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"Stop Giving Offerings In Redeemed Churches If....." - Pastor Adeboye / Tithes And Offerings Are Eternal Principles / Give Your 'Tithes' And Offerings To The Less Fortunate In Church (2) (3) (4)

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Re: Tithes And Offerings by nora544: 11:40pm On Sep 20, 2014
TITHING—HIGHWAY ROBBERY OF THE 21st CENTURY

The Church conception of the tithe is totally unbiblical. Just how much do people or their ministers know about God’s teachings on tithing?

Let us look at what the Lord says about tithes:

It was the ministers - the Levitic priests - that God blamed for defrauding Him, not the tithe payers themselves.

Malachi 3:7-9 “Even from the days of your fathers ye are gone away from mine ordinances, and have not kept them…..But ye said, Wherein shall we return? Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, Wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings. Ye are curse with a curse: for ye have robbed me, even this whole nation.” KJV

Contrary to popular misconception, the Scriptures do not show Abraham tithed on a regular basis from his personal property or livestock. He gave one tithe only, there is no evidence that he ever tithed again.

Genesis14:17-20 “And the King of Sodom went out to meet him…And Melchizedek….was the priest of the most high God. And he blessed him, and said, Blessed be Abram of the most high God…And blessed be the most high God…And he gave him tithes of all.” KJV

Abram gave not wheat, corn, wine or cattle from his own possessions, but rather booty taken from conquered nations. Abram, later Abraham, never tithed on a regular basis on his own personal possessions.

God did not tell Jacob that if he tithed, He would bless him, but rather Jacob told God that if He blessed him first, Jacob would give God a tithe. The way Jacob tithed, chances are high that no ministers will even quote the next verse, yet preach a sermon on it:

Genesis 28:20-22 “And Jacob vowed a vow, saying, If God will be with me, and will keep me in this way that I go, and will give me bread to eat, and raiment to put on…then shall the Lord be my God…and of all that thou shalt give me I will surely give the tenth unto thee.” KJV

This really contradicts 99% of all sermons I heard on tithing. This is the very first verse of the Bible that gives an account of someone giving 1/10 or tithe of his personal belongings. God honoured Jacob’s proposition and furthermore God continued to honour this same principle of tithing all through Israel’s history. This example proves that God does not expect a tithe until He blessed the tithe payer first.

How did Jacob tithe to God?

Deuteronomy12:6-7 “And thither ye shall bring your burnt offerings, and your sacrifices, and your tithes, and heave offerings of your hand, and your vows, and your freewill offerings, and the firstlings of your herds and of your flocks: And there ye shall eat before the Lord your God, and ye shall rejoice in all that ye put your hand unto, ye and your household, wherein the Lord thy God hath blessed thee.” KJV
Leviticus 27:30-32 “And all the tithe of the land, whether of the seed of the land, or of the fruit of the tree, is the Lord’s: it is holy unto the Lord…….And concerning the tithe of the herd, or the flock, even of whatsoever passeth under the rod, the tenth shall be holy unto the Lord.” KJV

Verse 32 exposes another lie of modern preachers. It was not the first tenth, but rather the tenth tenth that belonged to the Lord; contrary to every minister I have heard who insists that the first tenth always belongs to the Lord. Unscriptural, untrue.

The tithes were given to the Levitic Priest.

Numbers 18:24-28 “But the tithes of the children of Israel, which they offer as an heave offering unto the Lord, I have given to the Levites to inherit…And the Lord spake unto Moses, saying, Thus speak unto the Levites, and say unto them, When ye take of the children of Israel the tithes which I have given you from them for your inheritance, then ye shall offer up an heave offering of it to the Lord, even a tenth part of the tithe…..Thus ye also shall offer an heave offering unto the Lord of all your tithes which ye receive of the children of Israel; and ye shall give thereof the Lord’s heave offering to Aaron the priest.” KJV

Only the Levitic priests could collect tithes at the temple, therefore everyone collecting a tithe today is a CHARLATAN and a FAKE. If one cannot trace back his genealogy generation by generation with any lapses to the family of Aaron, he is not and cannot be a priest authorised by God to collect tithes. All the Bible scholars know that when the temple ceased, the priesthood officiating at the temple ceased.

Jesus Christ did not support His ministry through tithes, He told His apostles NOT to take money from any source when He sent them to preach the Gospel.

