Will God accept tithes and offerings from looters and criminals?

^ That's why God NEVER demanded tithe ANYMORE in the first place from NT believers. Another point is, will a Christian be a 'criminal' and 'looter'? The answer is NO!

FrontPageLawyer: Will God accept tithes and offerings from looters and criminals?

yes if they repent and returned the money they looted

Goshen360: ^ That's why God NEVER demanded tithe ANYMORE in the first place from NT believers. Another point is, will a Christian be a 'criminal' and 'looter'? The answer is NO!

I don't know where you got that from that God does not demand tithes anymore.

^ I got it from Hebrews 7

Goshen360: ^ I got it from Hebrews 7

What does Hebrew 7 Says?

^ You may want to read everything in context but let me share with you with the context. This is it,

Goshen360:

King James 2000 Bible
And verily they that are of the sons of Levi, who receive the office of the priesthood, have a [size=20pt]commandment to take tithes[/size] of the people according to the law, that is, of their brethren, though they are descendants of Abraham: - Hebrews 7:5.....................For here is verily an annulment of the previous [size=20pt]commandment[/size] because of the weakness and uselessness thereof. - Hebrews 7:18

From the above scriptures, verse 5 says the Levites have COMMANDMENT to RECEIVE TITHE. Verse 18 says, there is an ANNULMENT of the previous COMMANDMENT.

Here is my question: Will the COMMANDMENT THAT IS ANNULLED (or SET ASIDE, CANCELLATION and ABROGATED) in verse 18 ALSO INCLUDE the COMMANDMENT to RECEIVE TITHE in verse 5 OR NOT

Goshen360: ^ You may want to read everything in context but let me share with you with the context. This is it,

I think you should re-read the entire chapter because this is a pure mus-intrepretation of the chapter and misquotation of texts
When you are done, then i will give you summary of the Hebrew 7, so you should stop assuming what you are thinking

^ I'm not thinking or assuming the text. The text speaks for itself. All we have to do is study it in context. We've done exposition on Hebrews 7 in the past and the text proves God ended tithe/tithing in Hebrews 7. Christian are ONLY left and encourage to give and giving doesn't go with a legalistic 10% for which the law instituted tithing.

Goshen360: ^ I'm not thinking or assuming the text. The text speaks for itself. All we have to do is study it in context. We've done exposition on Hebrews 7 in the past and the text proves God ended tithe/tithing in Hebrews 7. Christian are ONLY left and encourage to give and giving doesn't go with a legalistic 10% for which the law instituted tithing.

I have quietly monitored your advocacy for abolition of tithes in New Testament. But I think you are wrong. While I understand that you might be making a grave unconscious mistake, I think you should have ask before reaching that conclusion, at least ask people who are advance in this profession.

Hebrew 7 Summary

It explain thus that the Levite priests with commandment of receiving tithes among other commandments are human beings that dies. Verse 8 said in this place the man that die receive tithes and here Jesus who do not die receive them and its is witnessed that he lives.

In verse 9 he said levi also pay tithes and verse 11 said, if perfection were by the Levitical priesthood in which people received law then there should not be any other priest that should come in order of Melchisedec and not related to Aaron who through the law had the commandment to receive tithes.

Since the priesthood have been changed from Aaron, there should also be change of the law. Knowing that the new priesthood does not relate to the tribe of Levi but Judah who do not conduct sacrifice with altar and Moses did not talk about the tribe of Judah to be a priesthood tribe. -14

Verse 15, It is certain that after the ordinance of Melchisedec came another priest, who is not made after the law of human commandment but after power of endless life, because he testified that he was priest forever after the order of Melchisedec,
VERSE 18- Because there is cancelation of the commandment (of Levitical priesthood and a new commandment is Jesus becoming priest forever without coming from the tribe of Levi which receive commandment from God through Moses to be the only tribe that can become Priests in Israel)going before the weakness of the Levi and un-profitableness thereof because its made by law and not eternal like Jesus who is made priest inform of Melchisedec


Please do not confuse others because God does not forgive people who ignorantly disobey his commandment, except they repent

^ Question to you again: How many times is the word 'commandment' used within the context AND WHAT REFERENCE WAS IT USED TO/WITH in each usage. This will help us in clarity. Kindly list them please.

