MarkMiwerds:


my God said His holy tithe was to go to Levites, widows, orphans and foreigners in Israel. Your god says tithe belongs in your Gentile organization.

My God said His holy tithe was agricultural. Your god requires mammon.

Who said this?

"Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the LORD of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it" (Malachi 3:10).

OLAADEGBU:


Who said this?

was not the Law still in effect at the time Malachi delivered that message? Yes, I believe it was.

And what did the Law say that God's holy tithe consisted of?

Leviticus 27:30 (KJV) 30 And all the tithe of the land, [whether] of the seed of the land, [or] of the fruit of the tree, [is] the LORD'S: [it is] holy unto the LORD.

Leviticus 27:31 (KJV) 31 And if a man will at all redeem [ought] of his tithes, he shall add thereto the fifth [part] thereof.

Leviticus 27:32 (KJV) 32 And concerning the tithe of the herd, or of the flock, [even] of whatsoever passeth under the rod, the tenth shall be holy unto the LORD.

Leviticus 27:33 (KJV) 33 He shall not search whether it be good or bad, neither shall he change it: and if he change it at all, then both it and the change thereof shall be holy; it shall not be redeemed.

Leviticus 27:34 (KJV) 34 These [are] the commandments, which the LORD commanded Moses for the children of Israel in mount Sinai.

Well, whatya know about that?... God said His holy tithe was agricultural. Not the mammon your god requires.

And in Hebrews...

Hebrews 7:5 (KJV) 5 And verily they that are of the sons of Levi, who receive the office of the priesthood, have a commandment to take tithes of the people according to the law, that is, of their brethren, though they come out of the loins of Abraham:

Hebrews 7:6 (KJV) 6 But he whose descent is not counted from them received tithes of Abraham, and blessed him that had the promises.

Hebrews 7:7 (KJV) 7 And without all contradiction the less is blessed of the better.

Hebrews 7:8 (KJV) 8 And here men that die receive tithes; but there he [receiveth them], of whom it is witnessed that he liveth.

Imagine that!... 1500 years later, and the tithe is still agricultural... According to the Law.

And no wonder,...

Deuteronomy 12:8 (KJV) 8 Ye shall not do after all [the things] that we do here this day, every man whatsoever [is] right in his own eyes.

Man could not tithe money. He was required to tithe what God said to tithe,... agricultural products. He could not do what seemed right in his own eyes.

Sorry, Olaadegbu... Your god has you doing something contrary to God's design.

MarkMiwerds:
was not the Law still in effect at the time Malachi delivered that message? Yes, I believe it was.

And what did the Law say that God's holy tithe consisted of?

Leviticus 27:30 (KJV) 30 And all the tithe of the land, [whether] of the seed of the land, [or] of the fruit of the tree, [is] the LORD'S: [it is] holy unto the LORD.

Leviticus 27:31 (KJV) 31 And if a man will at all redeem [ought] of his tithes, he shall add thereto the fifth [part] thereof.

Leviticus 27:32 (KJV) 32 And concerning the tithe of the herd, or of the flock, [even] of whatsoever passeth under the rod, the tenth shall be holy unto the LORD.

Leviticus 27:33 (KJV) 33 He shall not search whether it be good or bad, neither shall he change it: and if he change it at all, then both it and the change thereof shall be holy; it shall not be redeemed.

Leviticus 27:34 (KJV) 34 These [are] the commandments, which the LORD commanded Moses for the children of Israel in mount Sinai.

Well, whatya know about that?... God said His holy tithe was agricultural. Not the mammon your god requires.

And in Hebrews...

Hebrews 7:5 (KJV) 5 And verily they that are of the sons of Levi, who receive the office of the priesthood, have a commandment to take tithes of the people according to the law, that is, of their brethren, though they come out of the loins of Abraham:

Hebrews 7:6 (KJV) 6 But he whose descent is not counted from them received tithes of Abraham, and blessed him that had the promises.

Hebrews 7:7 (KJV) 7 And without all contradiction the less is blessed of the better.

Hebrews 7:8 (KJV) 8 And here men that die receive tithes; but there he [receiveth them], of whom it is witnessed that he liveth.

Imagine that!... 1500 years later, and the tithe is still agricultural... According to the Law.

And no wonder,...

Deuteronomy 12:8 (KJV) 8 Ye shall not do after all [the things] that we do here this day, every man whatsoever [is] right in his own eyes.

