Ubenedictus: and who say the japanese wouldnt have beaten the americans if not for the nukes. This time nukes will be matched with nukes

shy-mmex:


I understand your point... However, I'm just trying to counter the posturing about the yanks being the best thing since slice bread... America has never taken on any superpower... Heck, it lost most of its war adventures after the world war 2 - lost in Korea, lost in Vietnam etc.. America is more or less a paper tiger to me until it proves itself against at least a 2nd rate country.... Bullying defenseless countries is just propaganda IMO...

The cold war is over, why is America still in the Korean peninsula?? Why can't the yanks look for ways to unite these two countries and let them live in peace?? Heck, they stay conducting military exercises there almost every 2 months - that's not the right thing to do, to be honest...

Honestly, I don't blame North Korea for standing up for itself - however, I don't agree with how NK is going about it...

Michaeljones36: In the future...

India will be a military superpower
China will be a military superpower
Russia will be a military superpower
Europe will be a military superpower (the EU)
The US will be a military superpower
Brazil will be a military superpower (if they ever fully implement their nuclear weapons program)


The real question is...where is Africa on this list?

firstolalekan: [size=16pt]LETS GO DIER[/size].
[size=18pt]THIS IS WHAT HAV BEEN WAITING FOR[/size].
LET THEM ENGAGE THE U.S SO THAT IRAN CAN DEAL WITH DAT TINY ISRAEL.
[size=20pt]ISRAEL HAS BEEN HIDING UNDER U.S SKIRT TO MAKE MOUTH[/size].

pleep: Japan is lucky america used nukes sef... either way they were finished.

pleep: As for the relative power of all the nations; the only strong allies were the U.S, U.K and the Soviet Union. The USSR was the strongest and the United States was well aware of this. General Paton (the head of the American army) even asked the president to spare the weakened Germany and attack the "mongoloid" Russians with nuclear weapons if need be.

The american government refused, and decided to concentrate on germany

By the time the war was over the Soviet military was much larger than Americas and it was clear that there would be a stand off between the two super-powers. When Russia got nukes, it became the cold war. I think the U.S should have attacked Russia when they had the chance.

America waited so long to enter the war because the public was not in support of it, The United States was actually trying to adopt isolationist policies after WW1, where billions of dollars in war debts were never repaid.

1. How did joining the war help tje issue of debts like you earlier pointed out? I'm not really sure if you meant to reiterate that point with the last sentence in your post.

2. I don't think I'm completely right, but I consider that the UK was in a bad way during that war and was pretty close to getting run over by Germany. So I wonder if they belo.g in the list of strong allies. However, we know why they were in the war: they opposed Hitler's bid to annex all of Europe. So she went to war out of both a sense of responsibility and confisence in her strength. And she did so early. I think the USSR joined pretty late, why did she?

3. Why would the US have felt threatened by the USSR back then especially considering the isolationist policies you mentioned? I base that question on the assumption that it is true indeed that she was advised to attack the Soviet Union. I don't know that it is in fact true.

Ubenedictus: while i believe that north korea is simply trying to threathen the U.S i doubt a 3rd world war won't affect the U. S that much. England will support the U. S but doubt all europe will do same!!

Russia will be in trouble since europe in in its south, the asian countries will help securing its pacific boder.

U S on the otherhand has made interesting enemies in its south, those countries may not actively participate but they'll allow d enemies of the U. S to use them as lauching pads.

All in all, isreal will be isolated, asia will use the U. S base in the region for target practice, isreal's neighbour will team up and teach isreal a lesson.

Pro russian american states will engage Pro american European states and russia will be pulling its weight to protect its allies. China, japan will protect d pacific fontiers and will have no problem joining to isolate U. S base in the area and attacking europe. Russia's main pre occupation will be the U. S, the atlantic frontier will be the battle field. Cuba, venezuela and co will serve as bases against the U S and d U S will take pleasure in crushing them. At the end i don't think the present world powers will still be world powers.

pleep: American companies & the U.S gov were giving the U.K war materials like raw steel etc and money on credit for their war effort. I also assume they were accepting British notes as payment for their services. If Britain fell that would not only mean this money was useless, but that Britain could not pay back the money it owed the United states.

My last post was to explain why the United States was so hesitant to enter the the war militarily. This was because 2 decades earlier, in WW1, the exact same situation occured, but that time the European allies refused to pay their debts. This is partially why the American government was so hesitant to get involved in European affairs during WW2. However, the war financing was mainly done by the private sector, outside of the governments control.

