kandiikane: ^i do not think it is barbaric if it is the person's choice to do it.

@jallowbah, I don't know what marks you mean but I've never seen anyone with marks outside the tattooed area unless if that too was tattooed. If it's henna then that will stain but will come off after a while. It's not permanent.

Regarding the body parts rituals, it is done by outsiders in Gambia. Usually nigerians, people from casamance and I think people from niger or something. I remembered as a kid being warned about the jalang fyelers around the harmattan season(I think). You wrote exactly what I wrote regarding the common practice of 'voodoo'(which is not the right name to call it because they do not practice the things associated with it). The cowrie throwers which are the most common form of spiritualism in Gambia are called curung fyelers which is different to the jalang fyelers(the juju people aka ritualists)

I have seen people with pure scar-marking, and tats as well. All cultural beauty in my eyes But I do wish they would let the kids choose, instead of doing it on them when they are young..

And no, there are gambians who take part in the juju-rituals with bodyparts. Not hunting down albinos or anything like that, but if f.ex a woman have problem getting pregnant, wel...a life for a life, is what they used to say. But again, it is not very wide-spread, at all. Very rare, or at least very, very hidden.

Curun fyelers..never heard of it, which language is that in? In my husbands language, they call the man who practice it marabout. And, they also go to the alkale, the head of the village, since they often have much wisdom in juju, and with Islam. They mix it all together..they say that a marabout is nothing without the holy lyrics.

JallowBah:

I see that you mean that, but WHY is it barbaric? What is it that makes it so barbaric for you?

I think that was very clear in my comment prior to this your reply.

I still don't find it modern and fascinating in many areas. It is just horribly disturbing to the eyes. Generally,the process can be harmful to the health of those practicing it.

all4naija: What about the location? Huh!

the Fulani are nomads so they are not the best example

JallowBah:

I have seen people with pure scar-marking, and tats as well. All cultural beauty in my eyes But I do wish they would let the kids choose, instead of doing it on them when they are young..

And no, there are gambians who take part in the juju-rituals with bodyparts. Not hunting down albinos or anything like that, but if f.ex a woman have problem getting pregnant, wel...a life for a life, is what they used to say. But again, it is not very wide-spread, at all. Very rare, or at least very, very hidden.

Curun fyelers..never heard of it, which language is that in? In my husbands language, they call the man who practice it marabout. And, they also go to the alkale, the head of the village, since they often have much wisdom in juju, and with Islam. They mix it all together..they say that a marabout is nothing without the holy lyrics.

We are talking about young ladies tattooing the gums. It is more popular with young ladies who deem is beautiful and hence do it to look beautiful.

I did not say it isn't practiced in Gambia but like you said it's rare for Gambians to practice such. (Btw, who told you about this pregnacy and killing-a life for a life? Never ever heard of it. When a woman is unable to bear a child they'll will go to a marabout and he or she will tell her to give out saara to people(alms) of certain things I.e. Take 2cups of sugar to a mosque and give a wrapper to an old woman, give her a script in animal skin to tie on her or she'll be given herbs to wash herself.)

Marabouts usually read from cowries, tasabia(prayer beads) or quranic scripts. I've already told you the people who practice the act and where they are from. Usually when the people are kidnapped, they get transported to casamance. Ask your husband.

Curung fyeler is mandinka.

Marabout is the english version derived from arabic meaning religious leader/holy person not fulani. It's just the lingua franca. The fulani's may pronouce it as it would in arabic but I'm sure there's an indigenous name for it in fulani and not just marbut.

You have to understand the different types of beliefs in Africa. Juju is different to what a maroubout does unless it's an actual juju priest who you could go to and ask to kill someone or make someone barren.

Do not throw juju in with every belief that has to do with looking beyond this world.

P.s, alkales are different to marabouts. An alkale does not have much wisdom in 'juju'. An alkale/alkalo(chief) is just the head of a village who resolve disputes, minds the village etc not why a woman cannot give birth. Being an alkale doesn't mean you know the ways of 'juju'


A barren woman may go to the Imam for prayers.
Do research on the meaning of marabout and the mouride so you can learn more about the tradition rather than listen hearsay.

kandiikane:

We are talking about young ladies tattooing the gums. It is more popular with young ladies who deem is beautiful and hence do it to look beautiful.