Goshen360: ^ Question to you again: How many times is the word 'commandment' used within the context AND WHAT REFERENCE WAS IT USED TO/WITH in each usage. This will help us in clarity.

I will answer the questions, but lets look at the entire comprehension of Chapter 7.
or the best way to look at it is to go back to Exodus and Leviticus. Exodus 30:30 "30 And thou shalt anoint Aaron and his sons, and consecrate them, that they may minister unto me in the priest's office."
Exodus 28:1-2 "And take thou unto thee Aaron thy brother, and his sons with him, from among the children of Israel, that he may minister unto me in the priest's office, even Aaron, Nadab and Abihu, Eleazar and Ithamar, Aaron's sons.
2 And thou shalt make holy garments for Aaron thy brother for glory and for beauty."

Leviticus explain details of their duties which is called commandment. Let us take example chapter 6 of Leviticus, but i will advice you read from chapter one.

Leviticus 6: 19-16 "19 And the Lord spake unto Moses, saying,

20 This is the offering of Aaron and of his sons, which they shall offer unto the Lord in the day when he is anointed; the tenth part of an ephah of fine flour for a meat offering perpetual, half of it in the morning, and half thereof at night.

21 In a pan it shall be made with oil; and when it is baken, thou shalt bring it in: and the baken pieces of the meat offering shalt thou offer for a sweet savour unto the Lord.

22 And the priest of his sons that is anointed in his stead shall offer it: it is a statute for ever unto the Lord; it shall be wholly burnt.

23 For every meat offering for the priest shall be wholly burnt: it shall not be eaten.

24 And the Lord spake unto Moses, saying,

25 Speak unto Aaron and to his sons, saying, This is the law of the sin offering: In the place where the burnt offering is killed shall the sin offering be killed before the Lord: it is most holy.

26 The priest that offereth it for sin shall eat it: in the holy place shall it be eaten, in the court of the tabernacle of the congregation."


The book of Exodus and Some of Leviticus uses commandment and law or the lord said to Moses. for instance again look at Leviticus chapter 4:1 "4 And the Lord spake unto Moses, saying,

2 Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, If a soul shall sin through ignorance against any of the commandments of the Lord concerning things which ought not to be done, and shall do against any of them:"

Answer to your question

All in the table that Moses collected from God on the mount of Sinai are commandments, keep the sabbath day holy, leaven and unleaven, no one should bring blemish male goat for sacrifice all are commandments. But Hebrew 7 was not specifically talking about tithes. It was using the figurative and comparison of the lineage of Mechisedec and Aaron together that is why he used something common that they both did. Aaron and his sons the priests collected tithes and Melchizedek also collected tithes.. .. You will see that there was no comparison of burnt offering, because Mechisedec did not burn any. So the compare and contrast match well with tithes, but the main commandment of chapter 7 of Hebrew was that Jesus is the new highest priest who is now from the lineage of Judah.. He helps us carry our sin to God like Aaron and his sons did for the people of Israel in form of sin, burnt, trespass and peace offerings

^
I will not quote everything you said, but just this part,

potentpraise:

Answer to your question

All in the table that Moses collected from God on the mount of Sinai are commandments, keep the sabbath day holy, leaven and unleaven, no one should bring blemish male goat for sacrifice all are commandments. But Hebrew 7 was not specifically talking about tithes. It was using the figurative and comparison of the lineage of Mechisedec and Aaron together that is why he used something common that they both did. Aaron and his sons the priests collected tithes and Melchizedek also collected tithes.. .. You will see that there was no comparison of burnt offering, because Mechisedec did not burn any. So the compare and contrast match well with tithes, but the main commandment of chapter 7 of Hebrew was that Jesus is the new highest priest who is now from the lineage of Judah.. He helps us carry our sin to God like Aaron and his sons did for the people of Israel in form of sin, burnt, trespass and peace offerings

First, you dodged my simple question. I asked you show tell me how many times 'commandment' is used in context of Hebrews 7 and to what is it referenced to/with in each usage.

