Bidam: Ok the high priest is no longer Aaron a levite but Jesus Christ( Melchizedek). the ordinances and the sacrifices were fulfilled by the death of Jesus Christ.All Levitical authorities and responsibilities—which would include receiving tithes—have transferred to Him, who is also the Head of the church. Jesus gives authority in the church to His ministers to conduct His work on earth in His stead.So tithing should be a test and act of faith, a good work that pleases God.

Pastor Kun:

Although it has long been established on this forum that you are a charlatan and a fraudster, I would still ask for the benefit of those that could be deceived by your rants to show us from scriptures where it was stated that the levitical rights to receive tithes as been transferred to the priesthood of Jesus as Jesus himself NEVER collected tithes and neither did his disciples collect on his behalf after his death and resurrection.

Bidam: emotional rants..what do you know about scriptures? God doesn't cast precious pearls before swines.

It should be noted that Bidam has a penchant for avoiding answers to questions.

But I wish to refer to the bolded above because they bring the following issues:

1. The Levithical priesthood has been transferred to Jesus priesthood.
2. Jesus has in turn given the job of the priesthood to ministers who can now collect the tithe.

The above are conclusions that can be deduced logically but NEVER on the authority of scripture. What hebrew 7 teaches is not a transfer of priesthood but a change. It goes further to say that because there is a change in priesthood there has also been a change in law. The change in law, if we may permit scripture to interpret scripture, has of necessity to be a change from a law of sin and death: mosaic law, the that say you will die when you sin; to a law of Spirit of Life: the law that says when we walk in the Spirit we would have the life of Christ.
So to deduce that there was a literal transfer from levites to Jesus is to make deductions that the bible does not make.

2. Jesus did not make minister new generation priests: what scripture teaches is that we all, believers, have been made kings and priests unto our God. And it has been pointed out in this forum that priest do not pay tithe. Along with this, the reformers enacted the doctrine of Priesthood of all Believers, which they correctly deduced from scripture and used to counter Rome's dominance of Christians in the medieval times. Now when the church begins to rot and wane, we begin again to re-enact the priesthood of certain individual and not remind ourselves that we are all priests before God. No other doctrine and practise does this better than paying tithe to a pastors.

DrummaBoy:

But the bolded is exactly what Olaadegbu teaches with his visions of hell on this forum and you very well agree with him.

That is by the way. You did not answer my question: Is tithing different from circumcision?

I believe this queshion has been answered already in this forum but you keep asking it as if you want to build a doctrine on it. God's intent has always been the circumcision of the heart.Deuteronomy 30:6(1-10) - vs. 6: "Moreover the Lord your God will circumcise your heart and the heart of your descendants, to love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul, so that you may live." Which was graphically captured and illustrated by Paul here

Romans 2:28-29(17-29) - vs. 28-29: "For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh. But he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that which is of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter; and his praise is not from men, but from God." so if you are talking about tithing as a spiritual principle revealed by God in the hearts of Christians i would say we are on the same page ok?

Bidam: so if you are talking about tithing as a spiritual principle revealed by God in the hearts of Christians i would say we are on the same page ok?

I am not too sure if we are on the same page

Because if you agree that circumcision has changed, and that God would not have us glory in the flesh; why do you think the means by which God would have us support minister won't change? You normally carp on the tithe being a spiritual principle that was transferred from the old to the new; but has it occurred to you that the principle in tithing is simply that God would have his work supported on earth: the mouth of the ox that threshes the wheat should not be covered. But like circumcision, the manner this support comes has changed. In the old it was tithe; in the new it is free will offering.

The issue of glorying in the flesh is not just that some people rejoice over seeing shed blood from a male organ. No. What Paul meant by glorying in the flesh is that some people find right standing by what they do with God: legalism - which is exactly what an obligatory paying of 10% of one income is every month/week, as the case may be.

Bidam, you however did not refer to the issue Kun raised and which you mentioned. Are there scriptural evidence to show that there was a transfer of OT levithical priesthood to Jesus and ministers today?

Zikkyy:

We are saying the same thing. We are now priests and so can only tithe when we receive tithe. You should understand that the Levite only tithe from the tithe they received from the people. They had farmland, they had animals but they were only required to tithe from what they received from the people. Shine your eye when reading the bible reference below.

Numbers 18:25-29 (NIV)
25 The Lord said to Moses, 26 “Speak to the Levites and say to them: ‘When you receive from the Israelites the tithe I give you as your inheritance, you must present a tenth of that tithe as the Lord’s offering. 27 Your offering will be reckoned to you as grain from the threshing floor or juice from the winepress. 28 In this way you also will present an offering to the Lord from all the tithes you receive from the Israelites. From these tithes you must give the Lord’s portion to Aaron the priest. 29 You must present as the Lord’s portion the best and holiest part of everything given to you.’

The Levites were not required to tithe from what they produced. If there is no tithe from the people, the priestly tribe will not tithe. They tithed only from the tithe they received. It's a two legged transaction. Now we are all priests, it therefore mean tithe cannot be received anymore. Unless you want to go collect nuts from monkeys and render a tenth to your pastor. That's as close as you can get



Anyways, we being priest is still no justification for us paying God's tithe. God's tithe was meant for the Levites as their inheritance and God did not write a new will taking that portion of their inheritance away from them and giving it to your pastor, and he did not write a new will that says we Christians should give 10% of our income to the pastor. My brother what you are paying is pastoral tithe. An invention of man.

