jumping from translation to translation etc.



PS @hisblud, you could also check out this older thread https://www.nairaland.com/1077335/trinitarians-ignorant-what-moses-said/2#12665255

True

I insist that if Jesus Christ is the Son of GOD , then he cannot be GOD, this is a simple inference based on normal logic and reason.

God is the Father and he is ONE , he sired a SON who is our Messiah by the Power of the Holy Spirit and through a woman called MARY.

For example, I am not My Son and my Son is not ME, my Son is not equal to me in person but I can grant him equality of rights and privileges by status and heirship. It still stands though that he is inferior to me since I granted him that status and he did not derive it by himself.

The Trinity dogma can never stand the scrutiny of faith, logic or reason.

I leave it at this.

frosbel: I insist that if Jesus Christ is the Son of GOD , then he cannot be GOD, this is a simple inference based on normal logic and reason.
AND

The Trinity dogma can never stand the scrutiny of faith, (logic or reason)

by this-bolded & bracketed- you fail biggie time! In addition, i hope its your personal tots you posted there, not some copypaste as mr anony had earlier said about the one you copied two years and i tot it was your article? Anyway thanks for that article sha

frosbel: I insist that if Jesus Christ is the Son of GOD , then he cannot be GOD, this is a simple inference based on normal logic and reason.

God is the Father and he is ONE , he sired a SON who is our Messiah by the Power of the Holy Spirit and through a woman called MARY.

For example, I am not My Son and my Son is not ME, my Son is not equal to me in person but I can grant him equality of rights and privileges by status and heirship. It still stands though that he is inferior to me since I granted him that status and he did not derive it by himself.

The Trinity dogma can never stand the scrutiny of faith, logic or reason.

I leave it at this.

uncle frosbel.
u have to understand wat God is. The Bible reveals God as the Creator of the universe. He is infinite, eternal, all powerful, all-knowing, personal, righteous, loving, just, and holy. frosbel, We cannot have a right conception of God unless we think of Him as all-powerful, as well as all-wise. He who cannot do what he will and perform all his pleasure cannot be God. As God hath a will to resolve what He deems good, so has He power to execute His will. there is non beside HIM. now our Lord Jesus said He is “Son of God.” This title does not mean Jesus is God’s biological Son. Neither does the term “Son” imply inferiority anymore than a human son is inferior in essence to his father. A son shares his father’s DNA, and although he is different, they are both men. Scholars say that the term “Son of God” in the original languages refers to likeness, or “of the same order.” Jesus meant by it that he has divine essence, or in 21st century terms, the “DNA of God”. Professor Peter Kreeft explains. In John 17, Jesus speaks about the glory he and his Father shared before the world began. But by calling himself the “Son of God” he claims equality with God.When, therefore, the Bible proclaims Jesus as the Son of God, the statement is meant as an assertion of his distinct personal deity. my pillar of study about pre-existence of Jesus lies on isaiah 6:9"For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace." if u dicipher the isaiah prophesy you can easily pick out the names Given to the Father(everlasting Father), the Son(The Prince of Peace) and the Holy Spirit(Wonderful, Counsellor). also another prophesy of our dear prophet..."The voice of one crying in the wilderness: 'Prepare the way of the LORD; make straight in the desert A highway for our God. Every valley shall be exalted and every mountain and hill brought low; the crooked places shall be made straight and the rough places smooth; the glory of the LORD shall be revealed, and all flesh shall see it together; for the mouth of the LORD has spoken...O Zion, you who bring good tidings, get up into the high mountain; O Jerusalem, you who bring good tidings, lift up your voice with strength, lift it up, be not afraid; say to the cities of Judah, 'Behold your God!' Behold, the Lord GOD shall come with a strong hand, and His arm shall rule for Him; behold, His reward is with Him, and His work before Him. He will feed His flock like a shepherd; He will gather the lambs with His arm, and carry them in His bosom, and gently lead those who are with young." (Isaiah 40:3-11).. see, "The LORD of hosts, Him you shall hallow; Let Him be your fear, And let Him be your dread. He will be as a sanctuary, But a stone of stumbling and a rock of offense To both the houses of Israel, As a trap and a snare to the inhabitants of Jerusalem. And many among them shall stumble; They shall fall and be broken, Be snared and taken." (Isaiah 8:13-15). frosbel, who is the first and the last? me? definitly NO. that is Jehovah. see again. Who is the First and the Last? Jehovah God!:
"Thus says the LORD, the King of Israel, and his Redeemer, the LORD of hosts: 'I am the First and I am the Last; besides Me there is no God." (Isaiah 44:6);
"'Listen to Me, O Jacob, and Israel, My called: I am He, I am the First, I am also the Last. let visit the Vision of John. the book of revelation. Jesus identified Himself to John as "the first and the last":