Man could not tithe money. He was required to tithe what God said to tithe,... agricultural products. He could not do what seemed right in his own eyes.

Sorry, Olaadegbu... Your god has you doing something contrary to God's design.

One may argue that God does not "require tithes" but the question yet would be: Does the same God "require" giving?

Bidam:
One may argue that God does not "require tithes" but the question yet would be: Does the same God "require" giving?

Stop shifting the post my friend. OLAADEGBU asked who said this and quoted Malachi 3, to legitimize tithing today. After his position has been sufficiently rebutted you now move to giving.

Why don't you remain on the tithe argument and let's see how far you can do it.

As far as I know, I am yet to meet one person who argues against tithing on this forum who also speaks against giving. And if you want to say that tithing and giving are the same thing, you are wrong. They are not.

Bidam:
One may argue that God does not "require tithes" but the question yet would be: Does the same God "require" giving?

1 John 3:17 (KJV) 17 But whoso hath this world's good, and seeth his brother have need, and shutteth up his bowels [of compassion] from him, how dwelleth the love of God in him?

1 John 3:18 (KJV) 18 My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth.

The Word of God reveals that if we do not have a compassionate, giving heart then we do not have a God-driven heart.

WinsomeX:


Stop shifting the post my friend. OLAADEGBU asked who said this and quoted Malachi 3, to legitimize tithing today. After his position has been sufficiently rebutted you now move to giving.

Why don't you remain on the tithe argument and let's see how far you can do it.

As far as I know, I am yet to meet one person who argues against tithing on this forum who also speaks against giving. And if you want to say that tithing and giving are the same thing, you are wrong. They are not.

stop rambling and answer the question.if you cannot kindly pass by.

MarkMiwerds:
1 John 3:17 (KJV) 17 But whoso hath this world's good, and seeth his brother have need, and shutteth up his bowels [of compassion] from him, how dwelleth the love of God in him?

1 John 3:18 (KJV) 18 My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth.

The Word of God reveals that if we do not have a compassionate, giving heart then we do not have a God-driven heart.

so do you give in your local. assembly or do u quote scriptures without applying the truth in them

Bidam:
so do you give in your local. assembly or do u quote scriptures without applying the truth in them

i have no local assembly. The last assembly I was a member of made sure of that.

As to my giving, when I see someone in need, and I have the means to meet that need, I give. Whether it's a neighbor in my community, or a beggar downtown as per 1 John 3:17.

Bidam:
One may argue that God does not "require tithes" but the question yet would be: Does the same God "require" giving?

I answered your question in my last post in the last paragraph but since you have comprehension trouble, I will come down to your level and break it down to ABC.

Does God "require" giving?

The answer is NO!

God doesn't "require" anything from us; rather he gave us his everything.

REQUIRE

verb

(requires, requiring; past and past participle required)
(obsolete)

To ask (someone) for something; to request. [14th-17th c.]

To demand, to insist upon (having); to call for authoritatively. [from 14th c.]

Naturally to demand (something) as indispensable; to need, to call for as necessary. [from 15th c.]

To demand of (someone) to do something. [from 18th c.]

God gave us all things in Christ. It's called grace. In response we live our lives for him. We love God, we love humanity. This is what compels our giving and not a certain requirement that presupposes law or a perquisite or a means to an end.

Bidam, as long as you see giving as a "requirement", you will never be delivered from the tithe bondage. The day you see giving as a response to grace, you will stop to tithe.

MarkMiwerds:


was not the Law still in effect at the time Malachi delivered that message? Yes, I believe it was.

And what did the Law say that God's holy tithe consisted of?

Leviticus 27:30 (KJV) 30 And all the tithe of the land, [whether] of the seed of the land, [or] of the fruit of the tree, [is] the LORD'S: [it is] holy unto the LORD.

Leviticus 27:31 (KJV) 31 And if a man will at all redeem [ought] of his tithes, he shall add thereto the fifth [part] thereof.

Leviticus 27:32 (KJV) 32 And concerning the tithe of the herd, or of the flock, [even] of whatsoever passeth under the rod, the tenth shall be holy unto the LORD.

Leviticus 27:33 (KJV) 33 He shall not search whether it be good or bad, neither shall he change it: and if he change it at all, then both it and the change thereof shall be holy; it shall not be redeemed.