We started with Heb7 where one mr.kun said tithe was abolished and i said it was actually buttressed and expounded by Paul. you don't even need to go in lengthy exegesis of the OT. I actually quoted this scripture in response to shdemidemi who foolishly claimed the levites do not tithes ok? In Hebrews 7:1-10 The levites were priest because of their ancestry, but Christ is our High priest by a personal oath from God. Since God has made Jesus a priest in the order of Melchizedek, it follows that Jesus is greater than Aaron. But What this implies is another matter o. The queshion you should ask yourself zikky is why does the superiority of the Melchizedekian priesthood imply the abolition of the tithe? Being under the administration of a superior priesthood does not automatically mean that one does not need to tithe.

Zikkyy:

I can see you no longer have anything to say. continue shaking ya head

when you twist and turn my words to mean another matter entirely by editing the post i made you are now telling me i have nothing to say. you need your head examined bro. you are actually being dishonest here.

Bidam: The queshion you should ask yourself zikky is why does the superiority of the Melchizedekian priesthood imply the abolition of the tithe? Being under the administration of a superior priesthood does not automatically mean that one does not need to tithe.

Hebrew 7:11-12 If therefore perfection were by the Levithical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law), what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchizedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron? For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.

Being under a superior priesthood does mean that there is no need to tithe. If there was a need to tithe, Christ, who began his priesthood here on earth, before even going to the cross, would have received tithe of men. He would have commanded it to his disciples and not just mention it as a little matter of the law to pharisees. Paul, who wrote to the churches would have emphasized it in his pastoral epistles.

Tithing, which was a means of support for OT levithes and priest, has been changed to free will offering to ministers. It is this free will offering that Jesus ministry was supported with; and it is what Paul encouraged Christians to practise. I agree with Frosbel and Kun here, there is a possibility the reason why some emphasize the tithe so much is bc it gives ministers the liberty to witch hunt people and to forcefully make them part with their hard earned resources. if our giving is by any such coercion or obligation, it is no giving at all. And it should be stopped. Thus the reason tithing must be abolished.

Now this free will offering is what Goshen360 (where is he sef?) calls grace giving.

And the concept of grace giving is fantastic. It is simply giving as you motivated by God to. When there is grace giving, then we expect that only those whose heart God has touched by grace will give. It would mean that a hardened sinner, who is simply religious, would not have to tithe. Since he has no grace in his heart, he would not give; and God does not need such money in the first place (This is one of the downsides of tithing; it becomes a religious exercise that some people do to buy God's favor, regardless of how they live).

But the beauty of grace giving is that people have liberty to do as God leads them. They give as they buy into a vision. They would even begin to give beyond 10% and such people would never be able to glory in how much they give because it is by grace: they give as they have been given, and rejoice in God and not how much tithe they paid over the years.

Truth is that grace giving may not bring as much money as tithe will bring at first but subsequently it will surpass tithe giving. I am convinced that NT support for the gospel is based on how much God has touched men's heart with his grace through his Spirit and that tithing is an antithesis to grace.

DrummaBoy:


It should be noted that Bidam has a penchant for avoiding answers to questions.

very rich coming from you who has a penchant for folly..where did i avoid your answers? Maybe because am tired of repeating myself to obstinate fellows who already have a preconceived notions of the answers before asking Christians just to spite them

But I wish to refer to the bolded above because they bring the following issues:

1. The Levithical priesthood has been transferred to Jesus priesthood.
2. Jesus has in turn given the job of the priesthood to ministers who can now collect the tithe.

The above are conclusions that can be deduced logically but NEVER on the authority of scripture. What hebrew 7 teaches is not a transfer of priesthood but a change.

semantics.transfer and change na the same thing. If you transfer your property to a new house from an old one does it necessary mean you did not change your house? only the container was changed, the content and substance remain the same. God is the content and substance, the container is the human vessels He uses for His Glory.

It goes further to say that because there is a change in priesthood there has also been a change in law. The change in law, if we may permit scripture to interpret scripture, has of necessity to be a change from a law of sin and death: mosaic law, the that say you will die when you sin; to a law of Spirit of Life: the law that says when we walk in the Spirit we would have the life of Christ.

lies from the pit of hell scriptures in heb 7 did not categorically state that the mosaic laws were changed. i knew that is what you will say next.second Gosh in action.We are to rightly divide the word of truth and am afraid you are not doing justice here. 0k so tell us the laws that was changed; moral laws, ceremonial laws or civil laws
lemme help you since you guys are dull in hearing..the only laws that changed is the ordinances and sacrifices nothing more nothing less. Christ has offered himself as the perfect sacrifice once and for all so no need for you drumma boy to take a goat,dove etc to see the High Priest. Infact tithes was before the law..so your argument is weak here.

So to deduce that there was a literal transfer from levites to Jesus is to make deductions that the bible does not make.

i don explain that one already..see the above.

2. Jesus did not make minister new generation priests: what scripture teaches is that we all, believers, have been made kings and priests unto our God. And it has been pointed out in this forum that priest do not pay tithe. Along with this, the reformers enacted the doctrine of Priesthood of all Believers, which they correctly deduced from scripture and used to counter Rome's dominance of Christians in the medieval times. Now when the church begins to rot and wane, we begin again to re-enact the priesthood of certain individual and not remind ourselves that we are all priests before God. No other doctrine and practise does this better than paying tithe to a pastors.

All this one na copy paste. Paul actually debunked this you statement: 1 Corinthians 9

New International Version (NIV) 7 Who serves as a soldier at his own expense? Who plants a vineyard and does not eat its grapes? Who tends a flock and does not drink the milk? 8 Do I say this merely on human authority? Doesn’t the Law say the same thing? 9 For it is written in the Law of Moses: “Do not muzzle an ox while it is treading out the grain.” Is it about oxen that God is concerned? 10 Surely he says this for us, doesn’t he? Yes, this was written for us, because whoever plows and threshes should be able to do so in the hope of sharing in the harvest. 11 [b]If we have sown spiritual seed among you, is it too much if we reap a material harvest from you? 12 If others have this right of support from you, shouldn’t we have it all the more?

