Plz name one islamic nation that is peaceful witout any violence, war, internal group conflit etc

tobechi20: Plz name one islamic nation that is peaceful witout any violence, war, internal group conflit etc

Sharia has been a failure right from inception. Ask any muslim to give you an islamic society that foster or fostered human rights in the past or present and they wont be able to.


Yet, there are Islamic scholars that claim that sharia is superior to secularism. The evidence is that secular countries are the most peaceful according to the peace index

tobechi20: Plz name one islamic nation that is peaceful witout any violence, war, internal group conflit etc

Brunei is not only peaceful but very rich!

Bahrain too was very peaceful and rich,until the recently government crack-down on pro-democracy protesters.

Syria was very peaceful and stable until the recent foreign plot to topple the government and incite small pockets of opposition and sending of terrorists to destabilize Syria by turkey,saudi arabia,qatar and NATO countries.

United Arab Emirates is very peaceful.

Oman is very peaceful.

Iran is relatively peaceful if not for the assasinations of its nuclear scientists by western intelligence organizations,and the Jundullah terrorist group sponsored also by western intelligence to attack government forces from time to time in the south-east of iran.

Uzbekistan,Tajikistan,Turkmenistan,Kirgyzstan,Malaysia,Maldives,Kazakhstan,and Qatar are all peaceful countries one can live in without fear or war.

Indonesia, Morocco, Turkey, The Maldives, Qatar, Kuwait and so on. You could have Googled it.

tobechi20: Plz name one islamic nation that is peaceful witout any violence, war, internal group conflit etc

Mention peaceful Christian countries

Saluman:



Sharia has been a failure right from inception. Ask any muslim to give you an islamic society that foster or fostered human rights in the past or present and they wont be able to.


Yet, there are Islamic scholars that claim that sharia is superior to secularism. The evidence is that secular countries are the most peaceful according to the peace index

Mention those secular countries

BetaThings:
Mention those secular countries

Top 5 most peacueful countries in the world;

Iceland
Denmark
New Zealand
Canada
Japan

maclatunji: Indonesia, Morocco, Turkey, The Maldives, Qatar, Kuwait and so on. You could have Googled it.

Indonesia (Sharia laws present in country)
-Discrimination against religious minorities eg Ahmadiya
-Arrest of Alexander Aan fr stating that he is a muslim and probable harsh sentence
-Man gets seven lashes for gambling

Morocco (sharia practising)
- Sharia law permitting rap.ist/kidnapper to escape punishment by marrying victim
-restrictions on christians preaching.

Turkey (Secular islamic country)
-It is of no surprise that one of the best islamic countries has adopted many secular ideals and is close to Europe the home of secularism.


Maldives, Kuwait and Qatar all have their fair share of human rights abuses that the Secular west has moved past.

Rafidi :


Brunei is not only peaceful but very rich!

Bahrain too was very peaceful and rich,until the recently government crack-down on pro-democracy protesters.

Syria was very peaceful and stable until the recent foreign plot to topple the government and incite small pockets of opposition and sending of terrorists to destabilize Syria by turkey,saudi arabia,qatar and NATO countries.

United Arab Emirates is very peaceful.

Oman is very peaceful.

Iran is relatively peaceful if not for the assasinations of its nuclear scientists by western intelligence organizations,and the Jundullah terrorist group sponsored also by western intelligence to attack government forces from time to time in the south-east of iran.

Uzbekistan,Tajikistan,Turkmenistan,Kirgyzstan,Malaysia,Maldives,Kazakhstan,and Qatar are all peaceful countries one can live in without fear or war.

Propaganda!!!


I pity anyone who believes this

Oh dear brothers it is best you ask what peace means, since Saluman does not even understand what peaceful means, how would any individual who is literate mistake upholding the law in a country to mean war/strife/group violence? I dey hail this kind sense oh!!!

