Mr_Anony:
Yes it is illicit sex. They are not married. Promise of marriage does not automatically equal marriage.

I didn't say 'promise' of marriage. I said, committed to being marry with consent from both parents. Will such s.ex or love making in such case be called fornication (illicit s.ex)?

Mr_Anony:
You have spoken well...now answer me this: Is lust between two single unmarried people a sin? Yes or no?

Good answer...so if lust between two single unmarried people is sin, is there a type of sex that is without lust?

Another error of understanding due to misuse of language with the word LUST. Lust does not mean a s.exual desire(which is comparable to hunger). Lust is the desire to own or posses, as in a property.

Words like LUST and PASSION are now misused to mean s.exual urge.

There's been a lot of mistranslations due to writers trying to input an opinion to what the scripts rather than simply translating. This is why I prefer the New American Standard Bible: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_American_Standard_Bible" for having the most literal, word-for-word rendering of bible scripts, without trying to conform to any cultural or politcal correctness in use of language. They simply write literally as they see it.

.

Goshen360:

I didn't say 'promise' of marriage. I said, committed to being marry with consent from both parents. Will such s.ex or love making in such case be called fornication (illicit s.ex)?

Then if they are so "committed" to marriage and parents' marital consent is already given, they might as well wait and marry. The pre-marital sex here is absolutely unnecessary.

Mr_Anony:
Then if they are so "committed" to marriage and parents' marital consent is already given, they might as well wait and marry. The pre-marital sex here is absolutely unnecessary.

AH, Thank God you do not agree!

Goshen360:

I didn't say 'promise' of marriage. I said, committed to being marry with consent from both parents. Will such s.ex or love making in such case be called fornication (illicit s.ex)?

Yes it is baba nla fornication. If perchance something happens and the couple break up and move on to other people, and somethin happens again and the partners break again, meanwhile they have been banging each other's brains out because they are "committed to marry each other". If it takes three or four different breakups before they finally settle down, will they sleep with all three or four different people?

Sex outside the confines of marriage is wrong. Let us not try to rationalise sin. Sin is sin.

Bélla3: AH, Thank God you do not agree!

My sister ehn, the tin taya me. I don't understand why this argument is going on. The bible says we should flee fornication, yet folks are trying to use grammar to justify it.

Mr_Anony:
Then if they are so "committed" to marriage and parents' marital consent is already given, they might as well wait and marry. The pre-marital sex here is absolutely unnecessary.

So you're saying until they go to church to marry, they aren't marry yet even though the parents have given consent? Is that what you're saying?

okeyxyz:

This is very insightful. NICE!!
Se.x itself is not(and cannot be) sin. The real "sin" is se.x-abuse; meaning se.xual-immorality; meaning fornication. Abuse is either unnatural or illegal(without consent) se.x, including r.ape, bestiality, homo\bi-se.xuality, pedophilia, idolatry, etc

You do not need marriage to enjoy se.x. Marriage as we know it is a invention\tradition of man, not of god. Se.x between consenting adult male and female CANNOT be sin, it is a nature and it is godly expression. This is the freedom that christ has given you: the infinite right to go as you "please", to express your true self without the conscience of the law in the way to condemn you with it's: "Thou shalt not..., thou shalt not...". If god cannot sin, then whatsoever is of god's nature(pleasures of eating, drinking and s.ex) cannot be sin. Enjoy...

sex as you said is not sin, but without the institution of marriage it is.its a desire God has put in us to make marital rship strong.sex is like a fire that must be put at the fire place which is marriage.

Calculus12:

Goshen r those d nature of God? does God have sexx?

i pity!

It's hard to take because we have been so used to religions relegating s.ex, regarding it as a "dirty" act which does not glorify god. We treat it as a temptation and inconvinience, ...
But I tell you this: S.ex is god's nature. That is why Paul emphasizes that the worst sin is a s.exual sin. This is the only category of sin that can defile the body(temple of god).

