mdsocks: thats why they say you marry someone whom you understand...you are been authoritarian if you keep on watching soccer on the tv set without been considerate about what stations she might like to watch also and truth is 'commanding' her to sleep isnt best for your marriage bro.

What do you want in a wife? Someone who fears you because you bark orders or someone who respects you because she knows you will do the logical and right thing?

In the muslim singles thread i see all of you saying you want ladies who are intelligent and independent so why are you seeking a 'yes' woman now?

Scared of the challenge? Lol!

You are obviously too busy trying to present yourself as a libertarian to read my comments on this thread. Go and read from the beginning and throw your strawman arguments into the gutter.

You will get weak if you had to relate with some of the strong and independent women I have to relate with. A woman's strength will not make her the head of a home. It is submitted to her husband, no need going around in circles with you, you will learn soon enough.

coolheed: May Allah bless the author of this thread.
I think it is important to state scriptural evidences on the rights and responsibilities of the husband and the wife. These two elements are combined in the quranic and biblical verses below:

“Men are in charge of women by [right of] what Allah has given one over the other and what they spend [for maintenance] from their wealth.” (An-Nisa’: 34).
"Wives, submit to your own husbands, as to the Lord" Ephesians 5 v 22.

It is not uncommon that women of this generation find it difficult to obey their husbands all in the name of civilization and gender equality. This is one of the key reasons why divorce rate is higher in recent times.
I heard some people say "he cannot command me but he can lead me with care and love". This is all syntactic gymnastics. I disagree that husbands cannot command the wife but my question is this "Can the husband instruct/lead/direct/oversee the affairs of the wife?. If the answer is yes, then it means the same thing as command. In trying to balance the view of the womenfolk, the word "command" could also connote "being authoritative" and "dictatorial". As we know that some men also misuse this God-given right. A good husband communicates, listens and deliberates with his wife. However, this does not take away his right as the head and leader of the family affairs. The important thing is that women should be obedient and submissive to their husbands. They should not display arrogance where submission is required. In as much as your husband does not instruct you to go against the will of Almighty Allah.

In the same vein, the husband is responsible for the provision of food, clothing and shelter for the family. This is the way of the Lord. If a man is not capable of supporting his family, he should pray to God for sustenance as it will greatly affect his right to lead the house as the two goes parri-passu. Little wonder why some financially buoyant wives choose not to submit to their husbands, afterall he does not provide for their material needs. This is not the way of the Lord as we have read from history very rich women who submittted to their husbands despite their financial status.

Thank you.

#Classic

Glad I'm an Atheist. I guess treating each other as you'd like to be treated is too complex.

Denise216: Glad I'm an Atheist. I guess treating each other as you'd like to be treated is too complex.

It is too complex for people to understand.
There is even a whole set of rules and etiquettes inside the Muslim religion that involves putting the happiness and welfare of those you are in charge of before your own but no man talks about those things.
They are more interested in shouting 'submit!' down at every woman because wielding dictatorship control over others feels so good.

Denise216: Glad I'm an Atheist. I guess treating each other as you'd like to be treated is too complex.

Surely you do realize that "treating each other as you'd like to be treated" is not an atheistic characteristic. Atheism has no norms so essentially you are free to treat them good or bad since you are not accountable to any higher power.

fellis:
It is too complex for people to understand.
There is even a whole set of rules and etiquettes inside the Muslim religion that involves putting the happiness and welfare of those you are in charge of before your own but no man talks about those things.
They are more interested in shouting 'submit!' down at every woman because wielding dictatorship control over others feels so good.

While I can kinda guess what you are trying to say, I would like to know what you consider reasonable submission or if you are against the idea of submission entirely. Secondly, Is the a law in or set of laws in Islam that forces the men to love their wives and sacrifice for them?

salam, shouldn't this have been written by a female Islamic columnist?

fellis:
It is too complex for people to understand.
There is even a whole set of rules and etiquettes inside the Muslim religion that involves putting the happiness and welfare of those you are in charge of before your own but no man talks about those things.
They are more interested in shouting 'submit!' down at every woman because wielding dictatorship control over others feels so good.

Fellis, how does a wife being submissive to her husband mean he won't treat her like a queen?

maclatunji:

You are obviously too busy trying to present yourself as a libertarian to read my comments on this thread. Go and read from the beginning and throw your strawman arguments into the gutter.