Saluman:



Top 5 most peacueful countries in the world;

Iceland
Denmark
New Zealand
Canada
Japan

Peacely story of denmark
A bloody gang war between bikers and
youths of immigrant origin has shattered
Copenhagen's customary calm,
prompting officials into threatening
draconian legislation.
The latest street violence was sparked in
August 2008 when a young Turkish man
was killed, supposedly by a member of
the Hells Angels group.
Since then, the conflict has left dozens
dead or wounded - some innocent
bystanders.
For Ki

"Basically it is the control of the criminal
markets, that means the narcotics
markets, that means the trafficking of
human beings into prostitution and the
money they can earn on these criminal
activities," Kliver says.
But, not everyone agrees that the
violence is part of a turf war over
organised crime. Some see race and the
so-called 'integration problem' as the
chief cause.
Khaled Ramadan, an academic, artist
and journalist, says that second and third
generation immigrants are feeling
frustrated by the Danish establishment.
"... The establishment has a problem.
The media is basically booming the
problem and the street is already in
trouble and frustration.
Frustration [leads to] revolution. It [leads
to] crime. It [leads to] antagonism."
Immigration
There are concerns that the long-
simmering feud will fuel existing anti-
immigrant sentiment in a country
where limiting immigration has become
a cornerstone of government policy.

Read more here

www.aljazeera.com/programmes/general/2010/04/201041275338185250.html

Really very few muslim nations have gang related violence.

Sexual violence seems to be somewhat
of an epidemic in Iceland. The fact of the
matter is that, aside from Greenland,
Iceland holds the record for sex crimes in
the Nordic countries. Sad, kind of scary,
but true nonetheless. Let’s take a look at
some hard facts: an average of ten rapes
get reported per 100,000 inhabitants in
Denmark, Finland and Norway per year.
In Iceland, this number reaches 24. Also,
a notably higher percentage of Icelandic
children experience sexual violence
before the age of 16 compared to the
other Nordic countries.

www.grapevine.is/Features/ReadArticle/Article-sex-crimes-in-iceland

Between 33 to 39% of New Zealand
women experience physical or sexual
violence from an intimate partner in
their lifetime, . . .

https://womensrefuge.org.nz/WR/Domestic-violence/Domestic-violence.htm

In just one year in Canada, 427,000
women over the age of 15 reported they
had been sexually assaulted.7 Since only
about 10% of all sexual assaults are
reported to the police, the actual
number is much higher.8
www.canadianwomen.org/facts-about-violence

Japan, a country of 127 million people,
had just 1,391 homicides in 2005,
compared with 16,692 in the United
States. But overall crime jumped to 2.27
million cases that year, from 1.81 million
in 1996, and violent offenses nearly
doubled to 73,772 cases, according to
the National Police Agency.

www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/05/18/AR2007051801059.html

I really worry for Vedaxcool. All those bad things about secular countries are usually worse in islamic countries and that is why they rank low.


Here is the peace index
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_Peace_Index



You can see that there is no islamic country in the top 10.



Wise people dont argue with evidence.

Lol!

Saluman: I really worry for Vedaxcool. All those bad things about secular countries are usually worse in islamic countries and that is why they rank low.


Here is the peace index
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_Peace_Index

.

Lol!

my point proven, there violence everywhere and that is what your post implies, now go read the OP and some how manage to understand what is at stake, which simply is there is no peaceful country going by both the OP states and your confused understanding of what peace means! Q.E.D

In addition, you might want to check the so called top 10, they have one thing in common, homogeneity, in most single race/ethnicity, and religion, and one thing that is clear, most of their criteria/indicators are quite subjective, plus the issue of unreliable statistics from countries (under reporting of crime) offcourse barring unseen hands of global politics the report would still have other holes to grapple with!

Rankings based on secular values will put more secular countries at the top. It is a no-brainer. Muslim countries have their problems like every nation in the world, secularism is actually one of the problems faced by muslim states. Most muslim states are secular afterall,with elements of the sharia in their constitution. We have not had a true Islamic state for almost a century now.

I think saluman is another logicboy name. The boy no dey tire.

tbaba1234: I think saluman is another logicboy name. The boy no dey tire.

Absolument.

tbaba1234: Rankings based on secular values will put more secular countries at the top. It is a no-brainer. Muslim countries have their problems like every nation in the world, secularism is actually one of the problems faced by muslim states. Most muslim states are secular afterall,with elements of the sharia in their constitution. We have not had a true Islamic state for almost a century now.

1) Rankings based on secular values? Peace, political instability, crime rate are all secular values? lmao....this is good.

Can you please prove how the rankings are based on secular vales?


2) Regarding the bold, isnt that a failure of islam in itself?

vedaxcool: In addition, you might want to check the so called top 10, they have one thing in common, homogeneity, in most single race/ethnicity, and religion, and one thing that is clear, most of their criteria/indicators are quite subjective, plus the issue of unreliable statistics from countries (under reporting of crime) offcourse barring unseen hands of global politics the report would still have other holes to grapple with!

