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Richard Dawkins Says: Any Fetus Is Less Human Than An Adult Pig - Religion - Nairaland

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Richard Dawkins Says: Any Fetus Is Less Human Than An Adult Pig by Rhymeyjohn: 2:08pm On Mar 22, 2013
The vocal proponent of atheism, champion of pop atheism and author of 'The God Illusion', posted a provocative tweet about abortion: 'With respect to those meanings of "human" that are relevant to the morality of abortion, any fetus is less human than an adult pig. Now, when Dawkins typed “any fetus,” he did not mean it. He was not thinking of dolphin fetuses or dog fetuses. What he really meant to say was this: With respect to those meanings of “human” that are relevant to the morality of abortion, any human fetus is less human than an adult pig.
Of course, this is manifest nonsense. A human fetus is a human. A pig is not a human.In the English language, the word “human” is a scientific term designating the species Homo sapiens. A human fetus is a member of the species Homo sapiens. A pig is not. Perhaps Dawkins has some private definition for the word “human,” but I am not privy to such information. Therefore, unless he reveals his secret dialect, I will have to assume he is merely speaking English – and thus speaking nonsense.
In further tweets, he tried to explain what he really meant:

“Human” features relevant to the morality of abortion include ability to feel pain…

The most important moral question in abortion debate is “Can it feel pain?”

Now, why would Dawkins identify the ability to feel pain as a “human” feature? The ability to feel pain is hardly unique to the species Homo sapiens. Nevertheless, his view is clear: the morality of abortion is dependent upon the ability of the fetus to feel pain. This really is a strange argument. Is Dawkins suggesting that if one were to give a newborn baby anesthetics, thus removing her ability to feel pain, infanticide would be morally acceptable?

Ironically, Dawkins goes on to complain:

In the tweets following my pig / abortion opener, I’m depressed by how many people jump clean over logic straight to gut emotion.

But this is precisely what Dawkins has done in identifying pain as the “most important question in the abortion debate”! The pain experienced by the victim rightly tugs at our heartstrings, but surely on any logical analysis, the murder of a conscious pig is less problematic than the murder of a sleeping human.
Furthermore, in many late-term abortions, the fetus does of course feel tremendous pain! Dawkins recognizes this:

Woman’s rights over her own body are extremely important. So is pain.

Unlike many pro-choice friends, I think fetal pain could outweigh woman’s right to control her own body.

So there you have it. The great champion of pop atheism is now publicly against late-term abortions. This puts him at odds with the pro-choice movement in general and the Obama administration in particular.Unfortunately, Dr. Dawkins does not yet seem to realize his own pro-life leanings. He concluded his series of tweets with this confused message:

Bizarre responses to my tweets today. I clearly expressed my strong pro-abortion views & many people decided that I must be anti-abortion!
So it would seem that Dawkins is still rather deluded when it comes to the issue of abortion.

http://www.lifesitenews.com/news/richard-dawkins-tweets-on-abortion-any-fetus-is-less-human-than-an-adult-pi
Re: Richard Dawkins Says: Any Fetus Is Less Human Than An Adult Pig by Areaboy2(m): 3:01pm On Mar 22, 2013
haba..don't be lazy mate, add your own input. Just don't copy and paste and hope for a conversation. u might as well just paste the link alone
Re: Richard Dawkins Says: Any Fetus Is Less Human Than An Adult Pig by plaetton: 3:04pm On Mar 22, 2013
I would probablby disagree with Dawkins on this issue, as well as many other issues.
The point is that Dawkins is just another human being with an opinion.
He also happens to be an atheist, albeit, an outspoken one.

The point you ignore is that lack of belief in a god is probably the only thing most atheists have in common.
Atheists are not follow follow people.

Atheists, by their very nature, are impervious to The " Groupthink" phenomenom.

Atheism needs no constant revalidations like religion, because,there are no promises of anything or threats of punishment.

