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Thirteen Reasons Why The Doctrine Of Original Sin Is False - Religion - Nairaland

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Thirteen Reasons Why The Doctrine Of Original Sin Is False by Nobody: 11:25pm On Feb 07, 2013
The doctrine of original sin is false because:

1. It makes sin a misfortune and a calamity rather than a crime.

2. It makes the sinner deserve pity and compassion rather than blame for his sins.

3. It excuses the sinner.

4. It makes God responsible for sin.

5. It dishonors God. It makes him arbitrary, cruel, and unjust.

6. It causes ministers to wink at and excuse sin.

7. It begets complacency and a low standard of religion among Christians.

8. It is a stumbling-block to the unsaved.

9. It makes Jesus a sinner or it must deny his humanity.

10. It contradicts the Bible.

11. It "adds to" and "takes from" the Bible. God warns against this in Deut. 4:2 and Rev. 22:18, 19.

12. It begets false doctrines and false interpretations of the Scriptures.

13. It is ridiculous, absurd, and unreasonable. It contradicts the necessary and irresistible affirmations of every man's consciousness and reason, which is something that no true doctrine of the Word of God could do.


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Re: Thirteen Reasons Why The Doctrine Of Original Sin Is False by Javanian: 12:05am On Feb 08, 2013
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Re: Thirteen Reasons Why The Doctrine Of Original Sin Is False by Nobody: 12:19am On Feb 08, 2013
Javanian: @op


Ask your Flying Sphagetti Monster , invented by your white masters grin
Re: Thirteen Reasons Why The Doctrine Of Original Sin Is False by Javanian: 12:22am On Feb 08, 2013
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2 Likes

Re: Thirteen Reasons Why The Doctrine Of Original Sin Is False by cyber999: 6:04am On Feb 08, 2013
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Re: Thirteen Reasons Why The Doctrine Of Original Sin Is False by Jeel: 7:12am On Feb 08, 2013
Javanian,the Holy Spirit exists and he is real and you can know him personaly.
Re: Thirteen Reasons Why The Doctrine Of Original Sin Is False by Javanian: 9:39am On Feb 08, 2013
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Re: Thirteen Reasons Why The Doctrine Of Original Sin Is False by dokie: 11:05am On Apr 10, 2013
[quote author=frosbel][/quote]

oga, what sin was david talking about in psalm 51 verse 5?. i appeal just answer it simply.
Re: Thirteen Reasons Why The Doctrine Of Original Sin Is False by honeychild(f): 11:25am On Apr 10, 2013
@ frosbel:

Please what do you mean by 'original sin'? You need to define the doctrine before we start to discuss it.
Re: Thirteen Reasons Why The Doctrine Of Original Sin Is False by Nobody: 11:47am On Apr 10, 2013
honeychild: @ frosbel:

Please what do you mean by 'original sin'? You need to define the doctrine before we start to discuss it.

Sorry a little busy right now , we can discuss later in the evening.

For now, if you have a few minutes you can read this introduction below and follow link for more info. ( edited ).


Are We Born Sinners?

So you believe all men are born sinners? That is the foundation from which you build all your other doctrines. Rejoice, because you have plenty of company. This doctrine is the common thread among all the groups such as Jehovah’s Witnesses ( Pending Review ), the Catholic Church, and Calvinists. It is the common ground for evolutionists and Christians who believe it. It was a major factor in many of Sigmund Freud’s misguided ideas that have done so much to guide the world away from God and his Word. The world uses the idea of original sin as a basis for the excuses and explanations for evil and excess. It is the best excuse men have ever come up with for their sin. It has done more to encourage men to continue in sin than any idea ever conceived.