Leviticus 27:34 (KJV) 34 These [are] the commandments, which the LORD commanded Moses for the children of Israel in mount Sinai.

Well, whatya know about that?... God said His holy tithe was agricultural. Not the mammon your god requires.

And in Hebrews...

Hebrews 7:5 (KJV) 5 And verily they that are of the sons of Levi, who receive the office of the priesthood, have a commandment to take tithes of the people according to the law, that is, of their brethren, though they come out of the loins of Abraham:

Hebrews 7:6 (KJV) 6 But he whose descent is not counted from them received tithes of Abraham, and blessed him that had the promises.

Hebrews 7:7 (KJV) 7 And without all contradiction the less is blessed of the better.

Hebrews 7:8 (KJV) 8 And here men that die receive tithes; but there he [receiveth them], of whom it is witnessed that he liveth.

Imagine that!... 1500 years later, and the tithe is still agricultural... According to the Law.

And no wonder,...

Deuteronomy 12:8 (KJV) 8 Ye shall not do after all [the things] that we do here this day, every man whatsoever [is] right in his own eyes.

Man could not tithe money. He was required to tithe what God said to tithe,... agricultural products. He could not do what seemed right in his own eyes.

Sorry, Olaadegbu... Your god has you doing something contrary to God's design.

The verse I quoted reveals the biblical formula God gave to Israel. Christians today will do well to learn this secret as they read the OT. The topic of this thread is tithes and offerings, which is essentially giving in the NT. Obedient Christians will do well to learn from the indictment received by Israel when they stopped giving their tithes and offerings. Our Lord Jesus Christ did not come to abolish the Law He came to fulfil it. He said:

"Give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, shaken together, and running over, shall men give into your bosom. For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to you again" (Luke 6:38.)

WinsomeX:


Stop shifting the post my friend. OLAADEGBU asked who said this and quoted Malachi 3, to legitimize tithing today. After his position has been sufficiently rebutted you now move to giving.

Why don't you remain on the tithe argument and let's see how far you can do it.

As far as I know, I am yet to meet one person who argues against tithing on this forum who also speaks against giving. And if you want to say that tithing and giving are the same thing, you are wrong. They are not.

Can't you read the title of the thread before posting? Let me remind you again, the topic is tithes and offerings. Tithes is just one of the means of giving but you anti tithers are fixated on tithing to the extent that you can't see that it is also linked with offerings. Why do you kick against tithes but hypocritically collect and give offerings? If you detest tithes then you should detest offerings, don't strain at a gnat but conveniently swallow a carmel.

"Ye blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a carmel" (Matthew 23:24).

MarkMiwerds:


1 John 3:17 (KJV) 17 But whoso hath this world's good, and seeth his brother have need, and shutteth up his bowels [of compassion] from him, how dwelleth the love of God in him?

1 John 3:18 (KJV) 18 My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth.

The Word of God reveals that if we do not have a compassionate, giving heart then we do not have a God-driven heart.

Does this not show your hypocrisy? How do you claim to have a God driven giving heart and then spend your lifetime teaching people not to give to God?

Jesus said to your likes again:

"Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess" (Matthew 23:25).

MarkMiwerds:


i have no local assembly. The last assembly I was a member of made sure of that.

As to my giving, when I see someone in need, and I have the means to meet that need, I give. Whether it's a neighbor in my community, or a beggar downtown as per 1 John 3:17.

This explains your predicament. Nothing stops you from giving without loving, but you cannot say that you love without giving.

If you don't fellowship, you are not among the fellow sheep.

WinsomeX:


I answered your question in my last post in the last paragraph but since you have comprehension trouble, I will come down to your level and break it down to ABC.

Does God "require" giving?

The answer is NO!

God doesn't "require" anything from us; rather he gave us his everything.

REQUIRE

verb

(requires, requiring; past and past participle required)
(obsolete)

To ask (someone) for something; to request. [14th-17th c.]

To demand, to insist upon (having); to call for authoritatively. [from 14th c.]

Naturally to demand (something) as indispensable; to need, to call for as necessary. [from 15th c.]

To demand of (someone) to do something. [from 18th c.]

God gave us all things in Christ. It's called grace. In response we live our lives for him. We love God, we love humanity. This is what compels our giving and not a certain requirement that presupposes law or a perquisite or a means to an end.

