ijawkid:

At least you go pay that bride price first.....no be just for parents to say ""YES"" we gree for you to marry our daughter.....actions and following the laid down laws of the land must be adhered to......

And isn't the registering of ones marraige in the court like a requirement from ceaser??..............pay back ceasers things to ceaser bro.......

You want make I cain you ni. I said, under the law of Moses, in order to pay dowry, the man must lay with the woman. That's the pre-requisite for paying dowry. Otherwise, no dowry o....if no laying. Abi I wan buy market make I no see how product be ni.....

okeyxyz:

Why would I be "dividing scripture" if I was an atheist? I'm 100% christian.

yes because satan once quoted the scripture to Jesus, how can a christian reason this way? Who taught you this waywardness? I wonder, bro you remember that song? -examine urself if you belong to Jesus', can you in all honesty teach ur children this error? Pls be shncere.

Goshen360:

Every body needs to READ this please. This is the point I'm making. When two people have the consent of BOTH parents, THEY ARE MARRIED IN THE EYES OF GOD. How the man gets his wife is irrelevant. In this case, the parents have given consent to both. They are free to make love. That's not illicit s.ex ANYMORE and it's not fornication. You people should not let the institutionalized church say you must do this or do that do be husband and wife.

I need to understand this before I comment on it.

Are you saying that I can go to the parents of whomever I want yo get married to and as soon as I get their 'Yes' I take her home as wife?

Goshen360:

You want make I cain you ni. I said, under the law of Moses, in order to pay dowry, the man must lay with the woman. That's the pre-requisite for paying dowry. Otherwise, no dowry o....if no laying. Abi I wan buy market make I no see how product be ni.....

Na hin b say no body go marry for Africa be that ni!

striktlymi:

I need to understand this before I comment on it.

Are you saying that I can go to the parents of whomever I want yo get married to and as soon as I get their 'Yes' I take her home as wife?

What about your own parents? I said BOTH parents. If your own parent no like the lady....you have work to do then. There no consent from BOTH parents then. You take it cool then, nothing should be between y'both.

striktlymi:

Na hin b say no body go marry for Africa be that ni!

You never read am for law of Moses ni?

Goshen360:

What about your own parents? I said BOTH parents. If your own parent no like the lady....you have work to do then. There no consent from BOTH parents then. You take it cool then, nothing should be between y'both.

But which parent did Adam and Eve bring?

Goshen360:

You never read am for law of Moses ni?

My Igbo brethren abeg no offence but Bro Goshen ladies are an Igbo man's investment o.

No dowry, no marriage! You know say umunna must get their own share too

Goshen360:

You want make I cain you ni. I said, under the law of Moses, in order to pay dowry, the man must lay with the woman. That's the pre-requisite for paying dowry. Otherwise, no dowry o....if no laying. Abi I wan buy market make I no see how product be ni.....

As I no be JEW how e go be na??................I be isrealite eh my elder brother??....lol......

Bro Goshen

another angle one needs to take seriously is the legal bit. we live in communities with their rules and regulation. what about court marriage?

okeyxyz:

Why would I be "dividing scripture" if I was an atheist? I'm 100% christian.

yes because satan once quoted the scripture to Jesus, how can a christian reason this way? Who taught you this waywardness? I wonder, bro you remember that song? -examine urself if you belong to Jesus', can you in all honesty teach ur children this error? Pls be shncere

striktlymi:

But which parent did Adam and Eve bring?

Sir, you're simply going back to my VERY point. See, we need to put everything the institutionalized church taught us into scriptural scrutiny. In the start, I said, IN THE EYES OF GOD, the two adults that 'consent' to marry are already married. Now, because God later gave institution to marriage that THEREFORE SHALL A MAN LEAVE HIS FATHER AND MOTHER....This where our parents comes in. First, it is in the EYES OF GOD when a man FINDS A WIFE, he finds a good thing. God was the witness or 'consent' to that of Adam. In our time today, it first God that we pledge our marriage vow before meaning....IN THE EYES OF GOD. Then from our parents. There's not 'formal' thing needed. When 'love making' happens in such consents, it is NOT illicit s.ex anymore because God already sees it as marriage and BOTH parents does also.

Goshen360:

You just made my point. I'm saying - IN THE EYES OF GOD, such people are already married.

