Nairaland Forum

franchizy: The igbos are too greedy, they hate themselves, kill themselves, never want there brothers to progress, they have the highest rate of illitrates in Nigeria, they can do anything to make money, how can a tribe like ve a leader, compared to the North and South West. The Late Ojukwu destroyed Nigeria with his Biafra yet he is called a Hero. May God ve mercy on the Igbos and deliver them.

And you think you sound literate with the above trash? Your parents deserve a total refund for your 'education'. Mumu, illiterate ko, educationist ni.

franchizy: The igbos are too greedy, they hate themselves, kill themselves, never want there brothers to progress, they have the highest rate of illitrates in Nigeria, they can do anything to make money, how can a tribe like ve a leader, compared to the North and South West. The Late Ojukwu destroyed Nigeria with his Biafra yet he is called a Hero. May God ve mercy on the Igbos and deliver them.

i dont knw where u are from but i want to let u knw this; ur north and swest managed d resources of this country 4 99.9% of the years of our soverignty. Squandered over 80% of our IGR ment for all of us. Yet they are not in ur top list of greedy pple. Tell me any igbo who is more greedy than abacha,atiku,ibb, abubakar,obj,umaru dikko, and all ur bizmen who are so attached to government-dangote,dantata,otedola,jimoh ibrahim. Cant they run biz without attaching dmselves to govt like ibeto,innosson,nneji of abc transport fame, leo stan ekeh of zinox computer, orange drug etc!

Eziachi: Dear Ben Obi, Igbos has many leaders, its just that Nigerians are always looking at the wrong sources for leadership.

Igbos don't have Eze, say what u are sure of.

franchizy: The igbos are too greedy, they hate themselves, kill themselves, never want there brothers to progress, they have the highest rate of illitrates in Nigeria, they can do anything to make money, how can a tribe like ve a leader, compared to the North and South West. The Late Ojukwu destroyed Nigeria with his Biafra yet he is called a Hero. May God ve mercy on the Igbos and deliver them.

I hope for your sake you are still a child.

Their pockets are there leaders

pazienza: Igbo enweze doesn't mean that igbos never had leaders. The word 'eze' is an ancient igbo word,eze means King,if igbos never had kings at any point in their history,then the word 'eze',wouldn't be part of our lexicon.

Obele nwa, you sure don't know what 'ilu' Igbo means? That adage is centuries old, and signifies the loose democracy of Igbo republicanism where every male adult can vote or offer suggestions in matters affecting his society. This normally happens at the village square ,it also means that no single person makes orders or decisions by fiat in Igbo culture . It's this culture of representative republicanism which has made it difficult for Ndigbo to have a central structure that could produce a blueprint for a unified political leadership . I do know that we have 'Igwes and Ezes' in our various communities but the influence of those people in Igbo politics in general, is limited to their community. The bickerings and lack of focus in Ohaneze easily come to mind here. The only time Ndigbo really had leadership was during the civil war(brought about by suffering and persecution), Chinua Achebe analysed this phenomenon clearly in his book 'The Trouble With Nigeria'.

Afam4eva: What Ben Obi means is that Igbos have Leaders and not a leader.

Why are you saying what the man didn't say?

Are you now his spin Doc or spokesman ?

franchizy: The igbos are too greedy, they hate themselves, kill themselves, never want there brothers to progress, they have the highest rate of illitrates in Nigeria, they can do anything to make money, how can a tribe like ve a leader, compared to the North and South West. The Late Ojukwu destroyed Nigeria with his Biafra yet he is called a Hero. May God ve mercy on the Igbos and deliver them.

see this illiterate calling igbos 'illitrates'

Afam4eva: What Ben Obi means is that Igbos have Leaders and not a leader.

How is that any different from Hausas, Fulanis,Tivs,Berom,Igalas,Itsekiri,Yorubas,Edos or Ogonis why the attention seeking campaign?

Nightshift: Obele nwa, you sure don't know what 'ilu' Igbo means? That adage is centuries old, and signifies the loose democracy of Igbo republicanism where every male adult can vote or offer suggestions in matters affecting his society. This normally happens at the village square ,it also means that no single person makes orders or decisions by fiat in Igbo culture . It's this culture of representative republicanism which has made it difficult for Ndigbo to have a central structure that could produce a blueprint for a unified political leadership . I do know that we have 'Igwes and Ezes' in our various communities but the influence of those people in Igbo politics in general, is limited to their community. The bickerings and lack of focus in Ohaneze easily come to mind here. The only time Ndigbo really had leadership was during the civil war(brought about by suffering and persecution), Chinua Achebe analysed this phenomenon clearly in his book 'The Trouble With Nigeria'.