You will get weak if you had to relate with some of the strong and independent women I have to relate with. A woman's strength will not make her the head of a home. It is submitted to her husband, no need going around in circles with you, you will learn soon enough.

I have learned very well bro...Maybe you need to know . I got five sisters, 1,2,3,4,5 independent, different and strong women (amongst which 4 are married) and at least I have gained a lot from the interaction and arguments I have had with them. To be honest with you, times have changed and we need to be more open in situations like this. Not saying women are easy to control but also no human being is whether male or female .

Compromise and understanding is the major thing in marriage and each party must understand what their roles are. No woman is disputing the authority of her husband but you make it sound like simple issues needing compromise from you as the husband will make you look weak and women have to be handled with steel hands. If that's the point you are trying to pass on, then good luck.


Edited: and am not trying to present any ideas but just my own thinking of things.
Yes , the responsibility of taking care of your wife lies with you after marriage but do also remember she has an identity,life of her own before you married her.

^What do you think about the opening post in this thread?

maclatunji: ^What do you think about the opening post in this thread?

Fine, lovely and beautiful. But the major thing we have been disputing here is no 9.

9- Compliance to him

In all what he commands you, unless it is prohibited (Haram).

In Islam, the husband is the leader of the family, and the wife is his support and consultant.

Look at the word "in all" and the word "unless". That's where the man applies wisdom and not show of authority. Leave fatwas and commands out.You just don't dish out commands just because you are the head and must be obeyed at all times.

i will leave you to ponder on this quote from this site.

i) The "authority" on the husband should not be thought of in terms of the authority of a ruler or a boss. The very personal nature of the relationship between husband and wife and the love and affection which must characterize that relationship (30:21) should be reflected in the way the husband exercises his authority. In particular, he should always fully take into account her feelings on every matter. In Islam, even rulers and bosses are ordered to take into account the views of those in their charge; in case of husbands this is all the more necessary and natural. Likewise, the obedience of the wife to the husband should also reflect the personal and tender nature of their relationship. In particular, it should not be a forced obedience but rather should come naturally out of her love and respect for the husband.

http://www.themodernreligion.com/women/dv-4-34-shafaat.html

deols: a verse of the Qur'an that is commonly used during nikkah is


'from among his signs is this that he created for you mates from among yourselves that you may dwell in tranquility with each other...'

okay. cant remember the name of the chapter.

Many people fail to 'dwell in tranquility with each other by emphasising the not too important aspects of marriage, only put in place for the more important(dwelling in tranquility) to be easy.

In fact, we need to discuss ds verse on d muslim singles thread.

Its Quran 30:21

And of His signs is that He created for you from yourselves mates that you may find tranquillity in them; and He placed between you affection and mercy. Indeed in that are signs for a people who give thought.

^I am imagining that a woman is sure of her husband's love for her. That is why she would marry him in the first place. Based on this, why would she think that submitting to the love her life would translate to him misusing his authority and abusing her?

Should it not be apparent to her that her submission would make him love, respect, cherish and honour her more?

Not only do the Islamic rules say it, it is pretty straightforward relationship building- a wife trusts her man and he in turn honours her.

maclatunji: Based on this, why would she think that submitting to the love her life would translate to him misusing his authority and abusing her?.

Because power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely?

maclatunji: ^I am imagining that a woman is sure of her husband's love for her. That is why she would marry him in the first place. Based on this, why would she think that submitting to the love her life would translate to him misusing his authority and abusing her?

Should it not be apparent to her that her submission would make him love, respect, cherish and honour her more?

Not only do the Islamic rules say it, it is pretty straightforward relationship building- a wife trusts her man and he in turn honours her.

And I am imagining that a man is sure of his wife's love for him. That is why he would marry her in the first place.

What's good for the gander is good for the goose.

Should it not be apparent to him that his show of kindness and tenderness would make her love, respect, cherish and honour him more?

Why should it the wife that has to show compromise It takes two to tango.

mdsocks:

And I am imagining that a man is sure of his wife's love for him. That is why he would marry her in the first place.

What's good for the gander is good for the goose.

Should it not be apparent to him that his show of kindness and tenderness would make her love, respect, cherish and honour him more?