Goshen360:

On the above, lemme ask you a question. If a man and a woman is committed to marrying one another with consent and from both parents but have not yet married, having pre-marriage s.ex or making love to one another; is that a fornication that is, is that an illicit s.ex?

@Goshen,
You have already answered your question. It is pre-marital sex.

S.ex. within marriage is the only God-approved intimacy, so if you are equating parental consent to mean marriage and the parents agree that you both are married (not going to marry o), the bride too knows she is married, then you are married. In today's world, people take a step further to get court and church validations.

But if you guys and family are thinking of holding a wedding, just as Christ attended one, and it is in that wedding that you and your small world can attest that you are married, then any act of intimacy before it is sin.

Summary, sex is only approved in marriage by God. That is what you have been told here on and on. All these bringing scenarios into it will not help you.

Ishilove:
Yes it is baba nla fornication. If perchance something happens and the couple break up and move on to other people, and somethin happens again and the partners break again, meanwhile they have been banging each other's brains out because they are "committed to marry each other". If it takes three or four different breakups before they finally settle down, will they sleep with all three or four different people?

Sex outside the confines of marriage is wrong. Let us not try to rationalise sin. Sin is sin.

You're saying "IF" something happens they didn't marry. What if nothing happens and they still marry? You're only talking of the 'formalized' marriage ceremony. When parents of both gives consent and they unmarried people are committed to marrying one another, in the eyes of God, they're already married. We only do ceremony for 'formal' purpose. In such case, is such pre-FORMAL marriage 'love making' a fornication?

Ishilove:
My sister ehn, the tin taya me. I don't understand why this argument is going on. The bible says we should flee fornication, yet folks are trying to use grammar to justify it.

The thing tire you? The thing kill me o.
It is very clear christians are ready to go any length to twist the bible.

Snowwy:

@Goshen,
You have already answered your question. It is pre-marital sex.

S.ex. within marriage is the only God-approved intimacy, so if you are equating parental consent to mean marriage and the parents agree that you both are married (not going to marry o), the bride too knows she is married, then you are married. In today's world, people take a step further to get court and church validations.

But if you guys and family are thinking of holding a wedding, just as Christ attended one, and it is in that wedding that you and your small world can attest that you are married, then any act of intimacy before it is sin.

Summary, sex is only approved in marriage by God. That is what you have been told here on and on. All these bringing scenarios into it will not help you.

Yes, I agree but can you show us where Adam did 'formal' marriage by going to church or court before 'knowing' Eve to start bearing children I want us to reason in bible context.

Goshen360:

Yes, I agree but can you show us where Adam did 'formal' marriage by going to church or court before 'knowing' Eve to start bearing children I want us to reason in bible context.

NA WA for this kweshion. Eve, was made specificaly for Adam. But now, we all have the choice to choose.

Goshen360:
So you're saying until they go to church to marry, they aren't marry yet even though the parents have given consent? Is that what you're saying?

They don't need to go to church and marry sef. if the thing dey hold them too much that they can't wait, they can call their pastor and witnesses to marry them over the phone or skype the wedding sharp sharp. You are just seeking loopholes. As long as they are not married, they are fornicating.

Goshen360:

Yes, I agree but can you show us where Adam did 'formal' marriage by going to church or court before 'knowing' Eve to start bearing children I want us to reason in bible context.

Who were Adam and Eves parents?

You mean God's giving them to each other was not wedding enough?

Are you kidding me or just so bored you are looking for who to banter with?

christemmbassey: my broda, i dont know if you 've seen my opinion, in my view as a christian, sex should be between A MAN AND HIS WIFE, outside that, it is illicit, fornication/adultery therefor a sin, its is not food, but highly spiritual activity that welds or joins two halves to become one. It is a kolnonia of two spirits, i suspect okeyxyz, pls allow the Spirit of God to teach you not how well you can explain any man's writtings, it is not theology pls.

