@logicboy03: you have your work cut out for you with the bold.

by Logicboy03(m): 10:12pm On Jan 06

Sweetnecta: ne. However the religion of Islam is the religion of Adam and all believers.

The burden of proof is upon the accuser, you. I am waiting for your evidence and you will not have any because not only that you post is an epic fail. but you are an empty suit. I want you to respond. mehn.



Open a thread and we will discuss

the floor is yours. please provide direct evidence that Jesus is not a muslim. provide the name of his religion. we already know that Jesus is from the children of Israel. ethnicity is different from religion.

Jesus was by practice Jewish, though not very orthodox in practice. He endorsed the laws laid down according to the Torah and Oral Law (later written down as the Talmud). He was baptized by full immersion in water (reflecting a particular sect of Judaism at the time, but usually only administered to converts). However, in some ways he was at odds with Rabbinic Judaism because he defied the rabbis on several occasions regarding rules.

There is nothing to suggest that he was a Muslim in any sense of the word as it is used today: he did not recite the Shahada, he did not pray 5 times a day toward Mecca, he did not fast during the month of Ramadan, and he did not accept the Quran as the word of God. And you cannot be a Muslim if you do not do any of those things. A Muslim would never turn water into wine for the people at a wedding. Neither Jesus nor Moses were not a Muslim, Mohammad just made that claim only to try to attract supporters from the Christian and Jewish communities who lived in Arabia.

Sweetnecta: the floor is yours. please provide direct evidence that Jesus is not a muslim. provide the name of his religion. we already know that Jesus is from the children of Israel. ethnicity is different from religion.

Why not start by providing concrete evidence that Jesus is a muslim first...If your evidence is sensible enough, a reply would be given.

onetrack: Jesus was by practice Jewish, though not very orthodox in practice. He endorsed the laws laid down according to the Torah and Oral Law (later written down as the Talmud). He was baptized by full immersion in water (reflecting a particular sect of Judaism at the time, but usually only administered to converts). However, in some ways he was at odds with Rabbinic Judaism because he defied the rabbis on several occasions regarding rules.

There is nothing to suggest that he was a Muslim in any sense of the word as it is used today: he did not recite the Shahada, he did not pray 5 times a day toward Mecca, he did not fast during the month of Ramadan, and he did not accept the Quran as the word of God. And you cannot be a Muslim if you do not do any of those things. A Muslim would never turn water into wine for the people at a wedding. Neither Jesus nor Moses were not a Muslim, Mohammad just made that claim only to try to attract supporters from the Christian and Jewish communities who lived in Arabia.

No need for me to say anything.....Onetrack has said it all

@Onetrack and logicboy03: What makes up the religion known as judaism? How is Jesus one? How is Jesus not an orthodox jew in religion? what makes up the brand of judaism that you said Jesus practiced?

when you people make statements, you need to give evidence[s]. I know alot of jews; the many branches of orthodoxy and even the liberal to the ultra reform.

I dont see Jesus being any of them because their prophetic office stopped at Moses and it does not include Jesus.

Moses did not worship like any orthodox. neither did Jesus worship like any orthodox or any other.

Both believed in 1 God without a real son, not begotten son. Both submitted their wills completely to God. Both stood, bowed and prostrated himself to God. Both depended on God and neither is able to do anything except what ordered him.

The Quran says Jesus is a muslim. A messenger of God to the children of Israel and an announcer of a prophet to come whose name is Ahmad.

from the bible Jesus yielded all his will to God. from this biblical verse, we know that he is also a muslim.

is there any jew that practices baptism?

i dont know where onetrack is located. but logicboy03, there is no excuse for you to not ask a jew in london if they practice baptism.


maybe barmitva, the right of coming of age at 13. but no immersing in water. none.

Sweetnecta: @Onetrack and logicboy03: What makes up the religion known as judaism? How is Jesus one? How is Jesus not an orthodox jew in religion? what makes up the brand of judaism that you said Jesus practiced?

when you people make statements, you need to give evidence[s]. I know alot of jews; the many branches of orthodoxy and even the liberal to the ultra reform.

I dont see Jesus being any of them because their prophetic office stopped at Moses and it does not include Jesus.

Moses did not worship like any orthodox. neither did Jesus worship like any orthodox or any other.

Both believed in 1 God without a real son, not begotten son. Both submitted their wills completely to God. Both stood, bowed and prostrated himself to God. Both depended on God and neither is able to do anything except what ordered him.

Jesus quoted Jewish scriptures and taught about them didnt he? Didnt he debate with pharisees?


Islam did not exist before Jesus. There is only one prophet of Islam, others are borrowed.

Jesus is a Muslim. Who is a Muslim? The one who believes that there is only one God, and submits to His Will.