But we did not use this right. On the contrary, we put up with anything rather than hinder the gospel of Christ.

13 Don’t you know that those who serve in the temple get their food from the temple, and that those who serve at the altar share in what is offered on the altar? 14 In the same way, the Lord has commanded that those who preach the gospel should receive their living from the gospel.

[quote author=DrummaBoy]

Hebrew 7:11-12 If therefore perfection were by the Levithical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law), what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchizedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron? For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.

Being under a superior priesthood does mean that there is no need to tithe. If there was a need to tithe, Christ, who began his priesthood here on earth, before even going to the cross, would have received tithe of men.

Very foolish and idiotic statement.The New covenant actually started when Christ died, was buried and resurrected. If not why should Paul write the full blood covenant book of Hebrews with copious quote from OT scriptures

He would have commanded it to his disciples and not just mention it as a little matter of the law to pharisees

.Another foolish reasoning, excluding the gentile nations as partakers of Christ nature? i dey enjoy you sha.

Paul, who wrote to the churches would have emphasized it in his pastoral epistles.

ofcos he did. Hebrews 7:1-10 which you are blind to and 1 cor 9 which you were deaf to.

Tithing, which was a means of support for OT levithes and priest, has been changed to free will offering to ministers. It is this free will offering that Jesus ministry was supported with; and it is what Paul encouraged Christians to practise. I agree with Frosbel and Kun here, there is a possibility the reason why some emphasize the tithe so much is bc it gives ministers the liberty to witch hunt people and to forcefully make them part with their hard earned resources. if our giving is by any such coercion or obligation, it is no giving at all. And it should be stopped. Thus the reason tithing must be abolished.

Aha.. i knew it.The Chameleon has finally showed his true form..Why waste my time if you are not ready to be teachable I think am done here. LET ME MOVE ON TO BETTER THINGS ABEG.

^^^That is fine with me

We disagree to disagree

But before you go permit a rejoinder to your posts

Bidam: very rich coming from you who has a penchant for folly.

That is an allegation but I will let it pass

where did i avoid your answers? Maybe because am tired of repeating myself to obstinate fellows who already have a preconceived notions of the answers before asking Christians just to spite them

I understand you there; it happens to me too. But you should understand that we may not share same Christian stands but I am a Christian, trying to understand your position and not to spite you. Atleast for now.

semantics.transfer and change na the same thing. If you transfer your property to a new house from an old one does it necessary mean you did not change your house? only the container was changed, the content and substance remain the same. God is the content and substance, the container is the human vessels He uses for His Glory.

Well anyone who read what you wrote when you used the word transfer or even reading what you read now will see that what you mean by transfer is simply to change the name levithes to Pastor/Ministers. But the word change that the scripture and I used means a total revamping of the system. A discarding of one, to begin another. The point is that the law and priesthood being changed, the container and content has changed. And pls don't use God as a content here; he is more than. He is the maker of the container and content and has chosen to change both in this dispensation.

lies from the pit of hell scriptures in heb 7 did not categorically state that the mosaic laws were changed. i knew that is what you will say next.second Gosh in action.We are to rightly divide the word of truth and am afraid you are not doing justice here. 0k so tell us the laws that was changed; moral laws, ceremonial laws or civil laws

I would answer you the same Way Goshen will. There is no moral, ceremonial or civil laws. Law is law. The distinction came with this modern bible teachers (and they are the worst of all times). And all of the law is done away with in the cross of Jesus.

Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,


Gal 5:23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

lemme help you since you guys are dull in hearing..the only laws that changed is the ordinances and sacrifices nothing more nothing less. Christ has offered himself as the perfect sacrifice once and for all so no need for you drumma boy to take a goat,dove etc to see the High Priest. Infact tithes was before the law..so your argument is weak here.
i don explain that one already..see the above.

Ok. If the only laws that changed where ordinances and sacrifices (by the way there is no evidence for this in the NT), why don't you practise the tithe the way Moses commanded it? Why do you tithe your income, when God commanded that agricultural produce were what was to be tithed? Why do you not practise the other types of tithing: giving to the widows and poor? Why do you not carry the tithe to temple/church once a year and gather and eat with loved ones? When did the three type of tithe, which Moses commanded, and which is 23% of a land's produce become 10% of your income? The point is that if you really want to tithe, do it the way Moses commanded it. In fact keep the whole law of Moses; because to break one is to break all!

All this one na copy paste. Paul actually debunked this you statement: 1 Corinthians 9

New International Version (NIV) 7 Who serves as a soldier at his own expense? Who plants a vineyard and does not eat its grapes? Who tends a flock and does not drink the milk? 8 Do I say this merely on human authority? Doesn’t the Law say the same thing? 9 For it is written in the Law of Moses: “Do not muzzle an ox while it is treading out the grain.” Is it about oxen that God is concerned? 10 Surely he says this for us, doesn’t he? Yes, this was written for us, because whoever plows and threshes should be able to do so in the hope of sharing in the harvest. 11 [b]If we have sown spiritual seed among you, is it too much if we reap a material harvest from you? 12 If others have this right of support from you, shouldn’t we have it all the more?

But we did not use this right. On the contrary, we put up with anything rather than hinder the gospel of Christ.

13 Don’t you know that those who serve in the temple get their food from the temple, and that those who serve at the altar share in what is offered on the altar? 14 In the same way, the Lord has commanded that those who preach the gospel should receive their living from the gospel.