Why should it the wife that has to show compromise It takes two to tango.

beautiful

@maclatunji, does islam command that you must love your wife and sacrifice for her?

mdsocks:

And I am imagining that a man is sure of his wife's love for him. That is why he would marry her in the first place.

What's good for the gander is good for the goose.

Should it not be apparent to him that his show of kindness and tenderness would make her love, respect, cherish and honour him more?

Why should it the wife that has to show compromise It takes two to tango.

So how does showing love, kindness and tenderness remove the fact that decisions have to be made within the family and when there is a deadlock, it is the husband's perogative to take a decision?

Mr_Anony: @maclatunji, does islam command that you must love your wife and sacrifice for her?

Absolutely.

Seun:
Because power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely?

Thankfully, the power here is not absolute. You are someone that took the decision to move to this new Nairaland against the wishes of the majority because you knew it was the right decision.

Ditto for the husband, there are times when he will have his way after his wife has had her say. He just has to ensure he is taking the right decision- QED.

maclatunji: You are someone that took the decision to move to this new Nairaland against the wishes of the majority because you knew it was the right decision.

I could only do that because Nairaland is my property. Are you suggesting that every family is the husband's property?

maclatunji:

Absolutely.

Good, then you will agree that islam needs you to submit to your wife as well as she submits to you because love demands that you sacrifice your pleasure for the pleasure of the one you love. And while it doesn't take away your right as a man to lead your family, it definitely prevents your from lording it over her and bossing your wife around.

Mr_Anony:
Good, then you will agree that islam needs you to submit to your wife as well as she submits to you because love demands that you sacrifice your pleasure for the pleasure of the one you love. And while it doesn't take away your right as a man to lead your family, it definitely prevents your from lording it over her and bossing your wife around.

That is your personal deduction. Islam does not work like that. It is totally unislamic to say that a man should submit to his wife. That is one of the dangers of those who antagonise my position which agrees with the opening post , they risk antagonising Islam.

Seun:
I could only do that because Nairaland is my property. Are you suggesting that every family is the husband's property?

Every family is the husband's responsibility. Similar rules apply.

maclatunji:

That is your personal deduction. Islam does not work like that. It is totally unislamic to say that a man should submit to his wife. That is one of the dangers of those who antagonise my position which agrees with the opening post , they risk antagonising Islam.

what then is love if it does not entail giving up your desires for those of another. I hope you do realize that the moment you sacrifice your will in favor of the will of someone else, you have submitted to that person.
If love as defined by islam does not involve sacrifice, how then does islam define love?

Mr_Anony:
what then is love if it does not entail giving up your desires for those of another. I hope you do realize that the moment you sacrifice your will in favor of the will of someone else, you have submitted to that person.
If love as defined by islam does not involve sacrifice, how then does islam define love?

In Islam, our wills are submitted to God and adherence to his injunctions, you cannot submit to your wife as the leader of your home, that is not love at all. It is God that has made the man the head of the home with lots of responsibilities.

Now in Management, assigning responsibility without backing it up with authority is a recipe for disaster. God being the supreme Manager has prevented that.

This is an example of what happens when responsibility is given without authority- http://www.techrepublic.com/article/assign-responsibility-and-authority/1046495?mobileView=fullonce

maclatunji:

In Islam, our wills are submitted to God and adherence to his injunctions, you cannot submit to your wife as the leader of your home, that is not love at all. It is God that has made the man the head of the home with lots of responsibilities.

Now in Management, assigning responsibility without backing it up with authority is a recipe for disaster. God being the supreme Manager has prevented that.

This is an example of what happens when responsibility is given without authority- http://www.techrepublic.com/article/assign-responsibility-and-authority/1046495?mobileView=fullonce

What is the difference between love and submission?

maclatunji:

In Islam, our wills are submitted to God and adherence to his injunctions, you cannot submit to your wife as the leader of your home, that is not love at all. It is God that has made the man the head of the home with lots of responsibilities.

Now in Management, assigning responsibility without backing it up with authority is a recipe for disaster. God being the supreme Manager has prevented that.

This is an example of what happens when responsibility is given without authority- http://www.techrepublic.com/article/assign-responsibility-and-authority/1046495?mobileView=fullonce

My friend, I am not disputing your "husband authority" neither am I disputing that your will is subject to God but then surely you don't ask God for permission when you want to eat or sleep or type a comment on Nairaland. You do it because you want to do it. God allowed you to use your willpower to do what you wanted to do. I am sure that you don't believe that God is controlling all your actions and making a robot out of you.

