13. In the lawyer's agreement, it should be stated that the minimum lot size should be N500k

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14. In the lawyer's agreement, it should be stated that the minimum lot size should be N 1 million?

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15. This partnership must be registered with CAC?
(Is this possible when most of us are not living inside this country?)

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16. Show a list of all members who paid publicly on this thread before we start the project?

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17. We form a committee drawn from the members to run the investment?

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18. Hire a lawyer, an estate surveyor and engineer to supervise the business from the beginning?

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ckenneths: 8. Enugu

@spyder880 , you repeated Enugu twice.....

rastaman20:

@spyder880 , you repeated Enugu twice.....

No it was not a mistake, the first one is the city we hold our first meeting and the second is the city we build the first house. I repeated all the cities.

19. Do we build a block of 4 flats of 3 bedrooms each in a compound and sell the flats as different units to individual buyers?

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ckenneths:

No it was not a mistake, the first one is the city we hold our first meeting and the second is the city we build the first house. I repeated all the cities.

Noted,

Keep the votes coming guys, we summarize the standings by the end of this week. I am also thinking up a name for the project mail address.

ckenneths: In making this decision, we are assuming that 5 bedroom duplex will be built with N25m

2. Do you support we first build a duplex?

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I guess the major reason the votes are flowing in the direction of a Bungalow could be as a result of what seemed like a departure from your usual costing of a Duplex. In hindsight, exclusive of the cost of land and fencing, the budget you posted for the Duplex at Abakaliki (though according to you was a tight one) was in the range of +/- 12.8 million. Those of Owerri and Enugu, if I could remember, were equally in the same range. Ok, assuming that 4 or 5 million out of the 25 million would be spent on land, fencing and documentation, it would still be a whopping 7 to 8 million naira more than the similar projects that preceded this new idea. My question here is, did you execute these projects with this margin of budget short-falls, I'm just wondering?

From the very good and reliable information we gathered from you, Enugu lands have become so expensive that a 3 million Naira parcel of land would be hard to find. If it were so, what is the guarantee that building a 25 or 10 million naira house for that matter outside a highbrow area (as 3 million would appear to afford) would attract a quick sale and with the expected 25 to 30 percent net profit. What area(s) in Enugu do you have in mind? Thank you.

kostadinis:



I guess the major reason the votes are flowing in the direction of a Bungalow could be as a result of what seemed like a departure from your usual costing of a Duplex. In hindsight, exclusive of the cost of land and fencing, the budget you posted for the Duplex at Abakaliki (though according to you was a tight one) was in the range of +/- 12.8 million. Those of Owerri and Enugu, if I could remember, were equally in the same range. Ok, assuming that 4 or 5 million out of the 25 million would be spent on land, fencing and documentation, it would still be a whopping 7 to 8 million naira more than the similar projects that preceded this new idea. My question here is, did you execute these projects with this margin of budget short-falls, I'm just wondering?

From the very good and reliable information we gathered from you, Enugu lands have become so expensive that a 3 million Naira parcel of land would be hard to find. If it were so, what is the guarantee that building a 25 or 10 million naira house for that matter outside a highbrow area (as 3 million would appear to afford) would attract a quick sale and with the expected 25 to 30 percent net profit. What area(s) in Enugu do you have in mind? Thank you.

Thank you Kostadinis, in fact I had expected this question since the day I put up those options. An intending member had also called me on phone to ask this same question about the N25m duplex. My reason for increasing the likely budget from my earlier planned N20m to this N25m is because the more you add into a building for sale, the more the likelihood of attracting better buyers. I don't want us to be saddled with a house where people will be giving excuses like, "I would have loved to buy this house if the rooms were bigger", "This kitchen is so much smaller than the one we have in the village, my wife will not like this" or "Why couldn't you landscape the compound?"

It is not that N20m cannot build us a decent duplex in Enugu, but in our first outing we should not be seen to be too tight or economical in either the building stage or the finish, especially the finish. You will also note that in those projects I am building both in Ebonyi and Enugu, the compound is not part of the costing that resulted in N12+ million. I intend us to treat the compound of the duplex with interlocking tiles and generally lift the profile of the house with most modern looks and additions in building. My experience in building sales is much, I had built and sold bungalows in Enugu in 2005-2006 and I know where buyers always look at, the finish.