So you want to tell me that a man\woman who never gets married must never have s.ex? This cannot possible be an instruction from god. This is how s.exual deviations like homos.exuality, inces.t and bestiality starts. When you deny the true, natural expression of s.ex, then it finds other ways to express itself. And this true, natural expression is not in marriage. Yes, marriage is granted because man wants it, but it is only permissible, not perfect. Paul said that he wished all men where like him, unmarried, are you saying that he wished all men never had s.ex?? IMPOSSIBLE!!. Accept this if you can: Paul and the apostles where single and having s.ex.

Bélla3: The thing tire you? The thing kill me o.
It is very clear christians are ready to go any length to twist the bible.

Abeg make una cool down joor. Haba. Let's look into scripture and reason out our Christian faith in the Spirit of truth. What I'm saying is a man and woman with consent to marry and consent from parents, even without 'formal' marriage ceremony when they 'make love' is not pre-marital se.x because in the eyes of God, they're already married otherwise, there would have being 'formal' marriage ceremony when God instituted marriage in Eden but there was none.

What say ye?

Goshen360:

Yes, I agree but can you show us where Adam did 'formal' marriage by going to church or court before 'knowing' Eve to start bearing children I want us to reason in bible context.

This is a very irrelevant question with the intent to mislead. Can you show us any other man in the bible who God created his wife direct from his rib so that we can properly compare the "context"?

Mr_Anony:
They don't need to go to church and marry sef. if the thing dey hold them too much that they can't wait, they can call their pastor and witnesses to marry them over the phone or skype the wedding sharp sharp. You are just seeking loopholes. As long as they are not married, they are fornicating.

NO, I disagree - It's not the pastor that 'consent' to marriage. It is whoever find a wife finds a good thing and parents giving their 'consent'. Where does scripture say PASTOR MUST bless me and my partner before I marry? Show me scripture and I promise to quit this argument (reasoning).

Mr_Anony:
Goshen stop beating around the bush. You are focusing on the letter here and not the Spirit. The question is about the action and not what particular word is used to describe it. If lust between two unmarried people is sin, then in order for sex between them not to be sin it must be completely devoid of lust.

If you show me such special kind of sex that exists totally free of lust then you have a point and we can now begin looking at "context", if not then you are just seeking a loophole by trying to redefine what it means to abuse sex.

If fornication is illicit sex and any lust outside marriage is illicit lust, then it follows that any sex whatsoever outside marriage will equally fall under the category of illicit sex. Simple logic

In order to contest this, you must show us a type of sex that is entirely devoid of lust. Only then will you and okeyxyz's "theology" begin to make any sort scriptural sense to base discussions on. For now, you are both wrong as far as scripture is concerned.

Just disuse your mind of the impression that LUST=SEX, or PASSION=SEX, then you'll see that all you'd been taught through religion is a misrepresentation.

Goshen360:

What're you saying NO to please? Kindly follow up with words. That's where I'm going o

what is marriage, is it the ceremony or the commitment of two ppl with the acceptance of both parents? I think the latter not the former is marriage, l dont mean because you want sleep with a girl you decieve her, sleep with her tomorrow you go to another victim. Now the motive/intention is a big player here. Peace

Goshen360:

Abeg make una cool down joor. Haba. Let's look into scripture and reason out our Christian faith in the Spirit of truth. What I'm saying is a man and woman with consent to marry and consent from parents, even without 'formal' marriage ceremony when they 'make love' is not pre-marital se.x because in the eyes of God, they're already married otherwise, there would have being 'formal' marriage ceremony when God instituted marriage in Eden but there was none.

What say ye?

Marriage in eden?? Yes, God was the officiator and witness.
Since they have gotten consent to marry why not make it legal?? Oga GOSHEN

Goshen360:

What're you saying NO to please? Kindly follow up with words. That's where I'm going o

what is marriage, is it the ceremony or the commitment of two ppl with the acceptance of both parents (engaged)? I think the latter not the former is marriage, l dont mean because you want sleep with a girl you decieve her, sleep with her tomorrow you go to another victim. Now the motive/intention is a big player here. Peace

Mr_Anony:
This is a very irrelevant question with the intent to mislead. Can you show us any other man in the bible who God created his wife direct from his rib so that we can properly compare the "context"?