The question I am asking you is simple. Does your love allow for your wife to sometimes make you do something you didn't want to do in the first place?
If it does, then sometimes you submit to your wife's will. If it doesn't, then explain to me what kind of love you have that doesn't allow your lover to influence your will

Mr_Anony:
While I can kinda guess what you are trying to say, I would like to know what you consider reasonable submission or if you are against the idea of submission entirely.

Islam charges wives to be submissive to their husbands, and for husbands to be kind to their wives.
Submission or to submit means to give in to a higher power or authority. Giving in does not imply doing something willingly but rather, putting your personal preference aside for that of whoever you are giving into.
Kindness means showing goodness or favour or compassion.
For a marriage to last, it must include understanding and cooperation between both the husband and wife. Both parties must work hand in hand with each other to ensure that unity and peace lasts in the marriage. Men (and women) must make sure that their spouse is constantly in agreement with whatever major decision they take in the marriage. The peace and unity I spoke of earlier cannot be acheived if one party is constantly giving in to the other or giving up their preference for the other person. If you take the Islamic laws about kind treatment of women into consideration, you find that the husband has to take his wife's opinion seriously before he takes any major decision in the marriage if he want to be truly kind to her. What he does is consult her first and find out how okay she is with his ideas before he implements them. When he constantly does this, the type of relationship between them ends up being one of cooperation and understanding and not one where one person is required to constantly submit to the other. The way I see it, the Islamic laws in place ensures that a married couple is always in agreement with each other and the matter of one spouse constantly submitting becomes redundant.

Secondly, Is the a law in or set of laws in Islam that forces the men to love their wives and sacrifice for them?

Such laws exist. Although the laws are meant to be followed willingly and not forcefully, as all other Islamic laws. There is no force or compulsion in Islam. Some verses of the Qur'an that talk about kind treatment of women (Qur'an 2:229) . . ."keep them (your wives) in good fellowship or let them go in kindness."
(Qur'an 4:19) And treat them (your wives) kindly, then if you hate them, it may be that you dislike a thing while Allah has placed abundant good in it".

Seun:
I could only do that because Nairaland is my property. Are you suggesting that every family is the[b] husband's property[/b]?

Perfect question...is the family the sole property of the husband?

maclatunji:

In Islam, our wills are submitted to God and adherence to his injunctions, you cannot submit to your wife as the leader of your home, that is not love at all. It is God that has made the man the head of the home with lots of responsibilities.

Responsibilities that you need to dispense with love and respect and not bossing around.

Good job mdsocks! Am impressed

fellis:
Islam charges wives to be submissive to their husbands, and for husbands to be kind to their wives.
Submission or to submit means to give in to a higher power or authority. Giving in does not imply doing something willingly but rather, putting your personal preference aside for that of whoever you are giving into.
Kindness means showing goodness or favour or compassion.
For a marriage to last, it must include understanding and cooperation between both the husband and wife. Both parties must work hand in hand with each other to ensure that unity and peace lasts in the marriage. Men (and women) must make sure that their spouse is constantly in agreement with whatever major decision they take in the marriage. The peace and unity I spoke of earlier cannot be acheived if one party is constantly giving in to the other or giving up their preference for the other person. If you take the Islamic laws about kind treatment of women into consideration, you find that the husband has to take his wife's opinion seriously before he takes any major decision in the marriage if he want to be truly kind to her. What he does is consult her first and find out how okay she is with his ideas before he implements them. When he constantly does this, the type of relationship between them ends up being one of cooperation and understanding and not one where one person is required to constantly submit to the other. The way I see it, the Islamic laws in place ensures that a married couple is always in agreement with each other and the matter of one spouse constantly submitting becomes redundant.

Such laws exist. Although the laws are meant to be followed willingly and not forcefully, as all other Islamic laws. There is no force or compulsion in Islam. Some verses of the Qur'an that talk about kind treatment of women (Qur'an 2:229) . . ."keep them (your wives) in good fellowship or let them go in kindness."
(Qur'an 4:19) And treat them (your wives) kindly, then if you hate them, it may be that you dislike a thing while Allah has placed abundant good in it".

Finally, you are speaking my language.