I did not say it isn't practiced in Gambia but like you said it's rare for Gambians to practice such. (Btw, who told you about this pregnacy and killing-a life for a life? Never ever heard of it. When a woman is unable to bear a child they'll will go to a marabout and he or she will tell her to give out saara to people(alms) of certain things I.e. Take 2cups of sugar to a mosque and give a wrapper to an old woman, give her a script in animal skin to tie on her or she'll be given herbs to wash herself.)

Marabouts usually read from cowries, tasabia(prayer beads) or quranic scripts. I've already told you the people who practice the act and where they are from. Usually when the people are kidnapped, they get transported to casamance. Ask your husband.

Curung fyeler is mandinka.

Marabout is the english version derived from arabic meaning religious leader/holy person not fulani. It's just the lingua franca. The fulani's may pronouce it as it would in arabic but I'm sure there's an indigenous name for it in fulani and not just marbut.

You have to understand the different types of beliefs in Africa. Juju is different to what a maroubout does unless it's an actual juju priest who you could go to and ask to kill someone or make someone barren.

Do not throw juju in with every belief that has to do with looking beyond this world.

P.s, alkales are different to marabouts. An alkale does not have much wisdom in 'juju'. An alkale/alkalo(chief) is just the head of a village who resolve disputes, minds the village etc not why a woman cannot give birth. Being an alkale doesn't mean you know the ways of 'juju'


A barren woman may go to the Imam for prayers.
Do research on the meaning of marabout and the mouride so you can learn more about the tradition rather than listen hearsay.

Since many fulanis, most of them, are muslims, they use arabic words much. Very much, actually.

And yes, the marabouts that my husbands family know, do juju. Why would I sit here and lie about that? I am only talking about the things I know about, not hear-say. And I also know that alkales are not the same as marabout, I did not state they were the same, I said that many of the alkales tend to be marabouts as well, up in the areas my husband grew up in. Maybe I did not write it straight out so you could understand it like that. I can not speak for all of Gambia, or all of West-Africa, I can also speak of what I have come to know.

A woman goes to whomever she wish to go to, and many women will go to extreme lenghts to get help. It is not more than an odd 30years since they dumped kids with down syndrome in the bush to be eaten by hyenas, because they were told the child was demonic. There is bad juju, bad marabouts, and there is good ones as well.

And, back to topic again.

all4naija: I think that was very clear in my comment prior to this your reply.

I still don't find it modern and fascinating in many areas. It is just horribly disturbing to the eyes. Generally,the process can be harmful to the health of those practicing it.

Why do "everything" in the world have to be modern, or fascinating?
Just because you think it is ugly for YOU, does not make it a bad thing.
That is like stating the western world is correct in picturing beauty as a woman who look like a 12 year old boy before puberty is correct for everyone.

And everything in this world can be harmful if done wrong. Even drinking too much water can kill you.

And TerryCarr; I was reading about the beauty of fulanis when I was around 15 years old. To me, they look absolutely beautiful with these marks.

JallowBah:

Why do "everything" in the world have to be modern, or fascinating?
Just because you think it is ugly for YOU, does not make it a bad thing.
That is like stating the western world is correct in picturing beauty as a woman who look like a 12 year old boy before puberty is correct for everyone.

And everything in this world can be harmful if done wrong. Even drinking too much water can kill you.

And TerryCarr; I was reading about the beauty of fulanis when I was around 15 years old. To me, they look absolutely beautiful with these marks.

You seem to be leaving out the magnitude of the effects the practice could have on the society as a whole. Even there is evidence here that points to a girl who died from the it and it's later banned in her community. Let us not keep begging the question when we know the harms this can cause to our community.

Beauty and taste have a lot to play in many societies and cultures. If you do not find them interesting most people do. Give me the benefit of doubt and say it to my wildest imagination you would engage in such thing if you are given the opportunity to do so.Which, I absolutely disagree you would. Nevertheless, I am not hating on it coming from Africa but the practice can only endanger the lives of many young people and it is not aesthetic to look at.

Thank you.

all4naija: You seem to be leaving out the magnitude of the effects the practice could have on the society as a whole. Even there is evidence here that points to a girl who died from the it and it's later banned in her community. Let us not keep begging the question when we know the harms this can cause to our community.

Beauty and taste have a lot to play in many societies and cultures. If you do not find them interesting most people do. Give me the benefit of doubt and say it to my wildest imagination you would engage in such thing if you are given the opportunity to do so.Which, I absolutely disagree you would. Nevertheless, I am not hating on it coming from Africa but the practice can only endanger the lives of many young people and it is not aesthetic to look at.