There is no way one can read what Paul wrote in 1Corinthians 9 and see "Pay tithe" there. That scripture is the reason why ministers should be paid monthly salary from the free will offering given in church. Simple. Nothing more, nothing less. That scripture does not translate OT support for the levithes to NT support for pastors. If however that is the way you see it; that is the reason we cannot agree.

Thus we disagree to disagree.

Bidam:
The queshion you should ask yourself zikky is why does the superiority of the Melchizedekian priesthood imply the abolition of the tithe?

Which one be Melchizedekian priesthood again Anyways the only tithe i know to be abolished is God's tithe. You can continue paying the pastoral tithe to your pastor

Bidam:
Being under the administration of a superior priesthood does not automatically mean that one does not need to tithe.

You can tithe if you want. But you will not be tithing God's tithe. It will be a tithe as defined by your pastor or as defined by you (just like Jacob). it will be a personal vow between you and God. Will your tithe be accepted? i don't know. Probably depends on motive.

St.Ola:


Bro, so much analysis has been done on the Matthew parable already, but if you missed out I'll summarize for you.

Firstly, no one doubts that the Hebrews were obligated to tithe as contained in the body of laws they received from God. Tithes was mandated under the law

Secondly, the receivers of the tithes were the levites who had no land inheritance hence no land to cultivate.

The tithes paid was in the form of agricultural produce and not money, despite that money as an instrument of purchase and store of value and measure of wealth did exist, the Hebrews and latter Jews still maintained the agricultural nature of tithes.

Malachi is an old testament book and its most popular/bastardized text was addressed to the Jews holding priestly offices.

Thirdly, the Matthew parable of the pharisee and sinner (both of them Jews living under the law),underscores the following.

Christ reiterated that tithing was under the law.
Tithes for all its rigidity wasn't even considered one of the heavier matters of the law.
The pharisee(a Jew under the law) was still instructed not to leave his tithing undone as the law was still supreme at that time, seeing that the lamb of God had not been sacrificed and the new covenant that God had promised his people had not yet been established.
With the crucifixion and resurrection of Christ, the law and the levitical priesthood became obsolete as God had planned it. The burden of the law became fulfilled and it withered-away.

So the church and its leaders/clergy have no business with the law or with tithes. The levitical priesthood is no more. Christ never instructed his disciples to receive tithes, neither was it practised in biblical Christianity.
The origins of Christian tithing has been recorded as being over 500years after Christ and the early apostles.
This is historical fact that cannot be wished away.

Tithes do not belong to the church,rather they belong to an old and decayed law that profiteth a Christian nothing.

I will have mercy not sacrifice - JesusChrist.

@st. Ola, yes I know you will have many things to say about this. The weightier things the bible is talking about is holiness before tithing.A sinner paying tithe is just donation to that context. You need to be holy before you can work with holy things of God.
Secondly, if you are giver, whether to church or neighbours,you will not have a problem with this issue. After Christ, the apostles live in one accord, selling their goods and sharing among themselves, that even annanias and saphirra were slain for lying about. Have you done that yourself,atleast it started with the apostles. We have so many fake men of God today that has made the word of the bible questionable but the word of God is same yesterday,today and forever.
I have not seen a man that got poorer by paying tithes or giving but people that are greedy always look for people to give to them.
Test God and you will be blessed surely.
God bless you.

^After quoting St.Ola, one would have thought U would have grasped the issue only for U to begin talking holiness. Is that the issue here? The quote is the best summary I have seen on this tithe matter and it should lay all doubt down but if U remain unconvinced, the Lord help U.

DrummaBoy: Now this free will offering is what Goshen360 (where is he sef?) calls grace giving.

And the concept of grace giving is fantastic. It is simply giving as you motivated by God to. When there is grace giving, then we expect that only those whose heart God has touched by grace will give. It would mean that a hardened sinner, who is simply religious, would not have to tithe. Since he has no grace in his heart, he would not give; and God does not need such money in the first place (This is one of the downsides of tithing; it becomes a religious exercise that some people do to buy God's favor, regardless of how they live).

But the beauty of grace giving is that people have liberty to do as God leads them. They give as they buy into a vision. They would even begin to give beyond 10% and such people would never be able to glory in how much they give because it is by grace: they give as they have been given, and rejoice in God and not how much tithe they paid over the years.

Truth is that grace giving may not bring as much money as tithe will bring at first but subsequently it will surpass tithe giving. I am convinced that NT support for the gospel is based on how much God has touched men's heart with his grace through his Spirit and that tithing is an antithesis to grace.

Your story against tithing which you have been doing for 20yrs running and stopped is just a pure hatred for God and his ministers..nothing more..

DrummaBoy: ^^^That is fine with me

We disagree to disagree

Ok..best be careful not to steep into error! others have done this thinking they are actually on the right path.

DrummaBoy: But before you go permit a rejoinder to your posts

Ok since you begged me to come back no wahala. you are still a bro..despite some of your flaws and errors.

That is an allegation but I will let it pass

A fact not an allegation...i can go back and recoup from the archives some of the things you said in other threads on this forum.

I understand you there; it happens to me too. But you should understand that we may not share same Christian stands but I am a Christian, trying to understand your position and not to spite you. Atleast for now.

I am afraid your stand is beginning to deviate from what Christ taught in scriptures.

Well anyone who read what you wrote when you used the word transfer or even reading what you read now will see that what you mean by transfer is simply to change the name levithes to Pastor/Ministers. But the word change that the scripture and I used means a total revamping of the system. A discarding of one, to begin another. The point is that the law and priesthood being changed, the container and content has changed

. Your private interpretation i still repeat and not scriptures.Christ coming was to fulfill the law and not change or abolish the law.