Bidam, as long as you see giving as a "requirement", you will never be delivered from the tithe bondage. The day you see giving as a response to grace, you will stop to tithe.

Reading the first line of your sentence (bolded above) reveals where the source of your problem lies. Before you begin to talk about grace giving I'll advise you to come down from your throne of pride. Pride goes before destruction.

"But he giveth more grace. Wherefore he saith, God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble" (James 4:6).

OLAADEGBU:


The verse I quoted reveals the biblical formula God gave to Israel. Christians today will do well to learn this secret as they read the OT. The topic of this thread is tithes and offerings, which is essentially giving in the NT. Obedient Christians will do well to learn from the indictment received by Israel when they stopped giving their tithes and offerings. Our Lord Jesus Christ did not come to abolish the Law He came to fulfil it. He said:

Psalms 147:19 (KJV) 19 He sheweth his word unto Jacob, his statutes and his judgments unto Israel.

Psalms 147:20 (KJV) 20 He hath not dealt so with any nation: and [as for his] judgments, they have not known them. Praise ye the LORD.

Acts 15:23 (KJV) 23 And they wrote [letters] by them after this manner; The apostles and elders and brethren [send] greeting unto the brethren which are of the Gentiles in Antioch and Syria and Cilicia:

Acts 15:24 (KJV) 24 Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, [Ye must] be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no [such] commandment:

Acts 15:25 (KJV) 25 It seemed good unto us, being assembled with one accord, to send chosen men unto you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul,

Acts 15:26 (KJV) 26 Men that have hazarded their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Acts 15:27 (KJV) 27 We have sent therefore Judas and Silas, who shall also tell [you] the same things by mouth.

Acts 15:28 (KJV) 28 For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things;

Acts 15:29 (KJV) 29 That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well.

Acts 21:23 (KJV) 23 Do therefore this that we say to thee: We have four men which have a vow on them;

Acts 21:24 (KJV) 24 Them take, and purify thyself with them, and be at charges with them, that they may shave [their] heads: and all may know that those things, whereof they were informed concerning thee, are nothing; but [that] thou thyself also walkest orderly, and keepest the law.

Acts 21:25 (KJV) 25 As touching the Gentiles which believe, we have written [and] concluded that they observe no such thing, save only that they keep themselves from [things] offered to idols, and from blood, and from strangled, and from fornication.

OLAADEGBU:


Does this not show your hypocrisy? How do you claim to have a God driven giving heart and then spend your lifetime teaching people not to give to God?

Jesus said to your likes again:

i don't teach people to not give. I teach them to give according to God's will for their lives. According to the Word of God, tithing is not God's will for Gentile Christians. No hypocrisy being taught by me. You might want to check your own heart. The tithe Jesus taught was the agricultural tithe as the Law prescribed. Your tithe doesn't even reflect the tithe of Matthew 23:23.

Physician, heal thyself.

OLAADEGBU:


This explains your predicament. Nothing stops you from giving without loving, but you cannot say that you love without giving.

who says I don't fellowship? What was it Jesus said? Oh yes... Where two or more are gathered on my name, there am I in the midst.

Your argument fails again, Olaadegbu.

MarkMiwerds:
i have no local assembly. The last assembly I was a member of made sure of that.

As to my giving, when I see someone in need, and I have the means to meet that need, I give. Whether it's a neighbor in my community, or a beggar downtown as per 1 John 3:17.

Even atheists do these,So are you saying scriptures like Acts 4:36-37, Philipians 4:14-18 and Heb 10:25 which you despise right now since you are mr. island shouldnt be practised?

It is a well known documented fact that anti-tithing campaigns like yours have NEVER inspired an increase or healthy giving in the body of Christ- not even in the USA where you live.

WinsomeX:


I answered your question in my last post in the last paragraph but since you have comprehension trouble, I will come down to your level and break it down to ABC.

No, you didn't. All i saw were quick WEAK attempts,ramblings, shifting of posts and self-opinions that aren't scriptural. I need direct answers.

Does God "require" giving?

The answer is NO!

Epic failure. Where does Paul EXPECT giving to come from when he used the Law of Moses and INSTRUCTED christians to give "in the same way" in 1 Corinthians 9:13-14?

God doesn't "require" anything from us; rather he gave us his everything.