As to turning water into wine, remember that until after Muhammad's immigration from Makka to Madina some of the Prophet's companion used to imbibe alcohol. They stop only after the verse to that effect was revealed.

He (Jesus) also believe in the Prophethood of Muhammad as he had foretold his coming which the Christians misunderstood to be some holy ghost!

Going through both the old and new testament, all that continued to be emphasized about God is the unity of the Creator. Jesus's being critical of the rabbis and vice-vicer was mainly centered on this more than anything else.

aurenflani: Jesus is a Muslim. Who is a Muslim? The one who believes that there is only one God.

As to turning water into wine, remember that until after Muhammad's immigration from Makka to Madina some of the Prophet's companion used to imbibe alcohol. They stop only after the verse to that effect was revealed.

He (Jesus) also believe in the Prophethood of Muhammad as he had foretold his coming which the Christians misunderstood to be some holy ghost!

Going through both the old and new testament, all that continued to be emphasized about God is the unity of the Creator. Jesus's being critical of the rabbis and vice-vicer was mainly centered on this more than anything else.

That is a poor definition of a muslim.

Logicboy03:




That is a poor definition of a muslim.

Noted! Whoever, I have modified my post.

Sweetnecta: @Onetrack and logicboy03: What makes up the religion known as judaism? How is Jesus one? How is Jesus not an orthodox jew in religion? what makes up the brand of judaism that you said Jesus practiced?

when you people make statements, you need to give evidence[s]. I know alot of jews; the many branches of orthodoxy and even the liberal to the ultra reform.

I dont see Jesus being any of them because their prophetic office stopped at Moses and it does not include Jesus.

Moses did not worship like any orthodox. neither did Jesus worship like any orthodox or any other.

Both believed in 1 God without a real son, not begotten son. Both submitted their wills completely to God. Both stood, bowed and prostrated himself to God. Both depended on God and neither is able to do anything except what ordered him.

The sum of Judaism is the Torah and testimony of people they consider prophets, plus, these days, the Talmud. There are different sects within Judaism just as in Islam. Which type of Islam do you practice (Shia, Sunni, Ismaili, Ahmedi)? There are some important differences between the sects in Islam just as in Judaism. Jesus appeared to belong to an ascetic sect, possibly Essenes or Nazarenes, but he identified as Jewish in religious practice (why else would he challenge the Jewish rabbis on what Jewish law stated)?

And how could Moses have been anything BUT orthodox? He IS the lawgiver of the Jews. It's like saying Muhammad was not an orthodox Muslim!

The prophets of Judaism did not stop with Moses; they had many after (David, Solomon, Elijah), and their last prophet was probably Malachi.

Jesus said he was the Messiah promised by Jewish tradition, as such he felt he was perfectly within Jewish religious parameters. Obviously, many other Jews did not agree.

Sweetnecta: The Quran says Jesus is a muslim. A messenger of God to the children of Israel and an announcer of a prophet to come whose name is Ahmad.

You can't use after-the-fact documents to prove that a prediction is going to come true. Jesus never predicted anyone's arrival.

And so the Quran says that Jesus was a muslim. There are many books which says he was not. Remember, I'm an atheist, and I don't place any more trust in the historical accuracy of the Quran than any other book.

aurenflani: Jesus is a Muslim. Who is a Muslim? The one who believes that there is only one God, and submits to His Will.

So if I genuinely believe in one God, and want to do his will, but I genuinely believe that the Quran is not the word of God, but rather Satan, and that God wants me not to believe in the Quran, does this also make me a Muslim? After all, I firmly believe that I am submitting to God's will in rejecting the Quran.

^^^ you cant be a muslim, a term that is completely and fully defined by and in the Quran and at the same time disbelieve in the same Quran that you will use to indicate that you are a muslim. you will going against the road that you are wholeheartedly planting your feet on.

Sweetnecta: The Quran says Jesus is a muslim. A messenger of God to the children of Israel and an announcer of a prophet to come whose name is Ahmad.

We don't care what the Quran says, Jesus was not a Muslim , Period !!

Leave our prophets, messiah and bible alone.

Copy cats

Quran is not after the fact because God is The Fact Owner and He has presented the Quran to the world as the fact library. If the Quran is presented in 60000 trillion years it will not make any difference.

Sweetnecta: Quran is not after the fact because God is The Fact Owner and He has presented the Quran to the world as the fact library. If the Quran is presented in 60000 trillion years it will not make any difference.

Give proof that God 'owns' the Quran and that he presented it to the world.

Sweetnecta: ^^^ you cant be a muslim, a term that is completely and fully defined by and in the Quran and at the same time disbelieve in the same Quran that you will use to indicate that you are a muslim. you will going against the road that you are wholeheartedly planting your feet on.