The Jehovah’s Witnesses ( Pending Review ) are famous for not allowing blood transfusions. The reason is because they believe sin is in the blood and will be transferred to them if they take someone else’s blood. The Catholic Church baptizes infants because they believe they are born guilty of Adam’s sin and will go to hell if they die without having those sins washed away by baptism. All of Calvinism is pretty much summed up in one word – “inability” and according to their logic, it is a result of being born sinful. Take away the doctrine of original sin and Calvinism has no foundation for its major doctrines. We are hearing from the humanistic world now that sodomites were “born that way.” Drunkards were “born that way.” Now we are hearing the same explanation for people who are fat, or who are thieves, or child molesters, or perverts, and on and on. Recently there was an article in the news proclaiming that the tendency to be religious is also a result of your genetic makeup. In other words, you inherit that trait physically from your parents and therefore you can’t help it if you are religious or not. That ought to make the Calvinists happy – the humanists believe just like they do!

Therefore, original sin is the common ground for humanists, evolutionists, psychiatrists, and most modern denominations of Christianity. They all believe that the physical body is the source of all the problems. You are what you are because of your genetic makeup. You do what you do because you are preprogrammed from conception.

Of all the damnable, deceitful, dirty lies that devil has deceived mankind with through the years, the doctrine of original sin must be his masterpiece! It has ruined more souls, destroyed more churches, put out more fires of revival, and quenched the working of the Holy Spirit more than any other doctrine that has ever entered the minds of men. It has undermined the true gospel message and rendered it impotent. It has turned the reality of salvation through Christ into a mere form of religion and the multitudes have embraced it. It has made the church and its message a mockery before the world.

It is illogical and unscriptural! It is unthinkable! It is amazing that men of sound minds could swallow such a load of deceit and nonsense! It is obvious that this is the work of the great deceiver. It is also evidence that sin truly does cause depravity in man. Anyone honest person who knows anything about the Bible and who hasn’t been exposed to this horrendous doctrine automatically rejects it when they hear it for the first time. It is so preposterous that even a child will reject it. The very idea that newborn infants are guilty sinners while they have no knowledge of good and evil and no ability to reason or make choices flies in the face of the very nature of every person on earth – saved or lost! That a just God will cast these infants into hell if they die is an abomination to every sensible human being! There really are those who preach such nonsense, but you can rest assured that if they preached this at the funeral of an infant, there would not be one single person there who would believe it, no matter how many doctrinal books they lay out to prove it.

This perverted doctrine denies the justice of God. It removes the responsibility for sin from the sinner, but worse than that, it places that responsibility on God himself. What blasphemy! It confuses the definition of sin and presents it as something completely different than it is in reality. It is an outright lie because it teaches that sin is a substance passed through the genes, and particularly, the blood of our physical bodies. It makes sin a NATURAL thing and it certainly is NOT. God did not create man to sin, so it is completely UN-NATURAL. This can be easily understood by the natural barriers that God gave us to protect us from sin. Every sin is most difficult the first time we do it, after that it gets easier each time. For example, any kind of addiction, from tobacco, to drugs, to booze, is something you have to work at in order to develop. Your body resists these things naturally. Think of someone tasting hard whiskey for the first time. They will almost choke. Think of someone inhaling a big puff off a cigarette for the first time. He coughs, and gags, and sometimes gets physically sick. But if you do it again, and again, you will eventually overcome that natural resistance and truly develop an un-natural desire for something. That desire is not what God created you with, but it is of your own making. Sin is anything but natural – it is completely un-natural.

This hellish idea makes God the author of sin. Only the devil himself is mean enough to come up with an idea like that and make it acceptable to men who claim to love and serve God. If you are born sinful then it is of God’s doing because He is your Creator! Who doesn’t believe that? Your countenance, the color of your eyes, the color of your hair, your smile, are all designed by God himself. If you are born sinful then it is also of his doing. You can’t deny the fact that this ungodly doctrine lays the blame for sin at the feet of God himself! That alone should make you back up and think about it! That alone should make you question what you’ve been taught about this matter! If you believe this doctrine you are charging God Almighty with the sin of all mankind. You are telling Him that He is to blame for every dirty deed you have ever done and every time you have yielded to your lusts and did as you pleased against his law.