And pls don't use God as a content here; he is more than. He is the maker of the container and content and has chosen to change both in this dispensation.

ofcos i am not belittling God here by saying He is the content and substance..i know He is the creator..when i say substance i am talking about the person of the Holy Spirit(God's Spirit) who is inside a believer.God of the Old is still the God of the New. He has not changed.

I would answer you the same Way Goshen will. There is no moral, ceremonial or civil laws. Law is law. The distinction came with this modern bible teachers (and they are the worst of all times). And all of the law is done away with in the cross of Jesus

. Yeah, a false doctrine which we tried in vain to correct goshen.

Ok. If the only laws that changed where ordinances and sacrifices (by the way there is no evidence for this in the NT), why don't you practise the tithe the way Moses commanded it? Why do you tithe your income, when God commanded that agricultural produce were what was to be tithed? Why do you not practise the other types of tithing: giving to the widows and poor? Why do you not carry the tithe to temple/church once a year and gather and eat with loved ones? When did the three type of tithe, which Moses commanded, and which is 23% of a land's produce become 10% of your income? The point is that if you really want to tithe, do it the way Moses commanded it. In fact keep the whole law of Moses; because to break one is to break all!

That is the lame and flimsy excuses you guys always come up with to evade the tithe and we have said times without number in this forum that the people of old are majorly agrarian and even at that no one is stopping you to bring your farm produce if you feel that is the best way you can offer God your tithe. It is a thing of the heart really.

There is no way one can read what Paul wrote in 1Corinthians 9 and see "Pay tithe" there. That scripture is the reason why ministers should be paid monthly salary from the free will offering given in church. Simple. Nothing more, nothing less. That scripture does not translate OT support for the levithes to NT support for pastors. If however that is the way you see it; that is the reason we cannot agree.

Paul doesn't have to mention it..that particular scripture implied it because he quoted from the OT to drive home a point.

Thus we disagree to disagree.[/quote]

Zikkyy:

Which one be Melchizedekian priesthood again

It is just like saying Aaronic Preisthood of OT.

Anyways the only tithe i know to be abolished is God's tithe.

And you failed woefully to provide scriptures from the NT.

You can continue paying the pastoral tithe to your pastor

God's tithe you mean to say.

You can tithe if you want. But you will not be tithing God's tithe. It will be a tithe as defined by your pastor or as defined by you (just like Jacob). it will be a personal vow between you and God. Will your tithe be accepted? i don't know. Probably depends on motive.

ofcos i will be tithing God's tithe and what sort of motive are you talking about.

@Bidam

I'm on phone now so I am limited to how much I can say but I will chip in somethings

I tithed 15yrs. I got convinced against it and I stopped. My thinking now about the tithe is that while indeed it has been abused by the church, many others are still using it to great advantage.

Same way God permitted the Jews to divorce, etc, which Jesus eventually corrected @ his coming is the same way he's has permitted the tithe. His perfect will of course is grace giving but if tithe is what his people understand, he permits it until a season like this.

Now, I am indeed upset with the way church is running (any sound believer should be) but I say this before God (and I have judged my heart), my position on tithing is not due to any offence at all

I just feel the time has come to set the record straight.

Bidam, U have done well but U have not been convincing at all. Change is difficult and transcending a tradition to another comes with resistance. One can understand ur plight

DrummaBoy: @Bidam

I'm on phone now so I am limited to how much I can say but I will chip in somethings

I tithed 15yrs. I got convinced against it and I stopped. My thinking now about the tithe is that while indeed it has been abused by the church, many others are still using it to great advantage.

Same way God permitted the Jews to divorce, etc, which Jesus eventually corrected @ his coming is the same way he's has permitted the tithe. His perfect will of course is grace giving but if tithe is what his people understand, he permits it until a season like this.

Now, I am indeed upset with the way church is running (any sound believer should be) but I say this before God (and I have judged my heart), my position on tithing is not due to any offence at all

I just feel the time has come to set the record straight.

Bidam, U have done well but U have not been convincing at all. Change is difficult and transcending a tradition to another comes with resistance. One can understand ur plight

I can understand your plight which i quite agree to concerning ministers who in their appeal for tithe use manipulation and fear to motivate the people to part with their money. Believers grudgingly or blindly give without any more understanding than the bible says to do it, or that in giving they can become materially prosperous. Instead of linking the people of God, the misapplication of this teaching has in many cases divided the people of God, each seeking their own good and not that of the Body.
On the divorce issue you don't even compare them at all. God already said He hates divorce.(Malachi 2:16) He never said He hates the tithes, even our Lord Jesus explained to the stiff necked pharisees that in the beginning it was not so. so don't even compare them cos tithes actually predates the Law.The marriage in itself is actually a covenant as explained by Paul concerning Christ and His bride(the church).

^Now since you say the tithe predates the law and use this as a justification for tithe, I argue that circumcision also predated the law - why did Paul vehemently oppose as it as we see in Acts 15:2 and other scriptures.

Now you claim you made clear the distinction btw circumcision and tithe in this forum, unfortunately I have not seen that discuss.

Like I said earlier God never gave a clear command for tithe until the law but he gave a clear command for circumcision b4 the law in Genesis 17:9-14. If this same God through inspiration in Paul say circumcision ended at the cross and our glory now is in a spiritual circumcision; how much tithe: that he never gave a command on?

That Abraham tithed war spoils pre-law is not a justification for NT tithing. Its been made clear that Abraham tithed spoils not his income; and that was once and not routine. Heb 7 discusses the supremacy of Christ priesthood/covenant. It doesn't need tithe to sustain it.

