Mart d dart: Scriptures need to be brought up...that's the only foot-hold a christian has

Is the Bible the only "foot-hold" the early Christians had? Did they even ever hear the word "Bible" at all?

italo:

Is the Bible the only "foot-hold" the early Christians had? Did they even ever hear the word "Bible" at all?

Mart d dart: the Bible

I was refering to modern day christians...please, read previous posts before commenting, so as to get the point and avoid misconceptions

Mart d dart: I was refering to modern day christians...please, read previous posts before commenting, so as to get the point and avoid misconceptions

So who made the Bible "the only foot-hold that Christians have" and when was this done, since it wasnt like that in the Beginning?

I get what you are trying to do. Anyway, the authorship of the Bible is not what is in question...what I meant by "foot hold" was more like a means of verifying that some of the doctrines practiced were not given by God

italo:

So who made the Bible "the only foot-hold that Christians have" and when was this done, since it wasnt like that in the Beginning?

this is d point, please answer.

Ubenedictus: this is d point, please answer.

I see you're back...Welcome...Like I said before, the Authorship of the Bible has never been in doubt for Me(Don't know about You, seeing as the topic has now moved from it's original purpose)
I know you want Me to say the bible wasn't always there, that the "catholics" brought it. Truth is, they brought an adulterated version of the Bible...have you ever bothered to read the ten commandments with the "catholic bible" the commandment that say "Thou shalt not make for thyself a graven image......was cut off and the first commandment was further broken into 2 to cover the space and allow the commandments remain 10...look it up and serve as a witness

Mart d dart: I get what you are trying to do. Anyway, the authorship of the Bible is not what is in question...what I meant by "foot hold" was more like a means of verifying that some of the doctrines practiced were not given by God

Will you please be honourable and 'Christian' enough and answer my question honestly? You cannot know what I am trying to do until I do it, except you are claiming to be God who sees the future and the mind.

You said the Bible is the only foot-hold modern Christians have...

...and I ask again: who made the Bible the only foot-hold that modern Christians have and when was it done, since it wasnt so in the beginning?

Simple question that demands simple answer.

I bliv arguments like this help in shaping our xtian blif. Although am cath educated enough to hav a sufficient open mind and respect for other people's opinions. I hav taken my time to ensure thru research that catholicism holds and teaches the truth. History has a litany of those who hav asked critical questions abt the chr and the chr has taken time to answer bt it is obvious that the kingdom of darkness sees the cath chr as itz greatest pain and therefore uses people (even xtians and some caths) to discredit the chr. And they do this wt so much self assurance that they're fighting for God.
@Op, to make for a more reliable and credible scholarly research you must quote uncontrovertible sources for each quote you make cos am sure u realise these are very controversial assertions u've made.
I hope non-caths must learn that caths are NOT idol worshippers.
Sometimes we ask questions just to bring down the chr bt the gates of hell shall not prevail aaginst it (and indeed against xtianity) cos he'll be wt them till the end of time.
God bless his chr and his people

1MCN: I bliv arguments like this help in shaping our xtian blif. Although am cath educated enough to hav a sufficient open mind and respect for other people's opinions. I hav taken my time to ensure thru research that catholicism holds and teaches the truth. History has a litany of those who hav asked critical questions abt the chr and the chr has taken time to answer bt it is obvious that the kingdom of darkness sees the cath chr as itz greatest pain and therefore uses people (even xtians and some caths) to discredit the chr. And they do this wt so much self assurance that they're fighting for God.
@Op, to make for a more reliable and credible scholarly research you must quote uncontrovertible sources for each quote you make cos am sure u realise these are very controversial assertions u've made.
I hope non-caths must learn that caths are NOT idol worshippers.
Sometimes we ask questions just to bring down the chr bt the gates of hell shall not prevail aaginst it (and indeed against xtianity) cos he'll be wt them till the end of time.
God bless his chr and his people

can you please define who an idol worshiper is?



after that please tell me if Catholics are nt idol worshipers .....



dead meat worshippers...

ijawkid:
can you please define who an idol worshiper is?

One that ascribes divinity to anything other than God and worships it.

ijawkid: after that please tell me if Catholics are nt idol worshipers .....

We are not.

ijawkid: dead meat worshippers...

Why do you say so?

Mart d dart:
I know you want Me to say the bible wasn't always there, that the "catholics" brought it. Truth is, they brought an adulterated version of the Bible...have you ever bothered to read the ten commandments with the "catholic bible" the commandment that say "Thou shalt not make for thyself a graven image......was cut off and the first commandment was further broken into 2 to cover the space and allow the commandments remain 10...look it up and serve as a witness

italo:

Will you please be honourable and 'Christian' enough and answer my question honestly? You cannot know what I am trying to do until I do it, except you are claiming to be God who sees the future and the mind.