This doctrine hatched in hell has produced plenty of offspring. Why do you suppose the Catholics had to come up with the doctrine of the Immaculate Conception? The doctrine of original sin had them in a tight place. They couldn’t answer the questions about how Jesus could be born of an earthly mother and yet have a sinful nature. The only way they could do this without trashing the doctrine of original sin was to make Mary sinless, also. Now that’s a pretty difficult task if it has to be based on the Bible because the Bible plainly says that Mary went and offered her sin offerings after the birth of Christ just as she was supposed to do. They were only able to do it because they do not believe the Bible is the final authority – they believe the Catholic Church is.


http://www.midwaybiblebaptistchurch.com/prov-thot/Miller/are_we_born_sinners.htm
Re: Thirteen Reasons Why The Doctrine Of Original Sin Is False by Nobody: 12:21pm On Apr 10, 2013
@ frosbel,do u know Charles G. Finney? He was a 19th century American Presbytarian/Congregational evangelist who fiercely opposed the doctrine of original sin.Many christians only know him as a great revivalist,but he was infact also a pelagian.
Re: Thirteen Reasons Why The Doctrine Of Original Sin Is False by Nobody: 12:28pm On Apr 10, 2013
Beretta92: @ frosbel,do u know Charles G. Finney? He was a 19th century American Presbytarian/Congregational evangelist who fiercely opposed the doctrine of original sin.Many christians only know him as a great revivalist,but he was infact also a pelagian.

Sure, I have a a volume of one his works , he is one of my mentors in the faith, though I do not agree with a very few of his positions.
Re: Thirteen Reasons Why The Doctrine Of Original Sin Is False by ichuka(m): 12:32pm On Apr 10, 2013
as by one man's disobedience many were made SINNERs by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous..Romans5:19.
We are all Sinners by birth.
We are Sinners not because we sin,but we sin because we are Sinner.
Why are we Sinners by birth?..its because we are born of natual descent,of the will of a man and of blood..John1:13.
So OP,if your definition of original Sin is term Sinners by birth then the doctrine is very correct.

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Re: Thirteen Reasons Why The Doctrine Of Original Sin Is False by Nobody: 12:35pm On Apr 10, 2013
i.chuka:
as by one man's disobedience many were made SINNERs by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous..Romans5:19.
We are all Sinners by birth.
We are Sinners not because we sin,but we sin because we are Sinner.
Why are we Sinners by birth?..its because we are born of natual descent,of the will of a man and of blood..John1:13.
So OP,if your definition of original Sin is term Sinners by birth then the doctrine is very correct.

This dangerous doctrine , latches onto the false once saved always saved lie from hell.


Read this :
"And the little ones that you said would be taken captive, your children who do not yet know good from bad--they will enter the land. I will give it to them and they will take possession of it." - Deuteronomy 1:39


^^^^

Children are born innocent not in SIN , it's in the bible.

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Re: Thirteen Reasons Why The Doctrine Of Original Sin Is False by ijawkid(m): 12:38pm On Apr 10, 2013
@frosbel the reason that was given from the pasted post is not the reason why JW's refuse blood transfusion.....the single and real reason for JW's refusal of blood transfusion is because abstinence from blood is a scriptural injunction.....the issue of original is not even connected to it...

I'm just trying to correct that error........
Re: Thirteen Reasons Why The Doctrine Of Original Sin Is False by dokie: 12:55pm On Apr 10, 2013
frosbel:

This dangerous doctrine , latches onto the false once saved always saved lie from hell.


Read this :
"And the little ones that you said would be taken captive, your children who do not yet know good from bad--they will enter the land. I will give it to them and they will take possession of it." - Deuteronomy 1:39


^^^^

Children are born innocent not in SIN , it's in the bible.

frosbel i asked you a simple question earlier which is what brought this thread to the front again.

i ask again:

abeg, what sin was david talking about in psalm 51 verse 5.
Re: Thirteen Reasons Why The Doctrine Of Original Sin Is False by Nobody: 12:55pm On Apr 10, 2013
ijawkid: @frosbel the reason that was given from the pasted post is not the reason why JW's refuse blood transfusion.....the single and real reason for JW's refusal of blood transfusion is because abstinence from blood is a scriptural injunction.....the issue of original is not even connected to it...