Bidam:
so don't even compare them cos tithes actually predates the Law.

Even if tithe (giving of tenths) predates Adam & Eve, it will not change anything. The only tithe commanded by God was the one given to (and strictly for) the Israelite through Moses.

Bidam:
ofcos i will be tithing God's tithe and what sort of motive are you talking about.

There no way you will ever understand what you are paying/tithing, when you cannot even describe/define God's tithe. abi you think any 10% is God's tithe.

DrummaBoy: ^Now since you say the tithe predates the law and use this as a justification for tithe, I argue that circumcision also predated the law - why did Paul vehemently oppose as it as we see in Acts 15:2 and other scriptures.

Gentiles who don't even Know the israel God also perform circumcision..so your argument is weak here.

Now you claim you made clear the distinction btw circumcision and tithe in this forum, unfortunately I have not seen that discuss

. Go back and check I think alwaystrue or image made justice to that. I can't be the only Christian here that has a monopoly of revelations.

Like I said earlier God never gave a clear command for tithe until the law but he gave a clear command for circumcision b4 the law in Genesis 17:9-14. If this same God through inspiration in Paul say circumcision ended at the cross and our glory now is in a spiritual circumcision; how much tithe: that he never gave a command on?

You still keep repeating yoursef..i don hear o..pls go thru the archives once again o.

That Abraham tithed war spoils pre-law is not a justification for NT tithing. Its been made clear that Abraham tithed spoils not his income; and that was once and not routine. Heb 7 discusses the supremacy of Christ priesthood/covenant. It doesn't need tithe to sustain it.

Flimsy and irrelevant..everything in scripture was written for our learning.

Zikkyy:

Even if tithe (giving of tenths) predates Adam & Eve, it will not change anything. The only tithe commanded by God was the one given to (and strictly for) the Israelite through Moses.

OK sir..i hear sir. Abraham wasn't even an Israelite to start with yet he tithed.

There no way you will ever understand what you are paying/tithing, when you cannot even describe/define God's tithe. abi you think any 10% is God's tithe.

see ya life..where you not the one that quoted tithe as 10% just now.

Bidam:
OK sir..i hear sir. Abraham wasn't even an Israelite to start with yet he tithed.

Abrahams tithe was not the tithe commanded by God. God did not say Abrahams type of tithe (war spoils) was sacred to him. In fact Abrahams type of tithe (war spoils) was nailed to the temple's wall when moses gave the law. You will observe that God did not command the Israelite to tithe war spoils (and they did not). So if you like tithe all ya income, as long as it is not the tithe described in Leviticus, you are only tithing pastoral tithe.

Bidam:
see ya life..where you not the one that quoted tithe as 10% just now.

That must have been the time i was referring to the pastoral tithe. God's tithe is different and it is not always 10%.

Zikkyy:
Abrahams tithe was not the tithe commanded by God. God did not say Abrahams type of tithe (war spoils) was sacred to him. In fact Abrahams type of tithe (war spoils) was nailed to the temple's wall when moses gave the law. You will observe that God did not command the Israelite to tithe war spoils (and they did not). So if you like tithe all ya income, as long as it is not the tithe described in Leviticus, you are only tithing pastoral tithe.

flimsy and irrelevant, thousands of wars were fought in those days by tribes who want to gain land and spoils, so Abraham's war is no exception. Even after God gave the laws to Moses are wars not being fought in isreal are spoils not being taken so i don't get your analogy of war spoils being nailed to the temple wall o..pls explain with scriptures abeg. Even before God gave Moses the law on Sinai. it is declared in Genesis 26:5, "Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws."
so pls explain to us the bolded

That must have been the time i was referring to the pastoral tithe. God's tithe is different and it is not always 10%.

Explain how God's tithe is not always 10%..i may be missing your point here.

Bidam:
thousands of wars were fought in those days by tribes who want to gain land and spoils, so Abraham's war is no exception. Even after God gave the laws to Moses are wars not being fought in isreal are spoils not being taken [b]so i don't get your analogy of war spoils being nailed to the temple wall o..[/b]pls explain with scriptures abeg. Even before God gave Moses the law on Sinai.

Just letting you know that you cannot categorize all tithe or 10% giving as God's tithe. Abraham gave a tenth of war spoils to Melchizedek and that was the end of such tithe (the tithing of war spoils). After the law was issued, tithing of war spoils was no longer a consideration, meaning you will be on your own if tithe war spoils to the Levi priest. What am saying is that God's tithe is not any 10% as pastor made you believe. God defined his tithe in Leviticus and war spoils was not part of it. Same for anybody that decide to tithe stuff not included in Gods description of his tithe in Leviticus. So you guys contributing 10% of your income to pastor are just paying pastoral tithe.

Bidam:
Explain how God's tithe is not always 10%..i may be missing your point here.

Leviticus 19:9 (NIV)
9 “‘When you reap the harvest of your land, do not reap to the very edges of your field or gather the gleanings of your harvest.

Leviticus 27:30 (NIV)
30 “‘A tithe of everything from the land, whether grain from the soil or fruit from the trees, belongs to the Lord; it is holy to the Lord.

The jews don't gather the harvest 100%, they leave something for the poor. The tithe is paid on what was gathered. It's like saying you set aside some part of your income for charity and apply 10% to the amount remaining.

Leviticus 27:32 (NIV)
32 Every tithe of the herd and flock—every tenth animal that passes under the shepherd’s rod—will be holy to the Lord.

If you have 9 animals eligible for counting/tithing, you don't tithe meaning tithe = zero. if you 19 animals, you only get to tithe one (the 10th one) meaning tithe = 5%.