You just made my point. I'm saying - IN THE EYES OF GOD, such people are already married. We only bring in the consent of parents today because what followed in the commandment of God was - therefore shall a man leave his FATHER AND MOTHER....that's where parental consent comes in.

What say ye?

Goshen360:
What I'm saying is a man and woman with consent to marry and consent from parents, even without 'formal' marriage ceremony when they 'make love' is not pre-marital se.x because in the eyes of God, they're already married otherwise, there would have being 'formal' marriage ceremony when God instituted marriage in Eden but there was none.

What say ye?

Do not get it twisted Goshen. Consent to marry is NOT marriage.

God created a help meet for Adam, specially packaged wife. That was the first place wife was used. Gen 2:24

If you are not sleeping with your wife or husband, you are commiting sin. shikena. Whatever definition you have to the word Husband or Wife, na you sabi.
I rest my case.

Bélla3: Marriage in eden?? Yes, God was the officiator and witness.
Since they have gotten consent to marry why not make it legal?? Oga GOSHEN

Exactly what I'm saying - THERE WASN'T ANY 'FORMAL' CEREMONY in Eden between Adam and Eve because when God brought Eve to Adam, and Adam accepted, IN THE EYES OF GOD, they're already married - They're husband and wife. There wasn't ANY 'former' ceremony. Formal ceremony is for modern day way, that's not the way God sees it. In such case, Adam 'making love' with his wife IS NOT fornication.

What say ye?

Mr_Anony:
They don't need to go to church and marry sef. if the thing dey hold them too much that they can't wait, they can call their pastor and witnesses to marry them over the phone or skype the wedding sharp sharp. You are just seeking loopholes. As long as they are not married, they are fornicating.

The thing easy...just pay bride price and then go court go register according to the law of ceaser.............

E be like goshen problem na wether him must go church or not.............

okeyxyz:

Another error of understanding due to misuse of language with the word LUST. Lust does not mean a s.exual desire(which is comparable to hunger). Lust is the desire to own or posses, as in a property.

Words like LUST and PASSION are now misused to mean s.exual urge.

There's been a lot of mistranslations due to writers trying to input an opinion to what the scripts rather than simply translating. This is why I prefer the New American Standard Bible: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_American_Standard_Bible" for having the most literal, word-for-word rendering of bible scripts, without trying to conform to any cultural or politcal correctness in use of language. They simply write literally as they see it.

Interesting....I also like NASB too.

1Thessalonians 4:3-5 For this is the will of God, your sanctification; that is, that you abstain from sexual immorality; that each of you know how to possess his own vessel in sanctification and honor, not in lustful passion, like the Gentiles who do not know God;

Galatians 5:19 Now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are: immorality, impurity, sensuality, idolatry, sorcery, enmities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, disputes, dissensions...... factions,

Snowwy:

Do not get it twisted Goshen. Consent to marry is NOT marriage.

God created a help meet for Adam, specially packaged wife. That was the first place wife was used. Gen 2:24

If you are not sleeping with your wife or husband, you are commiting sin. shikena. Whatever definition you have to the word Husband or Wife, na you sabi.
I rest my case.

You're talking like that because you're taking marriage that there must be 'formal' ceremony. I do not think there MUST be formal ceremony. The 'consent' of both parents has put the two consenting adults in marriage. The ceremony is ONLY a 'formal' thing.

ijawkid:

The thing easy...just pay bride price and then go court go register according to the law of ceaser.............

E be like goshen problem na wether him must go church or not.............

Which people are those that goes to church or court in the bible in order to marry? Show me one and let me quit this thread. And I will openly apologize for whatever I have said. You people don't wanna even listen to the point I'm talking.