You said the Bible is the only foot-hold modern Christians have...

...and I ask again: who made the Bible the only foot-hold that modern Christians have and when was it done, since it wasnt so in the beginning?

Simple question that demands simple answer.

Lol...I've indeed answered that question. Plus, I never said I was God..so please be "honourable enough" to actually read previous posts before commenting

Mart d dart: Lol...I've indeed answered that question. Plus, I never said I was God..so please be "honourable enough" to actually read previous posts before commenting

I have read the posts several times. I dont see anywhere you answered the question: "who made the bible the only foot-hold that modern christians have?"

If you cannot answer, we will simply take it as your own opinion.

Mart d dart: Lol...I've indeed answered that question. Plus, I never said I was God..so please be "honourable enough" to actually read previous posts before commenting

you have nothing to offer. who made the bible the only foothold of christians? you cant answer; when was it done? no answer. and you still have the courage to continue discussing issues. just park. or what else do you people want from us? leave us alone! enjoy your own form of christianity. catholics dont depend on the bible alone for its practices. the church has existed for over 300 years before the bible came to be and if all copies of the bible disappears today, the church will continue for it is guided by the Holy Spirit through men. what do you want from us catholics? we are in a living, a church guided by the spirit. leave us alone.

just park.

Man wrote it with inspiration from the Almighty

italo:

I have read the posts several times. I dont see anywhere you answered the question: "who made the bible the only foot-hold that modern christians have?"

If you cannot answer, we will simply take it as your own opinion.

dokie:

you have nothing to offer. who made the bible the only foothold of christians? you cant answer; when was it done? no answer. and you still have the courage to continue discussing issues. just park. or what else do you people want from us? leave us alone! enjoy your own form of christianity. catholics dont depend on the bible alone for its practices. the church has existed for over 300 years before the bible came to be and if all copies of the bible disappears today, the church will continue for it is guided by the Holy Spirit through men. what do you want from us catholics? we are in a living, a church guided by the spirit. leave us alone.

just park.

I understand your point, there's no need for throwing a tantrum, I believe we're all mature adults and it would serve as a thing of pride if we acted our ages...
That resolved, my point by saying the bible IS the only "foothold of modern day christians" is evident since a lot of christians do not really lay much emphasis on the Holy Spirit, this christians however trust the bible to a fault and the only means of actually getting through to such people is directly through the bible
Like I said before, the Bible's authorship and history is not what is taking centre point in this discussion...The Catholic "doctrines" are

If you have been following this thread, You'll rightly see that I have put up some links, bible verses and quotes...I'd really like feedback on what my catholic brothers and sisters think...thanks

1MCN: I bliv arguments like this help in shaping our xtian blif. Although am cath educated enough to hav a sufficient open mind and respect for other people's opinions. I hav taken my time to ensure thru research that catholicism holds and teaches the truth. History has a litany of those who hav asked critical questions abt the chr and the chr has taken time to answer bt it is obvious that the kingdom of darkness sees the cath chr as itz greatest pain and therefore uses people (even xtians and some caths) to discredit the chr. And they do this wt so much self assurance that they're fighting for God.
@Op, to make for a more reliable and credible scholarly research you must quote uncontrovertible sources for each quote you make cos am sure u realise these are very controversial assertions u've made.
I hope non-caths must learn that caths are NOT idol worshippers.
Sometimes we ask questions just to bring down the chr bt the gates of hell shall not prevail aaginst it (and indeed against xtianity) cos he'll be wt them till the end of time.
God bless his chr and his people

A pure case of misconception, the Op and I have nothing against catholics, only their doctrines...
secondly, please stop refering to the catholic church as "The church" seeing as they are not the only Christian Church worldwide thirdly, you said something about the devil using people to tarnish the catholic image: the funny thing is: it goes both ways, the devil could actually be using the catholics and their "doctrines" to move other christians from the path of God
Last of all, you said you did some "research" seeing as I have shared mine with you, could you please post this research for all to see?

Mart d dart: I'm happy you chose a civilized avenue to let your views known...