Two, I understand PERFECTLY well that Hebrews 7 was on priesthood of Jesus Christ. I do understand that! Now, from your above and as highlight,

1. According to you and I quote, "[size=20pt]All[/size] in the table that Moses collected from God on the mount of Sinai [size=20pt]are commandments[/size], keep the sabbath day holy, leaven and unleaven, no one should bring blemish male goat for sacrifice [size=20pt]all are commandments[/size].

2. Will these COMMANDMENTS also include commandment to TAKE TITHES? - Yes or No?

Goshen360: ^
I will not quote everything you said, but just this part,


First, you dodged my simple question. I asked you show tell me how many times 'commandment' is used in context of Hebrews 7 and to what is it referenced to/with in each usage.

Two, I understand PERFECTLY well that Hebrews 7 was on priesthood of Jesus Christ. I do understand that! Now, from your above and as highlight,

1. According to you and I quote, "[size=20pt]All[/size] in the table that Moses collected from God on the mount of Sinai [size=20pt]are commandments[/size], keep the sabbath day holy, leaven and unleaven, no one should bring blemish male goat for sacrifice [size=20pt]all are commandments[/size].

2. Will these COMMANDMENTS also include commandment to TAKE TITHES? - Yes or No?

First i am not dodging your question and i think with your second question you are been very specific.

The answer to your second question is NO... This is usage of plural and singular in a sentence. "ALL ARE COMMANDMENTS"
Chapter 7 verse 8 of Hebrew was specific as to COMMANDMENT(plural) no "S" So all it was talking about was the change of priesthood from Levi to Judah which also means from Aaron to Melchisedec that is now centered on Jesus as the high priest

Here is the answer that you think i dodge

5 And verily they that are of the sons of Levi, who receive the office of the priesthood, have a commandment to take tithes of the people according to the law, that is, of their brethren, though they come out of the loins of Abraham:


16 Who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life.


18 For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof.


The three verses in the Hebrew 7 where commandment appears are 5, 16, and 18
The word use is commandment a singular and particular command of the change of priesthood from the Aaron lineage to Jesus the son of God

potentpraise:

First i am not dodging your question and i think with your second question you are been very specific.

The answer to your second question is NO... This is usage of plural and singular in a sentence. "ALL ARE COMMANDMENTS"
Chapter 7 verse 8 of Hebrew was specific as to COMMANDMENT(plural) no "S" So all it was talking about was the change of priesthood from Levi to Judah which also means from Aaron to Melchisedec that is now centered on Jesus as the high priest

God bless you. Now, lemme me show the reference is singular and it was referenced to tithe. Look at it,

And verily they that are of the sons of Levi, who receive the office of the priesthood, have a commandment to take tithes of the people according to the law, that is, of their brethren, though they come out of the loins of Abraham: vs 5

The commandment (in RED) is singular and is specific, TO TAKE TITHES.

For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof. vs 18

Again, the commandment here in vs 18 is singular. Will it INCLUDED (but not limited to) TITHE or NOT?

^ The language of vs 16 has revealed the truth of vs 5, lemme show you,

...have a commandment to take tithes of the people according to the law,..... (vs 5)

Who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life. (vs 16)

The commandment (singular) is taken as whole CONTAINED in the law (singular) of Moses. The 613 lawS is plural but everything therein is taken as a WHOLE or ONE wherein it contains commandmentS taken as a whole or ONE. You disagree?

