Cubans will be allowed to buy and use mobile telephones for the first time after the Government moved to improve the country's access to consumer goods.

Cuba, which has the lowest rate of cellular telephone use in Latin America, has lifted restrictions on mobile phone use, which were previously limited to foreigners or government officials and employees.

Cuban telecommunications monopoly ETECSA, a joint venture with Telecom Italia, said it would begin selling the service to the general public within days in hard currency.

"ETECSA is able to offer mobile phone service to the public," it said in a statement published in the Communist Party newspaper Granma.

Cubans have long been calling for greater access to cellular phones and consumer goods.

"This shows there is a change in mentality at the top and recognition that Cuba has to move into the 21st century," one young computer technician said, who asked not to be named.

Since taking office last month from his brother Fidel, President Castro promised to start lifting "excessive regulations and prohibitions".

Cubans will also be able to buy computers and DVD players next month for the first time, if they have the hard currency to pay for them.
Just two years ago, banned DVD players were being confiscated by airport customs officials on arrival in Cuba.

But the Government faces a major hurdle in opening up the consumer goods markets as wages paid in Cuban pesos are too low, while consumer goods have to be paid for in convertible pesos, or CUCs, which are worth 24 times more than pesos.

Cubans will pay for their mobile telephones with prepaid cards bought in CUCs that will allow them to receive and make international calls.

In the streets of Havana, the news that cellular phones services would be opening up was welcomed by the public.

"It was an obvious measure. There will have to be more like it to get rid of the thousand and one obstacles that make life bitter in Cuba," said university student Jofre Valdes, 23.

"This was an anachronism. They have to end all unnecessary restrictions," said state employee Humberto Vega.


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/worldnews.html?in_article_id=548315&in_page_id=1811&ito=1490

the emergency Cubans should come and tell us how good Catro really was.

i just hope cuba is not corrupted by our so called capitalism,my ex gf went to university in cuba and from what i gleaned off her,apart from the effects of the embargo placed on them by america and its allies and the usuals associated with most nations of the world,cuba is an experiment that is working fine and would have been a model to follow if not for the embargo

lucabrasi:

i just hope cuba is not corrupted by our so called capitalism,my ex girlfriend went to university in cuba and from what i gleaned off her,apart from the effects of the embargo placed on them by america and its allies and the usuals associated with most nations of the world,cuba is an experiment that is working fine and would have been a model to follow if not for the embargo

cap·i·tal·ism (kp-tl-zm)
n.
An economic system in which the means of production and distribution are privately or corporately owned and development is proportionate to the accumulation and reinvestment of profits gained in a free market.


Is capitalism just a western idea or a human desire??  Look at china? you practically see the same trends among the people as you see in most capitalist nations. What model would that be?? Could you please elaborate on what you mean? Why is capitalism seen as some sort of demon by people who themselves live and enjoy it or want to enjoy the same as well??

Wow!!!!!!!!!

their is hope

I think Cuba's government works fine, sure it has its flaws and it needs to drop unnecessary restrictions but it definitely works. I mean compare Cuba with other Latin American countries.

It is easy for people who live outside of a system to make claims like "It works well". I mean people who live 24/7 in these countries know what life is really for them but we have people from other places, who when things get hard for them can escape to other countries and other situations, that are quick to conclude without considering that maybe for the fact that they do not live as the average people in these countries live, means maybe they do not have it all figured out. I remember some american dude who skipped the war and stayed back in north korea speaking on tv about how life in north korea is great for him. This is a man whom the government of North korea supports with great pay and basically goes out of its way to make life easy for him, so he can remain and tell the world that north korea is not a bad place to live in. The article above includes a statement from a cuban living in cuba, stating how bitter life is for him and a nigerian comes in to claim the system works. I find that to be a very strange claim for a Nigerian who does not have to live all his life in that country to make.

good news!
Saudi women may soon start driving.

Like I said the government has it flaws, in fact every government has its flaws.

JayFK:

Like I said the government has it flaws, in fact every government has its flaws.

Sure, Nigerian government has it's flaws so life is great in Nigeria then. We should not bother changing anything cause every government has it's flaws. Infact, Zimbabweans should not worry going to the polls tommorow cause every government in the world has it's flaws and so no need to push to change things asap.

Kobojunkie:

Sure, Nigerian government has it's flaws so life is great in Nigeria then. We should not bother changing anything cause every government has it's flaws. Infact, Zimbabweans should not worry going to the polls tommorow cause every government in the world has it's flaws and so no need to push to change things asap.

Maybe I should rephrase that,
every government considered "good" or good has its flaws. I did not say they should not change. Did you even read my previous post?

Kobojunkie what do you expect when till today there are still Babaginda and Abacha's die hard patriots in Nigeria.

If Cuba's government is not that bad, it's not that good either.

I don't know what you mean is not clear when you come in and make a statement such as this,

JayFK:

I think Cuba's government works fine, sure it has its flaws and it needs to drop unnecessary restrictions but it definitely works. I mean compare Cuba with other Latin American countries.

Right after reading in the article a cuban telling you how BITTER life is for cubans?? After reading that many cubans have had to have foreigners sign up for cell phone for them before now from outside of cuba right after learning that before now only foreigners were allowed to have cell phones in cuba??

'jayfk

Some things are just indefensible. . . . . .like the way the Cubans have been ruled for the last half a century.

Kobojunkie:

cap·i·tal·ism (kp-tl-zm)
n.
An economic system in which the means of production and distribution are privately or corporately owned and development is proportionate to the accumulation and reinvestment of profits gained in a free market.