The term "Daddy G.O" is one constantly used by religious people(or preys) to to describe their predator-in-chief, and it underscores the moronic and sheep-like attitudes of religious slaves.

By using that term here, we can now know where to categorise you.

1 Like

Re: Richard Dawkins Says: Any Fetus Is Less Human Than An Adult Pig by ooman(m): 3:25pm On Mar 22, 2013
I know I will be swallowed alive for this but BIOLOGICALLY Dawkins is right. A fetus is not a human in a technical term and so can be aborted if the carrier wants to.

Even God killed a baby according 2Sam. 12v15 simply because the baby was illegitimate. So if women too abort babies because they are illegitimate or unwanted, they have only behaved like God.
Re: Richard Dawkins Says: Any Fetus Is Less Human Than An Adult Pig by Rhymeyjohn: 3:33pm On Mar 22, 2013
@plaettton, thanks for stating your mind. but note that saying that Richard Dawkins is 'just another human with an opinion' means he is not worth the hype godless folks shower on him based on his atheistic views. He is surely fallible, just like any human, as such, Dawkins making an assertion on what morality or immorality is (on abortion) or any other thing is based on his human and fallible nature and should be totally discarded. The 'Daddy G.O' think is figurative, you shouldnt have screamed much on it, let G.O Dawkkins defend himself
Re: Richard Dawkins Says: Any Fetus Is Less Human Than An Adult Pig by plaetton: 3:44pm On Mar 22, 2013
Rhymeyjohn: @plaettton, thanks for stating your mind. but note that saying that Richard Dawkins is 'just another human with an opinion' means he is not worth the hype godless folks shower on him based on his atheistic views. He is surely fallible, just like any human, as such, Dawkins making an assertion on what morality or immorality is (on abortion) or any other thing is based on his human and fallible nature and should be totally discarded. The 'Daddy G.O' think is figurative, you shouldnt have screamed much on it, let G.O Dawkkins defend himself

I agree with you on everything here.
You can clearly see that I was not defending Dawkins. I am defending the idea that Dawkins is somehow equivalent to your religilous G.Os, the predators in -in-chief.
There is no Predator-Prey relationship between Dawkins and other atheists, or those who may admire his outspokeness and literary works..
That is my point.
Re: Richard Dawkins Says: Any Fetus Is Less Human Than An Adult Pig by Rhymeyjohn: 3:55pm On Mar 22, 2013
Reactions to Richard Dawkin’s post on Twitter that: “With respect to those meanings of ‘human’ that are relevant to the morality of abortion, any fetus is less human than an adult pig”
Comedian Joe Rogan wrote, “That’s silly. The outrage of abortion is that a fetus has the potential for human life. That’s obviously not true of a pig.” SkyNews’ Chris Kenny added, “I followed you for rational thought not that sort of zealotry.” Some critics, though, were a little less friendly....... Wesley J. Smith, senior fellow at the Discovery Institute’s Center on Human Exceptionalism immediately tore into Dawkins’ posts that claimed fetuses are less human than adult pigs. The lawyer wrote that the argument is “utter nonsense” even from a biological perspective, which is the atheist’s field. “Indeed, he’d fail high school biology,” Smith said on LifeNews.
Re: Richard Dawkins Says: Any Fetus Is Less Human Than An Adult Pig by ooman(m): 4:18pm On Mar 22, 2013
^^^People need to understand that Dawkins is a Darwinist and in Darwinism its all about survival so if a fetus hinders survival or comfort of women, it can be aborted without guilt.
Re: Richard Dawkins Says: Any Fetus Is Less Human Than An Adult Pig by Rhymeyjohn: 4:27pm On Mar 22, 2013
ooman: ^^^People need to understand that Dawkins is a Darwinist and in Darwinism its all about survival so if a fetus hinders survival or comfort of women, it can be aborted without guilt.
hence, your fetus in your mother's womb was no better than an adult pig. hmmm, i salute the intellectual ingenueity of the atheist.looking at what you posted earlier, you are an embarrasment to logical reasonong.
Re: Richard Dawkins Says: Any Fetus Is Less Human Than An Adult Pig by ooman(m): 4:33pm On Mar 22, 2013
Rhymeyjohn: hence, your fetus in your mother's womb was no better than an adult pig. hmmm, i salute the intellectual ingenueity of the atheist.looking at what you posted earlier, you are an embarrasment to logical reasonong.