The U.S government could not afford to let its companies loose so much money if the allies fell so they entered the war. (With other reasons of course)

I guess you could say that... but an unfairly high burden was placed on the U.K because of the French capitulation so early in the war. While the British were beaten pretty badly in France, they managed to fight back the German Air-force in The battle of Britain holding off the German Advance in the west front. This was very important.

The USSR joined the War because Germany Attacked them. This was despite a treaty the two nations had, and it was Hitler's worst mistake. If he had not attacked the Soviets he would have won the war.

It was the fear of communism. Every western nation, including germany, was afraid of the threat posed by increased communist influence both domestically and internationally. Keep in mind the west was in a huge world-wide depression and there was a real threat of communism taking hold in the united states itself.

Back then it looked like capitalism would fail, and the status quo wanted to do anything to stop this.

pleep: General Macarthur wanted to end the Korean war by attacking China with nukes. Aren't you glad they didn't?

America has its hands tied, if it act too aggressivly people like you will demonize it, if it act to passively people demonize it too

Ok. I get this but then they had to have some reason to believe that entering the war should end in their favor. Why did they believe that? It's the early forties and everyone had muscle so why did the US feel confident that entering the war would result in their favor?

Ok. I agree with all of this. Now, my curiosity is why the Soviet Union stayed out of the war at first. The UK might have ultimately lost, America might have stayed out and Europe would have fallen completely to Hitler. If that had happened, I find it really curious that Russia should have thought that any treaty would keep her safe from such a giant and powerful neighbor.

If Russia had a chance at all against Germany, shouldn't she have thrown in her lot on England's side to prevent the rise of a powerful empire right at her window? Why didn't she fight sooner?

pleep: Well they had no choice but to enter the war, they were attacked at pearl harbor, they had financial interest, and the public supported military response.

As for the war in Europe, i don't think defeat was a real fear for the Americans. The main worry was how many lives victory would cost. Germany had been massively weakend by fighting all of Europe at the same time and defeat at Stalingrad meant their eastern flank was collapsing. All this while the U.S was fresh and morale was high. In addition to this, American military industry was probably the most productive in the world at this point, due to the fact that it wasn't being bombed for the last 5 years.

The Soviets had signed a deals with Germany called the Ribbentrop-Molotov Pact and The Secret Protocol. These basically agreed to let the Russians split eastern Europe with the Nazis after the Germans has won the war. They were also going to supply each other with food and heavy equiptment during the fighting

The Russians almost thought of themselves in "cohoots" with the Germans and they were caught completely off guard when Germany attacked. It was such a suicidal move that i don't think anyone could have anticipated it. Keep in mind that is the exact same way Germany lost WWI

shy-mmex:


For all the theoretical American propaganda in the east - the Iskander missile alone will negate NATO's advancement in the east... Everything is just to bully defenceless and little countries... Where was NATO when Russia's reservists and their weakest Army regiment pummelled Georgia George Bush ranted and the other NATO countries murmured, but nothing happened... They had to send Sarkozy to Moscow a few times to plead with Putin...

Why's NATO scared of direct confrontation is Syria Tell them to declare a no-fly zone there to save humanity and see if the Russians won't use their fighter jets for target practice... You know the Russians are in Tartus, right?? And they deployed a few Iskander missiles there to counter the less efficient American Patriot missiles...

America is more or less a paper tiger, to be honest... Let's all pray against a wider war - the US is too immature to take on countries with years of experience in fighting wars... The yanks just like claiming everyone's glory as theirs like they claimed World war 2... every sane person knows that the Russians won that war for Europe...

Ubenedictus: my dear, this is very untrue!! Strategically and technically japan had the advantage, for all intent and purposes america was as good as asking for a treaty. The thing nobody saw coming were the nukes!! Why do you think d U. S would use d nukes at that time. Infact is was a desperate move to shift the advantage.

Ihedinobi:

You're kidding, right? You really think the EU will turn her back on the US? Wanna venture a guess why?



I'm sure I don't understand what you are saying here. How will Russia be in trouble because she has Europe south of her if the EU won't back the US? Why wjll her Asian neighbors help to secure her Pacific border? Because they like her?



Which countries can serve as some examples and how are you sure that their hatred for the US will outweigh their concern for any other consequence of allying themselves with America's enemies?



Israel will be isolated? Ok, I can accept that she will be, but I'm gaping at her neighbor's ganging up to teach her a lesson. I wonder if you know either the history or current happenings of and in that region. I said the region will explode becaise that part of the world is about the least predictable except for the fact that Israel will beat the hell out of anyone in that region that attacks them. If for some weird reason, the Arabs actually form a successful alliance to take on Israel, things will get really simple.

