PAGAN 9JA:


please go home and read the quraan yourself. ive read enough and ive seen enough.


The myth that warfare is only justified in Islam under the condition of self-defense is disproved by the account of the Battle of Badr, in which Muhammad sent his men out to raid caravans, then deliberately provoked a battle with the Meccan army sent out to defend them. The case for aggressive warfare is also supported by the fate of the three Jewish tribes of Medina, who were cleansed because they had rejected Muhammad’s claims of prophethood (and because the Muslims wanted their possessions).

Consider the fate of the Banu Mustaliq, an Arab tribe:

"The Prophet had suddenly attacked Bani Mustaliq without warning while they were heedless and their cattle were being watered at the places of water. Their fighting men were killed and their women and children were taken as captives" (Bukhari 46:717)
Although there are many reliable accounts from the Hadith and Sira that mention the Mustaliq grazing cattle, not one mentions Muhammad making any effort at peacemaking. In this case, Muhammad's men rap.ed the women (with his approval) after slaughtering the men (Sahih Muslim 3371). What does rapi.ng a female captive have to do with self-defense?

In many situations, Muhammad waged war for the purpose of revenge, such as the attack on the Lihyan, in which the people were clearly not prepared for war and saved themselves only by fleeing into the hills (Ibn Ishaq/Hisham 718). Muhammad also attacked the people of Taif as soon as he had the opportunity to avenge their rejection of him (Ibn Ishaq/Hisham 280 & 872).

Also disproving the myth that Muhammad only fought in self-defense is the account of his first attack on the Christians. There was no compelling reason for him to send an army to Muta (in Syria, where they met with disaster at the hands of the Byzantines). Had this been a matter of self-defense, then the enemy would surely have followed the routed army back to Arabia, but this was not the case (Ibn Ishaq/Hisham 791).

Near the end of his life, the prophet of Islam directed military campaigns for the mere purpose of spreading Islamic rule. He knew that some cities would resist and others would not. He left instructions to his people for dealing with each case:

The Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) said: If you come to a township (which has surrendered without a formal war) and stay therein, you have a share (that will be in the form of an award) in (the properties obtained from) it. If a township disobeys Allah and His Messenger (and actually fights against the Muslims) one-fifth of the booty seized therefrom is for Allah and His Apostle and the rest is for you. (Sahih Muslim 4346)
As can be seen, those who were not at war with the Muslims are to be subjugated anyway, and their property seized. The only distinguishing factor is the extent of Muslim entitlement following the victory.

Military campaigns to extend Islamic domination include the raid on Tabuk, which was a second incursion into the Christian territory of Syria, in which Muhammad forced the local populace to pay him tribute after ambushing and killing local civilians to assert his authority (Ibn Ishaq/Hisham 903). Another example would be the “convert or die” mandate given to an Arab tribe, the Banu al-Harith:

Then the apostle sent Khalid bin Walid… to the Banu al-Harith and ordered him to invite them to Islam three days before he attacked them. If they accepted then he was to accept it from them, and if they declined he was to fight them. So Khalid set out and came to them, and sent out riders in all directions inviting the people to Islam, saying, “If you accept Islam you will be safe.” So the men accepted Islam as they were invited. (Ibn Ishaq/Hisham 959)
Obviously self-defense was not a factor in any of these cases (even though some Muslims are prone to embellish the record with imaginary details not found therein). As with the capture of Mecca in 630, these early Muslims had clear military superiority and the target of their aggression was in no position to defend itself.

In fact, the first part of the 9th Sura, the most bellicose chapter of the Qur’an, was revealed shortly after the Muslims had established military dominance in Mecca. Consider one of the more violent verses:

But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practice regular charity, then open the way for them (9:5)
The words, “when the forbidden months are past,” precludes the possibility that this was a matter of self-defense. The Muslims had already been given the divine right to fight during the sacred months, and it is simply implausible that they would have suffered attacks over a four month period without defending themselves. That they were not under attack is consistent with the historical context, in which the Haj period was a traditional time of peace and tolerance throughout Arabia.
Although not under attack from the pagans, Muhammad ordered his men to chase and kill the unbelievers following the Haj. The pagans who agreed to become Muslim (ie. practice the pillars of Islam, zakat and salat) would be allowed to live following their conversion. Verse 9:29 offers a separate rule for Jews and Christians, allowing them to keep their religion as long as they pay protection money to Muslims and acknowledge the inferiority of their faith. Should they resist, then they should be killed.