We only bring in the consent of parents today because what followed in the commandment of God was - therefore shall a man leave his FATHER AND MOTHER....that's where parental consent comes in.

What say ye?

Mr_Anony:

But then I have not made any point for you and this is just a twisting of words.

We both know that there is a huge world of difference between parents agreeing to the marriage and them actually giving their daughter away. Be honest and don't try to twist the two.

@Goshen360 @Mr_Anony

"Ma koja mi, Olugbala, kin se orin abile kor" literally means "Don't go pass me, unnoticed, O Savior, isn't a folk song"

Genesis 2:24 - "Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother . . . " isn't it and has nothing to do with parental consent or parental approval

but rather it is part and/or a continuation of Genesis 2:23 and an observation statement.

Parental consent? What happens if they are orphans or were the only survivors, ship wrecked on an uninhabited and deserted island?

Pfft. SMH. Whatevers happened to John 4:24, eh?

Anyway, Genesis 2:24 was actually highlighting the fact that, what Adam saw and appreciated, the first time he set eyes on Eve was so INTENSE and STRONG

that it turned out to be the reason or force behind that which makes a man go without his or give up his father and mother and SPLIT or BREAK UP to his wife and they becoming one flesh

Since Adam, every man doing the right thing, at the right moment and with a or at right standing with God, ought to be looking for his wife.

The moment, he finds his wife, he has found a good thing and obtaineth favour from God.

- Rebecca sent Jacob out to find his wife.

# Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother to set up house, the women occasionally go back to mum & dad (e.g. Zipporah)

striktlymi:

My Igbo brethren abeg no offence but Bro Goshen ladies are an Igbo man's investment o.

No dowry, no marriage! You know say umunna must get their own share too

Hahahahaha. That's my point again - That's why we can't say 'love making' in such context is illicit s.ex because the requirement to pay dowry is for the man to have LAID with the woman. Otherwise, no dowry. So, if I must pay dowry, I must lay....it's NO FORNICATION, not illicit se.x. That's the whole point bro.

@Strklyme,
Leave Goshen. When he wants to marry, let him go to the family of the wife and ask for her hand in marriage, the next thing any typical parent will say is they want to see Goshen's people (may be except oyinbo).
When his parents come to ask, they will ask them to start planning of wedding, any wedding of the parents fancy.
Such parents hardly give 'consent' till the wedding day.

But I think Goshen is trying to save cost, he wants a situation where he goes to talk to the parents and immediately they say yes, oya take her dey go your house.
It may work though, turn the hands of the clock to year 1000BC.

Goshen, I can see you were just looking for talk talk. Make sure it is your wife you have sex with,not bethrothed, fiancee or girlfriend shikena.

striktlymi: Bro Goshen

another angle one needs to take seriously is the legal bit. we live in communities with their rules and regulation. what about court marriage?

Court marriage ONLY comes AFTER the 'original' consent we're talking about and as such, it is part of the 'formal ceremony'. Some churches will even say, if no church wedding, no position for church. That's rubbish!

@Goshen,
Please quote the scripture that says you must lay before you pay dowry in context o! By the way, the scripture must show where the 'laying' is acceptable.

Goshen360:

Sir, you're simply going back to my VERY point. See, we need to put everything the institutionalized church taught us into scriptural scrutiny. In the start, I said, IN THE EYES OF GOD, the two adults that 'consent' to marry are already married. Now, because God later gave institution to marriage that THEREFORE SHALL A MAN LEAVE HIS FATHER AND MOTHER....This where our parents comes in. First, it is in the EYES OF GOD when a man FINDS A WIFE, he finds a good thing. God was the witness or 'consent' to that of Adam. In our time today, it first God that we pledge our marriage vow before meaning....IN THE EYES OF GOD. Then from our parents. There's not 'formal' thing needed. When 'love making' happens in such consents, it is NOT illicit s.ex anymore because God already sees it as marriage and BOTH parents does also.

Well Goshen I will agree to the extent that God is the one who blesses a union! Ones the union is blessed by him it becomes binding on the two but really an informal consent from our parents can hardly qualify as God's approval. Even if it does how then are we certain? Remember that we don't live in the bible days anymore.