I know you are angry because I exposed your God.

I never said anything about pig and human but abortion.

I dont care what you think about me.
Re: Richard Dawkins Says: Any Fetus Is Less Human Than An Adult Pig by Rhymeyjohn: 9:51pm On Mar 22, 2013
if people like Richard Dawkins with his proselytes are the reason atheists see themselves as full of logic, they really need to be pitied. The issue is Richard Darwkins hates God, any other argument (weather sensible or not)is an weak attempt to wipe God out of the creation.
Re: Richard Dawkins Says: Any Fetus Is Less Human Than An Adult Pig by Image123(m): 10:20pm On Mar 22, 2013
The danger of leaving the basis of morality at the whim and caprices of men.
Re: Richard Dawkins Says: Any Fetus Is Less Human Than An Adult Pig by mumumugu(m): 12:23am On Mar 23, 2013
The man just contradicted himself. Atheism is full of confusion
Re: Richard Dawkins Says: Any Fetus Is Less Human Than An Adult Pig by EvilBrain1(m): 12:44am On Mar 23, 2013
Richard Dawkins is entitled to his opinion. He doesn't speak for all atheists or all pro-choice people. Just because he's against late term abortions doesn't weaken the stance of pro-choice people at all.

I'm atheist and pro-choice and I'm strongly against late term abortions. In fact I think the only reason many pro-choice people in America fight against banning late term abortions is that they are afraid of the slippery slope phenomenon that may eventually lead to all abortions being banned.

As regards foetuses and pigs, you guys are just deliberately muddling up the point the man was trying to make. At the end of the faetal period (8 weeks) an entire human being is only the size of a single bean. Its brain is just a tiny clump of cells. It cannot think or feel. It is not aware of itself or its environment. It doesn't feel pain, or sadness or joy or fear. Compare that with an adult pig or even better, a dog and you can see exactly what Prof. Dawkins was saying.

Animals have feelings. Tiny lumps of human cells don't. Is that so hard to understand?
Re: Richard Dawkins Says: Any Fetus Is Less Human Than An Adult Pig by Image123(m): 1:04am On Mar 23, 2013
so feeling is now size relative? wetin we no go read. Step on a ant smaller than a bean and observe if it has feelings. And when did feelings and knowledge start to determine who deserves to get killed BTW?
Re: Richard Dawkins Says: Any Fetus Is Less Human Than An Adult Pig by EvilBrain1(m): 1:26am On Mar 23, 2013
Image123: so feeling is now size relative? wetin we no go read. Step on a ant smaller than a bean and observe if it has feelings. And when did feelings and knowledge start to determine who deserves to get killed BTW?

Don't be d@ft. Its not about size, its about function. What we are really arguing about is what makes someone human. Thoughts, feelings and self awareness are a central part of the human experience, and in that sense, an adult pig is more human than a human fetus.

A fetus is a potential human, but that is not enough. You may not be aware of this, but scientists are now able to clone an entire person from a single cell of almost any type. That means that every time you scratch your nose or wipe your ynash, you're killing tens of thousands of potential people. Do you want to ban people from wiping their noses? Does that make any sense to you? Well neither does calling a clump of cells with no significant brain activity a human being. It just isn't.