One of the best documented examples of Muslim aggression during the lifetime of Muhammad is the attack on the peaceful community of Khaybar. This followed the treaty of Hudaibiya between the Muslims and Meccans, which called for a period of peace between the two groups. The treaty was controversial with Muslims, not only because it contradicted Allah’s prior mandate to “drive out” the Meccans with violent force (2:191), but also because Muhammad agreed not to be recognized as a prophet in the document (Muslim 4401).

Muhammad decided that it was prudent to attack the Jews at Khaybar in order to regain the trust of his people and placate their grumbling with military victory and (especially) the stolen wealth that followed. This is embarrassing to modern-day Muslim apologists, who try to justify the siege by imagining that the sleepy farming community, located about 100 miles outside of Medina, posed some sort of necessary threat.

Unfortunately for contemporary apologists, not only is there no supporting evidence that the Muslims were under attack by the Khaybar, there are at least three historical references that flatly contradict any notion of self-defense on the part of Muhammad. The first is a description of the initial attack by Ibn Ishaq/Hisham:

We met the workers of Khaybar coming out in the morning with their spades and baskets. When they saw the apostle and the army they cried, “Muhammad with his force,” and turned tail and fled… The apostle seized the property piece by piece… (Ibn Ishaq/Hisham 757)
The people of Khaybar were not attacking Muhammad. They were farming their land with shovels and buckets, not even knowing that they were supposed to be at war. This is further confirmed in the same text:

When the apostle raided a people he waited until the morning. If he heard a call to prayer he held back; if he did not hear it he attacked. We came to Khaybar by night, and the apostle passed the night there; and when morning came he did not hear the call to prayer, so he rode and we rode with him. (Ibn Ishaq/Hisham 757)
Muhammad attacked only after waiting to see if the people of Khaybar issued a morning call to prayer. This would have no possible relevance had they already been at war with him.

Perhaps the best proof that Muhammad was not acting in self-defense is the fact that his own people did not understand why they were marching to war. His son-in-law, who was in charge of the military expedition, had to ask for justification:

Allah's Messenger called Ali [and said]: “Proceed on and do not look about until Allah grants you victory,” and Ali went a bit and then halted and did not look about and then said in a loud voice: “Allah's Messenger, on what issue should I fight with the people?” Thereupon he (the Prophet) said: ”Fight with them until they bear testimony to the fact that there is no god but Allah and Muhammad is his Messenger…” (Sahih Muslim 5917)
The question Ali posed would have been unnecessary had the Muslims been under attack by the Khaybar or if the answer to the question were obvious. As it is, Muhammad’s reply underscores the ostensible purpose of the campaign, which was to force the Jews into acknowledging the superiority of Islam.

Muhammad’s men easily captured Khaybar and divided up the loot. The prophet of Islam tortured the community’s treasurer to extract information, then had him killed (Ibn Ishaq/Hisham 764). Muhammad then took the man’s widow, Saffiya, as his wife after trading two other captured women to one of his lieutenants (Ibn Ishaq/Hisham 758). The surviving Jews were allowed to stay on their land provided that they gave their Muslim masters an ample share of their crops.

Therefore, the rule of aggression in Islam, from the example set by Muhammad, is that it is proportional to the power held by Muslims, and not the persecution that they are under. The rare verses of peace in the Qur'an were "revealed" in Mecca, when true oppression existed (in some cases). The verses of violence that are revealed later correspond to Muslim military might even as any persecution of Muslims had largely dried up.