Matthew 10: 8-9 “…freely ye have received, freely give. Provide neither gold, nor silver, nor brass in your purses,” KJV
Mark 6:8 “And (Jesus) commanded them that they should take nothing for their journey, save a staff only; no scrip, no bread, no money in their purse:” KJV
Luke 9: 3 “And He (Jesus) said unto them. Take nothing for your journey, neither staves, nor scrip, neither bread, neither money, neither have two coats apiece.” KJV

Only Levites could collect tithes. Christian pastors are not “Priests of Levi”. They can accept freewill offerings, they dare not collect tithes, it is a sin for anyone to exact “tithe money” from anyone.

If a poor farmer in ancient Israel did not have an increase in his harvest, he was not required to pay a tithe at all.

Paul the apostle laboured with his own hands for substance, yet he never taught on tithing.
The priests—Levites—were not to live a life of worldly splendour above even the king. The tithe consisted of things like wheat, corn and oil, not huge sums of money.
That the first tenth belongs to the Lord is NOT a scriptural statement or principle. God does not require the first tenth, but the tenth tenth.
In the history of the world, God almighty has never authorized any man or organisation for any religious purposes, to collect ten percent of another man wages,

How then, under the New Covenant, does a believer give a tenth when he is supposed to give his all?
Romans 6:13 “…yield yourselves unto God,…and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.” KJV

To a priesthood that does not exist, but now he himself is part of priesthood.
1 Peter 2:9 “But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of Him who hath called you out of the darkness into His marvellous light.” KJV

At a temple that does not exist:
Matthew 24:1-2 “And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and His disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple. And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? Verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.” KJV

Read all the 13 books Paul wrote to the Gentiles and find one verse where he instructed Gentiles to pay one cent of tithe money to anyone.

The teaching on the tithe is totally unscriptural, and even IF Christians were to tithe again, time and time again God told Israel they were to tithe on their increase from their abundance, not on the decrease of their lack.
Notice in Deuteronomy 14:22-29 that they were to tithe on the increase of the fields, and when because the place where God chose for them to eat their tithe was too far, they could sell their produce and carry that money to the place God chose and then buy for them anything they desired.

Israel never tithed from their poverty, but on their increase.

Contrary to all the deceiving Schambach, Hinn, Murdoch in the world, God never intended for people to tithe on what they did not have—their credit card.
Paul declares in 2 Corinthians 8:12 “For if there be first a willing mind, it is accepted according to that a man hath, and not according to that he hath not.” KJV

Most of our present preachers shamelessly hawk and huckster their religious doctrines, trinkets, and wares over the pulpit and the airwaves like peddlers in the name of God.
2 Corinthians 2:17 “For we are not as so many, peddling the word of God…” NKJV

The word “peddling” comes from the Greek word kapeleuo which means: To sell at retail with the insinuation of improper profit, either by overcharging or adulterating. Notice that Paul speaks about the majority.

Malachi 3:8-9 “Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, Wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings. Ye are cursed with a curse, for ye have robbed me, even this whole nation.” KJV
Is God telling us in these Scriptures that the 21st century Christians are robbing God by not giving 10% of their salaries, their hard earned money to these charlatans?
Is this the interpretation of this Scriptures? Surely Not.

Did you know that besides the Ten Commandments, there are 600 additional laws, precepts and commandments in the Scroll of the Law, the Old Covenant?
It is amazing that out of these 600+ laws modern preachers latch to only one of them. Let us see what God has to say to those ministers of the Gospel.
Malachi 1:6 “….O priests (tithe collecting ministers of the Gospel) that despise my name.” KJV

In the New Testament, when Christ discusses the topic of tithing, He does not mention the word money and it is with the words:
“Woe unto you scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For ye pay tithe of mint, and anise, and cumin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not the leave the other undone .” Matthew 23:23 KJV.

Historically and presently it is always the priests, the ministers, the shepherds who led God’s people astray.

Christ put little emphasis on tithing; He was more interested in spiritual things. Christ teaches us that we would fare better following the tribute collector who did not tithe. After all did he not return to his home “justified” (v.14)?
“The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican. I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess. And the Publican standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying , God be merciful to me a sinner.” Luke 18:11-13 KJV
Re: Tithes And Offerings by vooks: 12:38pm On Sep 23, 2014
Any idea why nobody from Pentecost till 400 years later thought of tithing?
Re: Tithes And Offerings by MarkMiwerds(m): 1:21pm On Sep 25, 2014
vooks: Any idea why nobody from Pentecost till 400 years later thought of tithing?
no Leer jets to fuel.

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Re: Tithes And Offerings by OLAADEGBU(m): 1:53pm On Sep 25, 2014
vooks:

Any idea why nobody from Pentecost till 400 years later thought of tithing?