Thank you.

Where did I say it was not interesting..?

And where is the evidence that it made someone die? There is none..and if so, they probably did not sterilize the needle good/used a dirty needle, or the person was already in the danger-zone of having reactions, and the tattoo it self blew it up.
That can happen to anyone, anywhere, in any country, and that is why I do not think it should be left out of any community.

And no, I personally would not tattoo inside my mouth. I have friends who have, though, but not my cup of tea. But on the chin, and the forehead? Yes, when I am in my 60`s, and finished working, I plan to do so.

JallowBah:

Since many fulanis, most of them, are muslims, they use arabic words much. Very much, actually.

And yes, the marabouts that my husbands family know, do juju. Why would I sit here and lie about that? I am only talking about the things I know about, not hear-say. And I also know that alkales are not the same as marabout, I did not state they were the same, I said that many of the alkales tend to be marabouts as well, up in the areas my husband grew up in. Maybe I did not write it straight out so you could understand it like that. I can not speak for all of Gambia, or all of West-Africa, I can also speak of what I have come to know.

A woman goes to whomever she wish to go to, and many women will go to extreme lenghts to get help. It is not more than an odd 30years since they dumped kids with down syndrome in the bush to be eaten by hyenas, because they were told the child was demonic. There is bad juju, bad marabouts, and there is good ones as well.

And, back to topic again.

Majority of Gambians are muslim but still have their names for marabout. Marabout is the english version.

Ok, now you are just being ignorant. Do not put everything in one pot and call it juju.
Tell me, which area is your husband from?

What has feeding hyenas children got to do with the issue at hand? That's like me randomly saying it's being 30years since lynching blacks was the normal thing to do.
I sense negative undertones in your post even though you say you 'love' the culture.

If it's not hearsay, tell me, have you gone to a marabout yourself? What happened? Did he tell you he wanted the heart of a family member?

Do your research and stop throwing everything else in with juju.

kandiikane:

Majority of Gambians are muslim but still have their names for marabout. Marabout is the english version.

Ok, now you are just being ignorant. Do not put everything in one pot and call it juju.
Tell me, which area is your husband from?

What has feeding hyenas children got to do with the issue at hand? That's like me randomly saying it's being 30years since lynching blacks was the normal thing to do.
I sense negative undertones in your post even though you say you 'love' the culture.

If it's not hearsay, tell me, have you gone to a marabout yourself? What happened? Did he tell you he wanted the heart of a family member?

Do your research and stop throwing everything else in with juju.

And I have only heard them call it marabout. Again, no reason for me to lie. Maybe they have another name for it, but thats what THE PEOPLE I KNOW call it. Get it..?

I am not putting everything in a pot and calling it juju, I am telling you what I have seen down there. Some alkales are marabouts and do juju, some are not. Some marabouts are voodoo-priests, some only stick to "normal herbs and Quran". You need this with a tea-spoon? You really think things are only black and white, or that somethings might be mixed up here and there..?

Wether or not I have gone to a marabout myself, or where my husband is from, has nothing to do with it.

Edit: Lol, I had to call my husband and ask what they call it in fulani. And you are true, they have another name for it as well " Some things are just easier to tell you in english, honey. " I can live with that.

Oh, you going to a marabout and where your husband comes from has everything to do with this because of your claims. Plus, you said you 'what you have seen' so I don't see anything wrong in asking.
Especially, the feeding children to hyenas.


Now, you say some alkales, I thought you said many?

My point is what majority of marabouts practice is not juju.

kandiikane: Oh, you going to a marabout and where your husband comes from has everything to do with this because of your claims. Plus, you said you 'what you have seen' so I don't see anything wrong in asking.
Especially, the feeding children to hyenas.


Now, you say some alkales, I thought you said many?

My point is what majority of marabouts practice is not juju.

No, it does not That kind of things, I prefer to keep to myself.
And the feeding of kids to hyenas..in Norway, they did the same to the wolfs, or the ice, with kids with down-syndrome. They believed it to be demons that attacked them, and made the baby evil, and it had to die. Sad, but true. Religious leaders have, in history and still, given out some bad information. I believe they though they did good, but..

Many, some..it depends what number you are looking at, hon.
The majority of the marabouts I know of, practice juju. But that just might be how they roll down there, who knows.

Aaaand, now...back to topic?