[size=16pt]I HAVE FRIENDS FROM MANY OF THE ABOVE ARAB TRIBES, AND THE POOR FELLOWS DONT KNOW THE TRUE HISTORY OF WHAT HAPPENED TO THEIR ANCESTORS! BLINDLY READING THIS EVIL BOOK![/size]

wow

brentkruge:

Its obvious you can't read! this is what I wrote:

brentkruge:
Are you denying the hadith? Ok where in the Quran were you taught ablution, Salah, Zakat,Hajj, Shahadah, sawm (Fast). Show me from the Holy Quran where these were described! tongue


I didn't say STATED! but described! The Hadith fills the missing gaps in the Quran. Eg


Shahadah

The Quran never mentions what you guys are mentioning today as the Shahadah. You got the words from the Hadith


Salah

the Qur’an says that there should be three prayers, and the Hadith demands five. The explanation of the salah is found in the Sunnah, and even then it was never described by Muhammad. Muslims are performing a ritual without Quran say so

Zakat
The calculations for the Zakat are not in the Quran but in the Hadith


Hajj

where in the Quran was it stated that you ought to go round the Kaaba, run helter skelter "like hagar" and stone the devil? The process of the Hajj is in the Hadith

Fast

Does the Quran reveal the accounts and meaning of the fast?



Look here, better read next time so you don't embarrass yourself.

The above goes to show that the Hadith are very important in Islam. And since the Hadith prescribe the death penalty for for conversion FROM islam, the Igbo chief has just stepped into "Hotel California". I wish him luck whenever he attempts PRISON BREAK Part 10

some Hadith are weak Hadith while some are corrupted like the bible...that why there are authentic and reliable Hadiths we muslims should follow that goes with the Quran...

The Quran still remain the untouched book not edited on like the gay bible Queen James version ...maybe you should show me where Jesus call his disciples christians, i am the son of God nor i am God...show me i am waiting and note: i need verses from Jesus speech alone

oops!

ziccoit:

Have you ever thought of how big and voluminous the Noble Quran would be if Allah had spelt out every sentence in words? Allah has commanded us (everybody) to follow Allah and His Prophet. The Quran is a compressed Book of rules, laws and regulations guiding the universe. You can not understand the Quran without recurse to relevant Hadith.

That is Islam for you.

LOL and the Quran itself claims its fully detailed! You just confirmed IT IS NOT. BLASPHEMY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

One day We shall raise from all Peoples a witness against them, from amongst themselves: and We shall bring thee as a witness against these (thy people): and We have sent down to thee the Book explaining all things, a Guide, a Mercy, and Glad Tidings to Muslims. S. 16:89 A. Yusuf Ali

It forgot to explan the important issue like the Salah etc!

Shall I seek other than Allah for judge, when He it is Who hath revealed unto you (this) Scripture, fully explained? Those unto whom We gave the Scripture (aforetime) know that it is revealed from thy Lord in truth. So be not thou (O Muhammad) of the waverers. S. 6:114 Pickthall]



Look lets not derail. The igboman just checked into hotel california

Wadeoye:

Shut up your ignorant evil mouth. South West is majority muslim and there have not been anything like bombing here - the people behing bombing in the north are politicians with even some powerful southerners supporting the cause purposely to divide the north.

In west here, you can also see the speed of progress in terms of physical development, moral values, etc all of which are absent in south east. The earlier you accept islam the better for your children - for me, it is your children that I pity.

I agree with you that in western Nigeria the muslems are peaceful but muslems are not the majority. If i may ask, who is responsible for all the bombings in Islamic countries? Please tell us if all this groups are Nigerians or Christians ......ALQEADA, AL-SHABAB, boko haram, JIHADISTS, TALIBANS, HEZBOLLAH, HAMAS, QUASSAM BRIGADE, JAMBS, ISLAMIC FUNDAMENTALIST, MUJAHIDEEN. I am sure all this groups are from southern Nigeria or south east.
Instead of you to preach for me to accept Islam, you would have made a simple and clear statement, just tell me to be a suicide bomber or a jihadist. AS for my children, they already knew that islam and violence works together and you can never separate violence from islam as far as the law of blasphemy and jihad is no one doctrine in islam. Staying away from islam is the best that can happen to any human and any nation on earth because there is nothing peaceful in religion of peace PISS.

tintingz: some Hadith are weak Hadith while some are corrupted like the bible...that why there are authentic and reliable Hadiths we muslims should follow that goes with the Quran...