I'm just trying to correct that error........

Forgive this error, I will review and update.
Re: Thirteen Reasons Why The Doctrine Of Original Sin Is False by Nobody: 1:03pm On Apr 10, 2013
dokie:

frosbel i asked you a simple question earlier which is what brought this thread to the front again.

i ask again:

abeg, what sin was david talking about in psalm 51 verse 5.

In SIN my mother did conceive me :

He was born through a sinful mother into a sinful world. How could he be a sinner , when he did not know right from wrong smiley. Sin is an action not a state. smiley


Can you also explain :

"...The child will not share the guilt of the parent, nor will the parent share the guilt of the child..." - Ezekiel 18:20

" So then, each of us will give an account of ourselves to God." - Romans 14:12

" He will be eating curds and honey when he knows enough to reject the wrong and choose the right, 16 for before the boy knows enough to reject the wrong and choose the right, the land of the two kings you dread will be laid waste."- Isaiah 7:15-16

" and said, “Truly I say to you, unless you are converted and become like children, you will not enter the kingdom of heaven." - Matthew 18:3
Re: Thirteen Reasons Why The Doctrine Of Original Sin Is False by ichuka(m): 1:23pm On Apr 10, 2013
frosbel:

This dangerous doctrine , latches onto the false once saved always saved lie from hell.


Read this :
"And the little ones that you said would be taken captive, your children who do not yet know good from bad--they will enter the land. I will give it to them and they will take possession of it." - Deuteronomy 1:39


^^^^

Children are born innocent not in SIN , it's in the bible.
Lol
Brother,nobi me write d bible.
Romans5:19 says thruogh the disobedience of Adam that ALL(not some but All)became SINNERs.
We are all in Adam in the garden of Eden and we all approve of his disobedience.
If one sins he's a sinner that sin,if another decides not to commit sinful acts,he's merely a moral sinner.an innocent child is a sinner that's innocent.
Its not a matter of what one do or don't do'rather its an issue of source.
Let's say your surname is Obi.you are Obi because your dad and your grandad are Obi.Now if you decide to do good you are Obi that does good,if you decide to become a doctor,a priest,the president or a 419 you are still an Obi.nothing whatsoever can make you otherwise.
Why is that?..because you were born an Obi.since its by birth you became an Obi its only by death that you can be free from being an Obi.
That's the meaning of Romans5:19
Re: Thirteen Reasons Why The Doctrine Of Original Sin Is False by Goshen360(m): 1:23pm On Apr 10, 2013
@ Frosbel, this topic is interesting but unfortunately, I'm not chanced this season. I just come in and do one or two or three post generally on the forum. I'm busy now as per what I told you outside this forum...you grab?

But I will keep spying on this thread because I need to balance one scriptures quoted by i.chuka and the one I will quote below . . .it has troubled in the past. Take a look,

New International Version (©2011)
For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous. Romans 5:19

New International Version (©2011)
To be sure, sin was in the world before the law was given, but sin is not charged against anyone's account where there is no law. Romans 5:13


I only need answer, I'm into this thread yet like I said but the thread I think, is interesting. Now, if by Adam, all were MADE SINNERS and verse 13 says, the sin that Adam committed or other people, it was NOT charged against ANYONE'S account....that 'would' include Adam right? How then is verse 19 that we are made SINNERS if Adam's sin was not charged against him?

Well, I think I have an answer but just wanna hear your view cool
Re: Thirteen Reasons Why The Doctrine Of Original Sin Is False by Nobody: 1:24pm On Apr 10, 2013
i.chuka:

Lol
Brother,nobi me write d bible.
Romans5:19 says thruogh the disobedience of Adam that ALL(not some but All)became SINNERs.
We are all in Adam in the garden of Eden and we all approve of his disobedience.
If one sins he's a sinner that sin,if another decides not to commit sinful acts,he's merely a moral sinner.an innocent child is a sinner that's innocent.
Its not a matter of what one do or don't do'rather its an issue of source.
Let's say your surname is Obi.you are Obi because your dad and your grandad are Obi.Now if you decide to do good you are Obi that does good,if you decide to become a doctor,a priest,the president or a 419 you are still an Obi.nothing whatsoever can make you otherwise.
Why is that?..because you were born an Obi.since its by birth you became an Obi its only by death that you can be free from being an Obi.
That's the meaning of Romans5:19