1) Under-reporting of crime in which countries? islamic or secular? Where are we likely to get unreliable statistics?

2) What are the subjective criteria? I would like to know.

vedaxcool: Lol! Lol!

my point proven, there violence everywhere and that is what your post implies, now go read the OP and some how manage to understand what is at stake, which simply is there is no peaceful country going by both the OP states and your confused understanding of what peace means! Q.E.D

Some countries are more violent than others. Seems to me that you want to avoid this fact because your islamic countries are among the most violent.

Saluman:

1) Rankings based on secular values? Peace, political instability, crime rate are all secular values? lmao....this is good.

Can you please prove how the rankings are based on secular vales?


2) Regarding the bold, isnt that a failure of islam in itself?

Logicboy,


1.) A secular organization would give rankings based on secular values and a religious organization based on religious values.. What do i mean by secular values? e.g Whilst muslims do not see much wrong in polygamy, a western secularist would have a different view of this. It is all about perception. Saudi Arabia has a very low crime rate but a secular mind looks at other things within the society that does not fit into his values. You can not separate those perceptions from rankings of this nature.

2.) It is a failure of secularism in muslim states. The fall of the Ottoman empire, subsequent colonization and western domination means many muslim states have adoted secular values that have failed terribly. A look-back at the history of Islamic rule shows long periods of growth and prosperity in these states. It will take gradual deliberate steps to cure the effects.

What we have are muslim dominated countries and not Islamic states. Some are closer than others but there is no Islamic state.

Saluman:

1) Under-reporting of crime in which countries? islamic or secular? Where are we likely to get unreliable statistics?

2) What are the subjective criteria? I would like to know.

1. Both

2. Relations with
neighbouring
countries
Level of
respect for
human rights
(political terror
scale)

Potential for
terrorist acts

Likelihood of
violent
demonstrations

Funding for UN
peacekeeping
missions

Political
instability

And offcourse the issue of homogeneity of a country was clearly overlooked, countries with single race/ethnicity religion will definitely have less strife/conflict which all the top 10 countries in the index have.

Saluman:


Some countries are more violent than others. Seems to me that you want to avoid this fact because your islamic countries are among the most violent.

The point to which you eluded to earlier all country using your poor definition of what peaceful means, are actually non peaceful, trying to change the scope of the thread after you exposed your weak logic does your position no credit, after all muslim countries are most violent because you say so, not because it is so!

Saluman:
Top 5 most peacueful countries in the world;
Iceland
Denmark
New Zealand
Canada
Japan

Saluman:
Indonesia (Sharia laws present in country)
-Discrimination against religious minorities eg Ahmadiya
-Arrest of Alexander Aan fr stating that he is a muslim and probable harsh sentence
-Man gets seven lashes for gambling

Morocco (sharia practising)
- Sharia law permitting rap.ist/kidnapper to escape punishment by marrying victim
-restrictions on christians preaching.

Turkey (Secular islamic country)
-It is of no surprise that one of the best islamic countries has adopted many secular ideals and is close to Europe the home of secularism.
Maldives, Kuwait and Qatar all have their fair share of human rights abuses that the Secular west has moved past.

There is no pint arguing with you. Why?
Japan does not have religious diversity. About 90% are shintoists or Budhists
You take Sharia Law as being automatically violent. A capitalist will never judge communism as a a viable economic system

The assumptions made are very simplistic
Have you read that book - The Revenge of Geography?
-The top ranked countries are invariably nearly isolated islands - Iceland, Japan, New Zealand, Canada has only US as neighbour, Denmark has culturally Scandinavian countries as neighbours and a large part of its borders abut the Ocean
- Take Danes to the Middle East and put Syrians in Denmark, the ranking will change

Have you looked at history of nations?
- Japan has invaded nearly every country within reach. It has attacked America. Now it is peaceful. Why?

Have you looked at cultural/ethnic diversity?
- Tiv fight Jukuns, Hausas fight Beroms, Itsekiris fight Urhobos/Ijaws. Will that happen in Iceland or Japan?