REQUIRE

verb

(requires, requiring; past and past participle required)
(obsolete)

To ask (someone) for something; to request. [14th-17th c.]

To demand, to insist upon (having); to call for authoritatively. [from 14th c.]

Naturally to demand (something) as indispensable; to need, to call for as necessary. [from 15th c.]

To demand of (someone) to do something. [from 18th c.]

God gave us all things in Christ. It's called grace. In response we live our lives for him. We love God, we love humanity. This is what compels our giving and not a certain requirement that presupposes law or a perquisite or a means to an end.

Bidam, as long as you see giving as a "requirement", you will never be delivered from the tithe bondage. The day you see giving as a response to grace, you will stop to tithe.

Another Epic failure, must we teach you and your cohorts everything? This tithe thread has reached 100 pgs, yet you have learnt nothing?
You are no teacher of grace yet you want to teach us grace.SMH!
Do you know that Grace demands a more a higher dimension than the law which you are fixated on?

Before grace can be available, there is a REQUIREMENT by individuals to RESPOND to INSTRUCTIONS from the Holy Spirit.examples abound in scripritures. Before sinners are saved they ARE REQUIRED TO respond to the message of salvation by the conviction of the Holy Spirit. Even Noah WAS REQUIRED to build an Ark for the salvation of his household before grace was made available.

And concerning giving, if it was not required by God in the NT, Paul wouldn't have made a categorical statement in 1 cor 9:13-14 to INSTRUCT the church to give.

Christians who understand that practical living is not a question of legalism do not wait for your ant-tithing legalism before they can express their giving in the form of tithe.

All your anti-tithing arguments with you and your friends that no one can do this or that "as God had instructed in the OT" shows how illiterate you are. Like i said before on this forum there are many doctrines for the church taught by the apostles which are drawn from the mosaic law and even the prophets. Anti-tithers like you are happy to 'carry over' those doctrines from the mosaic law without arguing that no one can do so as God requires or had instructed in the OT.

Bidam, please look over the meaning of "require" that I supplied from a secular dictionary, with dates, to understand what a requirement is.

Christians are indeed commanded to give in scripture but where does scripture tell us giving is a requirement? A requirement for what?

Assuming you you understand me a little, can you tell why you mix tithing and giving up? Why do the two look like the same thing to you? Why is it that when the folly of tithing is plainly shown to you and your friends, you quickly resort to the matter of giving? When will you understand that Christians are called to give (not required) and not commanded or required to tithe in the NT?

If 124 pages of tithe argument does nothing to change these guys from Judaism to Christianity, I don't know what else will change them....maybe except if their god fathers and demi gods change one day, maybe they will change since they don't follow Christ but men, copying web-links and teaching doctrines of men.

It doesn't worth it no more helping some heart hardened fellow to promote\increase pages of thread that the truth had been revealed already. He will leave the thread for sometime and return with some kind of link and nonsense quotes to promote this knocked out thread. I guess this will be my last comment on this thread.

^^^

I came across a group on Facebook called the "Open Congregation". When I joined them I introduced the subject of tithing there but got little response. I learnt later that most of the leading contributors to that page where not tithers. One of them even told me that what I am saying are thing long thrashed out.

The Nigerian gospel musician, Kenny K'ore is one of them. He is a grace preacher. One of his recent tracks had him mocking a tithe collecting preacher.

My Point: the only time people remain bound to tithing is in a closed environment where people cannot discuss bible doctrine or ask questions. The Open Congregation folks have thrashed out thorny biblical doctrine, like tithing, that most are agreed on it today.

So, I agree with Goshen, that if despite years of discussing this tithe matter, some still remain bound to it and unteachable, they are at best irredeemable.

WinsomeX:
Bidam, please look over the meaning of "require" that I supplied from a secular dictionary, with dates, to understand what a requirement is.

Christians are indeed commanded to give in scripture but where does scripture tell us giving is a requirement? A requirement for what?

Assuming you you understand me a little, can you tell why you mix tithing and giving up? Why do the two look like the same thing to you? Why is it that when the folly of tithing is plainly shown to you and your friends, you quickly resort to the matter of giving? When will you understand that Christians are called to give (not required) and not commanded or required to tithe in the NT?

SMH! For some fellows, i am not interested in your secular definitions and stop twisting what i said. The question i posed to you was Does God require giving? In other words Does God requires giving in the church today? Come off your high horse and stop the semantics, i never said anything about requirements. Atleast you have conceded we are commanded to give after shouting grace! grace! all over my post with your cohorts who never studied their bible goading you on.