That can only work when society is organized at the village level.It would be chaos to manage a debate of 50 million men.Democracy in such a setting requires REPRESENTATIVE democracy. We are in 2013 not 1813.
There is a huge difference between LOCAL government and NATIONAL government. The democracy of a nation state cannot operate at the "ilo" level.Just like managing a shop in Onitsha market is a different ball game from managing Walmart. We have to evolve our democracy with the times.

Surely you are NOT suggesting Igbos can only operate village square democracy??

Not having a leader is tantamount to being primitive.......


Most Ancient and modern civilizations have a supreme leader, with the assistance of senators and representatives.... Having a leader is the embodiment of civilization, from Ancient Rome ( emperors) to ancient Greece ( Alexander the great), and Pharaohs that ruled Egypt.


These civilizations I just mentioned above won't be great and won't have conquered territories if they were societies built on individualism.

A single voice represented in one leader is better that a multiple voice represented in multiple leaders......


How does a society get something done if there is no general consensus, represented through 1 leader?

A single leader drives the people towards a united objective....... Having multiple leaders is chaotic, and the analogy that best describes it is having two drivers wanting to drive a car at the same time.



Individualism is primitive, and shouldn't be something worth rejoicing about..... All advanced societies thrive on cooperation and unity....



Before the genesis of the civil war, other parts of the region complained how ethnocentric the Igbos were,always favouring their people and wanting to dominate..... ( Ahamdo Bello made reference to it in a short Youtube clip, Akintola also did)...

Even though Igbos had some of the brightest and smartest minds heading top positions at the time, a psyche of nationhood would have helped them a lot.... It would have enabled them to carry locals (in the north, middle belt, or south west) along. You can't OBVIOUSLY dominate another group, if you aren't prepared to use force. You do it in a subtle way. These skills would have come naturally to Igbos, had they had a monolithic way of governance maybe throughout their history...


They thought individualism and individual strides apply to every region of the globe.... They were wrong with absolutely no fault of theirs.... What they saw as normal, other regions saw it as insensitivity, greed and pride.... Hence, maybe the pre- war hatred that Igbos are always wanting to 'dominate' other tribes.

@ topic, na today?

obo_man: Not having a leader is tantamount to being primitive.......


Most Ancient and modern civilizations have a supreme leader, with the assistance of senators and representatives.... Having a leader is the embodiment of civilization, from Ancient Rome ( emperors) to ancient Greece ( Alexander the great), and Pharaohs that ruled Egypt.


These civilizations I just mentioned above won't be great and won't have conquered territories if they were societies built on individualism.

A single voice represented in one leader is better that a multiple voice represented in multiple leaders......


How does a society get something done if there is no general consensus, represented through 1 leader?

A single leader drives the people towards a united objective....... Having multiple leaders is chaotic, and the analogy that best describes it is having two drivers wanting to drive a car at the same time.



Individualism is primitive, and shouldn't be something worth rejoicing about..... All advanced societies thrive on cooperation and unity....



Before the genesis of the civil war, other parts of the region complained how ethnocentric the Igbos were,always favouring their people and wanting to dominate..... ( Ahamdo Bello made reference to it in a short Youtube clip, Akintola also did)...

Even though Igbos had some of the brightest and smartest minds heading top positions at the time, a psyche of nationhood would have helped them a lot.... It would have enabled them to carry locals (in the north, middle belt, or south west) along. You can't OBVIOUSLY dominate another group, if you aren't prepared to use force. You do it a subtle way. These skills would have come naturally to Igbos, had they had a monolithic way of governance maybe throughout their history...


They thought individualism and individual strides apply to every region of the globe.... They were wrong with absolutely no fault of theirs.... What they saw as normal, other regions saw it as insensitivity, greed and pride.... Hence, maybe the pre- war hatred that Igbos are always wanting to 'dominate' other tribes.

What are you talking about? I think your generalizations are too broad and sweeping to have any meaning or usefulness.
Americans are just as individualistic as Igbos maybe even more so in some ways. What is more correct is that the Igbos had not started to organize themselves as a nation state like pretty much ALL of Eastern Nigeria and one might see that as a developmental notch in the path to the Modern nation state.Through history we see that different peoples have negotiated this transition in various ways whether gradually or precipitately.It is not a mark or primitiveness at all and more a reflection of size. Many "primitive" peoples have "leaders" or kings

aribisala0:
That can only work when society is organized at the village level.It would be chaos to manage a debate of 50 million men.Democracy in such a setting requires REPRESENTATIVE democracy. We are in 2013 not 1813.
There is a huge difference between LOCAL government and NATIONAL government. The democracy of a nation state cannot operate at the "ilo" level.Just like managing a shop in Onitsha market is a different ball game from managing Walmart. We have to evolve our democracy with the times.