Look at these
http://academic.evergreen.edu/g/grossmaz/interventions.html
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/history/9653497/British-have-invaded-nine-out-of-ten-countries-so-look-out-Luxembourg.html

vedaxcool:

1. Both

2. Relations with
neighbouring
countries
Level of
respect for
human rights
(political terror
scale)

Potential for
terrorist acts

Likelihood of
violent
demonstrations

Funding for UN
peacekeeping
missions

Political
instability

And offcourse the issue of homogeneity of a country was clearly overlooked, countries with single race/ethnicity religion will definitely have less strife/conflict which all the top 10 countries in the index have.

You went to copy and paste things from the Wikipedia site without even thinking about what you copied?

So, you are now arguing that they shouldnt use political instability, terrorism and human rights to judge how peaceful a nation is?



I hope you know that the peace index is one of the best global studies we use today?



After, you will claim that islam is not anti-science or anti-intellectual.


Keep fighting against the evidence your islamic countries are less peaceful by any measure.

BetaThings:



There is no pint arguing with you. Why?
Japan does not have religious diversity. About 90% are shintoists or Budhists
You take Sharia Law as being automatically violent. A capitalist will never judge communism as a a viable economic system

The assumptions made are very simplistic
Have you read that book - The Revenge of Geography?
-The top ranked countries are invariably nearly isolated islands - Iceland, Japan, New Zealand, Canada has only US as neighbour, Denmark has culturally Scandinavian countries as neighbours and a large part of its borders abut the Ocean
- Take Danes to the Middle East and put Syrians in Denmark, the ranking will change

Have you looked at history of nations?
- Japan has invaded nearly every country within reach. It has attacked America. Now it is peaceful. Why?

Have you looked at cultural/ethnic diversity?
- Tiv fight Jukuns, Hausas fight Beroms, Itsekiris fight Urhobos/Ijaws. Will that happen in Iceland or Japan?

Look at these
http://academic.evergreen.edu/g/grossmaz/interventions.html
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/history/9653497/British-have-invaded-nine-out-of-ten-countries-so-look-out-Luxembourg.html

There is no point arguing with me? I put evidence forward to buttress my position and you are taking it personal?


The global peace index is there for all to see. It is one of the best global studies we use today.


The fact remains that these secular countries are far more peaceful than your islamic countries.


List of your fails
-You started bring up archaic history of Japans wars to make your failed point. Sorry this is the present. Your Islamic history is full of Jihad, slave trading and conquest.
-You claim homogeniuty and little religious diversity. Why not take a look at Russia and tell me how peaceful they are despite this two characteristics they possess. Furthermore, there are islamic countries that are mostly Arab and islamic, why arent they peaceful?




Sorry, the fact remains that your islamic countries are not as peaceful as secular ones. Sorry to burst your bubble.

The truth is bitter!

vedaxcool:

The point to which you eluded to earlier all country using your poor definition of what peaceful means, are actually non peaceful, trying to change the scope of the thread after you exposed your weak logic does your position no credit, after all muslim countries are most violent because you say so, not because it is so!

You might want to rephrase that!

Saluman:



You went to copy and paste things from the Wikipedia site without even thinking about what you copied?

So, you are now arguing that they shouldnt use political instability, terrorism and human rights to judge how peaceful a nation is?



I hope you know that the peace index is one of the best global studies we use today?



After, you will claim that islam is not anti-science or anti-intellectual.


Keep fighting against the evidence your islamic countries are less peaceful by any measure.

This might as well be my last reply to you, since you are interested in half quoting my position and then throwing red herrings around . . . After all no one placed a caveat warning us on the usual lack of reason contained in your position, we have shown reasons why the so called Peace index is unreliable it could be best they have, but as we have shown so far it isn't even good enough, just as computers in the 80's were the best they had but simply weren't good enough.: a quick summary:
1. The homogeneity of the top states showed reasons why peace is definitely not a function of secularity but of homogeneity, hence they could be "most" peaceful because they hardly have internal division other countries might have to grapple with.

2. Some Indicators used for the index clearly are subjective, leading to the secularity bias thaba was talking about.

3. The issue of unreliable statistics.

4. Offcourse in addition to thaba bias, we need to know that what they might consider human rights etc to the measurers might be something else to others, so really while this people think it is global we should know it is indeed a secular/western view of how things suppose to be.

5. The fact that all the organizations are western shows clearly they will out to validate the Western ideology as being the best and thumping others.

Q.E.D

And clearly betathins made very salient points which you seem to wary to respond to.