Goshen360:

God bless you. Now, lemme me show the reference is singular and it was referenced to tithe. Look at it,

And verily they that are of the sons of Levi, who receive the office of the priesthood, have a commandment to take tithes of the people according to the law, that is, of their brethren, though they come out of the loins of Abraham: vs 5

The commandment (in RED) is singular and is specific, TO TAKE TITHES.

For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof. vs 18

Again, the commandment here in vs 18 is singular. Will it INCLUDED (but not limited to) TITHE or NOT?

No it does not include Tithes. Please do not select a particular word to interpret a whole paragraph of entire chapter. Look at Leviticus 4:2 ""2 Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, If a soul shall sin through ignorance against any of the commandments of the Lord concerning things which ought not to be done, and shall do against any of them:"

The bible is a comprehension or a narative book, that explain event and thought through God inspiration. We know that in narrative essay, we can compare and contrast and we can make examples that relate to what we are trying to establish.

If you look at the following verses which are conclusion of the chapter, just like you and i know that every essay has introduction, body and conclusion.. and usually what is not clear in the introduction is establish in the body and sometime the body of an essay could have references and thoughts that should help to establish the introduction and if the body fails the conclusion clarifies all.

From verse 19 through 28, you will notice there was greater concentration on Priesthood and Jesus.. look at it here:

19 For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.

20 And inasmuch as not without an oath he was made priest:

21 (For those priests were made without an oath; but this with an oath by him that said unto him, The Lord sware and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec

22 By so much was Jesus made a surety of a better testament.

23 And they truly were many priests, because they were not suffered to continue by reason of death:

24 But this man, because he continueth ever, hath an unchangeable priesthood.

25 Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.

26 For such an high priest became us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and made higher than the heavens;

27 Who needeth not daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifice, first for his own sins, and then for the people's: for this he did once, when he offered up himself.

28 For the law maketh men high priests which have infirmity; but the word of the oath, which was since the law, maketh the Son, who is consecrated for evermore.

^
I do not argue that Hebrews 7 IS NOT talking about priesthood of Jesus better than that of Leviticals. That's not the argument here. The argument is, tithe was also included in this teachings of Hebrews 7 to drive home to the conclusion of the priesthood of Jesus Christ - That is, in Christ's priesthood once replaced also replaced the entirety of the levitical priesthood and everything ascribed to them.

Okay, lemme play a soft game here. If you say it was the priesthood that was nullified, will the tithe commanded to the levitical priesthood according to the law still remain if the priesthood is gone?

Goshen360: ^
I do not argue that Hebrews 7 IS NOT talking about priesthood of Jesus better than that of Leviticals. That's not the argument here. The argument is, tithe was also included in this teachings of Hebrews 7 to drive home to the conclusion of the priesthood of Jesus Christ.

Okay, lemme play a soft game here. If you say it was the priesthood that was nullified, will the tithe commanded to the levitical priesthood according to the law still remain if the priesthood is gone?

If you see that the priesthood was related to Melchisedec and it was reference that he collected tithes and the order of Melchisedec is related to Jesus.. You should also know the author was more concern about the Israelite to see Jesus as the new priest.

So if its reference to Melchisedec and he also collected tithes, the tithes is not abolished.

potentpraise:

If you see that the priesthood was related to Melchisedec and it was reference that he collected tithes and the order of Melchisedec is related to Jesus.. You should also know the author was more concern about the Israelite to see Jesus as the new priest.

So if its reference to Melchisedec and he also collected tithes, the tithes is not abolished.

Melchizedek collected tithe or TENTH? And who was He? Christ?

this is not a premise of debate, it is a fact: GOD IS ACCEPTING ANYTHING FROM ANYONE, EVEN HUMAN SACRIFICE(HE DID FROM JESUS).

Goshen360:

Melchizedek collected tithe or TENTH? And who was He? Christ?

