ayobase: For some sins...yeah, you are forgiven, but u cant excape the punishment.

Like that David committed!

HumbledbYGrace: David lived before Christ that's y he had to pay for his sins

We sin everyday...

Romans 3:23 for all have sinned and fallen shrt of glory of God

But Romans 6:23 for the wages of sin is death ( I.e the case of David) but the gift of God is eternal lif in Christ Jesus our Lord.

This means that all our sins will be forgiven when we ask for it enerstly and seeking God.
If our sins would be our punishment then I doubt if Jesus Christ would have been send down here to die for us

Redmosquito: for every action, a reaction, opposite but not always equal in magnitude, simple

davidylan:

the answer to the above question is very simple. Yes God forgives us of our sins completely. However some sins do have physical consequences.

For example - If you are caught stealing... God can forgive you all well and good but the prosecutor is still going to haul you into jail. If you impregnate your neighbour, you will be forgiven if you ask for it, but the pregnancy is not going to disappear overnight and you will still be the father...

Redmosquito: for every action, a reaction, opposite but not always equal in magnitude, simple

HumbledbYGrace: u still readin ur bible upside down?

uj_sizzle: Sinners who confess their sins and ask for forgiveness often talk about the scriptural passage that says "Old things have passed away and behold all things have become new" and most often than not translate this to having a clean slate n being punishment free.

Now there are some who say for every sin there's a punishment, whether u ask forgiveness or not. There's the case of David and Uriah in the book of Kings and the verse where God says he will avenge.

What's your view on this, does forgiveness of sins free one from every punishment?
Back up with scriptural citations if you can.

Redmosquito: Nwankwo! Wat da hell! See as ur tory long! I have other things to read na! Oya summarize in two lines.

Redmosquito: Nwankwo! Wat da hell! See as ur tory long! I have other things to read na! Oya summarize in two lines.

Redmosquito: Nwankwo! Wat da hell! See as ur tory long! I have other things to read na! Oya summarize in two lines.

musKeeto:
Hehee.. Lol.. You've never met m_nwankwo. He's one of the 'ever-present' sniper regulars we have here ..


@ oga m_nwankwo: happy new year Sir

Deep Sight:

Well let me help you with a summary. If your Father tells you not to jump up, and that if you jump up you will fall down.

Let's say you disobey him and you jump up. That disobedience is sin.

Now haven jumped up, you confess your disobedience to him and ask for forgiveness.

He forgives you.

Will you still fall down or not?

~vicky~:
Basically, the reason Jesus had to die for our sins was so that we could be forgiven and go to be with the Lord. Jesus is God in flesh (John 1:1,14; Col. 2:9) and only God can satisfy the Law requirements of a perfect life and perfect sacrifice that cleanses us of our sins.
All people have sinned against God. But, God is infinitely holy and righteous. He must punish the sinner, the Law breaker. If He didn't, then His law is not law for there is no law that is a law without a punishment. The punishment for breaking the Law is death, separation from God. Therefore, we sinners need a way to escape the righteous judgment of God. Since we are stained by sin and cannot keep the Law of God, then the only one who could do what we cannot is God Himself. That is why Jesus is God in flesh. He is both divine and human. He was made under the Law (Gal. 4:5-6) and He fulfilled it perfectly. Therefore, His sacrifice to God the Father on our behalf is of infinite value and is sufficient to cleanse all people from their sins and undo the offense to God.

lagerwhenindoubt:

You mean we are no under the law.. remind me to say a prayer when i am close to death and i see a grim reaper..

Deep Sight:

Well let me help you with a summary. If your Father tells you not to jump up, and that if you jump up you will fall down.

Let's say you disobey him and you jump up. That disobedience is sin.

Now haven jumped up, you confess your disobedience to him and ask for forgiveness.

He forgives you.

Will you still fall downr not?

Deep Sight:

Well let me help you with a summary. If your Father tells you not to jump up, and that if you jump up you will fall down.

Let's say you disobey him and you jump up. That disobedience is sin.

Now haven jumped up, you confess your disobedience to him and ask for forgiveness.

He forgives you.

Will you still fall down or not?

Lovethywilbedon: No! You won't fall again, but you still have to bear the bruises of your first fall which you loving father can help to heal by applying HidrogenperOxide and Iodine.

Deep Sight:

Lol. Of course you will fall down. The laws of God are not his mere fancies - they are the adamantine laws of creation which could not but be: in this instance, gravity. The iodine you mention still falls within those laws. That is called grace.

But if after you jump up, he comes and catches you mid air so you do not fall down, that is called Divine Intervention - which is a hugely debatable precept when discussing a perfect God.

A human father may do it - on account of his imperfection. Indeed, some human fathers will not do it - on account of wisdom - they will let you fall and learn your own lesson.