Have you read the didache?
Re: Tithes And Offerings by vooks: 2:27pm On Sep 25, 2014
Not all of it, what part tackles tithing?
I gleaned this summary

The Didache (c.a. 100 A.D.), also called The Teaching of the Twelve Apostles, contains numerous references to giving. In 1:5–6, the text discusses the sharing of resources among Christians. The only possible allusion to tithing could be the statement that giving should be done “according to the commandment.” However, since 1:6 says, “Let your charitable gift sweat in your hands until you know to whom you are giving it,” it appears that the Mosaic law of tithing is not the referent since responsibility is placed within the giver as to the worthiness of the recipient. The Didache exhorts Christians to be givers rather than takers (1:5; 4:5–8; 5:2; 15:4). It contains one statement similar to statements in Acts 2 and 4 about communalism (4:cool. The text includes teaching similar to 1 Corinthians 9:14, that ministers of the gospel have a right to live from the gospel (11:6, 12; 13:1–2). 13:3–7 discusses how Christians are to give first fruits, stating that prophets are Christians’ high priest. However, it does not equate first fruits with a portion that is the (Divine) right of ministers of the gospel: “If, however, you have no prophet [minister of the gospel], give [the first fruits] to the poor” (13:4). Finally, 13:7 says to take the first fruits of “money and clothing and whatever [else] you own as you think best and give them according to the commandment.” A problem occurs when the text says both to give “as you think best” and to give “according to the commandment.” Some have said this is a contradiction. However, the phrase “as you think best” refers to the items that are considered liable to first fruits and “according to the commandment” probably refers to the instructions just given.
http://slaveoftheword..com/2006/03/tithing-in-ante-nicene-period-second.html
Did they skip something?
OLAADEGBU:

Have you read the didache?
Re: Tithes And Offerings by debraleey: 2:42pm On Sep 25, 2014
Hmm......well we are commanded to pay tithe n that is my stance! Stop looking for excuses. The only advice i will give is u go to a church where u bliv ur tithe will be used properly n not for someone satisfying himself or herself.......nigerians tho.......smh
Re: Tithes And Offerings by OLAADEGBU(m): 2:44pm On Sep 25, 2014
vooks:

Not all of it, what part tackles tithing?
I gleaned this summary

http://slaveoftheword..com/2006/03/tithing-in-ante-nicene-period-second.html
Did they skip something?

I don't know what you are looking for, at least it shows the principles of tithe and offering.
Re: Tithes And Offerings by OLAADEGBU(m): 2:46pm On Sep 25, 2014
debraleey:

Hmm......well we are commanded to pay tithe n that is my stance! Stop looking for excuses. The only advice i will give is u go to a church where u bliv ur tithe will be used properly n not for someone satisfying himself or herself.......nigerians tho.......smh

It could be said that Nigerians have their heads and hearts in their pockets. cheesy
Re: Tithes And Offerings by vooks: 2:50pm On Sep 25, 2014
No it doesn't
There is no mention of tithing and let alone giving the same to the pastors. It contains first fruits though. Ireneus, Tertullius and Justin Matyr all spoke of giving in the primitive church and no mention of tithe.

As a Christian, shouldn't you be bothered that tithing 10% of your income is a late-comer doctrine?
OLAADEGBU:

I don't know what you are looking for, at least it shows the principles of tithe and offering.
Re: Tithes And Offerings by OLAADEGBU(m): 2:54pm On Sep 25, 2014
vooks:

No it doesn't
There is no mention of tithing and let alone giving the same to the pastors. It contains first fruits though. Ireneus, Tertullius and Justin Matyr all spoke of giving in the primitive church and no mention of tithe.

As a Christian, shouldn't you be bothered that tithing 10% of your income is a late-comer doctrine?

You seem to be a late comer to this thread as this has been covered many pages back. Let me reproduce an article I posted addressing the issue at hand:

OLAADEGBU:

Will a man rob God? - R.C. Sproul

In the last book of the Old Testament, God spoke through the prophet Malachi. He raised a provocative question: “Will man rob God?” This is somewhat startling because it suggests something that on the surface would appear to be impossible. How could anybody rob God of anything? Does it mean that we storm the ramparts of heaven and break into the inner sanctum of the divine treasury and help ourselves to things that God alone possesses? Such a thing is manifestly impossible. The strongest robber in the world could never scale the heights of heaven and defile the possessions of an omnipotent God, and so the very idea of robbing God seems absurd. Yet God gives answer to this question immediately dispelling any absurdity connected with it. He explains pointedly how indeed it is possible for human creatures to be guilty of theft against God. He answers his question, “Will man rob God?” saying, “Yet you are robbing me.” The Israelite response is: “How have we robbed you?” To which God replies, “In your tithes and contributions” (3:8 ). God announces that to withhold the full measure of the tithe that He requires from His people is to be guilty of robbing God Himself. Because of this, He pronounces a curse upon the whole nation and commands them afresh to bring to Him all of the tithe.

