I speak specifically of prayers of petition: wherein the praying persons request x or y help, act, rescue or favour from God.

Is such divine intervention consistent with the notion of a perfect God?

Deep Sight:
I speak specifically of prayers of petition: wherein the praying persons request x or y help, act, rescue or favour from God.

Is such divine intervention consistent with the notion of a perfect God?

Don't really get your question but if Christ intercedes for us, and we are to be Christ-like, we can also intercede on behalf of someone

^^^ Well let me try to clarify the question a little.

- Does a perfect, omniscient and omnipotent God, who has set out the laws of his creation from the dawn of time, need to intervene within the said creation at the behest of his creatures to set this or that right? Ought not the laws of creation already be sufficient for all purposes in light of the perfection of God?

I suppose that a perfect god would make a perfect world,ergo,the need wouldn't arise to ask anything of him since his creation is also perfect.

Beretta92: I suppose that a perfect god would make a perfect world,ergo,the need wouldn't arise to ask anything of him since his creation is also perfect.

And so is God imperfect or Creation imperfect, or is it simply, as I suspect it is - that there is no need for prayer whatsoever and one only needs to attune oneself to natural laws given by the creator.

You do not attune yasef to them, and you end up screaming "Fire! Fire! ! Fire ! ! !" and "Die! Die! Die!" IN your local Mountain of Fire Church. . . .

Deep Sight:
^^^ Well let me try to clarify the question a little.

- Does a perfect, omniscient and omnipotent God, who has set out the laws of his creation from the dawn of time, need to intervene within the said creation at the behest of his creatures to set this or that right? Ought not the laws of creation already be sufficient for all purposes in light of the perfection of God?

Beretta92: I suppose that a perfect god would make a perfect world,ergo,the need wouldn't arise to ask anything of him since his creation is also perfect.

Assuming god and assuming perfection unto god, I see no reason why it cannot make an imperfect world, provided that that was its intention to begin with.

Say for amusement.

I think the only logical assumption to be made is that a perfect god would execute its intentions perfectly and not that all its creations must be perfect.
My two cents.

Deep Sight:
I speak specifically of prayers of petition: wherein the praying persons request x or y help, act, rescue or favour from God.

Is such divine intervention consistent with the notion of a perfect God?

i think yes in some situations but God cannot be expected to intervene in all situations, as in situations where the people competing against each other ask for a win

Deep Sight:
I speak specifically of prayers of petition: wherein the praying persons request x or y help, act, rescue or favour from God.

Is such divine intervention consistent with the notion of a perfect God?

- In theories such as the Clockwork Universe Theory held by some Deists, God - if still present in the scheme - does not interrupt the flow of events in creation
- However in some other worldviews like Christianity it is believed that perfect God interacts with the creation, and may interrupt a flow of events at will
- If we're discussing such as the Christian God, then the belief is like the above: God interacts with creation at his own behest
- In such a worldview the creation is not a closed system (isolated from God) and the creation, unlike God, is deemed imperfect
- Thus such worldviews believe a perfect God can choose to interact with such an imperfect system
- As in every scientific process: a perfect theory is imbued with minor tolerances to allow for an imperfect real scenario
- A perfect God will likewise have a well-defined means by which He intends to purify / maintain symmetry / sustain balance in the imperfect world. This is the theory, and it is just as perfect when applied to a perfect creation if it so exists.
- A perfect God interacting with an imperfect creation in a semi-closed system will likewise sensibly maintain a level of tolerance / minor allowances for deviation from the perfect plan.
- It is thus consistent in those worldviews that a perfect God can choose to pay occasional mind to petitions, requests and favours provided they are within tolerance of His own volition.

I surmise that the laws of creation will be sufficient for a majority of events and outcomes. There will however be fringe experiences (referred to as miracles), the occasional anomalies and the benefits of our hindsight in recognizing seeming coincidences. These three kinds of outcomes are consistent with perfect natural laws and the perfect God that established them, considering the fact that they are interacting with imperfect creation.

Deep Sight:
I speak specifically of prayers of petition: wherein the praying persons request x or y help, act, rescue or favour from God.

Is such divine intervention consistent with the notion of a perfect God?

Yes ,God himself commanded it to be so. Dont you train children under your custody to learn to ask before doing certain things. "Daffy can I go out " or I need. A bicycle .

InesQor: I surmise that the laws of creation will be sufficient for a majority of events and outcomes. There will however be fringe experiences (referred to as miracles), the occasional anomalies and the benefits of our hindsight in recognizing seeming coincidences. These three kinds of outcomes are consistent with perfect natural laws and the perfect God that established them, considering the fact that they are interacting with imperfect creation.

point of correction..miracles are not fringe experiences...they are daily occurences.

Bidam: point of correction..miracles are not fringe experiences...they are daily occurences.

point of correction..miracles are events that cant happen

ooman:

point of correction..miracles are events that cant happen

can you create life?

Bidam: can you create life?

science is getting at it. YES, but not yet, very soon. there is nothing special in creating life in the lab.

ooman:

science is getting at it. YES, but not yet, very soon. there is nothing special in creating life in the lab.

delusions of grandeur

Bidam: point of correction..miracles are not fringe experiences...they are daily occurences.

What do you understand by the term "Fringe experiences"?

Bidam: delusions of grandeur

you can say that again and again until it happens, but for now, i lay low.

@Bidam:

Are you familiar with quantitative data analysis? Measures of statistical dispersion and central tendency?

Deep Sight:

And so is God imperfect or Creation imperfect, or is it simply, as I suspect it is - that there is no need for prayer whatsoever and one only needs to attune oneself to natural laws given by the creator.

You do not attune yasef to them, and you end up screaming "Fire! Fire! ! Fire ! ! !" and "Die! Die! Die!" IN your local Mountain of Fire Church. . . .

I personally believe that if god/gods exist,he/they are more likely to be the deistic type.Hence,prayer is a complete waste of time.

jayriginal:



Assuming god and assuming perfection unto god, I see no reason why it cannot make an imperfect world, provided that that was its intention to begin with.

Say for amusement.

I think the only logical assumption to be made is that a perfect god would execute its intentions perfectly and not that all its creations must be perfect.
My two cents.

I think it boils down to what you define as perfection/imperfection.For example,with all the 'imperfection' in the world/creation,Spinoza would still assert that everything is necessary and perfect.That humans only lack the ability to perceive this.I personally do not think god,if he exists,is perfect.