Surely you are NOT suggesting Igbos can only operate village square democracy??

I was responding to 'Igbo enwe eze' question from another guy. Check my first take on this thread on (0) page - it has nothing to do with 'ilo' but 'ilu'.

Most Ancient and modern civilizations have a supreme leader, with the assistance of senators and representatives.... Having a leader is the embodiment of civilization, from Ancient Rome ( emperors) to ancient Greece ( Alexander the great), and Pharaohs that ruled Egypt.

I thought Ancient Greece was democratic. The coming of Alexander the great didn't really pose him as a King or mean he set up an empire/political structures like the Romans per se. He was more of a warrior.

Ndigbo don't have leaders based on permanent hereditary.

However, Ndigbo have Representatives who were Spokespersons who are delegated to act on its behalf.

Times have change and Ndigbo will evolve to a system that will be condusive to Nigerian Politics for a better future.

Ndigbo have loved and still love for each other, that's why it takes one Igboman in a locality or foreign land to make way for Igbo Community in no distant time.

APGA motto says Onye Aghala Nwanne Ya meaning Onye Igbo should never forget his brother.

Ngwakwe: Ndigbo don't have leaders based on permanent hereditary.

However, Ndigbo have Representatives who were Spokespersons who are delegated to act on its behalf.

Times have change and Ndigbo will evolve to a system that will be condusive to Nigerian Politics for a better future.

Ndigbo have loved and still love for each other, that's why it takes one Igboman in a locality or foreign land to make way for Igbo Community in no distant time.

APGA motto says Onye Aghala Nwanne Ya meaning Onye Igbo should never forget his brother.

Why make way for your brother in the village when u can make way for another brother from that foreign community?

aribisala0: What are you talking about? I think your generalizations are too broad and sweeping to have any meaning or usefulness.
Americans are just as individualistic as Igbos maybe even more so in some ways. What is more correct is that the Igbos had not started to organize themselves as a nation state like pretty much ALL of Eastern Nigeria and one might see that as a developmental notch in the path to the Modern nation state.Through history we see that different peoples have negotiated this transition in various ways whether gradually or precipitately.It is not a mark or primitiveness at all and more a reflection of size. Many "primitive" peoples have "leaders" or kings

Yes, many primitive people do have leaders and kings but it is no coincidence either that almost all forms of civilized societies have leaders and kings..

I'm not making a broad generalisation, I'm just supporting a universal claim that society achieves more if there is common purpose, represented through one leader...

Americans are individualistic but collectively united with a single constitutional ideology, which is also spearheaded by a single Commander-in-chief.

obo_man:

Yes, many primitive people do have leaders and kings but it is no coincidence either that almost all forms of civilized societies have leaders and kings..

I'm not making a broad generalisation, I'm just supporting a universal claim that society achieves more if there is common purpose, represented through one leader...

Americans are individualistic but collectively united with a single constitutional ideology, which is also spearheaded by a single Commander-in-chief.

And Igbos did not have government or governance? Since we do not have of have not agreed a definition of "LEADER" the onus is on you to provide one since you are making what seem to be wild and unsustainable assertions. To shift from "leader" to "constitutional ideology" "single commander in chief" widens your argument so much as to render it so conveniently elusive as to be meaningless.
By the way who is the present leader of the Hausa people or the Edo People or even the Yoruba people?
Did Zik not provide Leadership for Igbo people at some point?

aribisala0:
And Igbos did not have government or governance? Since we do not have of have not agreed a definition of "LEADER" the onus is on you to provide one since you are making what seem to be wild and unsustainable assertions. To shift from "leader" to "constitutional ideology" "single commander in chief" widens your argument so much as to render it so conveniently elusive as to be meaningless.
By the way who is the present leader of the Hausa people or the Edo People or even the Yoruba people?
Did Zik not provide Leadership for Igbo people at some point?

lool..... You struggling to comprehend me.......... By the way, we started our argument based on what Ken Obi said, and not whether Zik provided leadership at some point..