When we think of tithing in Old Testament categories, we understand that the requirement involves returning to God the first fruits of one’s prosperity. We are required to give ten percent of our gross annual income or gain. If a shepherd’s flock produced ten new lambs, the requirement was that one of those lambs be offered to God. This offering is from the top. It is not an offering that is given after other expenses are met or after other taxes have been paid.

Recently, I read an article that gave an astonishing statistic that I find difficult to believe is accurate. It declared that of all of the people in America who identify themselves as evangelical Christians, only four percent of them return a tithe to God. If that statistic is accurate, it means that ninety-six percent of professing evangelical Christians regularly, systematically, habitually, and impenitently rob God of what belongs to Him. It also means that ninety-six percent of us are for this reason exposing ourselves to a divine curse upon our lives. Whether this percentage is accurate, one thing is certain — it is clear that the overwhelming majority of professing evangelical Christians do not tithe.

This immediately raises the question: “Why?” How is it possible that somebody who has given his life to Christ can withhold their financial gifts from Him? I have heard many excuses or explanations for this. The most common is the assertion that the tithe is part of the Old Testament law that has passed away with the coming of the New Testament. This statement is made routinely in spite of the complete lack of New Testament evidence for it. Nowhere in the New Testament does it teach us that the principle of the tithe has been abrogated. The New Testament does teach us, however, that the new covenant is superior to the old covenant. It is a covenant that gives more blessings to us than the old covenant did. It is a covenant that with its manifold blessings imposes greater responsibilities than the Old Testament did. If anything, the structure of the new covenant requires a greater commitment to financial stewardship before God than that which was required in the old covenant. That is to say, the starting point of Christian giving is the tithe. The tithe is not an ideal that only a few people reach but rather should be the base minimum from which we progress.

Church history also bears witness that many in the early church did not consider the tithe as having been abrogated in the new covenant. One of the earliest (turn of the second century) extrabiblical documents that survives to this day is the book of the Didache. The Didache gives practical instruction for Christian living. In the Didache, the principle of the giving of the first fruits or the tithe is mentioned as a basic responsibility for every Christian.

A second argument that people give to avoid the tithe is that they “cannot afford it.” What that statement really means is that they cannot pay their tithe and pay all the other expenses they have incurred. Again, in their minds the tithe is the last resort in the budget. Their giving to God is something that is at the bottom of their list of priorities. It’s a weak argument before God to say, “Lord, I didn’t tithe because I couldn’t afford it” — especially when we consider that the poorest among us has a higher standard of living than ninety-nine percent of the people who have ever walked on the face of the earth.

There are many more excuses that people give to avoid this responsibility, yet the New Testament tells us: “Let the thief no longer steal” (Eph. 2:28a). If we have been guilty of stealing from God in the past by withholding our tithe from Him, that behavior must cease immediately and give way to a resolution to begin tithing at once, no matter what it costs. It’s an interesting phenomenon in the life of the church, that people who in 1960 gave a dollar to the offering plate every week, still give that same dollar today. Everything else in their living costs has been adjusted to inflation except their giving. We also have to remind ourselves that if we give gifts to God, we cannot call them tithes if these gifts fall beneath the level of ten percent.

One of the sad realities of failure to tithe is that in so doing we not only are guilty of robbing God, but we also rob ourselves of the joy of giving and of the blessings that follow from it. I have yet to meet a person who tithes who has expressed to me regret for being one who tithes. On the contrary, I hear from them not a sense of judgment towards those who don’t give but rather a sense of compassion toward them. Frequently, I hear tithers saying, “People who don’t tithe just don’t know what they’re missing.” It is a cliché and a truism that you can’t out-give God. That statement has become a cliché because it is so true. In the text in Malachi, we find something exceedingly rare coming from the lips of God. Here God challenges His people to put Him to a test: “Put me to the test, says the Lord of hosts, if I will not open the windows of heaven for you and pour down for you a blessing until there is no more need” (3:10). Have you put God to that test? Have you tried Him to see if He will not open heaven itself and empty His own treasuries upon you? We need to stop robbing Him and thus receive from Him the blessing that He promises.

http://www.ligonier.org/learn/articles/will-man-rob-god/
Re: Tithes And Offerings by vooks: 3:02pm On Sep 25, 2014
A handy rebuttal of EVERY of that

http://www.tithing-russkelly.com/id172.html
Sample this

Sproul: When we think of tithing in Old Testament categories, we understand that the requirement involves returning to God the first fruits of one’s prosperity.