Is capitalism just a western idea or a human desire?? Look at china? you practically see the same trends among the people as you see in most capitalist nations. What model would that be?? Could you please elaborate on what you mean? Why is capitalism seen as some sort of demon by people who themselves live and enjoy it or want to enjoy the same as well??

capitalism is a human desire but as we can see from the oil wars,from the dangotes and the halli burtons and the rest of them that in theory capitalism works but in the real sense its just a group of people raping the rest of the world economies and even the people only one person owns like a factory employing tens of thousands and keeps billions he doesnt need in his account while people are suffering,how many of enron's officials have been jailed for more than a few years for the staffs who committed suicide and the likes, like the saying goes money is not evil but the love of money is evil so in that context capitalism can be seen as a demon especially the corrupted form we find in the western world,llok at russia and the oligarchy, theres no doubt that a lot of people in cuba want the system changed but at the same time the suffering is not because of the system of government but the unjust punishemnt they are going through from bush,if there was no embargo the place will be a paradise.

Kobojunkie:

It is easy for people who live outside of a system to make claims like "It works well". I mean people who live 24/7 in these countries know what life is really for them but we have people from other places, who when things get hard for them can escape to other countries and other situations, that are quick to conclude without considering that maybe for the fact that they do not live as the average people in these countries live, means maybe they do not have it all figured out. I remember some american dude who skipped the war and stayed back in north korea speaking on tv about how life in north korea is great for him. This is a man whom the government of North korea supports with great pay and basically goes out of its way to make life easy for him, so he can remain and tell the world that north korea is not a bad place to live in. The article above includes a statement from a cuban living in cuba, stating how bitter life is for him and a nigerian comes in to claim the system works. I find that to be a very strange claim for a Nigerian who does not have to live all his life in that country to make.

my ex that lived in cuba was there for 7 years and she hardly leaves apart from a couple of weeks in nigeria,and uk so she actually knows the system there,she was a medical student there and if you know the way the cuban medical system works after their second year or so they were made to work in the ghetto hospital and the most run down place in the whole of havana,they got trained treating the poorest cubans and the most disgusting ailments so theres no question of them not knowing what goes on with the masses, most of what america shows even though some cubans are suffering is propaganda, u r saying cubans are suffering but did you know that life expectancy in cuba is way better than in the great united states in spite of their suffering ,dyu know how many consultant they have there,forget about excellent doctors because they are one pound a dozen so before u blame the system realise that they have one of the best medical both facilities,consultants and medical plan in the world if not the best in spite of everything, ill give u a short example if a nigerian went there on a visitors visa was in cuba for just 5 days and was discovered with say cancer or any ailment whatso ever the cuban govt will treat u FREE OF CHARGE and will not release you till they have made sure u are cured or wish to go out of your own will without a penny u can confirm from anyone that has been there aslo any sickness that cubans cannnot sort out then that person should lie down and wait for death, every govt has its flaws realli and cuba ,if the embargoes are lifted and they are allowed to do their thing without america meddling and trying to turn it to a satellite nation will be a model to follow

lucabrasi:

capitalism is a human desire but as we can see from the oil wars,from the dangotes and the halli burtons and the rest of them that in theory capitalism works but in the real sense its just a group of people raping the rest of the world economies and even the people only one person owns like a factory employing tens of thousands and keeps billions he doesnt need in his account while people are suffering,how many of enron's officials have been jailed for more than a few years for the staffs who committed suicide and the likes, like the saying goes money is not evil but the love of money is evil so in that context capitalism can be seen as a demon especially the corrupted form we find in the western world,llok at russia and the oligarchy, theres no doubt that a lot of people in cuba want the system changed but at the same time the suffering is not because of the system of government but the unjust punishemnt they are going through from bush,if there was no embargo the place will be a paradise.


my ex that lived in cuba was there for 7 years and she hardly leaves apart from a couple of weeks in nigeria,and uk so she actually knows the system there,she was a medical student there and if you know the way the cuban medical system works after their second year or so they were made to work in the ghetto hospital and the most run down place in the whole of havana,they got trained treating the poorest cubans and the most disgusting ailments so theres no question of them not knowing what goes on with the masses, most of what america shows even though some cubans are suffering is propaganda, you're saying cubans are suffering but did you know that life expectancy in cuba is way better than in the great united states in spite of their suffering ,dyu know how many consultant they have there,forget about excellent doctors because they are one pound a dozen so before u blame the system realise that they have one of the best medical both facilities,consultants and medical plan in the world if not the best in spite of everything, ill give u a short example if a nigerian went there on a visitors visa was in cuba for just 5 days and was discovered with say cancer or any ailment whatso ever the cuban govt will treat u FREE OF CHARGE and will not release you till they have made sure u are cured or wish to go out of your own will without a penny u can confirm from anyone that has been there aslo any sickness that cubans cannnot sort out then that person should lie down and wait for death, every govt has its flaws realli and cuba ,if the embargoes are lifted and they are allowed to do their thing without america meddling and trying to turn it to a satellite nation will be a model to follow

I will start by saying that I completely disagree with your point of view when it comes to capitalism and the right of humans to acquire wealth as they must. In the history of the world, we have heard and read stories of people who amassed so much wealth in their time and the world still moved on it's axis even with that knowlegde. There have always been wars from the beginning. Wars over women, over money and in some places today we see over war and so many other things. People like dangote and the enron folks existed from the beginning and will always exist. Enron's issue was over corruption, Capitalism is NOT corruption, please let us start by getting this straight and make sure to understand the difference. Capitalism is also NOT the love of money but as I posted earlier is the ability to conduct business and accumulate and reinvest wealth in a free market. For someone to use the phrase "the love of money", I am shocked you did not at least start by crucifying the likes of Abraham, Isaac, Solomon, Job and all the many people in that same book who God is said to have freely blessed and prospered in a capitalistic sort of way. By the way, what the heck has Dangote having money to do with you?? Is it so wrong to you that the man has a right to own as much as he can accumulate and not give it away according to the way you would prefer?? What happened to THOU SHALL NOT COVET THY NEIGHBOURS PROPERTY?