Ubenedictus: hahaha, once suggested this to a friend he replied, " d bible says 'bring ur tithes into the house of God..." it didnt say give it to the poor, offering 4 d poor is different and tithe is for the man of God". I smiled.

bring it to my store house,hew 7

tithe and offering doesn't magically get handed over to God.
tithe and offering is = your pastor's mansion and private jet.
Christians be wise. If you attend a megachurch it's ok to pay offering to contribute to making the church look maintained and luxurious but, sincerely, Christ will prefer that the money goes to the least of your brethren aka the poor.
in the olden days and old testament, the state was controlled by the church. prophets were like modern day governors hence why it was mandatory to give 10% tax tithe to the government church.

CHRISTIANS ARE NOT UNDER ANY LAW TO PAY TITHE IN CHURCH!!! (By Chukwu, Celestine Nkemakolam)

I am very sure that quite a good number of people are going to call me names for daring to write on this topic; and some may never attempt to read this article till the last word before commenting that I am a biblical “robber”. As caustic as your comments may be, be assured that I have already forgiven you in advance. However, I crave your indulgence to read till the very last word and then decide if my reasons, especially the biblical passages around which my argument revolves, are wrong.

There have been lots of argument and articles concerning this topic. Tithe payment in churches today has become so necessary and even mandatory that anybody who dares refuse to pay it would either be excommunicated, suspended or tagged an anti-Christ who must not be allowed within the gathering of Christians (I write with experience). Some popular preachers whose articles I have read concerning tithe payment did go as far as stating that anybody who does not pay tithe cannot make heaven. I know quite well that tithe is the major source of revenue in some churches, and it is the primary means of supplying the needs of the Pastors. I also know that many of us have testimonies of financial breakthrough as a result of paying tithe, and the source of such testimonies is actually God and not the devil. However, in the midst of these testimonies, I still maintain, with biblical proof, that Christians are not under obligation to pay tithe. Moreover, tithe payment is not the only source of experiencing financial breakthrough; for, there are principles, according to God’s Will in the bible, which are laid down for this purpose.

It is clearly stated in Hebrews 7:5 that tithe is one of the laws of Moses, for Levites were “commanded by God to receive tithe from people according to the law”. A familiar verse often quoted by proponents of tithe payment is Malachi 3:9-10 where curse is pronounced on those who do not pay tithe; and blessings are showered on those who do. Moreover, Matthew 5:17-20 is also quoted where Jesus said that He had not come to abolish the law but to fulfill it. This later verse is, therefore, used as a basis that the Old Testament laws (Laws of Moses), which included tithe payment, is still applicable to us Christians since Jesus said he has not come to abolish the law. These verses, as you would come to see later in this article, are misquoted and misunderstood.


First, the verses in Malachi and Matthew came before the death of Jesus Christ. Jesus rightly quoted that He came to fulfill the law, and indeed He accomplished that through His death when He said “it is finished”. After His death, Christians were no longer under the law. That is why Hebrews 7:12 & 19 tells us that the former commandment and law to pay tithe (which was previously mentioned in Hebrew 7:5) has been annulled (cancelled). Moreover, Romans 7:6 says we have been delivered from the law; Ephesians 2:15 says that by His death He ended the whole system of Jewish laws that excluded Gentiles; Romans 10:4 says that Christ is the end of the law; Romans 7:4 says we died to the law through the body of Christ. Colossians 2:14-17 says all the ordinances were nailed to the cross. Galatians 3:10-13 crowns it by telling us that we have been delivered from the curse of the law( remember that tithe payment, as one of the laws, also came with a curse for those who refuse to pay it as stated in Malachi 3:9). This is why there is no verse in the bible (after the death of Jesus) where the Apostles told Christians to pay tithe. None of the churches practiced it. Rather, the needs of the church were met through voluntary offerings as depicted in 2nd Corinthians 9, Acts 2:44-45, etc. And God attached blessings to these free-will offerings as 2nd Corinthians 9:8-11 tells us. If tithe payment is so important or a part of the gospel of salvation, as some preachers do say when they declare that those who do not pay it will never make heaven, then why did the apostles in the bible decide not to teach Christians to do so when they preached?

I became very afraid of practicing anything in the Old Testament Law when I read from the Bible that living by them would cut me off from the grace, and we all know that no man would make heaven without the grace found in Jesus. Galatians 5:4 tells us that those who live by the law are cut off from the grace of Christ; Galatians 3:11 says no one is justified by the law in the sight of God. Also read Galatians 2:21, Galatians 3:1-5, Galatians 5:3, etc to really understand the grave implications of living by the law, even if it is just one act of the law.

There are other reasons many people have often given to justify tithe payment. One of them is that Abraham and Jacob paid tithe before the law, and if we must inherit the blessings of Abraham, we ought to do what they did: pay tithe. However, we must understand that Abraham paid tithe once. He tithed out of the spoils of war and not from his possessions. Jacob paid tithe as a vow to God if he answers his prayer. The bible never told us that he repeated that. We should remember that Circumcision, like tithing, also came before the law when God told Abraham in Genesis 17:11 to circumcise his household. Yet Galatians 5:1-3 tells us that we should no longer practice circumcision. This clearly tells us that it is fallacious to continue to live by an old doctrine merely because it came before the law.