And how many marabouts have you been to in the Gambia? I can bet my left shoe you don't know any therefore, what you wrote is false.

kandiikane: And how many marabouts have you been to in the Gambia? I can bet my left shoe you don't know any therefore, what you wrote is false.

Like I said, I prefer to keep that to myself.

JallowBah:

Where did I say it was not interesting..?

And where is the evidence that it made someone die? There is none..and if so, they probably did not sterilize the needle good/used a dirty needle, or the person was already in the danger-zone of having reactions, and the tattoo it self blew it up.
That can happen to anyone, anywhere, in any country, and that is why I do not think it should be left out of any community.

And no, I personally would not tattoo inside my mouth. I have friends who have, though, but not my cup of tea. But on the chin, and the forehead? Yes, when I am in my 60`s, and finished working, I plan to do so.

First and foremost, you said it in your comment that a young girl died after having a tattoo done in her mouth. In quote "In my husbands small village far in the bush, they stopped the mouth-tattoo after a woman died not long after getting the tattoo" https://www.nairaland.com/1153577/senegal-women-tattoo-gums-improve/2 and time: 11:11pm On Jan 09 - if this is true. Why would you want other people to tattoo their mouths when you cannot do it to yourself? What is the use of subjecting the future generation to something that can endanger their lives?

Lol @ when I am in my 60s and stop working comment. Well, there is nothing wrong seeing your grand kids wondering why grandma is such a designed figure.

On the final note, there is nothing artistic about this mouth and gum tattooing. The only thing I can see is that it poses more harm than good.

JallowBah:

No, it does not That kind of things, I prefer to keep to myself.
And the feeding of kids to hyenas.. in Norway, they did the same to the wolfs, or the ice, with kids with down-syndrome. They believed it to be demons that attacked them, and made the baby evil, and it had to die . Sad, but true. Religious leaders have, in history and still, given out some bad information. I believe they though they did good, but..

Many, some..it depends what number you are looking at, hon.
The majority of the marabouts I know of, practice juju. But that just might be how they roll down there, who knows.

Aaaand, now...back to topic?

The statement in bold was in the past when the Norwegian lack the modern advanced and civilized knowledge not present. You are bringing past history into it. Those are thing reserved for history and the objects associated with it save in the museum as artefacts as references. The question now should be something you and I have to search our heart diligently to be sure our kids do not repeat our forefathers mistake of not not embracing change and accept to acquire knowledge at the inception of human development.

We can't keep moving backward while trying to change for the better, change is to move forward. That by itself proves change is something moving.

all4naija: First and foremost, you said it in your comment that a young girl died after having a tattoo done in her mouth. In quote "In my husbands small village far in the bush, they stopped the mouth-tattoo after a woman died not long after getting the tattoo" https://www.nairaland.com/1153577/senegal-women-tattoo-gums-improve/2 and time: 11:11pm On Jan 09 - if this is true. Why would you want other people to tattoo their mouths when you cannot do it to yourself? What is the use of subjecting the future generation to something that can endanger their lives?

Lol @ when I am in my 60s and stop working comment. Well, there is nothing wrong seeing your grand kids wondering why grandma is such a designed figure.

On the final note, there is nothing artistic about this mouth and gum tattooing. The only thing I can see is that it poses more harm than good.

Yes, because they BELIEVED it to be because of the tattoo. Nothing more. Still no evidence, is it?
And, some people have allergy. Hence, it is not the tattoos fault, but your body reacts to it.
I dont WANT other people to do it, I want other people to d what they want. See the difference?
It`s about preference. It would not look nice on me, but a facial tattoo would. So, I will get it.

My grandkids will be used to seeing their grandmother with much tattoos, cause it is already there, hon. Nice try, though.

all4naija: The statement in bold was in the past when the Norwegian lack the modern advanced and civilized knowledge not present. You are bringing past history into it. Those are thing reserved for history and the objects associated with it save in the museum as artefacts as references. The question now should be something you and I have to search our heart diligently to be sure our kids do not repeat our forefathers mistake of not not embracing change and accept to acquire knowledge at the inception of human development.

We can keep moving backward while changing for the better, that is to move forward. That by itself proves change is moving forward.

When it comes to KILLING other people, then yes, you should move forward, and try to make sure people dont do that again.
But...a facial tattoo, or facial marks? Unless you have allergy from before, and take care of it good, nothing will happen.