I am not the one saying Cubans are suffering. Cubans are the ones saying it. Read the article. Again, you ex was a medical student who at the end of the day, went home. Other medical students who lived all their life in cuba and live and practise in cuba may not necessarily have the same story. I am not asking you what they have. I am asking you to stop with the ramblings and pulling things from nowhere to make a non existent point. Did America say Cuban's can not get cell phones?? I mean read what the person who was interviewed said and then come back and tell me how that has to do with the west? Funny thing is you yourself have never lived in cuba but you seem to believe you know better than the cuban's that were interviewed do of their situation. How is that ??

I mean if your ex is a Nigerian, I can even more understand how she would not be so moved considering that life over there may be just as life is in Nigeria. Does that then mean if she does not complain much means she knows better than the cubans do of their own situation and life?? This to me sounds like someone who goes out to live for a couple of years on a resort or lush spa farm out in zimbabwe and then having to deal with the locals on a daily basis but being able to return home to the farm and maybe getting funding sent from relatives outside of the country everytime their is need coming in to say that there is nothing wrong with life in Zimbabwe.  I mean, come on. Stop trying to tell us that the persons who live these lives do not know what they are talking about and focus on what you actually know for sure.

I say you consider telling someone that Nigeria is not as good as you believe and the person tells you to shut up and goes on to explain that he was in Nigeria for about 2 years and it was paradise to him/her and maybe go ahead and tell you that the only issue was that because of America, there are so many poor people in Nigeria. Then tell me how that makes sense to you.


This quickness to blame the west for all our shortcomings and every single thing we can is a sign of the problem that I find seriously wrong with many black people. This to me is as sick as listening to a debate on the situation with China and Tibet and we already have depraved minds unable to reason, already blaming the west for the problem between the Tibetans and China. I could not believe my ears. We had so many Africans who called in to blame america for the coverage. Somehow these people convinced themselves that America is responsible for the monks deciding they had had enough of the treatment they are evidently protesting against.
We have africans living in Zimbabwe who continue to swallow the stupid excuse given them by Mugabe year after year about how the west is to blame for the problems in Mugabe. Over 3 million of the people have had to flee for their lives but no, we still have people who believe the problem in Zimbabwe is caused by the west as if the west has any obligation to the people of any country but their own homeland. We have farmers in Africa and other black countries waiting and expecting the west to come to their aid so they can compete better in the global market, once again the entitlement mentality. How anyone is able to convince himself that the west has to come to his aid even when he has no direct affiliations with western countries is beyond me.

@kobojunkie

first of all, i dont realli want to go into the theoretical merits of capitalism or whatnot because i wasnt sayn capitalism is good or bad but if read my forst post wat i emphasised on was the corrupted form of capitalism obtained in most places, if you wated to talk about the begining there is no way people will amass wealth and not have the power with it and i want you to give me an example of a capitalist with soo much money which did not affect the common masses, people in the old days never amassed money like it is done in this corrupted form of capitalism and even if the likes of enron existed from the beginning then they have been causing the problems from the beginning the only diffrence between then and now is that there was no alternative and i nver said capitalisim equals corruption but capitalism as a system leaves room for corruption and all the vices associated with it,i dont even have to prove anything but look at all the so called capitalist countries of the worl, are americans not complaining and suffering??and that is a country without embagoes,or any form of restrictions are ther not people living worse than nigerians in some part of america or united kingdom or europe?if capitalism was the eldorado it was cracked up to be then there should be no suffering, whatever you might say about capitalism i think it is more than crazy for a system which reward a few and allows them to take advantage of the majority, hope you v read john locke and rousseau and karl marx, i used the love of money analogy meaning that capitalism without it being corrupted and being perfect is not the problem as much as the corrupted form of it the whole trouble didnt strat from some ppl being rich and others poor but it started from the rich taking advantage of the poor, i dont know much of the bible but i know of the tax collectors and how they fleeced the people are they not an example of your capitalist??

fair enough i have not lived in cuba before and im sure the cubans themselves are the ones facing the downside but in any economy in the world,there will always be opposition and dissenters and btw how come the pro castros never make it to the american news and its only the anti castro, when catrina happened and cuba offered a few thousand doctors with no strings attached in spite of their condition ,why wasnt it reported?even in paradise there were dissenters which is why one of GOD s angels was banished,cell phomes is not the problem cuba has,if cell phones was the problem of a nation then nigeria should be one of the best countries, the cubans know their problems and their solutions,they know what kind of help they want to make their country great and even though the guy might complain and highlight the negatives ,there are cubans who also like the form of government they have, forget the propaganda,even though i have not been there i know at least 10 diff people apart from my gf who were in diffrent parts(there was 100 nigerian students)and some of them have even opted to go back and do their housemanship there, are you saying america is not the cause of the cuban situation?and if you answer yes is it corruption?what is it if not america, of course she complains about a lot of things wrong in cuba as well as other cubans but they still prefer their form of government to the alternative which is capitalism, the greatest enemy a leader can have is his people and once the majority of the people turn against him, the greatest army cannot keep them back, how many uprising have u had in cuba,hwo many times even when castro was weak and his brother old has there been any coup attempt ?dyu realli think the people are zombies and dont know what they want?they are happy with castro and his brother even though they like anybody want a better quality of life but not at the expence of turning their country into a satellite capitalist cuba ask any westerner either black or white that has been to cuba and wished capitalism for them, zimbabwe is miles diffrent from cuba so there is no basis for comparism, compare cuba instead to the united states because they have something at least that they are better than the united states with in spite of their condition, how many leaders that has been in power as castro has dyu know that has not been having riots ,killins by the police,arrests and the like most of the people who flee cuba some are criminals,some have other stuffs wrong and hinging it on castro, nigerians do it as well when they want to claim asylum and cook up stories, its just a way to survive how many stories have the immigrations of holland ,germany,uk,even yankee amongst others heard, civil war, govt loking for me, im a prince they want to kill me, e.t.c
ppl are suffering there agreed but to alarge extent its not as a result of the govt policies as they r making the best use of the funds they have

and there was no need for the rambling bit my brother, we r having an intelectual discussion