OLAADEGBU:


Can't you read the title of the thread before posting? Let me remind you again, the topic is tithes and offerings. Tithes is just one of the means of giving but you anti tithers are fixated on tithing to the extent that you can't see that it is also linked with offerings. Why do you kick against tithes but hypocritically collect and give offerings? If you detest tithes then you should detest offerings, don't strain at a gnat but conveniently swallow a carmel.

OLAADEGBU,

While the title of the thread reads tithes and offering, my post, which you quoted, was responding to Bidam cunning move at shifting a discussion BTW you and Miwerds which was on tithing, to giving. I wanted you and him to remain on the particular response of Miwerds that clearly showed that tithing was not a NT injunction. You both saw this well laid out in his rebuttal and unable to respond to him, you changed the discussion to giving. That's my contention.

If however you wish to make us understand that offering and giving are one and the same in the NT, I will show you here that again you err. From records of scriptures, the book of Leviticus lists out the various offerings Israel shall bring to the temple. In the same Lev., God introduces the subject of tithing under the law. When God began to rebuke Israel in Malachi about tithes and offerings, these were the things he was referring to: agricultural tithes and offerings that included peace, burnt, etc.

By the time we come to the NT, there is no account of one person in the church giving a tithe or providing the Levitical offerings. They could not because the church was not Moses' temple. Also, Christ resurrection had made those sacrifices obsolete.

So rather than offering, the bible records "collections" being made mostly for the poor and needy. This are the things the NT instructs us to give: not tithes and not the levitical offerings.

If however you are confident that levitical offerings were made by Christians in the NT, I request that you or Bidam provide the scriptures here.

Disclaimer: I will appreciate it if non of you refer us to the Acts scripture were Paul went to fulfil a vow in a temple. That scripture will not be sufficient proof here bc those were offerings made to the temple not the church; and those actions were carried out by Paul to ease the persecution on him by the Jews and not bc they are recommended Christian practices. If however you wish to stand by that example, do provide one occasion in your Christian life when you did the same thing.

The question is clear and directed to your co-buddy, i think i remember giving up on you on this forum since you are entangled with encircling religious spirits. The day you see scriptures with the eyes of your heart by the help of the Holy Spirit( which i don't think you have) is the day you will be delivered from this plague of demons.Scriptures is not about academics and secular exercise. Ever learning and NEVER able to come to the knowledge of Christ. I pray God help you from falling.

WinsomeX:


OLAADEGBU,

While the title of the thread reads tithes and offering, my post, which you quoted, was responding to Bidam cunning move at shifting a discussion BTW you and Miwerds which was on tithing, to giving. I wanted you and him to remain on the particular response of Miwerds that clearly showed that tithing was not a NT injunction. You both saw this well laid out in his rebuttal and unable to respond to him, you changed the discussion to giving. That's my contention.

If however you wish to make us understand that offering and giving are one and the same in the NT, I will show you here that again you err. From records of scriptures, the book of Leviticus lists out the various offerings Israel shall bring to the temple. In the same Lev., God introduces the subject of tithing under the law. When God began to rebuke Israel in Malachi about tithes and offerings, these were the things he was referring to: agricultural tithes and offerings that included peace, burnt, etc.

By the time we come to the NT, there is no account of one person in the church giving a tithe or providing the Levitical offerings. They could not because the church was not Moses' temple. Also, Christ resurrection had made those sacrifices obsolete.

So rather than offering, the bible records "collections" being made mostly for the poor and needy. This are the things the NT instructs us to give: not tithes and not the levitical offerings.

If however you are confident that levitical offerings were made by Christians in the NT, I request that you or Bidam provide the scriptures here.

Disclaimer: I will appreciate it if non of you refer us to the Acts scripture were Paul went to fulfil a vow in a temple. That scripture will not be sufficient proof here bc those were offerings made to the temple not the church; and those actions were carried out by Paul to ease the persecution on him by the Jews and not bc they are recommended Christian practices. If however you wish to stand by that example, do provide one occasion in your Christian life when you did the same thing.