JallowBah:

Yes, because they BELIEVED it to be because of the tattoo. Nothing more. Still no evidence, is it?
And, some people have allergy. Hence, it is not the tattoos fault, but your body reacts to it.
I dont WANT other people to do it, I want other people to d what they want. See the difference?
It`s about preference. It would not look nice on me, but a facial tattoo would. So, I will get it.

My grandkids will be used to seeing their grandmother with much tattoos, cause it is already there, hon. Nice try, though.

For a preamble, I am not trying to over-emphasize on the issue. It is absolutely clear there is no argument about that.

This is not a matter of preference, it is a matter of identifying something that can be inimical to the health of our youths. If you are saying they should be given the freedom to make their choice in this regard, there is no choice that is good to choose from. So, it is not about preference nor choice. Indeed, freedom should be the term and it has been played out already. It doesn't mean freedom must be abused in the name of culture. We know quite well the practice and its consequential effects on the society.

All I am asking for is to accept it as something meant for the past. That means we can put fake and safe ones on in cultural displays to show how our forefathers used to live.Nonetheless, it is very irritating to the eyes.

I repeat this is not a case of preference but of recognizing what can be detrimental to the health of our children. I think protecting kids is one of the duty of our parents.

JallowBah:

When it comes to KILLING other people, then yes, you should move forward, and try to make sure people dont do that again.
But...a facial tattoo, or facial marks? Unless you have allergy from before, and take care of it good, nothing will happen.

What have you to say about people perceptions and the horrible look of the practice?

Indeed, this is an example of what has almost died out in Yoruba culture of having facial marks. It is old practice and nobody needs it in the modern world because things change and we must learn to change with them. I can see some Africanism in you.But, we have to move on and leave disgusting and trivial things behind. We have to progress as a people and stop dwelling in things of the past as more important while they are not helping issues.

all4naija: For a preamble, I am not trying to over-emphasize on the issue. It is absolutely clear there is no argument about that.

This is not a matter of preference, it is a matter of identifying something that can be inimical to the health of our youths. If you are saying they should be given the freedom to make their choice in this regard, there is no choice that is good to choose from. So, it is not about preference nor choice. Indeed, freedom should be the term and it has been played out already. It doesn't mean freedom must be abused in the name of culture. We know quite well the practice and its consequential effects on the society.

All I am asking for is to accept it as something meant for the past. That means we can put fake and safe ones on in cultural displays to show how our forefathers used to live.Nonetheless, it is very irritating to the eyes.

I repeat this is not a case of preference but of recognizing what can be detrimental to the health of our children. I think protecting kids is one of the duty of our parents.

So..should we ban all stick-n-poke-tattoos in the world? The machines that does tats as well? Where do you draw the line?
Ass long as people are old enough to take their own choices, they should be able to do what they want to with their body. People are not stupid, 99% know about the risks that comes with it.
I do NOT believe in making choices for other people, and creating laws on how they should or not should do with their own body. There is way too much of that already.
As long as what you do does not harm anyone else than yourself; go ahead.

all4naija: What have you to say about people perceptions and the horrible look of the practice?

Indeed, this is an example of what has almost died out in Yoruba culture of having facial marks. It is old practice and nobody needs it in the modern world because things change and we must learn to change with them. I can see some Africanism in you.But, we have to move on and leave disgusting and trivial things behind. We have to progress as a people and stop dwelling in things of the past as more important while they are not helping issues.

Like I jusat sid; as long as it does no harm to other people, go ahead.

And I find it strange you say it almost died out..in my country there are plenty nigerians (not sure which tribe, though ), and I would say that just around 80% of them have tribal-marks. And they are between 18-40 years of age.

For YOU it is disgusting. "One mans garbage is another mans treasure."

JallowBah:

So..should we ban all stick-n-poke-tattoos in the world? The machines that does tats as well? Where do you draw the line?
Ass long as people are old enough to take their own choices, they should be able to do what they want to with their body. People are not stupid, 99% know about the risks that comes with it.
I do NOT believe in making choices for other people, and creating laws on how they should or not should do with their own body. There is way too much of that already.
As long as what you do does not harm anyone else than yourself; go ahead.



Like I jusat sid; as long as it does no harm to other people, go ahead.

And I find it strange you say it almost died out..in my country there are plenty nigerians (not sure which tribe, though ), and I would say that just around 80% of them have tribal-marks. And they are between 18-40 years of age.

For YOU it is disgusting. "One mans garbage is another mans treasure."