This quickness to blame the west for all our shortcomings and every single thing we can is a sign of the problem that I find seriously wrong with many black people. This to me is as sick as listening to a debate on the situation with China and Tibet and we already have depraved minds unable to reason, already blaming the west for the problem between the Tibetans and China. I could not believe my ears. We had so many Africans who called in to blame america for the coverage. Somehow these people convinced themselves that America is responsible for the monks deciding they had had enough of the treatment they are evidently protesting against.
We have africans living in Zimbabwe who continue to swallow the stupid excuse given them by Mugabe year after year about how the west is to blame for the problems in Mugabe. Over 3 million of the people have had to flee for their lives but no, we still have people who believe the problem in Zimbabwe is caused by the west as if the west has any obligation to the people of any country but their own homeland. We have farmers in Africa and other black countries waiting and expecting the west to come to their aid so they can compete better in the global market, once again the entitlement mentality. How anyone is able to convince himself that the west has to come to his aid even when he has no direct affiliations with western countries is beyond me.


well maybe the west and america in particular have been blamed because a lot of times they have stuck their noses where they r not wanted, mostly for selfish reasons even though im not blaming everything on them neither would i say that the china and tibetan issue is america's fault because for one im not following it that closely, if you study the zimbabwe situation the reason a few people are blaming the west is because mugabe is trying to be a castro but atthe same time not following through by not having thought out economic fiscal policies,large scale corruption and being a dictator with all the other evils added and support him for no other reason than the fact that he chased the whites out and gave their farms to africans albeit his cronies, ill stick to cuba and ill say that cuba do not want anything off america instead they want an opposite which is that america should leave them alone, remove the embargoes, cuba has got nothing and will have crumbled under the sanctions and embargoes america placed on them if not for venezuela, thats just to give you an idea of what the castros including their cabinet are facing, even americans themselves from the little i hear of their citizens and the once i bn there b4 are the bitterest critics of their foreign policies and know for a fact that they are the most hated citizens in the world wat they did in cuba and didnt suceed is what they r doing in iraq which has blown up in bush' s face, not everybody wants a capitalist system of governance and the earlier bush and america gets it into their head the better for the whole world

This is what I read in last week's paper edition of the Economist,should be available in the online edition,I didn't have time to check.I am quoting verbatim here:

According to an official memo,the Govt is to lift a ban on the purchase of computers,DVD players and microwaves.Next year,air conditioners should be available.Cubans can also look forward to the right to buy an electric toaster by 2010.

PS:Found the link-http://www.economist.co.uk/world/la/displaystory.cfm?story_id=10881009

@Lucabrasi

WTF are you doing in England? Capitalism breeds corruption. . . .blah blah blah.

I have good news for you! There are a lot of countries that don't practice capitalism as in the West.Resign from your job,take all your money and start making travel arrangements for the likes of North Korea,Burma or Cuba.

This hypocrisy irritates me. They tell us capitalism is no good yet want to live in capitalist bastions like the UK and the US.What else are they waiting for?

These people have no sense of history.Half of Europe used to be non-capitalist.Lucabrasi lives in England,why can't he simply ask those Eastern European migrants to regale him with "wonderful" stories about how beautiful life was under a communist system?

As for the familiar drivel about praise singing by beneficiaries of Castro's foreign scholarship programme.This reminds me of all those African and other foreign knuckleheads who went to Russia at the time of the Soviet Union to study.I have 2 close family friends who studied medicine then in Moscow.

They all came back telling us how wonderful communist Russia was.Most still maintain the same line.The people of Russia had other ideas while foreign students were praising their nation to the high heavens.What else is a propaganda exercise for if not to take gullible and impressionable foreigners on an image laundering exercise?

How about this for absurdity-I benefited from a Castro propaganda exercise so that imbues me with objectivity in analysing Cuba.

At the end of the day,the foreigners who lived a sheltered and censored existence return home leaving the Cuban people to plot and scheme how they can "swim" to America on a raft.

@4play

well let me respond to you by starting with my own issue,when it comes to staying in england apart from the fact that i did not say i will live in a communist nation neither did i proffer to be a communist,im only an admirer of good experiments and secondly the decision for england was not taken by me but my dad so i had next to no input on that,admiring a system doesnt mean the same thing as saying that i must go there and live where it is practised i admire soo many things about the islamic religion doesnt mean i want to convert to being a muslim,taking these nations you mentioned one after the other,you cannot compare north korea and burma with cuba because their leadership had diffrent priorities while the likes of north korea were amassing weapons and nuclear armaments castro was setting up a viable and excellent medical system in his country and so i think its an insult to cuba to compare them with the likes of north korea or burma and if you see castro mixing with them its for the obvious reason of pissing bush off and by extension america and its allies,and dont forget america made sure castro was ostrasized so he had no choice but to hang out with these nations, cuba's achievment is there to see. what america could not achieve,what uk and the rest of the world could not achieve with riches cuba achieved with next to nothing and u dont think castro should be applauded?wow

i still say capitalism is not good because it leaves room for a few taking advantage of the majority, look at the world today, even revelations in the bible prophesised that one of the signs of the end times will be the whole world spending one currency and big companies merging, what we have now is a few people owning majority of commerce and industry and still yet greedily amassing more wealth at the expence of the long suffering populace, what did you think jesus meant when he said its easier for a camel to pass through the eye fo a needle that for a rich man to enter heaven??so i still maintain that when capitalism is corrupted it is like a cancer or gangrene, it eats evertyhting it gets in contact with and destroys it