The Quran still remain the untouched book not edited like the gay bible Queen James version ...maybe you should show me where Jesus call his disciples christians, i am the son of God nor i am God...show me i am waiting and note: i need verses from Jesus speech alone

How do you know the currupted Hadith when some islamic practices were not from muhammed himself?

Save ya breath, anybody that rubs Islam the wrong way is a Christian abi?.

brentkruge:


How do you know the currupted Hadith when some islamic practices were not from muhammed himself?

Save ya breath, anybody that rubs Islam the wrong way is a Christian abi?.

Create a new thread for your arguments.

Thank you.

He choose a right religion Islam. Islam means total submission 2 d will of Allah. Jesus has said it in old testament. May Allah protect Islam.

Ladies and gentlemen, let us behave with decorum. No offensive comments or you will be sanctioned if I see such.

Thank you.

PAGAN 9JA:



christianity is a religion of man-worship and slavery. so many Igbos have been enslaved , tortured and sent to foreign lands, never to return, because of this vile religion that worships man-Gods. christianity is a religion of darkness and backwardness.

Hausas are not into slavery but has over ten million alamajiris. So is alamajiri a way of life or an hausa muslem tradition? How many alamajiris does the IGBOS have? One of the significant characteristics of Religion of Piss, is that it has no regard for peoples freedom. You and i knew that if an Emir converts to Christianity today, the penalty is death. Tell us little about how usman danfodio forced islam on northerners. Do you force a good product on consumers. Muhammed forced islam on ARABS too.

brentkruge:


How do you know the currupted Hadith when some islamic practices were not from muhammed himself?

Save ya breath, anybody that rubs Islam the wrong way is a Christian abi?.

if you are in Nigeria you must know that Islam and Christianity are the two religion mostly practice by the citizens...so i dont know what you believe in... a pagan or an atheist the monkey believers?

Like have said there are aunthetic and reliable Hadith we muslim should follow

ignis: This is not news. Do you know how many people in the
North who convert to Christianity everyday? Do you
know how many Muslims and Christians who convert to
Hindu in Europe everyday? A lot of people convert to
whatever they like everyday. We encourage it. It would
have been news if the Igbos kill him or attack him
because he converted to Islam. In fact we should give
the Igbos credit for tolarance. If a Muslim Chief convert
to Christianity in Hausa/Fulani land, just imagine what
will happen?

God bless u,u hit d point.

Unimke_Ak:

And muslims love it when someones converts from islam to christianity.
Atleast nobody (his kinsmen) are after his life for converting to islam. If it where the other way, he would have been dead or on the run for hIs life by now.
I tink u guys dnt get it, the freedom, the freewill, love, forgiveness in christianity, knowing that its a personal race will always make christianity stand out.

Yes! i said it, they always feel unhappy wen someone convert to islam.sory once again.

confusion247:
Here is not an islamic nation or religion where freedom of speech is not allowed. People are free to air their views is left for you to term it offensive or criticism. In Christianity, you have freedom to talk and air your opinion. Only GOD is allowed to judge. In islam you are restricted to say or condemn the religion of peace piss. why?

would you like it if i insult your parents? Freedom of speech hun

fkaz:
Thus it mean Igbo people known about Islam before Christianity?

i think converting is called reverting in Islam.

Praise be to ALLAH!!!

Revolva: As for me I see nothing wrong in his conversion ...he has seen that christainity is a greedy religion ..despite I was born a christian .but he has observed it and switched to something else he thinks he sees the light

You're not born as christian,rather you're born a greedy man/woman.

kbsheshe: Praise be to ALLAH!!!

you can say that again

COOLDUN:

How can you write about a chief without mentioning his autonomous community?

true that.

confusion247:
Hausas are not into slavery but has over ten million alamajiris. So is alamajiri a way of life or an hausa muslem tradition? How many alamajiris does the IGBOS have? One of the significant characteristics of Religion of Piss, is that it has no regard for peoples freedom. You and i knew that if an Emir converts to Christianity today, the penalty is death. Tell us little about how usman danfodio forced islam on northerners. Do you force a good product on consumers. Muhammed forced islam on ARABS too.