No, I am not saying stick-and-poke tattoos should be done away with. What I am saying is that something of that nature in the mouth should be done away with in our society due to its disturbing effects.

Those Nigerians in your country probably had the facial marks from a very young age. Most likely done against their will. If you ask where they are from in Nigeria a good number of them would come from rural areas, like those still practising this inside mouth tattooing. However, I was particularly talking about the Yoruba people.

If you carried out a poll on if Nigerian youths want facial marks there will be probability almost all will say NO! Facial marks are view as something traditionally rural in Nigeria, I guess.

Maybe you can carry out the poll on this forum to prove my point.

all4naija: No, I am not saying stick-and-poke tattoos should be done away with. What I am saying is that something of that nature in the mouth should be done away with in our society due to its disturbing effects.

Those Nigerians in your country probably had the facial marks from a very young age. Most likely done against their will. If you ask where they are from in Nigeria a good number of them would come from rural areas, like those still practising this inside mouth tattooing. However, I was particularly talking about the Yoruba people.

If you carried out a poll on if Nigerian youths want facial marks there will be probability almost all will say NO! Facial marks are view as something traditionally rural in Nigeria, I guess.

Maybe you can carry out the poll on this forum to prove my point.

I don`t have any interest in doing that. I would guess it would come up to around 50-50 on against and for marks, done when you are old enough to understand f.ex consequences, and the pain it will do.

And what disturbing affects is there? A few percentage MAY react to it, just as with "normal machines" with tattoos on your leg, arm, neck, face. Why ban one, and leave the other one?

And, I wish I could ask, but I really don`t have nerves to go up to people I don`t know and say "Hey you, did your parents force you to get those marks, or did you choose it yourself?" with my oyinbo face straight up in theirs. My mother raised me with more manners than that..

JallowBah:

I don`t have any interest in doing that. I would guess it would come up to around 50-50 on against and for marks, done when you are old enough to understand f.ex consequences, and the pain it will do.

And what disturbing affects is there? A few percentage MAY react to it, just as with "normal machines" with tattoos on your leg, arm, neck, face. Why ban one, and leave the other one?

And, I wish I could ask, but I really don`t have nerves to go up to people I don`t know and say "Hey you, did your parents force you to get those marks, or did you choose it yourself?" with my oyinbo face straight up in theirs. My mother raised me with more manners than that..

I am not too Okay with the 50-50 choice you came up with in your guess work. The reason is that ancient traditions are gradually dying out with the modern people,most especially, with people of African origin. The 50% should be for the elderly who know something about it from the old. So, I disagree we will get equal percentage from the choice. Maybe, 10-80 ,according to my guess.

The disturbing effects are not about the pains alone but the likely discrimination in offices, public gathering, stereotypes, infections, parents taking it as form of youth delinquency,etc.

If you can not ask in person you can post a poll here - as this is mainly Nigeria dominated forum and people at the comfort of their home can easily make their true choices. The poll will be a revealer though.

all4naija: I am not too Okay with the 50-50 choice you came up with in your guess work. The reason is that ancient traditions are gradually dying out with the modern people,most especially, with people of African origin. The 50% should be for the elderly who know something about it from the old. So, I disagree we will get equal percentage from the choice. Maybe, 10-80 ,according to my guess.

The disturbing effects are not about the pains alone but the likely discrimination in offices, public gathering, stereotypes, infections, parents taking it as form of youth delinquency,etc.

If you can not ask in person you can post a poll here - as this is mainly Nigeria dominated forum and people at the comfort of their home can easily make their true choices. The poll will be a revealer though.

Like I said, I don`t have interest in a poll. That is you. So if you have an interest in it, do it

And about the so-called disturbing affects..that also goes with "normal tattoos", or even just colouring your hair or using too much crazy weaves. Do you really feel like people should only go for what "the society" think is accepted, or that people should, just maybe, make up their own minds, and do what makes them feel happy, AND beautiful?

JallowBah:

Like I said, I don`t have interest in a poll. That is you. So if you have an interest in it, do it

And about the so-called disturbing affects..that also goes with "normal tattoos", or even just colouring your hair or using too much crazy weaves. Do you really feel like people should only go for what "the society" think is accepted, or that people should, just maybe, make up their own minds, and do what makes them feel happy, AND beautiful?

Okay. This topic is really played out. Now let'us analyze it this way.