i dont know about the moscow situation but in the case of cuba it was more of a foreign policy thing,when a man or nation is pushed to the wall they have to deal with whoever and one of them is the nigerian student situation and by the way cuba is not interested in any propaganda because the 100 nigerian students is actually the first,the last and the only nigerians they are having in that programme so its not a continuous thing to shw you they are not bothered about sucking up to anybody

like i said in my earlier post nigerian students that lived in cuba (well the few i know)did not live sheltered lives in cuba and i tell you,as much cubans as there are shouting in america who are anti-castro and even the ones in cuba there are more pro castro in cuba as well, you talk about swimming on a raft what dyu expect when a super power like america has been arm twisting a nation and virtually brought cuba to its knees economically??even libya with the oil didnt last before begging for forgiveness, u see a man of that age and in that condition who was not over thrown in spite of the no of years he has been there,u dont see a tibet/china situation or burma situation of riots and u dont think they actually like the man??
the cubans communist system is a working model and is the best for them,and i promise u that the sky is the limit for them and that place will be a paradise if the embargoes are lifted, i v not been there but my elder sister has been with her family amongst others and one thing they have all said is how refreshing it is walking round without the macdonalds,the capitalist multi nationals screaming at you rather than blaming cuba vent your anger on a bully which is america and its allies, even in the bible , the parable of the servants that the master gave money to keep when he went on a journey,he actually rewarded the servant who used the little he had and multiplied it which is what cuba has done

@Lucabrasi

What it is the Cuban communist system and how does it differ from the communist systems as historically practiced in different places of the world? Communism was a resounding failure,without exception,in every country in which it was practiced.

Like Cuba,the Communist Soviet Union and Eastern bloc had socialised healthcare and education but they all suffered from a common malaise-totalitarianism infused with economic misery.Has it occurred to you that Cuba's key problem lies,not with the US embargo,but with its adoption of a system that has never worked in human history?

Your argument is that something,communism,which has never worked anywhere would have worked in Cuba if not for America.

Again,you keep alluding to foreigners who live an alternative existence to what the Cuban people go through.First it was your ex,now your elder sister.This thread started with an article which noted that foreigners were allowed cellphones to the exclusion of ordinary Cubans;they are also allowed toasters,airconditioners,DVD players,microwaves and computers.

Your claim that your ex's programme is a one off for Nigerian students is complete guff.Thousands of Nigerians have undergone and will continue to use this programme.It exists for African,Caribbean and Latin American students.The goal is the same-to continue to launder the image of the Cuban regime.

Did your elder sister tell you that Cubans can't simply walk into hotels that foreigners use or that foreigners even use a different currency to Cubans? Did they tell you about having to obtain food through Govt rations? Where else can there be such a segregation between foreigners and locals?

There was so much drivel you wrote but I have little time to refute it.You pointed to the abscence of anti-Govt riots and demonstrations as proof of Cuban contentment with their lot,has it occured to you that in a country that locks up people for merely criticising the Govt-a country with no freedom of speech-nobody dare riot or demonstrate against the Govt? Does the abscence of riots in N.Korea mean they are happy with their lot?

To finish up,if you don't like capitalism,what do you like apart from Cuba where people depend on Govt food rations,have little or no freedom(not even to buy a toaster)or say in who rules them? If the Cuban Govt was popular with its people,why hasn't it put its popularity to a vote since 1959 by holding elections? Why would a popular Govt not hold elections?

first of pls lets try and put a lil bit of decorum in discussion as i dont see the cause for saying the drivel i v written,i only responded to you cause you called me up on my post and ill like to think we r both matured individuals and shouldnt take an intelectual discussion personal, let me clarify the ex and elder sister issue my ex attended as a student on the medical programme and my elder sister and her family went there on holidays last year and both of them have no connection at all,i only mentioned that because even though i have not been there but reporting what she thought of it as a foreigner on holidays,if you know anybody that has being there who has an alternative view then by all means do share as its a public forum and we r all learning, thats not an issue at all.

the communist system is diffrent for a number of reasons which i cant go into for time and space but ill reiterate my earlier points, cuba and its leadership are not corrupt or given to megalomeniac tendencies ro any trappings which are normally associated with dictators,while other communist countries were bothering themselves about the western world and amassing nuclear weapons cuba was doing same in the medical field of which the results are clear for all to see,and dont you think the former american leadership being the capitalism evangelist and propagator and its allies want cuba to fail in the first place?if they were not scared as well,they should have left cuba alone to its devices like zimbabwe, no one can make excuses for zimbabwe because there was no foreign intervention and the dictator who is their president mesed things up all on his own so thats the diffrence for you right there,

now if you check my posts, what i said was that,the programme as far as nigeria is concerned was not continued,i dont know about tmorrow but as at today the nigerian set of 100 that passed out are the first and the last and if you can prove me wrong then by all means do so, i dont know about other parts however and i know venezuelans are not under any sort of restrictions,and as to laundering cuba's image i think the govt should be commended if sharing their vast knowledge with the world is their idea of image laundering ,at least they r not laundering their image the nigerian way where foreign and high priced media consultants are employed or using the zimbabwe system and burma where foreign press are banned from shown the going on s, they are proud of their achievements so why shouldnt they flaunt it

dude there is no amount of govt clamp down that can turn people to zombies or not to riot,i dont have the figures but dyu know how many thousands died in the 80 s riot in burma?they died in thousands and yet u still see them going at it, same for tiny tibet compared to china,,same for zimbabwe, same for nigeria during abiola june 12, same for abacha time and ill keep on saying please dont compare north korea with cuba its like comparing ibb and mutitala mohammed for the fact that they r same tribe doesnt mean they r same thing, same with north korea and cuba, the fact that they are communist dont make them the same, castro loves his country and has shown that by his achievements and u dont see him making movies for propaganda or parades or threatening the west,even venezuela and chavez who have always maintained that he is a castro disciple has always been more vocal than castro junior and senior brother and if there was a simple 100 ppl riot trust me cuba which is in america's back yard can not prevent america from filming it and m sure they will with all glee