In such an event, there'll be just two sides: Israel and the Arabs and the Arabs aren't a safe bet even then. But should they in fact beat Israel, they'll instantly turn on each other.

The more likely event however is that Israel will try to confuse the alliance and the fight will grow messy. Then Israel might pick them off one by one or just watch them kill each other off and help by killing anyone that runs her way. However, Israel might survive with very severe and deep wounds. Because in royal rumbles, just about any freaking thing can happen.



Honestly, the above didn't make a lot of sense to me. When I think you're saying that US allies will act to protect America, you end up saying they'll in fact fight America. When I think you're going to show how pro-Russian American states are going to will feature I get something that doesn't quite make sense.

Why would South American states go to war across the ocean just cos they hate America? It makes more sense that they should attack America herself next door. But then US allies also next door will beat the crap out of them for trying. You thought of Canada and, at least, Brazil, didn't you when you were typing? On the American continents, one of them is a military heavyweight too and the other is a budding heavywweight.

On the Pacific front, why would Japan want to "isolate" US bases? A major breakdown of peace in that region is a good excuse for them to go to war with China. And Taiwan and Nepal are two other formidable enemies that China has. One, as far as I know, Nepal, is occupied by China. Taiwan is not recognized by China to be a country in her right but she holds that she is sovereign from China. She would take a piece of the action against China. South Korea has more reason to fight on America's side against China than against America. However she should be occupied with North Korea.

Russia will have to face the EU and all the small nations that surround her and don't like her.

At least, America will emerge still a major player but I think China and Russia will be very badly hurt by such a war. Europe will be hurt too, but she'll still be there. The Middle East may vanish completely or one or two badly damaged nations will survive. Africa will just die from the fallouts of the war, nuclear and otherwise.

firstolalekan: [size=16pt]LETS GO DIER[/size].
[size=18pt]THIS IS WHAT HAV BEEN WAITING FOR[/size].
LET THEM ENGAGE THE U.S SO THAT IRAN CAN DEAL WITH DAT TINY ISRAEL.
[size=20pt]ISRAEL HAS BEEN HIDING UNDER U.S SKIRT TO MAKE MOUTH[/size].

Ihedinobi:

A few questions then:

1. How did joining the war help tje issue of debts like you earlier pointed out? I'm not really sure if you meant to reiterate that point with the last sentence in your post.

2. I don't think I'm completely right, but I consider that the UK was in a bad way during that war and was pretty close to getting run over by Germany. So I wonder if they belo.g in the list of strong allies. However, we know why they were in the war: they opposed Hitler's bid to annex all of Europe. So she went to war out of both a sense of responsibility and confisence in her strength. And she did so early. I think the USSR joined pretty late, why did she?

3. Why would the US have felt threatened by the USSR back then especially considering the isolationist policies you mentioned? I base that question on the assumption that it is true indeed that she was advised to attack the Soviet Union. I don't know that it is in fact true.

firstolalekan: [size=16pt]LETS GO DIER[/size].
[size=18pt]THIS IS WHAT HAV BEEN WAITING FOR[/size].
LET THEM ENGAGE THE U.S SO THAT [color=# 990000]IRAN[/color] CAN DEAL WITH DAT TINY ISRAEL.
[size=20pt]ISRAEL HAS BEEN HIDING UNDER U.S SKIRT TO MAKE MOUTH[/size].

shy-mmex:


Obviously, the guy who answered the question is an ex US marine, what do you expect him to say Military isn't about spending power - it's about how effective you're and the loyalty/discipline of your combatants.... Most of US military spending is on foreign bases they don't really need and bogus things... The US just grounded F-35s - do you how much it wasted on the project alone The F-22s are still there with oxygen problems...

For every $1million the US spends on a fighter jet - the Chinese spends probably a tenth of that on the same project, and the way the strategise is more effective than the US or A... Like they say: "defense is the best form of attack"... and China military defense strategy is arguably the best in the world... Don't even get me started with the Russians and what Messr Putin has started for the modernisation of the Russian military - everyone needs to be scared, trust me.... For all of the yanks wasteful military spending - the Russians still have the best ICBM technology in the world... and also the most effective missile defense technology... Perhaps, you were asleep when the Russians tested a new ICBM last year.... heck, the Israelis thought the ICBM was a UFO...