The way I see it, I am of the opinion that it should follow this process:

1) Parental consent -

this might involve some customs like paying dowries depending on the parents. If the parents don't want this then fine.

2) Blessing from the minister (Church):

We might frown at this but I think there is a need to be sure that God is involved in this. This really is not about institutions. Remember that sometimes when Jesus heals, he would ask some to see the priests then. This need not be elaborate! One's this is done, then we can be rest assured that the consent from our parents has been confirmed by God. This is just to seek God's blessings. After this the man can go home with the wife to perform the conjugal act.

3) Court:

We might also frown at this but give to Caeser what is his. The reality is that the woman can face some difficulties later in the marriage and might need protection from the court. There have been cases where after the death of the man, the kindred come to claim properties. This should be guarded against.

What do you think?

Snowwy: @Strklyme,
Leave Goshen. When he wants to marry, let him go to the family of the wife and ask for her hand in marriage, the next thing any typical parent will say is they want to see Goshen's people (may be except oyinbo).
When his parents come to ask, they will ask them to start planning of wedding, any wedding of the parents fancy.
Such parents hardly give 'consent' till the wedding day.

But I think Goshen is trying to save cost, he wants a situation where he goes to talk to the parents and immediately they say yes, oya take her dey go your house.
It may work though, turn the hands of the clock to year 1000BC.

Goshen, I can see you were just looking for talk talk. Make sure it is your wife you have sex with,not bethrothed, fiancee or girlfriend shikena.

God bless you brother. I love you for the highlight. That's the difference between 'illicit s.ex' we're talking about since. When someone just picks different girls and start yanshing (just because there's consent to have s.ex), that's abuse I'm talking. That's fornication which is defined as 'illicit se.x', jumping from one to another and testing/exercising one's manhood. That is WRONG and is SIN. But s.ex within the consent of marriage by both adults and parents is NOT 'illicit', it is approved by both parents and not unlawful neither is it fornication.

But in your first statement, not all parents will say people should start preparing for wedding o. I disagree there. If me and my spouse agree to just seek consent of both parents, and we no want 'formal' ceremony. The parents will respect our decision, don't you think so?

Snowwy: @Strklyme,
Leave Goshen. When he wants to marry, let him go to the family of the wife and ask for her hand in marriage, the next thing any typical parent will say is they want to see Goshen's people (may be except oyinbo).
When his parents come to ask, they will ask them to start planning of wedding, any wedding of the parents fancy.
Such parents hardly give 'consent' till the wedding day.

But I think Goshen is trying to save cost, he wants a situation where he goes to talk to the parents and immediately they say yes, oya take her dey go your house.
It may work though, turn the hands of the clock to year 1000BC.

Goshen, I can see you were just looking for talk talk. Make sure it is your wife you have sex with,not bethrothed, fiancee or girlfriend shikena.

I believe Gosen is married o! So Bros Goshen don free na people like me still dey d matter

@Goshen,
Sex is only approved in marriage NOT in CONSENT to marry. And the sex is to be with your wife NOT BETHROTHED, FIANCEE or GIRLFRIEND.

How long do I have to keep hammering that with scripture?

You initially said sex between two unmarried people is not SIN, are you saying you were wrong?


Whatever the parents decide is fine, I am just telling you what is obtainable. The parents are to give their daughter's hand to you in marriage. Court wedding makes it legal by national law, church wedding is also very good for those who intend to take that route so please do not think I am against it. It is just not a must do.

Snowwy: @Goshen,
Sex is only approved in marriage NOT in CONSENT to marry. And the sex is to be with your wife NOT BETHROTHED!, or FIANCEE or GIRLFRIEND.
How long do I have to keep hammering that with scripture?

You initially said sex between two unmarried people is not SIN, are you saying you were wrong?


Whatever the parents decide is fine, I am just telling you what is obtainable.

I agree with you!

@Bold: Goshen said that in context!

Snowwy: @Goshen,
Sex is only approved in marriage NOT in CONSENT to marry. And the sex is to be with your wife NOT BETHROTHED!, or FIANCEE or GIRLFRIEND.
How long do I have to keep hammering that with scripture?

You initially said sex between two unmarried people is not SIN, are you saying you were wrong?


Whatever the parents decide is fine, I am just telling you what is obtainable.