Dictionary defines tithes :
Sometimes, tithes. the tenth part of agricultural produce or personal income set apart as an offering to God or for works of mercy, or the same amount regarded as an obligation or tax for the support of the church, priesthood, or the like. Reference: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/tithes+?s=t

He was a priest like the chapter explain, He was not Jesus .. He was being referenced to

ooman: this is not a premise of debate, it is a fact: GOD IS ACCEPTING ANYTHING FROM ANYONE, EVEN HUMAN SACRIFICE(HE DID FROM JESUS).

lol i smile

potentpraise:

Dictionary defines tithes :
Sometimes, tithes. the tenth part of agricultural produce or personal income set apart as an offering to God or for works of mercy, or the same amount regarded as an obligation or tax for the support of the church, priesthood, or the like. Reference: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/tithes+?s=t

He was a priest like the chapter explain, He was not Jesus .. He was being referenced to

Circular dictionary to define God's word?

Okay, lemme begin with this verses so you see the differences,

To whom also Abraham gave a tenth part of all; first being by interpretation King of righteousness, and after that also King of Salem, which is, King of peace; (vs 2)

This might shock you also,

Thus speak unto the Levites, and say unto them, When ye take of the children of Israel the tithes which I have given you from them for your inheritance, then ye shall offer up an heave offering of it for the LORD, [even] a tenth [part] of the tithe. - Numbers 18:26

can you see TENTH and TITHE in the same verse addressed to the LEVITES? Do 'tenth' (part) and 'tithe' mean the same thing? God gave a commandment to take tithes (not tenth). It was a commandment - The same God cancells the commandment when He cancelled the Levitical Priesthood says Hebrews 7:18.

potentpraise:
and the order of Melchisedec is related to Jesus..

Don't talk about things you don't understand. How exactly is the order of Melchizedec related to Jesus. i am very sure you don't have a clue.

potentpraise:
So if its reference to Melchisedec and he also collected tithes, the tithes is not abolished.

The concept of giving tenth cannot be abolished and do you know why? i will tell you; every giving (whether giving to pastor, or giving to beggars or giving to your next door neighbor or even your regular offering in church is a tenth part of something irrespective of the name you call it). What was abolished is the tithe instituted by God himself. i.e. the giving of tenth of agricultural produce to the Levites. Every other tithing practice is man made (including giving of tenth of personal income to church or pastor).

Goshen360's initial post (below) is valid.

Goshen360:
That's why God NEVER demanded tithe ANYMORE in the first place from NT believers.

^
Our brother needs to first understand there's difference between TENTH and TITHE first before he can argue successfully and teach the truth.

Goshen360:

Circular dictionary to define God's word?

Okay, lemme begin with this verses so you see the differences,

To whom also Abraham gave a tenth part of all; first being by interpretation King of righteousness, and after that also King of Salem, which is, King of peace; (vs 2)

This might shock you also,

Thus speak unto the Levites, and say unto them, When ye take of the children of Israel the tithes which I have given you from them for your inheritance, then ye shall offer up an heave offering of it for the LORD, [even] a tenth [part] of the tithe. - Numbers 18:26

can you see TENTH and TITHE in the same verse addressed to the LEVITES? God gave a commandment to take tithes. It was a commandment - The same God cancells the commandment when He cancelled the Levitical Priesthood says Hebrews 7:18.

Sometime i think you understand what you are saying and that you are just taking pleasure to ask question you have answered to.

Circular dictionary is made up of word interpretation and if you do not understand the words you read in the bible, you can reference to the interpretation.
Also what is tithes.. what is Thenth?

We all know that different words are used in the bible that mean the same thing... Let look at the word oblation and sacrifice ...


Before i go too far to show you that... look at verse 9 of Hebrew 7 "9 And as I may so say, Levi also, who receiveth tithes, payed tithes in Abraham." If tithes meant different thing, the chapter would have said "9 And as I may so say, Levi also, who receiveth tithes, payed tenth in Abraham."

Going back to using different words that mean the same thing at similar scenario, lets look at Leviticus 2: 4-5
4 And if thou bring an oblation of a meat offering baken in the oven, it shall be unleavened cakes of fine flour mingled with oil, or unleavened wafers anointed with oil.