Bidam:
SMH! For some fellows, i am not interested in your secular definitions and stop twisting what i said. The question i posed to you was Does God require giving? In other words Does God requires giving in the church today? Come off your high horse and stop the semantics, i never said anything about requirements. Atleast you have conceded we are commanded to give after shouting grace! grace! all over my post with your cohorts who never studied their bible goading you on.

You never said anything about requirement? Then who said this:

Bidam:
One may argue that God does not "require tithes" but the question yet would be: Does the same God "require" giving?

Next time be careful with the use of your words.

As to who is conceding, I didn't concede anything that I and others have not been saying from page 0 of this thread and that is that God has not commanded any Christian to tithe today. If we will give at all, it should be free will. That's the position.

Bidam:
The question is clear and directed to your co-buddy, i think i remember giving up on you on this forum since you are entangled with encircling religious spirits. The day you see scriptures with the eyes of your heart by the help of the Holy Spirit( which i don't think you have) is the day you will be delivered from this plague of demons.Scriptures is not about academics and secular exercise. Ever learning and NEVER able at come to the knowledge of Christ. I pray God help you from falling.

I answered your question. I am sorry I cannot make it any simpler than that. My post you quoted however has questions or requests in it that you have not even attempted.

As to who has or does not have the Spirit, I cannot but laugh at your summation. I will advice you to leave such things only to God; he knows those he gave his Spirit to. But let me help you here: I saw your 2012 thread on tongues; the one that has ten reasons or so to speak in tongues. I was particularly interested in your exchange with Striktlymi in the first two pages. Regardless of who was right or wrong, any careful observer of that exchange could not but notice your frustration; your penchant to resort to abuse and the self righteous attitude of being the only possessor of the Holy Spirit. Striktlymi on the other hand contained you well. With well reasoned thoughts, patience and not one word of insult. Anyone reading that exchange could tell who had the Holy Spirit. The possession of the Spirit is not in talk or tongues; it's in fruits: in our case here, speaking or writing with grace in heart.

You can quit the discuss whenever you run out of ideas on how to defend the tithe; until then, I will be here for you and others.

Two things are possessed by men of the Spirit: wisdom and character. Jesus, Wisdom, said he will give this to his people when they are faced with hard discusses like this; ask him for some if you find yourself lacking. As to character, I leave our readers to judge who is truly of the Spirit BTW us.

WinsomeX:


I answered your question. I am sorry I cannot make it any simpler than that. My post you quoted however has questions or requests in it that you have not even attempted.

Can you show me the questions you have answered again and the questions you asked?

As to who has or does not have the Spirit, I cannot but laugh at your summation. I will advice you to leave such things only to God; he knows those he gave his Spirit to. But let me help you here: I saw your 2012 thread on tongues; the one that has ten reasons or so to speak in tongues. I was particularly interested in your exchange with Striktlymi in the first two pages. Regardless of who was right or wrong, any careful observer of that exchange could not but notice your frustration; your penchant to resort to abuse and the self righteous attitude of being the only possessor of the Holy Spirit. Striktlymi on the other hand contained you well. With well reasoned thoughts, patience and not one word of insult. Anyone reading that exchange could tell who had the Holy Spirit. The possession of the Spirit is not in talk or tongues; it's in fruits: in our case here, speaking or writing with grace in heart.

Maybe you can show us where i resorted to abuse in that thread or forever remain a liar. I might have in other threads call peoples doctrines demonic but the truth is i am following the footstep of Jesus who was filled with righteous indignations against the pharisees when he called them brood of vipers. Too bad if you take it as insults.Even mormons who are occultic show false fruits but does that mean they are part of Christ? Paul, Peter were merciless when they confronted doctrines of devils are you saying they don't have the Holy Spirit? It is a public knowledge here that even atheists posts appeals your endorsement.

You can quit the discuss whenever you run out of ideas on how to defend the tithe; until then, I will be here for you and others.

This is not your thread or OP, i am at liberty to post timeless truths here whenever i have the time and chance.

Two things are possessed by men of the Spirit: wisdom and character. Jesus, Wisdom, said he will give this to his people when they are faced with hard discusses like this; ask him for some if you find yourself lacking. As to character, I leave our readers to judge who is truly of the Spirit BTW us.

Ok, you mean your supporters? Even false teachers had large followers..examples abound in scriptures. Does that mean they are genuine? As for wisdom i have it, as far as i can see you are the guy who desperately need Jesus.

WinsomeX:


You never said anything about requirement? Then who said this:



Next time be careful with the use of your words.