Innocent sinner grin

We are more inclined to sin because of our fallen nature , does not mean we are sinners at birth.
Re: Thirteen Reasons Why The Doctrine Of Original Sin Is False by Goshen360(m): 1:26pm On Apr 10, 2013
^ You be yeye boi o grin grin Anyway, I'm off the thread for now. Return later if puzzle remained unsolved. grin
Re: Thirteen Reasons Why The Doctrine Of Original Sin Is False by PastorOluT(m): 1:46pm On Apr 10, 2013
@ op

I just need you to tell what sin Jesus died for?

Also the scriptures ichuka quoted, how do you explain it?

Answer this, then we discuss.
Re: Thirteen Reasons Why The Doctrine Of Original Sin Is False by Nobody: 1:57pm On Apr 10, 2013
^^^

Thanks for the question brother.

Subject to further research, this is my understanding :

MAN was created morally perfect and should have remained in this condition and received immortal life if only he obeyed GOD.

When MAN sinned, there was a consequence, this consequence was DEATH. Man was no more perfect his nature was now marred , he will now have to contend with sin and overcome it.

"If you do what is right, will you not be accepted? But if you do not do what is right, sin is crouching at your door; it desires to have you, but you must rule over it." - Genesis 4:7

Because of our fallen nature, we are inclined to SIN and this choice begins to manifest the moment we know what is right from wrong.

Jesus came to reverse this process in 2 ways :

1. Overcome sin and make an atonement for our sins to destroy the problem of SIN
2. Resurrection from death which is the cause of SIN, so that all who die in Christ will again live forever.


The issue of original sin , is that we are born sinners and therefore , through no fault of ours, we cannot help sinning, this is false.

We as adults have a moral responsibility to choose right from wrong, we must overcome temptation and be victorious to the end by trusting in the work of the cross and imbibing the grace of GOD.

A baby has no such knowledge and cannot therefore be called a sinner. Sin is an action , for example :

...Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness.........." - Galatians 5:19

Here Paul is fully aware that sin is a work , an act not a condition we are born into.
Re: Thirteen Reasons Why The Doctrine Of Original Sin Is False by ichuka(m): 2:01pm On Apr 10, 2013
frosbel:

Innocent sinner grin

We are more inclined to sin because of our fallen nature , does not mean we are sinners at birth.

Bro,why you dey laugh about the innocent sinner?
Is the innocent child born of the will of a man,and of blood with natural descent?(John1:13)then the child is a sinner even in the womb of the mother.
Re: Thirteen Reasons Why The Doctrine Of Original Sin Is False by Nobody: 2:03pm On Apr 10, 2013
i.chuka:

Bro,why you dey laugh about the innocent sinner?
Is the innocent child born of the will of a man,and of blood with natural descent?(John1:13)then the child is a sinner even in her mothers womb.

natural descent simply means through the normal process of human procreation.


can I ask you one question before we continue:

If a 6 month old baby dies 'in sin' , will he/she be sent to hell ?
Re: Thirteen Reasons Why The Doctrine Of Original Sin Is False by debosky(m): 2:07pm On Apr 10, 2013
@ frosbel is this your view or are you just posting the views of others for us to discuss/debate?

I think it's important to clarify your stand on this so folk know how to respond - either to you or simply just challenging the ideas presented.
Re: Thirteen Reasons Why The Doctrine Of Original Sin Is False by Nobody: 2:08pm On Apr 10, 2013
debosky: @ frosbel is this your view or are you just posting the views of others for us to discuss/debate?

I think it's important to clarify your stand on this so folk know how to respond - either to you or simply just challenging the ideas presented.


My view, hence my posting it here to discuss undecided smiley wink

I don't always have time to write up such articles , especially when there are ready made ones available for use.