To the highlight above, NO SIR. You're wrong. I'm not for law as you know BUT what is in the law of Moses, I will show you soon. The penalty for s.ex outside marriage or pre-marital sex is to pay dowry. So, if I don't have s.ex, do I still need to pay dowry to be considered married? I need to work you through rigorously tonight I'm preparing the scriptures. I will quote it soon.

striktlymi:

I believe Gosen is married o! So Bros Goshen don free na people like me still dey d matter

Goshen360:

NO SIR. You're wrong. I'm not for law as you know BUT what is in the law of Moses, I will show you soon. The penalty for s.ex outside marriage or pre-marital sex is to pay dowry. So, if I don't have s.ex, do I still need to pay dowry to be considered married? I need to work you through rigorously tonight I'm preparing the scriptures. I will quote it soon.

I am waiting for the scripture, I know it already but I will advise you to be sure you think very hard before you quote it as I am waiting for you.
You said the dowry was a penalty, penalty for doing what?
You are threading on dangerous ground o.

Goshen360:

NO SIR. You're wrong. I'm not for law as you know BUT what is in the law of Moses, I will show you soon. The penalty for s.ex outside marriage or pre-marital sex is to pay dowry. So, if I don't have s.ex, do I still need to pay dowry to be considered married? I need to work through tonight I'm preparing the scriptures. I will quote it soon.

My view about dowry is really not about what is in the scriptures. The reality on ground is that for those who plan to marry in Nigeria, you most likely will not see anyone who is willing to overlook this dowry ish.

It really has little or nothing to do with scriptures actually but what the lady's parents want. In some cultures, the dowry is as low as =N=300. For almost every parent in Naija, no dowry no consent.

@ Snowwy,

And if a man entice a maid that is not betrothed, and lie with her, he shall surely endow her to be his wife. If her father utterly refuse to give her unto him, he shall pay money according to the dowry of virgins. Exodus 22:16-17

Here you have it. Even I was even mistaking - even the dowry only comes when the father utterly refused. If the father agree, then no dowry and yet, there's pre-marital sex. What do you have to say?

Snowwy:

I am waiting for the scripture, I know it already but I will advise you to be sure you think very hard before you quote it as I am waiting for you.
You said the dowry was a penalty, penalty for doing what?
You are threading on dangerous ground o.

For having pre-marital sex

Goshen360: @ Snowwy,

And if a man entice a maid that is not betrothed, and lie with her, he shall surely endow her to be his wife. If her father utterly refuse to give her unto him, he shall pay money according to the dowry of virgins. Exodus 22:16-17

Here you have it. Even I was even mistaking - even the dowry only comes when the father utterly refused. If the father agree, then no dowry and yet, there's pre-marital sex. What do you have to say?

Are we now subject to the law of the old testament?

okeyxyz:

LUST is not used as s.ex between unmarried man and woman. It'd help if you researched your bible dictionaries before assuming the meanings you'd always used are still valid.

You said lust meant possession and not sexual desire, I showed you a verse from your favourite NASB that cannot possibly mean possession of property. I also showed you a word "sensuality" that literally means lust in a sexual way. Yet you are denying and dancing around. I think you are trying way too hard to excuse your sin.

striktlymi:

Are we now subject to the law of the old testament?

So na now una/we no dey under the law abi .....if I dey shout say Christians no dey under the law una go dey talk. Ohh, Okay, we're NOT under the law but we don't have anything said about dowry and requirements for dowry in the NT either. So do we leave out dowry then and just take our wife..... You're gradually moving towards my point o

okeyxyz:

Biblical proof?
I can show you all the proofs you want but you still may not buy it. Bible understanding requires "wisdom" to decode it. Wisdom is the key to unlocking the secrets of scripture. Surely there was a reason Jesus spoke in parables rather than literal impressions. Don't you think he was deliberately hiding some things? Why were so many messages of the old testament treated as allegories? What I give you is wisdom and the interpretation of these matters.

Have you ever considered why Jesus was born without s.ex?

I would really be interested in this so-called proof. I am always wary of those who claim "biblical wisdom" because it is usually a cloak for heresy. Even Sign Fireman as well as every other fly by night conman will tell you that what he is doing is "biblical wisdom"