Kelly: Wrong. First-fruits and tithes were never the same thing in the OT. In Deuteronomy 26:1-4 firstfruits are very small token offerings which would fit into a small hand-carried basket. The first wave sheaf at Pentecost was but a single sheaf for the nation. And Nehemiah 10:35-38 makes it clear that first-fruits are not tithes. In 1st Timothy 5:8 Paul tells Christians to first buy medicine, food and essential shelter in order to avoid being worse than the heathen. It is wrong to delude poor struggling believers into giving the first of their Social Security and Medicaid checks to the church. Not even James Kennedy, Sproul's former companion, taught that.

Sproul: One of the earliest (turn of the second century) extrabiblical documents that survives to this day is the book of the Didache. The Didache gives practical instruction for Christian living. In the Didache, the principle of the giving of the first fruits or the tithe is mentioned as a basic responsibility for every Christian.


Kelly: [b]Firstfruits, yes. Tithes, never. [/b]It is amazing that Sproul omitted the names of Justin Martyr, Irenaeus, Clement of Alexander and Tertullian who opposed tithing. Paragraph XI says "if he (the evangelist) asks for money he is a false prophet. Paragraph XII says that evangelists who want to stay must get a job. Paragraph XIII says to give first-fruits to the prophet or to the poor. It is shameful to ignore Paragraphs XI and XII.


Ever read Didache yourself? Once again, Tithe is not first fruits

OLAADEGBU:

You seem to be a late comer to this thread as this has been covered many pages back. Let me reproduce an article I posted addressing the issue at hand:

Re: Tithes And Offerings by OLAADEGBU(m): 3:11pm On Sep 25, 2014
vooks:

A handy rebuttal of EVERY of that

http://www.tithing-russkelly.com/id172.html
Sample this



Ever read Didache yourself? Once again, Tithe is not first fruits


You don't need to scan the internet for rebuttals, Russel Kelly's partner in crime has been on this thread spreading the gospel according to his master. Just tell us whether you are one of his disciples so that I don't have to waste my time responding to those whose minds are already made up and don't want to be confused with the facts.
Re: Tithes And Offerings by vooks: 3:18pm On Sep 25, 2014
You regurgitated tired fickle arguments and I gladly returned favor

Your mind is made up to stick to man made traditions at ALL costs
Tithing expired along Pentecost

Once again, tithing is a late-comer doctrine akin to Assumption of Mary, it is legalistic no different from Galatian Error of returning to Torah
OLAADEGBU:

You don't need to scan the internet for rebuttals, Russel Kelly's partner in crime has been on this thread spreading the gospel according to his master. Just tell us whether you are one of his disciples so that I don't have to waste my time responding to those whose minds are already made up and don't want to be confused with the facts.
Re: Tithes And Offerings by OLAADEGBU(m): 6:17pm On Sep 25, 2014
vooks:

You regurgitated tired fickle arguments and I gladly returned favor

Your mind is made up to stick to man made traditions at ALL costs
Tithing expired along Pentecost

Once again, tithing is a late-comer doctrine akin to Assumption of Mary, it is legalistic no different from Galatian Error of returning to Torah

It is true that the love of money is the last thing to give way to the Lord. Those who give God the best will not become the last.
Re: Tithes And Offerings by MarkMiwerds(m): 7:12am On Sep 29, 2014
OLAADEGBU:

It is true that the love of money is the last thing to give way to the Lord. Those who give God the best will not become the last.
nice misquote of Scripture. Of course, that seems to be the norm for you.
Re: Tithes And Offerings by MarkMiwerds(m): 10:35am On Sep 29, 2014
Ever since Fredrick K. Price began Ever Increasing Faith Ministries in Inglewood, CA., the Church has taken the stance that tithing one's money is commanded by God in the Bible. Even this year, June 27, 2014 the wife of Price aired one of his earlier messages at EIFM in which he states emphatically that the Church is the storehouse and that God requires monetary tithes of the saints to be brought to the Church.

Less than three months later, in three separate sermons Price's son, Fredrick K. Price, Jr., delivered a message at the Faith Dome's EIFM TITLED "Tithing Under Grace". This message aired September 7th, 14th & 21st. In the message, Fred Jr. Covered every single verse in the Bible that dealt with tithing and revealed to the congregation that God never commanded tithes of money from anyone in His Holy Word.