Firstly, We both agree change is eminent in modern society. Therefore things with such irritation as tattoo inside the mouth can not be allowed to gain ground in the name of culture or freedom alone. If there must be reason to allow it(according to freedom of choice)then the consequential effect must be the full responsibility of the users and shouldn't complain of any discrimination or whatsoever, as for the irritating sight, from the society.

Secondly, normally tattoos on skin add some beauty to some people look if done judiciously. On one hand most tattoos are attractive and interesting when not done well not to harm sensitive parts of the body. On the other hand, it is used by some people to cover up scars(as reference to facial markings you are advocating for). Even piercing some parts of the body is risky and usually it is not done it irritating way, excepting for those who are weirdos.

Thirdly, we must agree society plays a lot about who we are. The reason why the advanced society is so much different from the primitive ones lies in this fact. We can not ignore what our society says about us. It is outlandish to have tattoos inside the mouth. If the society deemed drug use to be dangerous then drug users/addicts will be prosecuted for reason it is not acceptable - even when it is not disturbing the peace of the society or just harming itself.

On the final note, good number of the modern youths would rather follow the modern craze than engage in putting tattoo inside the mouth which is alien and disturbing. I think we are both begging the question, when we know if given the choice only the wannabees would indulge such practice to their own detriment.

Thank you.

all4naija: Okay. This topic is really played out. Now let'us analyze it this way.

Firstly, We both agree change is eminent in modern society. Therefore things with such irritation as tattoo inside the mouth can not be allowed to gain ground in the name of culture or freedom alone. If there must be reason to allow it(according to freedom of choice)then the consequential effect must be the full responsibility of the users and shouldn't complain of any discrimination or whatsoever, as for the irritating sight, from the society.

Secondly, normally tattoos on skin add some beauty to some people look if done judiciously. On one hand most tattoos are attractive and interesting when not done well not to harm sensitive parts of the body. On the other hand, it is used by some people to cover up scars(as reference to facial markings you are advocating for). Even piercing some parts of the body is risky and usually it is not done it irritating way, excepting for those who are weirdos.

Thirdly, we must agree society plays a lot about who we are. The reason why the advanced society is so much different from the primitive ones lies in this fact. We can not ignore what our society says about us. It is outlandish to have tattoos inside the mouth. If the society deemed drug use to be dangerous then drug users/addicts will be prosecuted for reason it is not acceptable - even when it is not disturbing the peace of the society or just harming itself.

On the final note, good number of the modern youths would rather follow the modern craze than engage in putting tattoo inside the mouth which is alien and disturbing. I think we are both begging the question, when we know if given the choice only the wannabees would indulge such practice to their own detriment.

Thank you.

Firstly; Change is not always a good thing. And yes, you SHOULD complain about people judging you on your appearance. I don`t judge the naija-boys in the streets here to all be drug-dealers, just because many of them are, and they all dress the same.

Secondly; What do you mean with "weirdos"? For me, it is clear that you do judge people on how they look, putting them in a specific booth. For me, that is a very bad quality, much more bad than facial tattoos, or scars.

Thirdly; Outlandish for YOU, beauty for OTHERS. Like I said; one mans garbage is a another mans treasure. How would the world be if all were the same?
And on drug-talk; look at marihuana. When used occasionally, not from morning til dawn, it has no harm for the people using it. Still, it is illegal in many, many countries. Even using Hemp is illegal in many countries. Why? Politics and money, nothing else.

And, on a final note..what do you mean with "wannabees" ? Again; how would the world be if we were all the same, did the same, looked the same, find the same things interesting, beautiful, etc..? Not good, if you ask me. Going against societies rules is not something new, and does not have to be a bad thing.

all4naija: What have you to say about people perceptions and the horrible look of the practice?

Indeed, this is an example of what has almost died out in Yoruba culture of having facial marks. It is old practice and nobody needs it in the modern world because things change and we must learn to change with them. I can see some Africanism in you.But, we have to move on and leave disgusting and trivial things behind. We have to progress as a people and stop dwelling in things of the past as more important while they are not helping issues.

you can be modern and still have tradition
the Māori keep their culture alive in the modern world
[img]http://1.bp..com/_4DvUdXoHRrs/TOb8cT7AjTI/AAAAAAAAB5A/5C76d6XKp3s/s1600/newzealandman.jpg[/img]

[img]http://www.newswire.co.nz/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/Hemi-MAIN.jpg[/img]


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3BoNmpvkavo

JallowBah:

Firstly; Change is not always a good thing. And yes, you SHOULD complain about people judging you on your appearance. I don`t judge the naija-boys in the streets here to all be drug-dealers, just because many of them are, and they all dress the same.