5 And if thy oblation be a meat offering baken in a pan, it shall be of fine flour unleavened, mingled with oil.

While in the same chapter the word offer was used in verse 1 of Leviticus 2

"And when any will offer a meat offering unto the Lord, his offering shall be of fine flour; and he shall pour oil upon it, and put frankincense thereon:"


I know you are more than convince that tithes and tenth meant the same thing. I also know that you are convince that there was no abolition of tithes in the New Testament as you popularly proclaim. If so i thank God for your life and i pray that God will continue to teach us his words

Goshen360: ^
Our brother needs to first understand there's difference between TENTH and TITHE first before he can argue successfully and teach the truth.

First i think you should stop confusing yourself and stop arguing blindly... English is not your language of birth and even if it is, PhD's in English language also referrers to dictionary for words that they don't understand or need clarification. For you to come and say tenth meant different thing after a dictionary just prove that its the same as tithes say something about you...

Secondly i think you are jumping everywhere to argue out yourself. If you do not understand english word, use dictionary and if you need clarification on comprehension which i understand that many of us do, especially if you are reading from King James version ask people who know and don't argue. Not everything that one does not understand one should argue, argument only comes when you are sure and have facts to buttress your point. Also a good learner is the one that saw that his argument has been defused and take correction or do more research to establish his advance thought on the same subject matter. No just argue for argument sake

@OP, I think you already know the answer, it is in your question.

@Goshen,
You never cease to surprise me. We have had a discussion on this and you dissappeared when you ran out of contradicting yourself. I will advise you leave matters you do not understand. It is just candid advise.

Zikkyy:

Don't talk about things you don't understand. How exactly is the order of Melchizedec related to Jesus. i am very sure you don't have a clue.

ANS
If you are arguing this after the illustration in Hebrew 7, then it means you have selective memory or you do selective reading that leads to selective comprehension


Zikkyy:
The concept of giving tenth cannot be abolished and do you know why? i will tell you; every giving (whether giving to pastor, or giving to beggars or giving to your next door neighbor or even your regular offering in church is a tenth part of something irrespective of the name you call it). What was abolished is the tithe instituted by God himself. i.e. the giving of tenth of agricultural produce to the Levites. Every other tithing practice is man made (including giving of tenth of personal income to church or pastor).----


ANS
It will make good sense to reference your conclusion to the bible because all you just state is opinion. You will need to go read exodus where the bible tells the rich to give to the poor. And if you don't understand that tenth and tithes is the same then you should get a dictionary.


Zikkyy:
Goshen360's initial post (below) is valid.

ANS
If himself directly or indirectly admitted that his argument has been refuted

^ This is not argument for arguing sake or what have you. Let's begin to put the difference (tenth and tithe) into use now. For instance, there're 12 months in a year. The 'tenth' month is October. Are you telling us that 'tithe' (10%) of 12 is will automatically be EQUAL 10 (10th) month?

Snowwy: @OP, I think you already know the answer, it is in your question.

@Goshen,
You never cease to surprise me. We have had a discussion on this and you dissappeared when you ran out of contradicting yourself. I will advise you leave matters you do not understand. It is just candid advise.

Welcome back! I hope you will stay this time. I can't remember when I disappeared o. One thing about you is that, you start here now and the next thing is you will run off. I hope you stay this time.

potentpraise:
ANS
If you are arguing this after the illustration in Hebrew 7, then it means you have selective memory or you do selective reading that leads to selective comprehension

You know it would have been easy for you to refer Goshen to the many illustrations in the bible regarding the definition of tithe & tenth, but feeling confident you decided to open a dictionary. so i want you to adopt the same approach here; lets see some display of confidence and tell us how the order of Melchizedek is related to Jesus if you understand what you are talking about and you want viewers to learn from you, kindly answer the question! Don't know why you are scared.