While it is refreshing to see EIFM is being honest concerning the Biblical tithes after more than 30 years of guilting its members into giving, one has to wonder what happened that caused the shift to doctrinal truth? Are there more doctrinal shifts in the future at the Faith Dome? And what about the father/son clash in doctrine if Fred Sr. still believes tithing is a Biblical mandate? Will it cause bad blood between family members? Will those who have tithed faithfully for the last 30 years "lest they be cursed God-robbers" be angry now that they know the truth?

1 Like

Re: Tithes And Offerings by WinsomeX: 11:31am On Sep 29, 2014
^^^

MarkMiwerds pls can we have a link to those messages.
Re: Tithes And Offerings by MarkMiwerds(m): 12:19pm On Sep 29, 2014
WinsomeX: ^^^

MarkMiwerds pls can we have a link to those messages.
Here is the link for the page that has Fred Jr's three sermons.
http://www.faithdome.org/echurch/sundaysermons.html

And for the link for an early broadcast of his father teaching the tithe that was re-broadcast June 27th of this year, go here:
http://www.lightsource.com/ministry/ever-increasing-faith/video-player/tithes-and-offerings-1404-320472.html

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Re: Tithes And Offerings by Image123(m): 7:14pm On Sep 29, 2014
MarkMiwerds: nice misquote of Scripture. Of course, that seems to be the norm for you.
What is the correct quote Mark?
Re: Tithes And Offerings by MarkMiwerds(m): 7:41pm On Sep 29, 2014
Image123:
What is the correct quote Mark?
28 And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
29 And every one that hath forsaken houses, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my name's sake, shall receive an hundredfold, and shall inherit everlasting life.
30 But many that are first shall be last; and the last shall be first.

Says nothing of giving up best or worse.

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Re: Tithes And Offerings by Image123(m): 8:01pm On Sep 29, 2014
MarkMiwerds: 28 And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
29 And every one that hath forsaken houses, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my name's sake, shall receive an hundredfold, and shall inherit everlasting life.
30 But many that are first shall be last; and the last shall be first.

Says nothing of giving up best or worse.

wow, i for one never thought Olaa was quoting any Bible verse, not to talk of misquoting. It is an imperative fact that those who give God the best would not be last.
Re: Tithes And Offerings by debosky(m): 8:37pm On Sep 29, 2014
The truth will come out eventually - from being an adopted 'principle' to quoting the Didache which states that it is the RESPONSIBILITY of every Christian to pay tithes and first fruits eh?

Pray tell who were the specified recipients of the tithes and first fruits according to the Didache? The Levitical priesthood or someone else?

Why should we countenance something completely at odds with the teaching of the apostles? Where did Paul or Peter or John teach tithing/first fruits as a responsibility of Christians?

3 Likes

Re: Tithes And Offerings by OLAADEGBU(m): 2:22pm On Sep 30, 2014
Image123:

wow, i for one never thought Olaa was quoting any Bible verse, not to talk of misquoting. It is an imperative fact that those who give God the best would not be last.

He seems to be allergic to giving to God and this explains why he jumped the gun to accuse me of misquoting scriptures. shocked

Re: Tithes And Offerings by OLAADEGBU(m): 5:57pm On Sep 30, 2014
Question: "What is a church supposed to do with the offerings it receives?"

Answer: Every church receives some type of tithes or offerings. Be it via “passing the plate” or setting a box in the back of the sanctuary or some other collection method, a church needs funds to operate. How the church uses those funds is important, as the church has responsibilities to its members, to its surrounding community, and to God.

First, a church has a responsibility to its members. The very first church, the one begun in Jerusalem on the Day of Pentecost, took special pains to meet the practical needs of their members: “God’s grace was so powerfully at work in them all that there were no needy persons among them. For from time to time those who owned land or houses sold them, brought the money from the sales and put it at the apostles’ feet, and it was distributed to anyone who had need” (Acts 4:33–35). We see that the money was brought to the leaders of the church, who were responsible for the distribution of the money based on need. Food was also being distributed to the widows among them (Acts 6:1).

The apostles in Jerusalem, in affirming Paul’s ministry among the Gentiles, asked that he should “continue to remember the poor” (Galatians 2:10). So, charitable work to benefit the poor within the church should be part of a church’s budget. Later, Paul lays out some guidelines on who should receive aid from the church and who should depend on another source for their sustenance (1 Timothy 5:3–16).

