frosbel:

Breath in this context is translated in the Greek as psuché and life in the English.

For example Jesus said in Matt 16:25

For whoever wants to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for me will find it.

Again psuché used here to describe the gift of life that GOD has given to all men , those who are saved will have this life translated into eternal life while those who die in their sins will be denied this life after judgement by their complete and utter destruction in the lake of fire.

psuché: breath, the soul
Original Word: ψυχή, ῆς, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: psuché
Phonetic Spelling: (psoo-khay')
Short Definition: the soul, life, self
Definition: (a) the vital breath, breath of life, (b) the human soul, (c) the soul as the seat of affections and will, (d) the self, (e) a human person, an individual.

Also , this completely destroys the nonsense about an eternal life experienced in the lake of fire, for Matt 16:25 confirms that both soul and body, that is the body and it's life , can and will be destroyed in the lake of fire.

Mr_Anony:
This does not answer davidlyan's question in any way.

mazaje:

The body is made up of billions of living cells. . .when they die off begin to rot away what do you expect?. . .So soul is the countless living cells or what?

Mr_Anony:
The bolded is what I am willing to contend on this thread. Whether the soul continues forever or eventually dies at a time in the future is beyond the scope of the thread.

I assure you I am not overlooking Genesis 2:7 I am only rejecting your interpretation of it.

The question is does the soul leave his body and exist consciously outside the physical realm? The biblical answer is YES.

This is actually true else Jesus wouldn't have talked about being able to kill the body but not the soul clearly showing that one can still be alive after the other has died.

A concept is not any less valid just because it is held by people you don't respect.

davidylan:

Believe me, i tried to understand your post but i could not do so in the context of Matt 10:28. Was Jesus saying that you cannot kill the breath of God in you that makes you a living soul? What then happens to that breath? Where does it go and how does it get raised up at the resurrection? with what body?

frosbel:

I repeat my response to Anony.

Jesus Christ can destroy both the body and the life of that person in HELL is an allegory of the resurrection to damnation and denial of life for all those who have rejected the gospel of truth, in other words they will be denied life altogether and put to a perpetual death.

frosbel:
I am not sure how many times I have to repeat this to you , but a MAN is a SOUL , he dies and that's it, there is no further consciousness.

I think you are overlooking it based on your wrong interpretation of what a soul is

The Bible answer is actually NO !

No !

Jesus Christ can destroy both the body and the life of that person in HELL is an allegory of the resurrection to damnation and denial of life for all those who have rejected the gospel of truth, in other words they will be denied life altogether and put to a perpetual death.

Stop being childish by bringing respect into it, I reject concepts based on my understanding of scripture. I am not small minded to reject an idea because for example , I have no respect for Anony , let's be mature on this topic.

Mr_Anony:
First of all let me correct something; scroll up and read my posts. I never brought up the term "immortal soul" on this thread, you did. It is a very dubious way to argue when you try to pin a phrase you have created on me and then when I remind you that it was not my creation you immediately claim I am retracting from it. How can I disown something I didn't own in the first place? Please stop it.
If you want to have an argument with me please be sure that you are actually paying attention to what I am saying and countering appropriately. Don't create your own arguments, brand me upon them and then argue against the same argument that you created.
All I have been arguing on this thread is that the soul is distinct from the body and that it survives after physical death. My argument is not concerned with if the soul lives forever or not.


Now if you claim that body + spirit = soul, Isaiah 10:18 which refers to body and soul will be: "body" and "body + spirit". It makes no literary sense.





I'll admit that pneuma can also mean mental disposition - my mistake. However, pneuma also means angel, spirit, ghost, mind, breath, and wind. My problem with you is that you are trying to force a singular meaning of the word pneuma into all contexts including those that are incompatible with the meaning you are trying to propagate.

For instance when the bible talks about evil spirits or the Holy Spirit, it is the same word pneuma that is used. This shows that pneuma is used to describe a personal entity. It bothers me that you try very much to panelbeat scripture to fit into your doctrine e.g what you tried to do with 1Thessalonoans 5:23




The question remains why would anyone ask such a question of where the spirit is going to if it is believed that the spirit does not last after physical death

Also consider Ecclesiates 12:7 For then the dust will return to the earth, and the spirit will return to God who gave it.

It is clear Solomon knew that the spirit left the body and returned to God....also consider when Christ says "Father into thy hands I commit my spirit". Clearly when Solomon says that man is dust, he means the flesh is dust not the spirit.