Jesus and Moses did not believe in the Quran. So they are disqualified from being Muslims, by your own logic.

Checkmate.

Sweetnecta: is there any jew that practices baptism?

i dont know where onetrack is located. but logicboy03, there is no excuse for you to not ask a jew in london if they practice baptism.


maybe barmitva, the right of coming of age at 13. but no immersing in water. none.

Orthodox Jews do a ritual immersion, called a mikvah, for converts to Judaism and in a few other rare rituals.

I am in West Africa but not Nigeria. Very few Jews here, mostly Muslims, a few Christians, and virtually no atheists

What all these I'm seeing. Sweetneckta, before anything, I would like to know the tenets of islam. Help me with that please.

Let help the discussion here by providing a quranic view of what Islam is. The followiing is from a chapter in the Quran called the prophets, verse 28 to 91

"And We verily gave Moses and Aaron the Criterion (of right and wrong) and a light and a Reminder for those who keep from evil. . . . We bestowed aforetime on Abraham his rectitude of conduct, and well were We acquainted with him. . . . And We bestowed upon him Isaac, and Jacob as a grandson. Each of them We made righteous.
And We made them leaders, guiding (men) by Our Command, and We sent them inspiration to do good deeds, to establish regular prayers, and to practise regular charity; and they constantly served Us (and Us only). . . .. Remember) Noah, when he cried (to Us) aforetime: We listened to his (prayer) and delivered him and his family from great distress. . . .
And (remember) Job, when He cried to His Lord, "Truly distress has seized me, but Thou art the Most Merciful of those that are merciful.". . . . And remember Zun-nun(Jonah) when he departed in wrath: He imagined that We had no power over him! But he cried through the depths of darkness, "There is no god but Thou: glory to Thee: I was indeed among the wrong doers". . . . And Zachariah, when he cried unto his Lord: My Lord! Leave me not childless, though Thou art the Best of inheritors. . . . And (remember) her who guarded her chastity: We breathed into her of Our spirit, and We made her and her son a sign for all peoples . . . . LO! THIS, YOUR RELIGION, IS ONE RELIGION, AND I AM YOUR LORD, SO WORSHIP ME. . .'

This my friends is the concept of Islam in Islam.

Mai-suya:
Let help the discussion here by providing a quranic view of what Islam is. The followiing is from a chapter in the Quran called the prophets, verse 28 to 91

"And We verily gave Moses and Aaron the Criterion (of right and wrong) and a light and a Reminder for those who keep from evil. . . . We bestowed aforetime on Abraham his rectitude of conduct, and well were We acquainted with him. . . . And We bestowed upon him Isaac, and Jacob as a grandson. Each of them We made righteous.
And We made them leaders, guiding (men) by Our Command, and We sent them inspiration to do good deeds, to establish regular prayers, and to practise regular charity; and they constantly served Us (and Us only). . . .. Remember) Noah, when he cried (to Us) aforetime: We listened to his (prayer) and delivered him and his family from great distress. . . .
And (remember) Job, when He cried to His Lord, "Truly distress has seized me, but Thou art the Most Merciful of those that are merciful.". . . . And remember Zun-nun(Jonah) when he departed in wrath: He imagined that We had no power over him! But he cried through the depths of darkness, "There is no god but Thou: glory to Thee: I was indeed among the wrong doers". . . . And Zachariah, when he cried unto his Lord: My Lord! Leave me not childless, though Thou art the Best of inheritors. . . . And (remember) her who guarded her chastity: We breathed into her of Our spirit, and We made her and her son a sign for all peoples . . . . LO! THIS, YOUR RELIGION, IS ONE RELIGION, AND I AM YOUR LORD, SO WORSHIP ME. . .'

This my friends is the concept of Islam in Islam.

Are you fine at all? Which came first. The jewish torah or the koran.

frosbel: We don't care what the Quran says, Jesus was not a Muslim , Period !!

Leave our prophets, messiah and bible alone.

Copy cats

Well said...

by frosbel(m): 10:43pm

We don't care what the Quran says, Jesus was not a Muslim , Period !!

neither was he a christian. and he never talked to the wall. so he was not a jew in religion. we know he prostrated his face on the ground, worshiping. thats Islam. you can cry if you want. the fact is the fact. a muslim is one submit to God. And Jesus did that.

Leave our prophets, messiah and bible alone.

show me a single christian prophet and provide evidence of his being a christian.

Copy cats cheesy

?

by onetrack: 10:51pm

Give proof that God 'owns' the Quran and that he presented it to the world.