Secondly; What do you mean with "weirdos"? For me, it is clear that you do judge people on how they look, putting them in a specific booth. For me, that is a very bad quality, much more bad than facial tattoos, or scars.

Thirdly; Outlandish for YOU, beauty for OTHERS. Like I said; one mans garbage is a another mans treasure. How would the world be if all were the same?
And on drug-talk; look at marihuana. When used occasionally, not from morning til dawn, it has no harm for the people using it. Still, it is illegal in many, many countries. Even using Hemp is illegal in many countries. Why? Politics and money, nothing else.

And, on a final note..what do you mean with "wannabees" ? Again; how would the world be if we were all the same, did the same, looked the same, find the same things interesting, beautiful, etc..? Not good, if you ask me. Going against societies rules is not something new, and does not have to be a bad thing.

Seriously, you misunderstood me all along. I never opted for people to be all the same and I know life never worked that way. What I am saying is that it can still be traditional things we reference during culture shows through interraction in fake and healthy practices. Not this kind that look way horrible to do on daily bases. Indeed, we keep begging the question when we know how long this has been in existence yet has not be embraced by the public.

There is need to look at the effects and for those willing to practice them can all do so on by being aware of them, do it on their own volitions and face the consequences. It is not just because of freedom sake we should hide the truth of this matter, which is, it is harmful and disgusting to look at. It might not be disgusting to some but it surely is to many. On that note you advocate for this practice, and I beg to be different. Human beings can not be all the same is not enough excuse to accept this inside mouth and gum tattooing. Would you find somebody walking unclothed on the street Okay? If I may ask. In the past people go unclothed as part of their culture. Let us not overlook some certain things and ignore their consequential effects. If we should continue in your views on this matter it only proves one thing that, it is better some part of human can be allow to wallop in the past while others progress, moving forward by doing away with things that are irrelevant.

As a reminder of your conjectures I have this to say, there were times when men were more living like bush animals. Things of the past are usually refer to as histories. There are reasons why we have museum and cultural shows. And, we should allow them to be just that way and move on.

To conclude it all, with your views you are systematically harming the society unknowingly.

TerryCarr:
you can be modern and still have tradition
the Māori keep their culture alive in the modern world

You just proved me right with some of the images you posted. I am in no way against tradition but ancient things associated with it which are not right for daily uses should be done on special days.

The last post looks like Māori day celebration or movie rehearsal

I don`t judge the naija-boys in the streets here to all be drug-dealers, just because many of them are, and they all dress the same.

Uh huh.

"Just because many of them are"

Wooooow!

all4naija: Seriously, you misunderstood me all along. I never opted for people to be all the same and I know life never worked that way. What I am saying is that it can still be traditional things we reference during culture shows through interraction in fake and healthy practices. Not this kind that look way horrible to do on daily bases. Indeed, we keep begging the question when we know how long this has been in existence yet has not be embraced by the public.

There is need to look at the effects and for those willing to practice them can all do so on by being aware of them, do it on their own volitions and face the consequences. It is not just because of freedom sake we should hide the truth of this matter, which is, it is harmful and disgusting to look at. It might not be disgusting to some but it surely is to many. On that note you advocate for this practice, and I beg to be different. Human beings can not be all the same is not enough excuse to accept this inside mouth and gum tattooing. Would you find somebody walking unclothed on the street Okay? If I may ask. In the past people go unclothed as part of their culture. Let us not overlook some certain things and ignore their consequential effects. If we should continue in your views on this matter it only proves one thing that, it is better some part of human can be allow to wallop in the past while others progress, moving forward by doing away with things that are irrelevant.

As a reminder of your conjectures I have this to say, there were times when men were more living like bush animals. Things of the past are usually refer to as histories. There are reasons why we have museum and cultural shows. And, we should allow them to be just that way and move on.

To conclude it all, with your views you are systematically harming the society unknowingly.

But why is it so wrong to do, just because you find it UGLY? I don`t get that. At all.

And there are people, even in the bush in west-africa, walking around almost naked in the bush. If I was up there, I would join them in on that. Much more comfortable.
Women in the western society walk around almost naked to the clubs, so why not.

...how am I harming the society..?