"I was in the Spirit on the Lord's Day, and I heard behind me a loud voice, as of a trumpet, saying, 'I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last,'...Then I turned to see the voice that spoke with me. And having turned I saw seven golden lampstands, and in the midst of the seven lampstands One like the Son of Man, clothed with a garment down to the feet and girded about the chest with a golden band. His head and hair were white like wool, as white as snow, and His eyes like a flame of fire; His feet were like fine brass, as if refined in a furnace, and His voice as the sound of many waters; He had in His right hand seven stars, out of His mouth went a sharp two-edged sword, and His countenance was like the sun shining in its strength. And when I saw Him, I fell at His feet as dead. But He laid His right hand on me, saying to me, 'Do not be afraid; I am the First and the Last. I am He who lives, and was dead, and behold, I am alive forevermore. Amen. And I have the keys of Hades and of Death." (Revelation 1:10-18). see, "Listen to Me, O Jacob, And Israel, My called: I am He ['ego eimi' LXX], I am the First, I am also the Last." (Isaiah 48:12). "'Sing and rejoice, O daughter of Zion! For behold, I am coming and I will dwell in your midst,' says the LORD. 'Many nations shall be joined to the LORD in that day, and they shall become My people. And I will dwell in your midst. Then you will know that the LORD of hosts has sent Me to you.'" (Zechariah 2:10-11).
sure u understand where am geting at. God does not leave that choice for us serve or worship another God. see, "And every creature which is in heaven and on the earth and under the earth and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, I heard saying: 'Blessing and honor and glory and power Be to Him who sits on the throne, And to the Lamb, forever and ever!' Then the four living creatures said, 'Amen!' And the twenty-four elders fell down and worshiped Him who lives forever and ever." (Revelation 5:13-14).
But if Jesus is not God, such worship is unlawful. Only One may lawfully be worshipped:
"I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. You shall have no other gods before Me." (Exodus 20:2-3);

"...for you shall worship no other god, for the LORD, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God." (Exodus 34:13). another shot bro..God revealed His name to Moses: "And God said to Moses, 'I AM WHO I AM.' And He said, 'Thus you shall say to the children of Israel, "I AM has sent me to you."'" (Exodus 3:14).

Jesus told His hearers, "Jesus said to them, 'Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.'" (John 8:58). And His hearers got the message, too; they picked up stones to throw at Him for claiming to be God.
frosbel, “You must make your choice: Either this man was, and is, a full man and full God: or else a madman or something worse … But let us not come up with any patronizing nonsense about His being a lesser essence of God or that the Word is not God Himself. He has not left that open to us and did not intend to. God bless you frosbel!

@sunkoye tell them!!! Thank you oh may the one and only God, Jesus Christ bless and expand your coast.
@haters of Jesus Christ being called God:dei there. We wei believ in Godhead can accomodate sai Jesus be Servant and Son and na still GOD! Becos na bible talk am. You think say na you go kuku convince them muslims, jews and others them to accept Jesus because you call am SON OF GOD? To make am worse for you, no muslim will believe sai Yahweh get SON! So who you wan convince now? Dei there!

Ihedinobi:

You know, for all your bragging you have still never solved the problem that Hebrews 1:8-12 posed for your stance. Even when I showed you that your darling New World Translation held what a bunch of other translations held: that the Father ascribed to the Lord Jesus Christ qualities that belong only to the Almighty, all you could do was complain that such a passage could be in the Bible.

It only takes enormous pompousity and the feeling that you are especially privileged to possess some knowledge that the "majority" does not have to become so blind to Truth. There is no portion of the Bible that does not hold the Supreme Deity of the Father, the Word (Who became Son at a point in history) and the Spirit, regardless what you and your cohorts do with the Scriptures. I mean, your favorite translation judges you wrong even. As the Scriptures say, out of your own mouth you will be judged.

You should learn how to look beyond titles. Trinity belief is based on titles. Assuming i said no problem that Jesus is the alpha and omega, will it make him no more a subject to God his Father? 1Cor 15:27-28, will it make God no longer his God? Rev 1:6, Heb 1:9, Etc. These are the things you need to be considering not titles.

Speaking about titles, do you know that there is an angel of God who is a God? Zechariah 12:8. Is that enough to make him equal to God his God?

Am not bragging nor pompous, its may way of making us learn together. For those that are ready to uphold the truth without hindrance. I still stand on what i told you then. If you understand that there is only one God, the FATHER, 1Cor 8:5-6, you will know it, if not, you wount know.

hisblud: thanks first of all. But com on at least you should have said "you are welcomed" to my post on that thread expressing my gratitude to you especially before requesting me to do likewise! Would you then accept my gratitude?

lailai

How has your belief
affected your family especially
your wife who i believe may have
been trinitarian? Do you still
fellowship wit your brethern that
are trinitarian or not?

the fear of the above and more is what made you to be looking for one thing to hold unto inorder to stay back.

You are happy because of just one verse which you have not fully understood and you want me to accept your gratitude? That's like asking me to accept mediocrity. We all need to learn more.