A perfect God, hmmmmm, i think, will allow his perfect laws to play. Indeed, being perfect, he would have no other option.

plaetton:

If the laws of creation are immutable, then the concept of forgiveness is just a human fantasy. It makes no sense in the grand scheme of the universe.
If we cannot petition gravity to spare us from falling, how is it possible to ask and expect our sins against god and his universe to be erased and forgiven?.
Since human life is dynamic, how many times can one expect to be forgiven of one's sins in course of one's life?

parisienne: M_Nwankwo. You are deep oh! God bless you for your contributions...do excuse me while I go and read them again.

m_nwankwo:

Hi Plaetton. I do not see why forgiveness cannot be reconciled with the immutable laws of creation. In my earlier post on this thread I clearly stated that sin, a disobedience to the laws of God, imprint itself on the various cloaks that envelops the spirit and that the washing or removal of these imprints is what forgiveness is. Petition in the sense of the laws of God simply means adjusting your entire being to be in sync with the laws, to flow with the will of God and not to oppose it. Sin came into existence as a result of opposition to the will of God and thus can be cleansed by living according to the will of God. Petition to God does not lay in endless confession of sins that is not inwardly felt deep with the spirit, but in genuine recognition of ones failing, followed by adjustment of ones life such that it swings in the will of GOD. Anyone who follows this path will receive the spiritual power to always live according to the will of GOD. When a man is in sync with the will of God, he will be bathed in the power of GOD, the experiencing of the power of GOD transforms the seeker to a new man, such a man is born again. We can dig our own graves by wrong or misapplication of the laws of God but we can also redeem ourselves by obedience to the laws of GOD. You can not sow yam and expect to reap banana but the laws of GOD have the possibility that you can harvest banana if you sow banana. Every stirring of the soul adds new threads to our tapestry of fate which then changes the overall color, sound and radiation of those threads. Imagine every sin to be a black thread and imagine every act that is in accordance with the will of God to be white thread. Imagine a man who is predominantly evil and thus his tapestry of fate is made of mostly black threads. Now this man for some reason is fed up with his evil ways and embarks on the road of reformation. Slowly but surely more white threads are now added such that in time the tapestry of fate becomes predominantly white. But there is even much more to the process. Because the remaining black threads do not receive anymore nourishment from him, they wither and fall off his tapestry of fate. Now, this mans tapestry of fate is now completely white. The adamantine laws of GOD prevents a magical conversion of black threads to white threads but it does allow the black threads to wither as I explained and the addition of white threads.

Yes, there can be divine intervention but this intervention is a fulfillment of the cosmic laws, not a negation of it as is often assumed. A man may have inwardly changed so much that a returning evil reciprocal action will no longer penetrate to him because of lack of homogeneity but is dissipated or mitigated by the pure non-earthly environment that surrounds him. In this case a bullet from an assassin that would have killed him may just glance off his hair or the assassin gun may be jammed. A car accident that would have seen a man get crushed by a trailer may end up in him just helping to drop a stranded passenger. The mitigation of a harmful heavy karma through a harmless activity as I illustrated above is called symbolic redemption. Several servants of GOD in non-physical spheres often guide the repented one to acts of symbolic redemption although the individual may think that the suggestions or thoughts came from himself. Now the same process also happens in good threads of fate that have ripened for us in the workshop of creation. Unbelievable spiritual guidance bring us to circumstances and events where these good fruits drop to our laps and because we cannot consciously survey the origin of the good seeds whose fruits dropped to our laps we call it providence. Grace, providence and forgiveness are merely the outworking of Divine Will. There is nothing arbitrary about them even though they may appear so to many a man because of their inability to survey the entire happening. As the Igbos say, "If a man who is not around when a corpse was buried is asked to exhume the corpse, he will start digging from the location of the knee"

As an aside, I have not forgotten your topic on Consciousness. Hopefully I will muster the urge to make an input. Stay blessed.

plaetton:

Always a great pleasure. Thank you.

Insightful and very true. However, most of us understand the concept of forgiveness from a purely religious point of view, as it is touted and marketed by the popular religions of our day. Infact, it a great marketing tool to win new converts.
It goes somewhat like this:

" Are you a sinner, a robber, a murderer, an adulterer, a liar? No problems. You are ok. Come, god will forgive you of all your sins and inequities."

plaetton:
In this way, the concept of forgiveness becomes a free get-out-of -jail card that is supposed to absolve one of personal responsibility and penance. This idea of forgiveness, itself, is a negation of the concept of justice.

plaetton:
You can see that this twisted but very popular concept of forgiveness becomes a bigger problem for the soul, because, rather than serve as a means towards regeneration, this forgiveness lulls one into a false sense of security,apathy and indolence, thereby inhibiting the ultimate growth of the spirit.

plaetton:
That is why I find it contradictory and dangerous, not only to the social order, but to the spirit as well.

plaetton:

Always a great pleasure. Thank you.

Insightful and very true. However, most of us understand the concept of forgiveness from a purely religious point of view, as it is touted and marketed by the popular religions of our day. Infact, it a great marketing tool to win new converts.
It goes somewhat like this:

" Are you a sinner, a robber, a murderer, an adulterer, a liar? No problems. You are ok. Come, god will forgive you of all your sins and inequities."

In this way, the concept of forgiveness becomes a free get-out-of -jail card that is supposed to absolve one of personal responsibility and penance. This idea of forgiveness, itself, is a negation of the concept of justice.
You can see that this twisted but very popular concept of forgiveness becomes a bigger problem for the soul, because, rather than serve as a means towards regeneration, this forgiveness lulls one into a false sense of security,apathy and indolence, thereby inhibiting the ultimate growth of the spirit.

That is why I find it contradictory and dangerous, not only to the social order, but to the spirit as well.