Re: Richard Dawkins Says: Any Fetus Is Less Human Than An Adult Pig by Image123(m): 2:49am On Mar 23, 2013
oho it's no more about the size ba, okocha? Its now about the function and an adult pig is more human than a human foetus, ultimate wonder. Indeed, you can now calculate the thoughts and feelings of pigs, you're that good. Next is the argument that the functions of smart phones may them more human than human beings. Your thoughtline is a disgrace to the progress of the universe. A foetus is a potential human comparable to a nose-scratch or a butt-wipe, this is worse than the op on Dawkins.
Re: Richard Dawkins Says: Any Fetus Is Less Human Than An Adult Pig by wiegraf: 5:38am On Mar 23, 2013
Problem, where?

A fetus is just a lump of cells. No consciousness anywhere near them whatsoever. That's what he probably means when he says they're not 'human'. 'Human' here is not being used in a biological/scientific sense, but alas, people will miss the point.

And of course, dawkins et al have no morals. Their only concern is for beings that have achieved some for form of sentient consciousness, not of 'souls', etc. For instance, chimps

wiki:
Great ape personhood is a movement to extend personhood and certain legal protections to the four non-human members of the Hominidae or great ape family: bonobos, chimpanzees, gorillas, and orangutans.[1]

Well-known advocates include primatologists Jane Goodall and Dawn Prince-Hughes, Richard Dawkins, former Professor for the Public Understanding of Science at Oxford University, Peter Singer, professor of philosophy at Princeton University, and legal scholar Steven Wise.[2]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_ape_personhood

Really, how silly of them? Apes don't have souls so they don't matter. Only humans can have souls. After all, this universe was custom built very specially just for us...

For most of you people who cry foul over the abortion issue the amount of suffering inflicted on conscious life, or just life in general, isn't what bothers you. Most of you chump meat with relish for instance. It would seem it's these 'soul' things no one's ever seen and supposedly just show up from conception that bothers you, as I don't see the majority clamoring for the rights of say chimps or elephants. After all, these animals have shown remarkable mental capabilities even if they perhaps just fall short of full consciousness, self-awareness, etc.

To you the suffering of these imaginary souls is more important than actual, real suffering of living, conscious people, yes? In other words, you believe these souls exist and thus you expect the rest of us indulge you despite your lack of any evidence whatsoever of their existence? To do so just because you say so? The selfishness of religious..

You've decided they have souls, where are they? I understand I could use a pigs liver, but not that of a fetus. There are even cows spliced with human genes so as to produce human milk. Since humans are somehow special perhaps those altered pigs/cows deserve some special status as well? They've got human dna spliced in there somewhere, is that not enough to qualify them as having 'souls'. Actually, considering shared ancestry...

If you can show those cells are conscious in any way whatsoever I'm very sure he'll about-turn on his stance on abortion. He's even willing to give apes a basic rights for instance. If a being is conscious, self-aware, then there is obviously the capability to have emotions, feel pain, hope, desire etc. Whether it be human or not, biological or mechanical (eg AI) is irrelevant, all that matters is it be conscious and he'd probably be fighting for their rights. The rights of living, conscious beings, not a bunch of cells. If it isn't conscious then meh...Seriously, carry your hypocrisy elsewhere.
Re: Richard Dawkins Says: Any Fetus Is Less Human Than An Adult Pig by ooman(m): 7:53am On Mar 23, 2013
^^^nice write up. you made just the right amount of sense. Did you just put your brain back on? what happened before?
Re: Richard Dawkins Says: Any Fetus Is Less Human Than An Adult Pig by wiegraf: 8:22am On Mar 23, 2013
ooman: ^^^nice write up. you made just the right amount of sense. Did you just put your brain back on? what happened before?

Ooman brah, as usual you have no understanding of the situation. If an eediot like you finds it sensible, then there's good cause for alarm. Who gave you permission to post anyways?

1 Like

Re: Richard Dawkins Says: Any Fetus Is Less Human Than An Adult Pig by ooman(m): 8:24am On Mar 23, 2013
sorry. What you wrote above is total insanity then.