I hope that with this we at least agree that there is more to man than his body and that a non-physical aspect of man leaves his body when he dies. What I do not agree with is your definition of a man's spirit as "impersonal life force"

Why the spirit is not an impersonal life force:

1. First of all it immediately contradicts your earlier depiction of spirit as mental state/character because it cannot be impersonal and yet be used to define a personality trait/character.

2. The word ruach/pneuma have been used used to describe very personal characteristics such as knowledge (1Corinthians 2:11), and even entire persons like the Holy Spirit and evil spirits.

3. I wonder how you can logically come to the conclusion that the very thing that defines a man's personality without which man is dead matter is itself impersonal.

Mr_Anony:
Why the spirit is not an impersonal life force:

1. First of all it immediately contradicts your earlier depiction of spirit as mental state/character because it cannot be impersonal and yet be used to define a personality trait/character.

Mr_Anony:
3. I wonder how you can logically come to the conclusion that the very thing that defines a man's personality without which man is dead matter is itself impersonal.

Mr_Anony:
Psalm 146:3-4 Put not your trust in princes, nor in the son of man, in whom there is no help. His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish. (KJV)

Psalm 146:3-4 Put not your trust in princes, in a son of man, in whom there is no help. When his breath departs he returns to his earth; on that very day his plans perish. (RSV)

Do you see the context now?

truthislight:

plans perish ke?

So, if one was an architect and was building a structure and he suddenly dies the structure dies or what? Can another person continues with the structure construction

If the structure does not die, what then really dies?

Cant the plans of a man continue after his death?

Mr_Anony:
I really don't know what next to say to you. As it lies, I can't tell if you are missing the point on purpose or if you truly aren't following.

Mr_Anony:
Psalm 146:3-4 Put not your trust in princes, nor in the son of man, in whom there is no help. His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish. (KJV)

Psalm 146:3-4 Put not your trust in princes, in a son of man, in whom there is no help. When his breath departs he returns to his earth; on that very day his plans perish. (RSV)

Do you see the context now?

truthislight:

plans perish ke?

So, if one was an architect and was building a structure and he suddenly dies the structure dies or what? Can another person continues with the structure construction

If the structure does not die, what then really dies?

Cant the plans of a man continue after his death?

Mr_Anony:
I really don't know what next to say to you. As it lies, I can't tell if you are missing the point on purpose or if you truly aren't following.

Mr_Anony:
Psalm 146:3-4 Put not your trust in princes, nor in the son of man, in whom there is no help. His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish. (KJV)

Psalm 146:3-4 Put not your trust in princes, in a son of man, in whom there is no help. When his breath departs he returns to his earth; on that very day his plans perish. (RSV)

Do you see the context now?

truthislight:

plans perish ke?

So, if one was an architect and was building a structure and he suddenly dies the structure dies or what? Can another person continues with the structure construction

If the structure does not die, what then really dies?

Cant the plans of a man continue after his death?

wiegraf:

I don't even think it's a synergy per say, though it could be stated as so. The sum is greater than the parts. You have a car, the engine is responsible for combustion. A computer? The cpu is responsible for processing. A brain? It's responsible for consciousness. Really simple. Anything more complicates matters and seems completely unnecessary.

How did a machine become self conscious? Like the game of life, from simple to complex. Just like all nature, except the primary building blocks, more or else. Given billions of years and a nice great deal of time, machines as complex as us can evolve. The fact we're the only species we know of that has our level of sentience does not indicate some sort of deliberate design, at all. In fact it points in the completely opposite direction. But that's digressing a bit.

I can't remember where I read it but I understand all human tasks, processes etc can be simulated by a turing complete machine. In other words (in theory, we obviously don't have capable machines yet) a computer can reproduce any task a human can. That's obviously not a coincidence. I'll see if I can find my source though.

frosbel:

if a soul transcends mortality , why do we need a resurrection ?

Also can you explain this scripture :

King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
Also in thy skirts is found the blood of the souls of the poor innocents: I have not found it by secret search, but upon all these - Jeremiah 2:34

How can souls have blood if I may ask ?

Enigma: ^^^^ Did Jesus resurrect? Did His "soul" die in the meantime?

What kind of body did He have after resurrection?

davidylan:

Easy. We know that the "souls" used here is a figure of speech. If Christ said in Matthew 10 that man can only kill bodies, wouldnt this verse then be a direct contradiction... stating that men have actually killed souls?

frosbel:

if a soul transcends mortality , why do we need a resurrection ?