Now lets look at the lands, with N20m, I am sure we can get a good land to buy where this house could be built with 4.25m, then raise the fence with around N1m, treat the documents with another N500k and build a moderate house with 13m while the balance of N750k will most likely go into administrative charges like hiring the lawyer you guys have been voting for up there, the surveyor, the engineer and even a security man to ensure the safety of materials and fittings in the house. We could easily sell this for N25m and walk away with N5m profit.

But how about looking into areas where lands are costlier, because you will see buyers that will not like to get into the deeper areas where lands of N4m are located. (N4m can only afford us areas like the Nike area of Enugu, Abakpa, One day area of Awkunanaw etc) So in the second scenario we have N25m in our hands, raise the bar and buy a land with N7m (in areas like Trans Ekulu, Independence layout suburbs, New Haven extension and other areas), fence it with N1m, raise a proper documentation plus community development levies with N500k, then use N15m to build a better finished duplex than the former one, N750k for interlocking and other works in the compound and still leave N750k for the professionals we hired just like in the example above. We can walk away with N5m-N6m profit in this example because the house will be located in a better area where buyers will always love the neighborhood and may pay higher.

My thinking on the bungalow is still going to be tight, but bungalows are easier to build as they last a shorter period which may reduce administrative costs. We buy a land with N4m, raise a fence with N1m, do the documentation + community development levies with N500k, build a house with N4.5m and that's even with aluminium step tiles, as we cannot afford a stone coated roofing or parapet in this option. It is tight, but doable.

Anyway I am just thinking this alone, by the time we form a committee as I can see in the votes that many of us are are asking for, they will help me organize these thoughts better as two good heads are always better than one. Let me also ask that if there are other options you guys remember which we ought to put up now, it is not too late for us to put up the option for voting. (like asking members to choose between the N20m or the N25m duplex, I will use house pictures to illustrate these)

This is a 5 bedroom duplex, still at the construction stage but this is the type of house we can afford to build with N20m for both land and house.

But I am looking at this, and the possibility that N25m can do this (land and house)

In fact we can decide to make it grand, but I don't think N25m can complete this for both land and house, look at even the fence, classy

Well, by the time the committee will start meeting, we can sort out all these costs and choice of houses.

All these are possible, when ratified by the committee and the costs are planned.

@ Spyder,

No option for 3BR flats of 4 units apartment building?
I think it may be more profitable than the Duplex or Bungalow because of volume.
We will be selling each unit separately.
At least let's consider and research about it.

Sagewood: @ Spyder,

No option for 3BR flats of 4 units apartment building?
I think it may be more profitable than the Duplex or Bungalow because of volume.
We will be selling each unit separately.
At least let's consider and research about it.

Ok, I will add the option later today, but what made me not add it before is because I want us to start with something smaller, that might be easier to sell. Let us also consider the implications of this 4 flats of 3 bedrooms for sale by the unit, let us remember that since each family will need at least one parking space, this block of 4 flats may need to be built on 2 plots of land to accomodate the desires of the prospective buyers. For the plot size we are looking at, the budget for this type might be up to N40m or slightly lower.

There is an estate where this option is available for sale at Enugu, (I will show pictures of this estate later tonight) apart from there the idea has not gained much popularity in Enugu as people here are more interested about the "land" and its future value than the house on it.

spyder880:

Thank you Kostadinis, in fact I had expected this question since the day I put up those options. An intending member had also called me on phone to ask this same question about the N25m duplex. My reason for increasing the likely budget from my earlier planned N20m to this N25m is because the more you add into a building for sale, the more the likelihood of attracting better buyers. I don't want us to be saddled with a house where people will be giving excuses like, "I would have loved to buy this house if the rooms were bigger", "This kitchen is so much smaller than the one we have in the village, my wife will not like this" or "Why couldn't you landscape the compound?"

It is not that N20m cannot build us a decent duplex in Enugu, but in our first outing we should not be seen to be too tight or economical in either the building stage or the finish, especially the finish. You will also note that in those projects I am building both in Ebonyi and Enugu, the compound is not part of the costing that resulted in N12+ million. I intend us to treat the compound of the duplex with interlocking tiles and generally lift the profile of the house with most modern looks and additions in building. My experience in building sales is much, I had built and sold bungalows in Enugu in 2005-2006 and I know where buyers always look at, the finish.