im not a disciple of communism and if u care to check my earlier post again i said i only admire what they r doing,i know they are not perfect but i understand the rationale behind not having the toasters and stuffs is mainly to curtail capitalist ifluences not because hey want the cubans to suffer where dyu think all their medical equipment comes from,are cubans manufacturing medical equipments?well u said it that other communist countries had cuba's medicare records please show me what country and where and refrences to check that as i dont believe thats accurate or true

you talked about food rations and i guess car ownership travelling and what not,well i think you need to read through this communist system of governace as concerned cuba and the rationale behind every action before you pass a blanket judgement as i dont have the space to start explaining everything even with my limited knowledge but ill tell you that in cuba the food ration system s made everybody relatively well fed,the food available is spread out evenly as opposed to the capitalist system where monkey go dey chop,babboon go dey work or where some ppl will eat and eat all th chicken all the milk and chocolates and some cannot afford garri,where a country like ghana exports cocoa to the west and the children in the villages dont know what chocolate looks like, where france and the european union are getting billions in agricultural rebates and wasting their food while africans are dieing of hunger and not given a level playinf field,need i say more?as to the car issue in cuba for you to buy a car u would have to prove u need it and having the funds u might still be rejected look around the world today starting form our dear nigeria where some ppl have 20 cars,where some ppl's garage is airconditioned and some cant afford a molue but trek,not to talk of global warming and u r blaming cuba, all they are doing with the hotel issue you mentioned is insulating their citizens from foreign influences and corruption, they welcome foreigners but do not want them to infect them with their ideals, if u had a child and your friend came round who u know can corrupt your child,im sure u ll keep them apart for ur child's safety and having said that they have beautiful hotels and other places where they go as well and whats money but paper??we all spend the same currency here does it mean i have bill gates purchasing power or abramovich 's purchaeing power?

i agree there is a need for the cuban govt to change the status quo which castro junior is doing but on the whole i think its a working syatem for them and btw both castros have similar ways of doing things o dont expect any radical changes like a change from communism and raul is craftier than fidel, ask cubans u know

The basic problem people might have against capitalism is not necessarily what it is in its purest form, but how it affects the society, the things it is associated with and what it leads to and has come to stand for in the mordern world. Whenever someone thinks of capitalism, it is normally skyscrapers, corporate organisations, "the man" or "the suit", corporate structures which see some people earning a ridiculous ammount while the majority slave to eek out a living. One thinks of busy lifestyles where people don't really have time for their children but are slaves to work to sustain the culture. All money goes to bills, etc. This unfortunately in mordern times has come to be the results of a capitalist culture. It might not be what capitalism in its purest form stands for, but it is what has been understandably associated with capitalism, a society were profit is the key factor in everything, a culture which seems to be anti social. Compare france and england. England has a greater capitalist culture when compared to France and the french love their lifestyle of longer holidays, more flexible hours, etc, a more social system. That has meant the UK has a more dynamic economy ,than france but at what cost? The cost of living is higher in england anyway. They have what can be seen as a more social culture when compared to England where all the money you make goes to bills, taxes, etc. Compare again UK and Canada, thesame thing. The whole point is that people see capitalism as a compromising culture and lifestyle and system. Do we really believe the whole world can live that lifestyle at a sustainable pace? People see capitalism as something that comes at a great cost, it is just a matter of if we think the cost is worth what is perceived as a capitalist culture.

well said my brother, the earlier we start to realise this,the better and also i believe even if we all dont want communism or socialism or any ism but capitalism ,let us leave the people that have had a sucess of it alone and face our own political problem america is more pissed off that cuban govt has not come to them cap in hand to beg than the whole communist govt, remember rwanda, central afric,

Sky Blue:

The basic problem people might have against capitalism is not necessarily what it is in its purest form, but how it affects the society, the things it is associated with and what it leads to and has come to stand for in the mordern world. Whenever someone thinks of capitalism, it is normally skyscrapers, corporate organisations, "the man" or "the suit", corporate structures which see some people earning a ridiculous ammount while the majority slave to eek out a living. One thinks of busy lifestyles where people don't really have time for their children but are slaves to work to sustain the culture. All money goes to bills, etc. This unfortunately in mordern times has come to be the results of a capitalist culture. It might not be what capitalism in its purest form stands for, but it is what has been understandably associated with capitalism, a society were profit is the key factor in everything, a culture which seems to be anti social. Compare france and england. England has a greater capitalist culture when compared to France and the french love their lifestyle of longer holidays, more flexible hours, etc, a more social system. That has meant the UK has a more dynamic economy ,than france but at what cost? The cost of living is higher in england anyway. They have what can be seen as a more social culture when compared to England where all the money you make goes to bills, taxes, etc. Compare again UK and Canada, thesame thing. The whole point is that people see capitalism as a compromising culture and lifestyle and system. Do we really believe the whole world can live that lifestyle at a sustainable pace? People see capitalism as something that comes at a great cost, it is just a matter of if we think the cost is worth what is perceived as a capitalist culture.