Why reinvent the wheel ?
Re: Thirteen Reasons Why The Doctrine Of Original Sin Is False by debosky(m): 2:41pm On Apr 10, 2013
^^ No issues bro. I didn't say you needed to write up your own article, just wanted to know where you stood before responding. smiley
Re: Thirteen Reasons Why The Doctrine Of Original Sin Is False by dokie: 3:58pm On Apr 10, 2013
frosbel:

In SIN my mother did conceive me :

He was born through a sinful mother into a sinful world. How could he be a sinner , when he did not know right from wrong smiley. Sin is an action not a state. smiley


Can you also explain :

"...The child will not share the guilt of the parent, nor will the parent share the guilt of the child..." - Ezekiel 18:20

" So then, each of us will give an account of ourselves to God." - Romans 14:12

" He will be eating curds and honey when he knows enough to reject the wrong and choose the right, 16 for before the boy knows enough to reject the wrong and choose the right, the land of the two kings you dread will be laid waste."- Isaiah 7:15-16

" and said, “Truly I say to you, unless you are converted and become like children, you will not enter the kingdom of heaven." - Matthew 18:3

before i start explaining, why did you only pick up the second part of that verse? it is a complete verse i asked an explanation of not a part of a verse. the following are from various bible translations:

Surely I was sinful at birth, sinful from the time my mother conceived me. NIV

Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity, and in sin my mother conceived me. NKJV

Behold, I was shapen in iniquity, and in sin my mother conceived me.KJV

For I was born a sinner -, yes, from the moment my mother conceived me. New Living Translation.

Indeed I was born guilty, a sinner when my mother conceived me. New Revised Standard Version

Behold I was brought forth in iniquity, and in sin did my mother conceive me. Revised Standard Version

I have been out of step with you for a long time, in the wrong since before I was born. The Message Bible

I have been evil from the day I was born; from the time I was conceived I have been sinful. Good News Translation

Behold I was brought forth in (a state of) iniquity; my mother was sinful who conceived me (and I too am sinful) amplified version.

please explain.

and when romans 3:23 says all have sinned and have fallen short of God's glory, are children exempted from ALL?

At what point does someone become a human being? at conception, at birth or at death?
Re: Thirteen Reasons Why The Doctrine Of Original Sin Is False by Nobody: 4:05pm On Apr 10, 2013
^^^^

David was not born as a sinner, he was born with the inclination toward sin or with a sinful nature. However he had the free will to either obey his sinful nature which leads to death ,or through the grace of GOD , obey the commandments of GOD which is to walk after spirit and live.

However he was not a sinner until he made decisions to chose right from wrong. Sin is an act , a work and a dead one at that.


I have a small question for you, if a baby dies without baptism, where does it go to ? smiley
Re: Thirteen Reasons Why The Doctrine Of Original Sin Is False by dokie: 4:59pm On Apr 10, 2013
frosbel: ^^^^

David was not born as a sinner, he was born with the inclination toward sin or with a sinful nature. However he had the free will to either obey his sinful nature which leads to death ,or through the grace of GOD , obey the commandments of GOD which is to walk after spirit and live.

However he was not a sinner until he made decisions to chose right from wrong. Sin is an act , a work and a dead one at that.


I have a small question for you, if a baby dies without baptism, where does it go to ? smiley

you are the one who claims the bible is your only source of teaching and here you are intentionaly refusing to explain a scriptural verse, or better still blatantly refusing to accept what scripture is very clear on, rather you chose to drive your thoughts down the minds of people, and you wonder why i say you are a captive of the devil? the Holy Spirit says david was a sinner right fron his mothers womb, brought forth inside iniquity, not even at the point of birth but at the point of conception, and you frosbel says david was not born a sinner. this is how you have continually avoided the clear truths in the bible, and misrepresented others to your own ruin.

now you that have rejected a clear verse of scripture, are now asking me where babies who die without being baptized go to so that i can quote the cathecism ofbthe carholic church on it so that you can divert attention from your blatant rejection of the scripture which you some much hold dear.

frosbel, tell me what that scripture means and answer the other questions i asked.

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