Moreover, like I mentioned in the first paragraph, many people can give testimonies of financial breakthrough for paying tithe. Such blessings are real and may be from God. However, obtaining positive result is not always an indication that the means it came is according to God’s Will. For instance, Moses was instructed by God in Numbers 20:8 to speak to the rock so that water would be supplied for the grumbling Israelites. Moses, however, STRUCK the rock (Numbers 20:11) as against the instruction to Speak. There was still a positive result of water coming out of the rock, but God punished Moses for disobedience to His exact instruction by preventing him from entering the Promised Land. Matthew 7: 21-23 [/b]also tells us that God prevented people who performed miracles, signs and wonders in His name (not the name of Satan) from entering Heaven simply because they did not do His Will. This clearly tells us that God could give people power to perform signs and wonders or obtain positive results when His name is mentioned. Yet He would deny them entrance into Heaven for not doing His Will. Therefore, do not be rooted in the practice of a doctrine merely by the side attractions of signs and wonders.

It is pertinent that we know God’s laid down principle which is the key to financial breakthrough according to His Will. This key is in providing the needs of the less privileged and supporting Missionary works [b](2nd Corinthians 9:1-14, Matthew 25: 31-46, Matthew 10:41-42, James 1:27, Galatians 6:6-10, Luke 14:12-14, etc.). Do these and watch God manifest in your life. There are orphans in orphanages, beggars on the streets, sick people in hospitals who cannot pay their medical bills, people in prisons who have lost hope, widows, poor people around you, etc, who need our money and other welfare materials as we can provide. Moreover, invest in Missionary works geared towards propagating the gospel of Jesus Christ, and in the life of those who Minister the Word of God to us in our churches. The needs of the church can only be met through our voluntary offering and not through tithing.

ADDITIONAL INFORMATION!!!
Let me educate us further. What was the purpose of tithe during the law? A percentage of tithe was given to Levites because of the services they rendered to God, and they were not to own properties. The priests served like mediators between God and men, for they offered our gifts and our sacrifices of sin, cleansing, etc to God. However, the death of Jesus Christ became the ultimate sacrifice. We no longer need mortal priests to offer sacrifices to God on our behalf. We all now have direct access to God just like those priests of the old. That is why in 1Peter 2:9, we are called royal Priests, and the veil separating us from God was torn when Jesus died. Since there is no more need for sacrifices, the office of those priests was eliminated and therefore, the requirement to pay tithe which was used to feed these men was also eliminated. Hebrews 7, 8, 9 should explain all these to us.

Now, let us assume that tithing is still necessary, CAN ANYONE TELL US WHERE MONEY IS MENTIONED AS A "TITHABLE" ITEM IN THE BIBLE? Deu 14:22 and Leviticus 27:30 clearly tells us that only the fruits of the land or agricultural products were accepted as tithes. Most of modern day preachers deceive us by saying that in the old testament days, people were not earning money and that was why God did not include money as something to tithe. No way! You would be wrong if you think so. When you read 2 Chronicles 24:11-14, 2 Kings 12:11, 2 Kings 22:4-6 and Ezra 3:7, you would see that there were Carpenters, Stone cutters, Masons, etc who were paid for their services in money. We should also accept that there were fisher men then and other forms of trade. So can someone answer this question: WHY DID GOD NOT TELL THOSE PEOPLE TO TITHE THE MONEY THEY EARNED?

My brethren, let us be careful to preach the gospel of salvation to all mankind as something obtainable in grace and not through the works of the law. Let us not put men in bondage by forcing them to live by the law just because we are more interested in enriching ourselves through their tithe. Apostle Paul was a tent maker (Acts 18: 3) even as he was preaching, because he did not want to put burden on believers to supply his needs ( 1 Thes 2:9). Anybody that says he is an Apostle, Pastor, etc should be wise to emulate their early church predecessors: Apostle Paul, etc.

When God gives He doesn't take it back, God isn't a Indian giver, who said Gentiles are to give tithes, not even the Jews in Israel pay tithes today? And they are the true Israelites, while we are the Gentiles.
God didn't call us into His kingdom to feed the rich, God's kingdom is about supporting the poor.
The Kingdom of God isn't about a cash flow, God never brought us into His Kingdom for you to pay out a cash flow to Him for the rest of your lives!
This isn't about you? "Do you honestly believe you are blessed more then those who can't afford to tithe, all those who are genially refusing to pay a tithe?
We are all equal in the eye's of God, no-one sits in the best seats in heaven, your tithing isn't building the best places in heaven.
His riches isn't about money, its about seeking after His word, this is where His riches begin, I am a blessed man, and every time I seek the word of God daily it has changed my life, money doesn't make a difference to me, it's God that makes the differences.
But if you tithers believe you are better then the non tithers, then the Lord has news for you {Galatians 2:6} But of those who were held in high esteem-whatever they were, makes no difference to Me; God does not show favouritism.
Tithing was never to be paid in cash, taxes yes, but not tithes. And all you people who have chosen to pay tithes, then at least pay it the way God told some of the Israelites to pay tithes "back then, Bring all your tithes and offerings into the store house, so maybe-My people will be fed, Crops, stocks and Merchandise.
No where does it say Jesus had paid tithes, nor did His disciples paid tithes. So why are you paying tithes

Acidosis:
Crap!

God did not say you should give your TITHE (God's 1/10th demand) to the poor...

If you want to give to the poor, c'mon, you can even give your FULL salary after paying the tithe to the church..
You can get a big loan and give to the poor, NO ONE will stop you..

And only a f00l will practise that which you suggested...
You don't need to show the whole congregation what you want to give.... Invite them to your house, pack your belongings and money and properties for them
BUT
Your tithe is for God! Try and change his order by trying to use your "professor wisdom" and you're doomed...
If God wanted us to do that, he'd have given us the commandment!

These things have been written before our greatgrandfathers were born and you can not change it with your JET age 21st century terrestial sense...