Even the hyped drones are becoming obsolete after the Iranians stay capturing them, and getting the technology for free... The yanks now escort all their drones in the gulf with fighter jets.... So, what's the point of having drones when you still have to get a couple of fighter jets to follow it everywhere?? Another wasteful military adventurism...

Don't believe the hype - all the superpowers(USA, China and RUssia - UK and FRance are irrelevant) have big guns and they can all inflict collateral damage on one another...

We all need to pray against war because when shiit hits the fan - it'll be maximum destruction for everyone involved...

smajatt:
dude u ar a slowpoke,do u think the US was stupid wen it went to war with Iraq?ooooo and u really think Russia won the war in Europe during WW2,dude u nid to read extensively,i thing about the US is that they are reasonable,they think and act on both positive and negative,the US knows what the effect of a global scale war means,take osama bin laden for example,the Us actually killed that guy on Pakistan territory without Pakistan even knowing what was going on in there backyard,dude who does that if not the US,who has military base in 130 countries if not the US,who has control over the GPS technology if nt the US.Man don't just open ur mouth and talk and FYI there is a law that guides modern warfare,just pray that there isn't any cause for a global warfare belive then would u really know what this guys are capable of,and as for Russia well i have to give it to them they are 1 son of a fucker,they are very strong too and determined but stupid,do u know that during the cold war American pushed Russia into a nuclear race to the point that Russians started starving and America as wise as she is she would announce to Russia we now have 20 war heads whereas its only 10 they built,now stupid Russsia will race into building 50 making them to spend there resources on nuclear heads....blah blah blah but my point is after putting Russia into a frenzy race the same US that started the race now made propaganda videos of the good lives americans lived and send it into russia making the starved Russian population turn against there goverment who in turn had to now com back to UN for help,now who has influence in UN if nt the US....dude dnt let us just start tokin political history.

firstolalekan: [size=16pt]LETS GO DIER[/size].
[size=18pt]THIS IS WHAT HAV BEEN WAITING FOR[/size].
LET THEM ENGAGE THE U.S SO THAT IRAN CAN DEAL WITH DAT TINY ISRAEL.
[size=20pt]ISRAEL HAS BEEN HIDING UNDER U.S SKIRT TO MAKE MOUTH[/size].

Kay-Dee:
The US will be secretly wishing that none of these hot spots (Syria, Iran, Mali and N.Korea) boils over the red line; they would rather not get into any senseless war, they are not ready for another one (psychologically / financially). They haven't recovered from the Iraq-Afghanistan fiasco, the economy is still very shaky, they can't even pay returning and wounded vets, 10 yrs after the Iraqi invasion, people are still outraged that they got into it in the first place; but if it comes down to the 'come down', they wont hesitate to delete North Korea from the world map.

. . . . . and as long as we have troublesome countries and terrorist who may one day just decide to nuke themselves and take the whole world along, I don't mind having the US do world policing duties.

firstolalekan: [size=16pt]LETS GO DIER[/size].
[size=18pt]THIS IS WHAT HAV BEEN WAITING FOR[/size].
LET THEM ENGAGE THE U.S SO THAT IRAN CAN DEAL WITH DAT TINY ISRAEL.
[size=20pt]ISRAEL HAS BEEN HIDING UNDER U.S SKIRT TO MAKE MOUTH[/size].

Ihedinobi:
Yeah, I know about WW1, that's why the story always confuses me. Germany losing to Russia twice for the same reason. Tough to imagine that.

Anyhow, I can see why neither the US nor the UK would have liked to see Russia win that war. They'd just have gone on to annex Germany and the nations she defeated to themselves. And eventually tried to finish the campaign Hitler started.

But how come they lost as many personnel as @michaeljones36 pointed out if they were that strong?

Ihedinobi:
The part about Pearl Harbor is the explanation I always had for why the US entered the war and Churchill's relentless request for help from them. That was why I got curious about the asssertion that Russia could have won the war for Europe.

If she could have, why did a reluctant America have to get in? Pearl Harbor wasn't sufficient as an explanation because if America declared war on Japan, she needn't have been in Europe as well, in my opinion unless as a result of having to deal with Japan's allies.

I considered Winston Churchill's relentless begging (by the way, I don't think I ever established firmly that he did in fact plead relentlessly for America's help) as the ultimate reason for America's presence in Europe. Pearl Harbor only served as a good excuse to get there, as far as I was concerned. But your answers make a lot more sense, I suppose.

pleep: So true, i thought i was the only one who believed this.

The Russians could have probably taken on Germany alone after the defeat of the 6th army at stalingrad.