As to who is conceding, I didn't concede anything that I and others have not been saying from page 0 of this thread and that is that God has not commanded any Christian to tithe today. If we will give at all, it should be free will. That's the position.

Can you define "require" and "requirement" as USED IN CONTEXT of what i wrote concerning giving? Even you pasted "require" to mean demand of something? Is it not synonymous to command? What do you understand by synonyms and antonyms?

I already showed you Paul using the Law of Moses where God "requires/commands/demands...(you can add other synonyms since na you sabi english pass) the church to give in 1 Cor 9:13-14.

If you and your cohorts lacks simple comprehension like this, then i am sorry i cannot help you. Only God can.

Bidam:
Can you define "require" and "requirement" as USED IN CONTEXT of what i wrote concerning giving? Even you pasted "require" to mean demand of something? Is it not synonymous to command? What do you understand by synonyms and antonyms?

I already showed you Paul using the Law of Moses where God "requires/commands/demands...(you can add other synonyms since na you sabi english pass) the church to give in 1 Cor 9:13-14.

If you and your cohorts lacks simple comprehension like this, then i am sorry i cannot help you. Only God can.

1 Corinthians 9:13 (KJV) 13 Do ye not know that they which minister about holy things live [of the things] of the temple? and they which wait at the altar are partakers with the altar
1 Corinthians 9:14 (KJV) 14 Even so hath the Lord ordained that they which preach the gospel should live of the gospel.

There is no requirement/command/demand in that passage. It says "should", not "must".

And Paul was not speaking of stationary Elders of the Church in 1 Corinthians 9 receiving support for ministering... he was speaking of Apostles, who were called out of local assemblies to preach the Gospel.

Acts 13:2 (KJV) 2 As they ministered to the Lord, and fasted, the Holy Ghost said, Separate me Barnabas and Saul for the work whereunto I have called them.

Acts 13:3 (KJV) 3 And when they had fasted and prayed, and laid [their] hands on them, they sent [them] away.

1 Corinthians 9:1 (KJV) 1 Am I not an apostle? am I not free? have I not seen Jesus Christ our Lord? are not ye my work in the Lord?

1 Corinthians 9:2 (KJV) 2 If I be not an apostle unto others, yet doubtless I am to you: for the seal of mine apostleship are ye in the Lord.

1 Corinthians 9:3 (KJV) 3 Mine answer to them that do examine me is this,

1 Corinthians 9:4 (KJV) 4 Have we not power to eat and to drink?

1 Corinthians 9:5 (KJV) 5 Have we not power to lead about a sister, a wife, as well as other apostles, and [as] the brethren of the Lord, and Cephas?

The Apostle Paul was answering his accusers who had been questioning his authority as an Apostle to accept meals in exchange for preaching. And Paul said that, though he had the power to accept from the people, he did not exercise that authority.

This proves the care of the Apostles for preaching was not a command to the people. Had it been a command, Paul would have accepted it and not refused it as he did.

2 Corinthians 9:7 KJV: Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver.

ESV: Each one must give as he has decided in his heart, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver.

NIV: Each of you should give what you have decided in your heart to give, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver.

AMP: Let each one [give] as he has made up his own mind and purposed in his heart, not reluctantly or sorrowfully or under compulsion, for God loves (He takes pleasure in, prizes above other things, and is unwilling to abandon or to do without) a cheerful (joyous, “prompt to do it”) giver [whose heart is in his giving].

Hopefully, I believe that OLAADEGBU, from my previous discussion here has understood the distinction btw offerings as discussed in scripture and giving. To summarise, no one ever gave an offering in the NT. What they gave was a collection at best.

But since we have been reminded that the thread has more to say than just tithe and that we should also discuss giving, I have presented above a scripture by Paul that clearly tells us how the first century Christian gave. Bidam may read that scripture and help us find the "require" in it. He may even go further to find the "commandment" in it. Any careful reader wilk see that Paul tells us that NT giving shall be without compulsion. If a "require" or "commandment" does not imply compulsion, I request Bidam to tell us what else compulsion might mean.

The OT clearly showed that tithes and offering were requirements and commandments to be given under compulsion, else the Jews sinned. In the NT, all this change to free will giving. Free will means without compulsion. If we feel compelled at all to give, it is the love of God that compels us.

Hallelujah!