Also can you explain this scripture :

King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
Also in thy skirts is found the blood of the souls of the poor innocents: I have not found it by secret search, but upon all these - Jeremiah 2:34

How can souls have blood if I may ask ?

Mr_Anony:

By subjective thoughts I mean how three people can come upon the same information, their brains go through the same process to interpret it and yet these three people have three different meanings of it.

Mr_Anony:
Three different CPUs presented with the same information will result in three instances of the exact same outcome.

frosbel:

if a soul transcends mortality , why do we need a resurrection ?

Also can you explain this scripture :

King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
Also in thy skirts is found the blood of the souls of the poor innocents: I have not found it by secret search, but upon all these - Jeremiah 2:34

How can souls have blood if I may ask ?

truthislight:

hahaha,

that was not the question from frosbel:



^^^

"how can soul have blood" is the question he had asked you.

Please try again.

And the statement of Jesus may actually have a different meaning,

davidylan:

Believe me, i tried to understand your post but i could not do so in the context of Matt 10:28. Was Jesus saying that you cannot kill the breath of God in you that makes you a living soul? What then happens to that breath? Where does it go and how does it get raised up at the resurrection? with what body?

wiegraf:

And you as well, ffs, this is as simple as it gets. YOU HAVE ZERO EVIDENCE FOR YOUR NONSENSE, LOGICAL OR EMPIRICAL. NON. AT ALL. ZILCH. NADA. BABU. So don't go around stating it as fact. Believe in whatever drivel you want to believe in, cows splitting moons in half even (uncle moh style), but calling it fact is insulting the intelligence of those around you. I applaud the fact that you try to keep your nonsense exclusively in threads that deal with fairy tales though, so I shouldn't be complaining much.

greatgenius: i dont care what you think or believe about the things i say.. they either resonate with you or they don't..i am not here to dance and argue to and fro about things that i already know about..likewise i am not under any obligation to provide facts. neither have i asked anyone to believe anything i say.. if it resonates ok.. if not ok..it will not change ultimate reality.

And lately because i have been respecting other peoples freewill to be ignorant.. i was going to ignore your delusional ignorant blabber but i figured why not put you to a simple test to discern your level of awareness.. hopefully you will begin to evaluate your thinking and stop discarding information as nonsensical because of your lack of understanding and ignorance..

how many colors do you see on the screen..most people only will see two colors red and green..but i see four colors..

frosbel:

They only answer when it is convenient to do so, otherwise they bypass difficult scriptural passages !

Logicboy03:


Does the bold make a you genius?


Mtchew

Mr_Anony:
Lol we shall come back to this, It is impossible for both of us to be right while holding two opposing views on the same thing. It is either one of us is wrong and the other right or both of us are wrong.

It seems you haven't read that verse properly. Please notice how it is phrased:

Do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul.......
Obviously this should tell you that the body is one thing and the soul is another.

Also that man can kill one but the other one will remain alive. If by your definition a living body is a living soul, then a dead body should also be a dead soul. There is no way around it.
For Jesus to make the distinction that a dead body is not a dead soul, it should immediately tell you that there is something wrong with your interpretation of Genesis 2:7.

truthislight:

something ignited matter to life.

greatgenius: i dont care what you think or believe about the things i say.. they either resonate with you or they don't..i am not here to dance and argue to and fro about things that i already know about..likewise i am not under any obligation to provide facts. neither have i asked anyone to believe anything i say.. if it resonates ok.. if not ok..it will not change ultimate reality.

And lately because i have been respecting other peoples freewill to be ignorant.. i was going to ignore your delusional ignorant blabber but i figured why not put you to a simple test to discern your level of awareness.. hopefully you will begin to evaluate your thinking and stop discarding information as nonsensical because of your lack of understanding and ignorance..

how many colors do you see on the image below(disregard the black dot)..most people only will see two colors red and green..but i see four colors

wiegraf:

What have I ever done to give you the impression I will indulge in your silly nonsense oh great genius?

If you demand respect, you are obligated to provide evidence for your claims, ie, if you state them as fact. Else, expect the well deserved ridicule that comes your way.

greatgenius: lol what gave you the impression i am here for respect ... you said you want facts and evidence before you believe so just answer the question about the images and we can proceed..how many colors did you see

wiegraf:

So I can insult you as I see fit? Oh goodie!!

Make no mistake, most of the drivel you spew is complete nonsense, but I'll hold off on the insults for now as I do like games. I can see only 2, so?

greatgenius: ok waht if i told you there are four colors in total and that [b]you only see two due to your limited perception [/b]and as such your inability to see the rest.. would you believe me or call it baloney.