Various local churches in the first century also took up offerings to help other churches in need. Specifically, the church in Jerusalem was suffering from persecution and a famine, and the church in Antioch pitched in to help (Acts 11:29). Paul later took love gifts from Galatia (1 Corinthians 16:1), Corinth (1 Corinthians 16:3), and Macedonia and Achaia (Romans 15:25–26) to Jerusalem. He was accompanied by emissaries from Berea, Thessalonica, Derbe, and the province of Asia (Acts 20:4).

Second, a church has a responsibility to its surrounding community. Outreach is necessary. “As we have opportunity, let us do good to all people, especially to those who belong to the family of believers” (Galatians 6:10). This verse sets the priority—God’s family first—but we are also to seek ways to “do good” to everyone. Of course, this must involve evangelism (Acts 1:8.) A healthy church should be sending out missionaries (see Acts 13:2–3) or at least supporting missionaries in various fields of service.

A church that loses its outward focus, as evidenced by where it spends its money, is showing signs of spiritual weakness. Church consultant and author Thom S. Rainer, in his book Autopsy of a Dead Church, states that one of the symptoms of a dying church is that the percentage of the budget for members’ needs keeps increasing, while the money earmarked for outreach decreases.

Third, a church has a responsibility to God. Our Lord knows His church (Revelation 2:2, 9, 13, 19), and He commands that His Word be preached (Romans 10:14; 2 Timothy 4:2) and that “the mystery of Christ” be proclaimed (Colossians 4:3). Delivering the gospel is job one. Anything that furthers that goal should be given priority, and paying the pastor is part of that goal. “The elders who direct the affairs of the church well are worthy of double honor, especially those whose work is preaching and teaching. For Scripture says, ‘Do not muzzle an ox while it is treading out the grain,’ and ‘The worker deserves his wages’” (1 Timothy 5:17–18.) Those who faithfully minister the Word of God should receive due compensation for their work (see also 1 Corinthians 9:11).

Wisdom regarding a church’s expenditures is necessary, and we should be praying for that wisdom (James 1:5). It is common for churches in Western society to have costly equipment inside even more costly buildings that require costly maintenance and are sure to need costly repairs. There is nothing sinful about a fine building or nicely kept grounds, and we have nothing against steeples or pipe organs or cappuccino bars or laser light shows. But we wonder sometimes if the money would be better spent supporting another missionary or aiding the poorer churches around the world.

The goal of the church should be to do the work of God in the world. And everything should be done to the glory of God (1 Corinthians 10:31). The early church “devoted themselves to the apostles’ teaching and to fellowship, to the breaking of bread and to prayer” (Acts 2:42). Perhaps these actions—spreading the Word, fellowshipping with one another, observing communion, and praying—should be a basic guide to how a church uses its offerings.

Read more: http://www.gotquestions.org/church-tithe.html#ixzz3Eop91vXV
Re: Tithes And Offerings by OLAADEGBU(m): 1:06am On Oct 04, 2014
Daily Manna
Friday 03, October 2014

Simply the Best

TEXT: LEVITICUS 22:17-25

"Ye shall offer at your own will a male without blemish, of the beeves, of the sheep, or of the goats" (Leviticus 22:19).

In a small village in one of the states in a country in Africa, a local government chairman went visiting. The poor villagers taxed themselves and presented him with a quality gift. The gesture surprised the visiting politician who there and then, promised to rehabilitate their roads that had been abandoned for years. This is what good gifts can achieve.

If earthly rulers are considered so deserving, what does the Ruler of the universe and the Creator of all things deserve? If the children of Israel had any difficulty figuring it out, the Lord Himself, in our text made it clear. “Ye shall offer at your own will…,” He demanded. There should be no coercion. Offerings to the Lord must spring from the bottom of the heart of the giver and that with no strings attached but with pure and godly motives.

Beyond that, God would not accept anything that had a blemish. Animals constituted the bulk of Israel’s items of sacrifice then. For an animal to be suitable for sacrifice to God, it must not be blind, lame, bruised, crushed, broken, cut or have skin disease. On the part of the offerer, this implied an overwhelming sense of honour to God and entailed painstaking search among his lot to fetch a most suitable animal.

The Christian believer is not obliged, today, to offer animal sacrifice to God - Christ Jesus had satisfied that demand as “a Lamb without blemish and without spot” (1 Peter 1:19). However, we are expected to offer to God spiritual sacrifices. In doing this, the same principles apply. We must offer to God wholeheartedly and that which is without blemish. We must remember that Ananias and Saphira were not punished for offering something but for offering a half-measure. God is not mocked. Your gifts to Him need be wholesome and entire.