Now lets look at the lands, with N20m, I am sure we can get a good land to buy where this house could be built with 4.25m, then raise the fence with around N1m, treat the documents with another N500k and build a moderate house with 13m while the balance of N750k will most likely go into administrative charges like hiring the lawyer you guys have been voting for up there, the surveyor, the engineer and even a security man to ensure the safety of materials and fittings in the house. We could easily sell this for N25m and walk away with N5m profit.

But how about looking into areas where lands are costlier, because you will see buyers that will not like to get into the deeper areas where lands of N4m are located. (N4m can only afford us areas like the Nike area of Enugu, Abakpa, One day area of Awkunanaw etc) So in the second scenario we have N25m in our hands, raise the bar and buy a land with N7m (in areas like Trans Ekulu, Independence layout suburbs, New Haven extension and other areas), fence it with N1m, raise a proper documentation plus community development levies with N500k, then use N15m to build a better finished duplex than the former one, N750k for interlocking and other works in the compound and still leave N750k for the professionals we hired just like in the example above. We can walk away with N5m-N6m profit in this example because the house will be located in a better area where buyers will always love the neighborhood and may pay higher.

My thinking on the bungalow is still going to be tight, but bungalows are easier to build as they last a shorter period which may reduce administrative costs. We buy a land with N4m, raise a fence with N1m, do the documentation + community development levies with N500k, build a house with N4.5m and that's even with aluminium step tiles, as we cannot afford a stone coated roofing or parapet in this option. It is tight, but doable.

Anyway I am just thinking this alone, by the time we form a committee as I can see in the votes that many of us are are asking for, they will help me organize these thoughts better as two good heads are always better than one. Let me also ask that if there are other options you guys remember which we ought to put up now, it is not too late for us to put up the option for voting. (like asking members to choose between the N20m or the N25m duplex, I will use house pictures to illustrate these)

Your explanations are okay in as much as individuals wanting to "finish" a Duplex building could still get the job done with a +12 million naira budget. This is important so that your followers, including the silent, would not get lost in the unfolding situation.

I agree with you. Of course, the quality and level of facilities inside a property determines the market price and as such there should not be any hard-and-fast rule in preparing the budget for a property meant for the market. Emene was left out in the low income areas you mentioned, is there anything different from that area and Nike or Abakpa?
Thanks, jisike

kostadinis:

Your explanations are okay in as much as individuals wanting to "finish" a Duplex building could still get the job done with a +12 million naira budget. This is important so that your followers, including the silent, would not get lost in the unfolding situation.

I agree with you. Of course, the quality and level of facilities inside a property determines the market price and as such there should not be any hard-and-fast rule in preparing the budget for a property meant for the market. Emene was left out in the low income areas you mentioned, is there anything different from that area and Nike or Abakpa?
Thanks, jisike

No difference, but we cannot hope to sell a house fast in the old Emene because of the perception of most Enugu residents who will like to see Emene as out of site when compared to the rest of Enugu town. Lands are cheaper at old Emene but buyers tend to prefer Nike area to Emene area. But the part of Emene which I have always liked, and where there is a likelyhood of a quality sale is the Thinker's corner area of Emene. There is a steady rise in the number of high quality buildings springing up in that area. But still, care must be taken to ensure we don't buy the land where the airport authorities designated as low density area due to the closeness of the area to the airport. They will only allow us build a bungalow there, the government will never approve a duplex there. Thank you for the contributions, please keep them coming as this will ensure we consider all options, that is why two heads are better than one. And, if you know of a quality piece of land free of problems, also suggest so we can start to scan it for possible interest even as we try to tie up all the other aspects of this venture.

spyder880:

Ok, I will add the option later today, but what made me not add it before is because I want us to start with something smaller, that might be easier to sell. Let us also consider the implications of this 4 flats of 3 bedrooms for sale by the unit, let us remember that since each family will need at least one parking space, this block of 4 flats may need to be built on 2 plots of land to accomodate the desires of the prospective buyers. For the plot size we are looking at, the budget for this type might be up to N40m or slightly lower.