Here is the problem. People can always choose to live in socialist countries than in capitalist economies but there seems to be a huge move towards the capitalist model by the population than the other way. Does that not in itself mean that maybe people do not view capitalism in the evil way some have come to see it?? I mean I go back to my reference of people who were blessed in capitalistic ways in the Bible. Capitalism is not new and it is not just an america, or uk or western idea. It has existence for most all of history and people to this day still have a choice but overwhelmingly people choose capitalism. Does that in itself not kind of move you to think that maybe the capitalism is not synonymous with evil

I take the example of people that you say believe capitalism is about all money going to pay bills and what not. It has been shown over and over that that is not the case in just capitalistic countries. Even socialist models and communist models find they have to deal with exactly the same issues. People in china and cuba will tell you that they deal with the same situations. So why just consider those when considering capitalism alone?? When it applies to all??

lucabrasi:

well said my brother, the earlier we start to realise this,the better and also i believe even if we all don't want communism or socialism or any ism but capitalism ,let us leave the people that have had a sucess of it alone and face our own political problem america is more pissed off that cuban govt has not come to them cap in hand to beg than the whole communist govt, remember rwanda, central afric,

There you go again with that ridiculousness?? Capitalism is not new. It did not start yesterday. Even your own forefathers practised and history will tell you over and over of this. If I want to amass wealth, and you do not but you need what I have to offer ie. Electricity, water, food, you still have to pay to get it from me whether you believe in capitalism or not. How else do you expect to get these, free of charge?? And why should I not be allowed to amass wealth and build companies?? cause you can not stand that I should have that freedom to??

By the way, how did you figure that america is more pissed off by cuban govt and whatever it is that you mean?? Can I suggest that you actually educate yourself on the realities in the world we live in and not continue on this conspiracy theory bandwagon. And please spend time learning what capitalism is and why you can not argue against communism using the Bible. It will never work.

lucabrasi:

@kobojunkie

first of all, i don't realli want to go into the theoretical merits of capitalism or whatnot because i wasnt sayn capitalism is good or bad but if read my forst post what i emphasised on was the corrupted form of capitalism obtained in most places, if you wated to talk about the begining there is no way people will amass wealth and not have the power with it and i want you to give me an example of a capitalist with soo much money which did not affect the common masses,

Example of persons who amassed wealth and power in the bible, Abraham, David, Solomon, Job, etc. People in the old days amassed wealth even as they do today.

people in the old days never amassed money like it is done in this corrupted form of capitalism and even if the likes of enron existed from the beginning then they have been causing the problems from the beginning the only diffrence between then and now is that there was no alternative and i nver said capitalisim equals corruption but capitalism as a system leaves room for corruption and all the vices associated with it

,i don't even have to prove anything but look at all the so called capitalist countries of the worl, are americans not complaining and suffering??and that is a country without embagoes,or any form of restrictions are ther not people living worse than nigerians in some part of america or united kingdom or europe?if capitalism was the eldorado it was cracked up to be then there should be no suffering, whatever you might say about capitalism i think it is more than crazy for a system which reward a few and allows them to take advantage of the majority, hope you v read john locke and rousseau and karl marx, i used the love of money analogy meaning that capitalism without it being corrupted and being perfect is not the problem as much as the corrupted form of it the whole trouble didnt strat from some people being rich and others poor but it started from the rich taking advantage of the poor, i don't know much of the bible but i know of the tax collectors and how they fleeced the people are they not an example of your capitalist??

Eg.again from the bible, Solomon who was also corrupt to an extent. Look it up . God did bless him did he not?? I can give you so many examples from history but I want to stick to the bible here so you can go read it of your own. Corruption is not new. It has been in the blood of the people from time immemorial. Associating it with capitalism now is ludicrous, as we know that over and over empires have all through history have fallen for one reason or another and in some cases corruption has been at the root of some of those falls but that has not detered humans from wanting to build an empire for themselves and dream and push to accomplish those goals no matter how terrible they may be in some cases. Deciding to write off the idea of pursuing one's dreams and goals just cause corruption may exist is just a terrible way to judge societies, don't you think??

This is not about telling you that capitalism is eldorado,but if you bother to look around you, capitalism has played a tremendous role in getting the world to where it is today where you enjoy freedom and are even able to buy a computer and post your ideas on here freely. The world we live in today offers us so many options that those who do not like capitalism can always try communism but unfortunately, the trends continue to show that people favour capitalism. Even China which remains communist in so many ways is now buying into the capitalist model on so many levels.

You can talk about corruption and state the ills of corruption but when you try to attach corruption to capitalism is where you have a problem cause you can not do that. Corruption exists, whether in a capitalists economy or a communist economy, corruption will always be possible. So please try to separate your idea of what corruption is from the 1) West 2) Capitalism and focus it where it ought to be, on those who are corrupt and you have issues with regardless of what model they believe in.

fair enough i have not lived in cuba before and im sure the cubans themselves are the ones facing the downside but in any economy in the world,there will always be opposition and dissenters and between how come the pro castros never make it to the american news and its only the anti castro, when catrina happened and cuba offered a few thousand doctors with no strings attached in spite of their condition ,why wasnt it reported?

Does america no longer have a right to reject support from whomever it wants to reject funds from?? Are you joking with this?? It was reported, maybe you did not hear of it.

even in paradise there were dissenters which is why one of GOD s angels was banished,cell phomes is not the problem cuba has,if cell phones was the problem of a nation then nigeria should be one of the best countries, the cubans know their problems and their solutions,they know what kind of help they want to make their country great and even though the guy might complain and highlight the negatives ,there are cubans who also like the form of government they have, forget the propaganda,even though i have not been there i know at least 10 diff people apart from my girlfriend who were in diffrent parts(there was 100 nigerian students)and some of them have even opted to go back and do their housemanship there, are you saying america is not the cause of the cuban situation?and if you answer yes is it corruption?

Would you be comfortable if 4 years from now that Yar adua comes up to tell the people that america is the reason why he was not able to fulfill his promise of providing us electricity, better government etc?? I hope you will be and you should celebrate Yar adua if that ever happens please. Like I said earlier, America has a right to refuse relations with any company it chooses. If Usa refuses cuba but china( which happens to supply over 50 % if goods to America) does not refuse cuba why is it america's fault that cuba can not foster a relationship with china and hence get what it needs for it's people?? I have over the months used so many analogies to help people rethink the way they see the world and america or the west. We have a situation right now in zimbabwe where the man is equally blaming the west for the high inflation rate( over 100,000%) in that country today.