I am not a muslim Hausa, so what you are talking doesnt make sense to me.

did we Maguzawa force Hausa religion on anyone The Gods forced it on us!

brentkruge:

Look here, better read next time so you don't embarrass yourself.

The above goes to show that the Hadith are very important in Islam.And since the Hadith prescribe the death penalty for for conversion FROM islam, the Igbo chief has just stepped into "Hotel California". I wish him luck whenever he attempts PRISON BREAK Part 10 shocked grin grin grin

I would be very happy to "embarrass" myself over and over again just to educate you a bit on this issue.

Indeed, Hadiths are very important in Islam, no muslim would dispute that, because it contains the sayings and deeds of the prophets Muhammed (S.A.W) which muslims are enjoined to follow. However not all hadiths are considered credible. Hadith describes in more details things Allah(SWT) enjoined us to do as examplified by prophet Muhammad (SAW) such as like Ablution, salat, zakat, hajj etc. And the fact that this is so, does not in anyway make the Quran less credible. Allah(SWT) sent down revelations to all His prophets, and still enjoined their followers to live by their prophet's example. No prophet mentioned in the Bible is an exception. All prophets communicate with God on a much higher realm and therefore understands how to better serve God or implement step-by-step what God has ordained them and their followers to do.

Hadiths are written by muslim scholars recounting accounts from people who were eye or ear witnesses to the sayings and deeds of the prophet Muhammad (SAW) during his lifetime. At the time when Hadiths were finally compiled, they underwent intense scrutiny, and were separated and classified into 4 groups.

1. Sahih (Genuine): this name is given to a faultless hadith, in which there is no weakness either in regard to the chain of transmission or in regard to the text, and in which there is no contradiction of any kind of any of the established beliefs of Islam.

2. Hasan(Fair): this hadith is similar to Sahih hadith only some of its narrators might have to be found to have weaker or defective memory as compared to the narrator of Sahih hadith.

3. Da'if(weak): this is a tradition, in respect of which some serious doubts can be raised. These doubts might be in respect to its content or the text, or because one or more of its transmitters are considered unreliable, hence muslims are not binded to follow it.

I do understand that Xtains protestants excluded 7 books of the Roman Catholic bible from their Bible, because they(protestants)regard them as Apocrypha (of weak, doubtful, spurious origin), hence they dont feel obligated to follow them. Same can be said of Majority of Muslims about da'if hadiths.


4. Maudu (forged): this is a totally forged hadith.





The hadith you kept quoting as saying there's a death penalty for conversion from Islam is a Da'if(weak) hadith, therefore it is not given credence by majority of Muslims. because the Holy Quran (chapter 2:256) states that there's no compulsion in religion.

Quran (chapter 2:256):
There shall be no compulsion in [acceptance of] the religion. The right course has become clear from the wrong. So whoever disbelieves in Taghut and believes in Allah has grasped the most trustworthy handhold with no break in it. And Allah is Hearing and Knowing.


I like to reiterate that I sincerely dont mind "embarrassing" myself again to answer your questions, provided you keep your temper down and avoid the name callings. I am sure there are objective readers who would be glad to learn from what we both have to say.

omo alaro:

Is Moses a Christian or Igbo name?

It's tym 2 tek ur drugs

May Allah continue 2 guide us to d stray path. Ameen

Islam is the Only religion in Nigeria that was not advertised on TV or Radio yet people keep converting and publicising it. Can somebody tell me why? I watched a local American TV internet upload where a man said all he knew about Islam was from CNN yet he joined the 20,000 yealy convertees in the US

Oboy c hw dis matter dey pepper sum mumu idiots...correct xtians dnt boda bout sumtn lyk diz...
Ah d tin swt me die!! C hw dem dey abuse d man coz him don convert 2 Islam....