There is an estate where this option is available for sale at Enugu, (I will show pictures of this estate later tonight) apart from there the idea has not gained much popularity in Enugu as people here are more interested about the "land" and its future value than the house on it.

There is no problem with parking space and 4nos of 3bedroom flats as the normal set backs around the house is more than enough to park as much as much6 cars but if the project is not holding in lagos or ABUJA (which will be decided by the votes) then i guess this idea might not really fly because of the mentality of people in other areas and the cost of land is not really hard on them to want to share compound with as many as 3 people. But on the profit side, it gives us the opportunity to make more and the chance for so many buyers to buyeven our brothers in diaspora can buy to have somewhere to stay when they come back or even let out which might not really be the case in a duplex but the cost of construction will definitely be higher.
Thank you

Junapril:

There is no problem with parking space and 4nos of 3bedroom flats as the normal set backs around the house is more than enough to park as much as much6 cars but if the project is not holding in lagos or ABUJA (which will be decided by the votes) then i guess this idea might not really fly because of the mentality of people in other areas and the cost of land is not really hard on them to want to share compound with as many as 3 people. But on the profit side, it gives us the opportunity to make more and the chance for so many buyers to buyeven our brothers in diaspora can buy to have somewhere to stay when they come back or even let out which might not really be the case in a duplex but the cost of construction will definitely be higher.
Thank you

Your points are noted, but I am talking about the relative comfort of the buyers, nobody will like to park behind another "co landlord" and be called to reverse for another to move out late at night or early in the morning when he is not ready to come down from his upstairs flat. It is irritating to say the least. More space may be needed for better parking. I know this option is popular in Abuja where land cost is much higher. This is the only place I know right now in Enugu where flats are sold per unit, note the large compound where people are allotted parking spaces and you can go out and come in whenever you so wish.

spyder880:

Your points are noted, but I am talking about the relative comfort of the buyers, nobody will like to park behind another "co landlord" and be called to reverse for another to move out late at night or early in the morning when he is not ready to come down from his upstairs flat. It is irritating to say the least. More space may be needed for better parking. I know this option is popular in Abuja where land cost is much higher. This is the only place I know right now in Enugu where flats are sold per unit, note the large compound where people are allotted parking spaces and you can go out and come in whenever you so wish.

I undersand you perfectly. if that is the case, an extra half plot may be considered as that would add to the aesthetics of the compound with enough space for parking and ccreative landscape design. All depends on the budget and people's vote.

Junapril:

I undersand you perfectly. if that is the case, an extra half plot may be considered as that would add to the aesthetics of the compound with enough space for parking and ccreative landscape design. All depends on the budget and people's vote.

I have now added the 4 flats of 3 bedrooms option as number 19 to be voted for. Thanks.

Keep the votes coming, I am suggesting we should round off these voting by 12 midnight of Saturday the 23rd of February 2013.
Does anybody have a contrary opinion?

Fhemmmy: I have for sure been missing in action . . . Apologies, my Chief!
A question, is this a close end investment? meaning if someone do not join at the start doing to other commitments and ready later to join, will he/she be let in or the door will be shut at his face?

Welcome Oga mi, I think this question should best be answered after the meeting of the committee and thereafter included in the agreement to be prepared by a lawyer. But if I am asked of my opinion on the issue even before we meet, I will suggest the first one be close ended and new members be accepted only after the exit of a member.

I have a long outlook about this business, there will be others started for other ranges like another group might want to build many houses and might want to contribute up to N5m each, that is why I titled this one as the "first" property investment partnership. I am hoping this one will give birth to the second, third..... till the tenth partnership

@Fhemmmy what part of state do you live?

ckenneths: 15. This partnership must be registered with CAC?
(Is this possible when most of us are not living inside this country?)

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@ Spyder,

The way you structured the voting system may not give people options to vote for or against
some proposals. For example, # 15, registration with CAC. How do we know the majority voted for it?
What will form the majority or the critical mass of people/ would-be investors?

Sagewood:

@ Spyder,

The way you structured the voting system may not give people options to vote for or against
some proposals. For example, # 15, registration with CAC. How do we know the majority voted for it?
What will form the majority or the critical mass of people/ would-be investors?

This is why I like you guys to be close by while we organize this. If I understand you well, you are suggesting I add another option where would-be investors vote on, like

"This partnership should not be registered with CAC?"