It seems you have lost your brain again. Na wah oo!!!

Are you already in a mental institution sha!! because this off and on thing serious oo!

Go to a mental asylum before you get to the streets oo!
Re: Richard Dawkins Says: Any Fetus Is Less Human Than An Adult Pig by Nobody: 11:51am On Mar 23, 2013
Lol. Typical atheist nonsense and confusion.
Re: Richard Dawkins Says: Any Fetus Is Less Human Than An Adult Pig by Image123(m): 3:41pm On Mar 23, 2013
and how does wiegraf prove without a shadow of doubt that human foetus have no consciousness whatsoever? Do lump of cells grow vital body organs, like lungs? What would a normal human want to use a baby's lung for? are you a ritualist?
Re: Richard Dawkins Says: Any Fetus Is Less Human Than An Adult Pig by wiegraf: 4:41pm On Mar 23, 2013
ooman: What you wrote above is total insanity then.

That was close, I was starting to worry that I wrote complete rubbish. With this, order is restored to the universe again
Re: Richard Dawkins Says: Any Fetus Is Less Human Than An Adult Pig by wiegraf: 4:43pm On Mar 23, 2013
Image123: are you a ritualist?

smiley

So, I need fetuses to do what exactly?
Re: Richard Dawkins Says: Any Fetus Is Less Human Than An Adult Pig by Nobody: 5:01pm On Mar 23, 2013
Image123: The danger of leaving the basis of morality at the whim and caprices of men.
Lol.. Abortion? Really..
What/Who should we leave the basis of morality to? Your god or one of the million others? Maybe we could just wipe out courts and build a temple somewhere where your God can judge cases?


@op: Might sound harsh, but I kind of agree with him. Truth is most Christians don't really care about the fetus, they are more concerned about hurting their God...
Re: Richard Dawkins Says: Any Fetus Is Less Human Than An Adult Pig by Nobody: 5:01pm On Mar 23, 2013
Image123: and how does wiegraf prove without a shadow of doubt that human foetus have no consciousness whatsoever?
lol,. Brilliant question...
Re: Richard Dawkins Says: Any Fetus Is Less Human Than An Adult Pig by Image123(m): 10:33pm On Mar 23, 2013
wiegraf:

smiley

So, I need fetuses to do what exactly?
i'm wondering oh. You complained that you could use a pig's liver but not a foetus na.
Re: Richard Dawkins Says: Any Fetus Is Less Human Than An Adult Pig by Image123(m): 10:35pm On Mar 23, 2013
musKeeto:
Lol.. Abortion? Really..
What/Who should we leave the basis of morality to? Your god or one of the million others? Maybe we could just wipe out courts and build a temple somewhere where your God can judge cases?


@op: Might sound harsh, but I kind of agree with him. Truth is most Christians don't really care about the fetus, they are more concerned about hurting their God...
my God of course, what did you think? All the best laws find their root in His Word.
Re: Richard Dawkins Says: Any Fetus Is Less Human Than An Adult Pig by ooman(m): 10:39pm On Mar 23, 2013
Image123:
my God of course, what did you think? All the best laws find their root in His Word.

Pathetic rubbish. All the laws in court came from the secular Romans and Greeks. You think we are talking about sharia law or the 10 commandments here? Religious laws are immoral.
Re: Richard Dawkins Says: Any Fetus Is Less Human Than An Adult Pig by Image123(m): 10:50pm On Mar 23, 2013
ooman:

Pathetic rubbish. All the laws in court came from the secular Romans and Greeks. You think we are talking about sharia law or the 10 commandments here? Religious laws are immoral.
cross check the meaning of the word 'roots'.
Re: Richard Dawkins Says: Any Fetus Is Less Human Than An Adult Pig by ooman(m): 11:17pm On Mar 23, 2013
Image123:
cross check the meaning of the word 'roots'.

maybe you need to do that.

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