From the Quran; This Quran is from your Lord. From the Quran: Oh Muhammad [sa], we have sent you as a mercy to mankind [not to the arabs. but all mankind]. your assignment is to google the out the verses.

by onetrack: 10:53pm

Jesus and Moses did not believe in the Quran. So they are disqualified from being Muslims, by your own logic.

the Quran after they have left. it is absurd the way you are thinking. however Abraham did not believe in the torah of Moses because he was already left before it was revealed. If Abraham were to have been alive, he would have believed it. Same is Moses to Injil of Jesus not what John, Mark, Luke and Matthew penned. Jesus would have believed the Quran if he were alive.

Checkmate.

you just lost your queen.

by onetrack: 11:05pm

Orthodox Jews do a ritual immersion, called a mikvah, for converts to Judaism and in a few other rare rituals.

was Jesus a revert? en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mikveh which one of these reasons below did Jesus have a mikvah?

Its main uses nowadays are:

by Jewish women to achieve ritual purity after menstruation or childbirth;
by Jewish men to achieve ritual purity (see details below)
as part of a traditional procedure for conversion to Judaism;
for utensils used for food.

I am in West Africa but not Nigeria. Very few Jews here, mostly Muslims, a few Christians, and virtually no atheists cry

sorry. dont cry. mikvah is similar to islamic ghussul.

by Reyginus(m): 11:07pm
What all these I'm seeing. Sweetneckta, before anything, I would like to know the tenets of islam. Help me with that please.

That God is One Lord and all true prophets [Adam all the way to Jesus [as]] and Muhammad [sa] is the last Messenger. That one prays salah in remembrance of Go, at appointed time, daily. that one gives charity. that one fast. that one make pilgrimage.

that one Belief in God, His Angels, His Books, His Prophets. That One accepts that God creates everything and give them their proportions. That all goods and what happens is by will of God. That all decisions are by Him. And there is Paradise and Hell. And there is a Day of Judgment.

i am still waiting for logicboy03 to provide conclusive evidence for his statement that Jesus is not a muslim by providing that he is something else.

Sweetnecta: i am still waiting for logicboy03 to provide conclusive evidence for his statement that Jesus is not a muslim by providing that he is something else.

What am I supposed to do now? You are delusional. The evidence is there before you. Jesus was a Jew. He quoted Jewish scriptures and he debated Jewish laws with Pharisees.


Why Jesus cant be a muslim
-He was baptized
-He turned water into wine at a wedding. Would Muhammad or any dvout muslim today take wine to a muslim wedding?

Any religion that believes in one God is Islam?
The sango worshippers,the ogun worshippers,the obatala in the Yoruba land all believed in one God but still they are idol worshippers.
In John 16:13,Jesus Christ was talking of the holy spirit.This you can see clearly because it also reads" the spirit of truth that will not talk of himself".
muhammed spoke about himself saying he was a prophet of God.
The truth is that the fake of anything always comes after the original has been released.
If you look intently at the reporting statement of the quran you gave you will discover that it is not written by God in any way.For example , it says when "WE" gave . Is that one God speaking in plural or what.
There signs for you to know if God actually call someone to be His prophet.
It is always with signs and wonders and miracles. God through Moses divided the red sea.
God thriugh Jesus Christ rose Lazarus from the dead after 4 days and other uncountable miracles which could only be performed by the hand of God.
Muhammed did nit show any signs and miracle but was just fighting wars to conqure followers and force them to accept Islam or be killed h.he married a 9 years old girl when he was over 55 years and with 10 wives befor her.
Jesus christ told us that we should not marry more than one wife .If Jesus christ was the one that sent muhammed why wiuld he tell him that people could marry more
.than one wife or why would he same God that called Jesus christ and muhammed give them different laws when He is not a God of confusion.
We the christians are not worshipping the same God with the muslim because our God is not and can never be installed or confined to a particular spot like the kaaba .Our God is omnipotent He is everywhere and we cannot house him .
For you to know if you are serving a living God or idol please ask God in prayer at night before sleeping to reveal to you if christianity is the way of Islam is the way.He is God your creator ask him and He will direct you to the right way

The term" God" is just a mere title. God Himself has name.

Sweetnecta: i am still waiting for logicboy03 to provide conclusive evidence for his statement that Jesus is not a muslim by providing that he is something else.

Why don't you try and prove that Mohammed wasn't a scientologist? Or that Logicboy isn't a muslim? Or that you didn't r@pe and murder a girl in 1990?

Can you give us definitive proof that there is no invisible purple octopus floating above your head? You can't! So why don't you just accept the existence of the octopus and stop arguing?

Sweetnecta: i am still waiting for logicboy03 to provide conclusive evidence for his statement that Jesus is not a muslim by providing that he is something else.

Dude, you're not willing to take my challenge?

Why do some people deliberately decide to be dumb? Mohammed, the sex addict, introduced a religion that people who lived before practised. So dumb!