Maple:


I would be very happy to "embarass" myself over and over again just to educate you a bit on this issue.

Indeed, Hadiths are very important in Islam, no muslim would dispute that, because it contains the sayings and deeds of the prophets Muhammed (S.A.W) which muslims are enjoined to follow. However not all hadiths are considered credible. Hadith describes in more details things Allah(SWT) enjoined us to do as examplified by prophet Muhammad (SAW) such as like Ablution, salat, zakat, hajj etc. And the fact that this is so, does not in anyway make the Quran less credible. Allah(SWT) sent down revelations to all His prophets, and still enjoined their followers to live by their prophet's example. No prophet mentioned in the Bible is an exception. All prophets communicate with God on a much higher realm and therefore understands how to better serve God or implement step-by-step what God has ordained them and their followers to do.

Hadiths are written by muslim scholars recounting accounts from people who were eye or ear witnesses to the sayings and deeds of the prophet Muhammad (SAW) during his lifetime. At the time when Hadiths were finally compiled, they underwent intense scrutiny, and were separated and classified into 4 groups.

1. Sahih (Genuine): this name is given to a faultless hadith, in which there is no weakness either in regard to the chain of transmission or in regard to the text, and in which there is no contradiction of any kind of any of the established beliefs of Islam.

2. Hasan(Fair: this hadith is similar to Sahih hadith only some of its narrators might have to be found to have weaker or defective memory as compared to the narrator of Sahih hadith.

3. Da'if(weak): this is a tradition, in respect of which some serious doubts can be raised. These doubts might be in respect to its content or the text, or because one or more of its transmitters are considered unreliable, hence muslims are not binded to follow it.

I do understand that Xtains protestants excluded 7 books of the Roman Catholic bible from their Bible, because they(protestants)regard them as Apocrypha (of weak, doubtful, spurious origin), hence they are not ordained to follow it. Same can be said of Majority of Muslims about da'if hadiths.


4. Maudu (forged): this is a totally forged hadith.





The hadith you kept quoting as saying there's a death penalty for conversion from Islam is a Da'if(weak) hadith, therefore it is not given credence by majority of Muslims. because the Holy Quran (chapter 2:256) states that there's no compulsion in religion.

Quran (chapter 2:256):
There shall be no compulsion in [acceptance of] the religion. The right course has become clear from the wrong. So whoever disbelieves in Taghut and believes in Allah has grasped the most trustworthy handhold with no break in it. And Allah is Hearing and Knowing.


I like to reiterate that I sincerely dont mind "embarrassing" myself again to answer your questions, provided you keep your temper down and avoid the name callings. I am sure there are objective readers who would be glad to learn from what we both have to say.

it left for the ignorant people to knowledge themselves about Islam...

Thank you...May Allah s.w.t increase you in Knowledge.. amin

Coolboi05: Oboy c hw dis matter dey pepper sum mumu idiots...correct xtians dnt boda bout sumtn lyk diz...
Ah d tin swt me die!! C hw dem dey abuse d man coz him don convert 2 Islam....

dont mind them,religion is a matter of choice, he choose to be a muslim

When one Nigerian converts to Islam, it becomes the the a breaking news, yet there is no particular day that a muslim don't convert to xtianity.

There must be something special about Islam and why the whole world wants to know everything a muslim does. Let us restrain ourselves from hash words, abuses and invention of falsehood. Note we shall account for all our deeds. Congrats to the Muslim world.

confusion247:
Hausas are not into slavery but has over ten million alamajiris. So is alamajiri a way of life or an hausa muslem tradition? How many alamajiris does the IGBOS have? One of the significant characteristics of Religion of Piss, is that it has no regard for peoples freedom. You and i knew that if an Emir converts to Christianity today, the penalty is death. Tell us little about how usman danfodio forced islam on northerners. Do you force a good product on consumers. Muhammed forced islam on ARABS too.

oh GUDNESS ME....DID PROPHET MOHAMMED(PBUH) ENTER INDONESIA?? YET THEY AV D HIGHEST NUMBER OF MUSLIMS....M SO BLESSED BEEN A MUSLIM