Let me explain the way I see this. It is sort of watching two companies compete to provide for their employees. Say companies like intel And AMD. If AMD hired a CEO and he came back to the board members year after year to complain that the reason why he has continued to fail at his job is cause Intel continues not to sell it it's chip or maybe intel is agressively selling it's product to a wider group that it is able to, what do you think the board members would do? Sympathize with him or move to find someone else to do the job who would be better able to compete with Intel or even find them more customers and help their employees move forward in the industry?? Now think of government sort of the same way and maybe you will see the "west is at fault" excuse is not really cutting it no matter which way you choose to slice and dice it. Would you send your own children to a school where the principal tells everyone that because of another school in the area, he is no able to provide a better schooling environment for the children??

of course she complains about a lot of things wrong in cuba as well as other cubans but they still prefer their form of government to the alternative which is capitalism, the greatest enemy a leader can have is his people and once the majority of the people turn against him, the greatest army cannot keep them back, how many uprising have u had in cuba,hwo many times even when castro was weak and his brother old has there been any coup attempt ?

So based on that logic, Nigerians are in love with our corrupt leaders we love them so much that is why after 47 years, we sit back and allow them to continue to feed us crap and we do not want to change our government??

dyu realli think the people are zombies and don't know what they want?they are happy with castro and his brother even though they like anybody want a better quality of life but not at the expence of turning their country into a satellite capitalist cuba ask any westerner either black or white that has been to cuba and wished capitalism for them, zimbabwe is miles diffrent from cuba so there is no basis for comparism, compare cuba instead to the united states because they have something at least that they are better than the united states with in spite of their condition, how many leaders that has been in power as castro has dyu know that has not been having riots ,killins by the police,arrests and the like most of the people who flee cuba some are criminals,some have other stuffs wrong and hinging it on castro, nigerians do it as well when they want to claim asylum and cook up stories, its just a way to survive how many stories have the immigrations of holland ,germany,uk,even yankee amongst others heard, civil war, govt loking for me, im a prince they want to kill me, e.t.c
people are suffering there agreed but to alarge extent its not as a result of the govt policies as they r making the best use of the funds they have
and there was no need for the rambling bit my brother, we r having an intelectual discussion

I can only compare cuba to zimbabwe cause we are speaking of governments that have been in place for extended periods and have offered the excuse that the west is the reason why the lives of the people remain fixed in time as it is to this day. Both have people who hardly revolt or riot either and according to your logic, that would essentially mean both countries are so in love with their governments. We have seen more of opposition being put down than we have seen pictures of people rioting in those countries. Infact, I should add North korea to the mix cause all these apply as well and following your logic, the North Koreans. must love their government and so we should also love our government as it is in Nigeria.


You are rambling, my dear friend, when you start to try to force logic where it does not exist. If you can not apply this logic of yours in most all the other cases I suggested, then I would ask that you reevaluate the way you have come to have this make sense to you and start considering what people say as being exactly what they mean. I mean instead of you trying to explain away what the man said, maybe you should take it that he may have a point that is beyond what you know of his case and that of others. We live in the year 2008, I don't know about you but I still find the idea of having the government impose bans on me and treat me like a child that needs to be ruled over in that way to be seriously old and unnecessary. Recently there has been a lift on ban of CD's, DVD's, now cell phones etc. I understand you are for the way of life there in cuba and somehow against capitalism but don't you think your argument would be more reasonable and less hypocritical if you actually moved out there to live there instead of staying up in a capitalist community and trying to tell us all about cuba and how things are run there

Kobojunkie:

Here is the problem. People can always choose to live in socialist countries than in capitalist economies but there seems to be a huge move towards the capitalist model by the population than the other way. Does that not in itself mean that maybe people do not view capitalism in the evil way some have come to see it?? I mean I go back to my reference of people who were blessed in capitalistic ways in the Bible. Capitalism is not new and it is not just an america, or uk or western idea. It has existence for most all of history and people to this day still have a choice but overwhelmingly people choose capitalism. Does that in itself not kind of move you to think that maybe the capitalism is not synonymous with evil

I take the example of people that you say believe capitalism is about all money going to pay bills and what not. It has been shown over and over that that is not the case in just capitalistic countries. Even socialist models and communist models find they have to deal with exactly the same issues. People in china and cuba will tell you that they deal with the same situations. So why just consider those when considering capitalism alone?? When it applies to all??

have you thought people might just be moving towards the capitalist countries for one the language,they happen to be the richest (we all know they have raped africa,arab countries e.t.c)and the capitalist idea to many people sounded nobel and ideal but you still are not getting my point which is that western countries are practicing a corrupt form of capitalism, look around you and to cover your bible example i will repeat a quote i borrowed from the bible in my earlier post which is that "it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter into heaven"dont you think that summed up jesus view of a typical rich man who by extension are the capitalists,have you forgotten these capitalist were the ones selling in the temple as well,have you also forgotten that nicodeus the tax collector is the modern day irs and hm revenue for uk, i dont know about the us but for the united kingdom the utilities are ripping ppl off just a month ago united utilities increased our bill but ended up making a lot of unfair profit which was reported in the news,another example is the price fixing by all the major supermarkets , it might be a few pennied on dairy products but im sure that gives u an idea of the evil of capitalism im talkn about, capitalism is not the same as in cuba because while the major supermarkets "the so called capitalists in action" are busy ganging up to rape us economically cuba is sharing out the available food equally

the ugly face of capitalism US and Uk have within it the level of poverty that can only be imagined. even after privatisation of most things what the UK in the form of mrs T did was to give the masses assets to few people. remember that was the beginning of the word FAT CAT. this evening i heard a place in america is resorting to lottery to get people into health insurance

if you live in london and europes urban cities you dont get to see poverty but take a walk into the surburbs and country side and begin to change your mind. the people telling cubans they have a bad life now will be their slave master tomorrow.

thank God for loans and credit cards