Higher Everyday for Youths - Link: http://highereveryday.dclmhq.org/

Thought for the day: "The Giver deserves the best gift"

See more at:

1 Like

Re: Tithes And Offerings by MarkMiwerds(m): 10:40am On Oct 05, 2014
OLAADEGBU:
Daily Manna
Friday 03, October 2014

Simply the Best

TEXT: LEVITICUS 22:17-25

"Ye shall offer at your own will a male without blemish, of the beeves, of the sheep, or of the goats" (Leviticus 22:19).

In a small village in one of the states in a country in Africa, a local government chairman went visiting. The poor villagers taxed themselves and presented him with a quality gift. The gesture surprised the visiting politician who there and then, promised to rehabilitate their roads that had been abandoned for years. This is what good gifts can achieve.

If earthly rulers are considered so deserving, what does the Ruler of the universe and the Creator of all things deserve? If the children of Israel had any difficulty figuring it out, the Lord Himself, in our text made it clear. “Ye shall offer at your own will…,” He demanded. There should be no coercion. Offerings to the Lord must spring from the bottom of the heart of the giver and that with no strings attached but with pure and godly motives.

Beyond that, God would not accept anything that had a blemish. Animals constituted the bulk of Israel’s items of sacrifice then. For an animal to be suitable for sacrifice to God, it must not be blind, lame, bruised, crushed, broken, cut or have skin disease. On the part of the offerer, this implied an overwhelming sense of honour to God and entailed painstaking search among his lot to fetch a most suitable animal.

The Christian believer is not obliged, today, to offer animal sacrifice to God - Christ Jesus had satisfied that demand as “a Lamb without blemish and without spot” (1 Peter 1:19). However, we are expected to offer to God spiritual sacrifices. In doing this, the same principles apply. We must offer to God wholeheartedly and that which is without blemish. We must remember that Ananias and Saphira were not punished for offering something but for offering a half-measure. God is not mocked. Your gifts to Him need be wholesome and entire.

Higher Everyday for Youths - Link: http://highereveryday.dclmhq.org/

Thought for the day: "The Giver deserves the best gift"

See more at:
Ananias and Sapphira were punished for giving a half-measure? That's a new one on me.

First, the Bible does not tell us the percentage they kept back. Only that they kept back a "part". They part they kept could have been far less. It could have been far more. We are not told the amount or the percentage.

Second, the Bible does not say they were punished for keeping any of the price. It says they were punished for lying to the Holy Ghost.

1 Like

Re: Tithes And Offerings by OLAADEGBU(m): 5:09am On Oct 06, 2014
MarkMiwerds:


Ananias and Sapphira were punished for giving a half-measure? That's a new one on me.

First, the Bible does not tell us the percentage they kept back. Only that they kept back a "part". They part they kept could have been far less. It could have been far more. We are not told the amount or the percentage.

Second, the Bible does not say they were punished for keeping any of the price. It says they were punished for lying to the Holy Ghost.

The moral of the article is that we should offer to God wholeheartedly and that which is without blemish if your offering is to be accepted by God. cool
Re: Tithes And Offerings by MarkMiwerds(m): 8:28am On Oct 06, 2014
OLAADEGBU:


The moral of the article is that we should offer to God wholeheartedly and that which is without blemish if your offering is to be accepted by God. cool
if your message is to be accepted of God, it should be without blemish. God doesn't honour lies.

2 Likes

Re: Tithes And Offerings by OLAADEGBU(m): 6:10pm On Oct 08, 2014
MarkMiwerds:


if your message is to be accepted of God, it should be without blemish. God doesn't honour lies.

You should rather accept God's message instead of assuming the role of an adviser.

"Most people want to serve God, but only in an advisory position"
Re: Tithes And Offerings by MarkMiwerds(m): 11:27pm On Oct 09, 2014
OLAADEGBU:


You should rather accept God's message instead of assuming the role of an adviser.

i've already accepted God's message. It is contrary to yours.

1 Like

Re: Tithes And Offerings by OLAADEGBU(m): 11:38pm On Oct 09, 2014
MarkMiwerds:


i've already accepted God's message. It is contrary to yours.

Mammon's message is definitely different to my God's. cool

"No servant can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon" (Luke 16:13).
Re: Tithes And Offerings by MarkMiwerds(m): 6:26pm On Oct 10, 2014
OLAADEGBU:


Mammon's message is definitely different to my God's. cool

my God said His holy tithe was to go to Levites, widows, orphans and foreigners in Israel. Your god says tithe belongs in your Gentile organization.

My God said His holy tithe was agricultural. Your god requires mammon.

3 Likes

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