Hello /religion. Now, this thread is not as trollish as my usual fare, or is it?

There's the popular question:

"If a tree falls down in a forest with no ears around, does it make a sound?"

Well, that's probably not exactly how it goes, but you get the point. Without any life around to register the event, does it make a sound? Some would say no

For now our cosmos is all there is, probably all that ever will be, as far as mainstream science is concerned. But there are proponents of a multi-verse, a meta universe that contains our universe along with billions, or potentially more, of other universes. The idea being that these universes are born and die in this great multi-universe, all with their different parameters or constants, all with their variations of physical laws. Heck, it could also be a regress, that is the multi-verse is actually a child of another multi-verse, and so on.

Now, supposing there are other universes out there that cannot be accessed by intelligent life in any way at all. Universes which could not, even indirectly, affect any of the universes that support life, can one really say these universes exists?

For the most part, no. You cannot verify it, it cannot affect you or any other intelligent life in any way, it is a total non entity.

Now here's the thing, this implies that for a universe to exist, there must be a conscious, sentient lifeform around to verify its existence. So existing universe MUST support sentient life (or at least be accessible to universes that support life). So when you wonder, how comes life in this universe? Well, that's inevitable. The universe had to have the parameters to support life* else it wouldn't exist. Simple.

Hmmmm....



*in our case just about. As everything wants us dead, it took billions of years cooking to come up with us, constants setup just about right, etc

Interesting but my mind thinks it's a fallacious argument to affirm that a propbable possibility does not exist because you cannot access it.

advocate666: Interesting but my mind thinks it's a fallacious argument to affirm that a propbable possibility does not exist because you cannot access it.

Maybe. But really, if it cannot be verified in any way, like our good friend dog, you might as well be atheistic to its existence, no?

wiegraf: Hello /religion. Now, this thread is not as trollish as my usual fare, or is it?

There's the popular question:

"If a tree falls down in a forest with no ears around, does it make a sound?"

Well, that's probably not exactly how it goes, but you get the point. Without any life around to register the event, does it make a sound? Some would say no

For now our cosmos is all there is, probably all that ever will be, as far as mainstream science is concerned. But there are proponents of a multi-verse, a meta universe that contains our universe along with billions, or potentially more, of other universes. The idea being that these universes are born and die in this great multi-universe, all with their different parameters or constants, all with their variations of physical laws. Heck, it could also be a regress, that is the multi-verse is actually a child of another multi-verse, and so on.

Now, supposing there are other universes out there that cannot be accessed by intelligent life in any way at all. Universes which could not, even indirectly, affect any of the universes that support life, can one really say these universes exists?

For the most part, no. You cannot verify it, it cannot affect you or any other intelligent life in any way, it is a total non entity.

Now here's the thing, this implies that for a universe to exist, there must be a conscious, sentient lifeform around to verify its existence. So existing universe MUST support sentient life (or at least be accessible to universes that support life). So when you wonder, how comes life in this universe? Well, that's inevitable. The universe had to have the parameters to support life* else it wouldn't exist. Simple.

Hmmmm....



*in our case just about. As everything wants us dead, it took billions of years cooking to come up with us, constants setup just about right, etc

So what were the ingredients. And how come the cooking took billions of years. And are you saying constants created humans and other lifeforms ?

wiegraf:

Maybe. But really, if it cannot be verified in any way, like our good friend dog, you might as well be atheistic to its existence, no?

Except nothing makes the existence of multiverses impossible. Infact, it is more probable than a unique verse seeing that our universe is expanding. What is this expansion? Is it an expansion or a deformation caused by the "gravitational" pull of other verses? What is it "expanding" into?

Uyi Iredia:

So what were the ingredients. And how come the cooking took billions of years. And are you saying constants created humans and other lifeforms ?

Not sure what you're asking of, but most of this is down to chance, and potentially trillions upon trillions of efforts at any given moment. The multi-verse spitting out new universes, or even multi-verses, randomly. Just like how in this universe planets are being formed, some capable of supporting life, others not.

The constants determine the forces, the forces determine the laws of physics. So yes, they determine the nature of a universe.


You do know this is all hypothetical, yes? Just to be sure, don't want anyone assuming I state this as fact

advocate666:

Except nothing makes the existence of multiverses impossible. Infact, it is more probable than a unique verse seeing that our universe is expanding. What is this expansion? Is it an expansion or a deformation caused by the "gravitational" pull of other verses? What is it "expanding" into?

If those universes can affect ours then they exist. We can confirm their existence. The argument is valid only for those that cannot affect us, or any other sentient life, in any way physically.


On a random note, expanding into what is another topic I can't get my head around yet. Apparently, nothing. It's possibly the paradox of infinity getting bigger, heh.

I'm not sure why religious people need god(s) to be amazed, it's plenty crazy as is.

wiegraf:

Not sure what you're asking of, but most of this is down to chance, and potentially trillions upon trillions of efforts at any given moment. The multi-verse spitting out new universes, or even multi-verses, randomly. Just like how in this universe planets are being formed, some capable of supporting life, others not.

The constants determine the forces, the forces determine the laws of physics. So yes, they determine the nature of a universe.


You do know this is all hypothetical, yes? Just to be sure, don't want anyone assuming I state this as fact

The bad news is I think what you are saying is false. The good news is you say its hypothetical.

Uyi Iredia:

The bad news is I think what you are saying is false. The good news is you say its hypothetical.

False in what way? I need to juggle it in my head, need opinions

Still peeping

wiegraf:

False in what way? I need to juggle it in my head, need opinions

For starters there is no proof whatsoever of a multiverse. What makes it even more ludicrous is that in your case it can't possibly be known.

Uyi Iredia:

So what were the ingredients. And how come the cooking took billions of years. And are you saying constants created humans and other lifeforms ?

.,first question WHO WAS THE COOK?

Uyi Iredia:

For starters there is no proof whatsoever of a multiverse. What makes it even more ludicrous is that in your case it can't possibly be known.

The multi-verse could be shown, it's other universes that need not be accessible physically, in any empirical way at all except maybe logically (eg on paper).

This is a 'what if' (for now), so if a multiverse is actually discovered the rest follows, yes?

tobechi20: .,first question WHO WAS THE COOK?

Flying spaghetti or chance.