I beg to differ, the Ibos have a leader that they have refused to employ, a man of great reputation and high intelligence, the love of money and avarice has beclouded the Ibo race that they relegated the reputation of such men to the background. I am talking of no other man than Chief Eleazar Emeka Anyaokwu, One Man that the most silly Hausa man cannot reject if he dares to become President. The Yoruba people loves him and have a great deal of respect for his intelligence, The likes of Rochas and Orji kalu and many others are just too plastic to be real. Emeka Anyaokwu is a highly respected man with integrity and a great reputation.

http://akinbami.blogspot.com/2011/08/chief-eleazar-emeka-anyaoku-honor-well.html

http://akinbami.blogspot.com/2012/12/word-on-gold-we-have-failed-emeka.html

Nightshift: Obele nwa, you sure don't know what 'ilu' Igbo means? That adage is centuries old, and signifies the loose democracy of Igbo republicanism where every male adult can vote or offer suggestions in matters affecting his society. This normally happens at the village square ,it also means that no single person makes orders or decisions by fiat in Igbo culture . It's this culture of representative republicanism which has made it difficult for Ndigbo to have a central structure that could produce a blueprint for a unified political leadership . I do know that we have 'Igwes and Ezes' in our various communities but the influence of those people in Igbo politics in general, is limited to their community. The bickerings and lack of focus in Ohaneze easily come to mind here. The only time Ndigbo really had leadership was during the civil war(brought about by suffering and persecution), Chinua Achebe analysed this phenomenon clearly in his book 'The Trouble With Nigeria'.

Igbos once had eze,if not,we won't have a word for king.

Is there one Igbo language

Empire builders are mainly imperialists,who covet for power and resources that doesn't belong to them,now that's what i called primitive thinking. The ancient igbos never coveted for people's resources,they believed in live and let live,and it's because of this reason that we have diversity in the east,if the igbos were imperialists,like some people i know,we would have since united,and there wouldn't have been minority tribes in the east,by the time the whites stepped foot in the east,as they would have been conquered and assimilated.

What belongs to whom? Does the banana belong to man or the monkey. Man came together in groups for survival often to protect themselves from other groups. No matter how nice you are as a people you must militarize to survive and often attack proved a more effective defence than Pacifism.Eastern Nigeria was protected naturally by the Forest and the ocean but eventually succumbed to the British and would either have succumbed to others or organized itself differently. Many small groups are now extinct. Let us not deceive ourselves with sentimental claptrap.The purpose of bigger nations is survival primarily.

aribisala0: Is there one Igbo language

No,igbos speak in dialects.

And they all originated the word; Eze or borrowed from "whom it may concern"

Jettage: I beg to differ, the Ibos have a leader that they have refused to employ, a man of great reputation and high intelligence, the love of money and avarice has beclouded the Ibo race that they relegated the reputation of such men to the background. I am talking of no other man than Chief Eleazar Emeka Anyaokwu, One Man that the most silly Hausa man cannot reject if he dares to become President. The Yoruba people loves him and have a great deal of respect for his intelligence, The likes of Rochas and Orji kalu and many others are just too plastic to be real. Emeka Anyaokwu is a highly respected man with integrity and a great reputation.

http://akinbami.blogspot.com/2011/08/chief-eleazar-emeka-anyaoku-honor-well.html

http://akinbami.blogspot.com/2012/12/word-on-gold-we-have-failed-emeka.html

did anyaoku tell you that he wants to become an 'igbo leader' or become the president?

pazienza: No,igbos speak in dialects.

But there's a "central Igbo" that everyone speaks, or is it not?

pazienza: Empire builders are mainly imperialists,who covet for power and resources that doesn't belong to them,now that's what i called primitive thinking. The ancient igbos never coveted for people's resources,they believed in live and let live,and it's because of this reason that we have diversity in the east,if the igbos were imperialists,like some people i know,we would have since united,and there wouldn't have been minority tribes in the east,by the time the whites stepped foot in the east,as they would have been conquered and assimilated.

Empire builders are pragmatic people who realise that man is devious by nature and responds better to force and threats of force. You are in a position to to exert more threats when you have more men and resources and that is how man has developed his nations. It is just the same in business. If I buy half of what Guinness Nigeria produces daily will they sell at the same rate as he who buys a lorry. In the affairs of Nations Size is everything and so this idea of Igbos never coveting anything is Naive . Did Igbos come from the Sky ?? Even small nations are built from tribes of 20-100 how do they reach a population of 1 million.
Did Igbos not enjoy the slave trade like others??