On "Honouring" Mary
www.gotquestions.org/worship-saints-mary.html

Here's a link that tells why there is nothing wrong with honoring the mother of Jesus. http://www.cmri.org/94prog9.htm

Mart d dart: On Peter being Pope and why the title " Pope" was not dictated by the Bible
www.bible.ca/cath-peter=pope.htm

Here's a link that shows that Peter was the first pope. http://www.ewtn.com/library/ANSWERS/PETPOPE.HTM

Mart d dart: here's an overview of some of the teachings that are not in accordance with the bible
www.bible.ca/cath-overview-false-teaching.htm

Here are links that show that NO Catholic teaching is contrary to scripture. www.biblechristiansociety.com www.scripturecatholic.com

Mart d dart: For the record, I'm not the initiator of this thread but I believe I'll try my best to treat your views with consideration

P.S my point with Romans being spear heads of "Christianity" stems from them trying over the centuries to adulterate Christianity by inducing teachings that are not in compliance with the Gospel

praying to Mary to intercede for you is wrong, read 1 Timothy 2: 5

And you are yet to prove that the Catholic Church adulterated Chistianity.

That verse you quoted doesnt say that "praying to Mary to intercede for you is wrong." However, I understand that that is what you want to force the verse to say.

Mart d dart: A pure case of misconception, the Op and I have nothing against catholics, only their doctrines...
secondly, please stop refering to the catholic church as "The church" seeing as they are not the only Christian Church worldwide thirdly, you said something about the devil using people to tarnish the catholic image: the funny thing is: it goes both ways, the devil could actually be using the catholics and their "doctrines" to move other christians from the path of God
Last of all, you said you did some "research" seeing as I have shared mine with you, could you please post this research for all to see?

You mean there are many Christian Churches worldwide? Which among these was the "CHURCH" (SINGULAR) that Jesus said he would build on "...Peter...this rock..?"

*going through the links*...did you actually read the verse?-the woman tried to "bless/praise" the womb that bore Jesus but He cut her short

As regarding the issue concerning the church...He was refering to the Catholic Church as "the Church" this was very wrong, it shows bias which should not be allowed to take centre stage on this thread

Mart d dart: A pure case of misconception, the Op and I have nothing against catholics, only their doctrines...
secondly, please stop refering to the catholic church as "The church" seeing as they are not the only Christian Church worldwide

Lol u dey vex! After all 2000 years of existence, there must be something about the Church that has made it last so long. The church compiled the bible, verified its content, translated it into other languages, the church preserved christian history and traditions. The church has produced erudite scholars and theologians. Faith for us should be more than what feels right or what we intepret from the bible. The bible can mean whatever you want it too. And dont vex if we refer to the catholic church as "The Church" she is the only church that can trace her roots to Christ, no other church can do that. She has evolved over the years and that is because change is the only constant thing.

italo:

One that ascribes divinity to anything other than God and worships it.

.......and this does not apply to mary and her moulded image??...the mary you guys say never died nor was born a sinner.......

italo:

We are not.

Hmmm.......bead users claim they aint idolaters.......mayb you could explain that to buddhists.....

italo:

Why do you say so?

You need pictures again??.....

math-diva:

Lol u dey vex! After all 2000 years of existence, there must be something about the Church that has made it last so long. The church compiled the bible, verified its content, translated it into other languages, the church preserved christian history and traditions. The church has produced erudite scholars and theologians. Faith for us should be more than what feels right or what we intepret from the bible. The bible can mean whatever you want it too. And dont vex if we refer to the catholic church as "The Church" she is the only church that can trace her roots to Christ, no other church can do that. She has evolved over the years and that is because change is the only constant thing.

Change doesn't just cut it except it's positive change

"The only church that can trace it's record to Jesus Christ" was that before or after the romans who are the founders of the catholic faith gave orders for him to be cruxified and tried to kill all the apostles and believers who bore witness to his ressurection
funny you should mention the "bible" been brought into existence by the catholics, have you even bothered to research why the catholics altered the bible from its original state, refused the bible from being translated into other languages other than Latin...speaking of which, have you read the "catholic version" of the bible, compare the ten commandments in that version with original text version

I talked to a catholic friend and He told me He was taught by his parish priest that Mary died a virgin...so for all y'all who are like-minded, please read Mark 6:3...her other children include Joses, Judas, James and Simon, it was also stated that she had daughters although their names were not mentioned

Mart d dart: *going through the links*...did you actually read the verse?-the woman tried to "bless/praise" the womb that bore Jesus but He cut her short

I have read that verse about 100 times. I still cant find the part of it that says "praying to Mary to intercede for you is wrong."

Can you show me that part?

Also, Mary says, in the book of Luke, "all generations shall call me BLESSED." So do you think that Jesus was contradicting that statement and also contradicting God's commandment that he should honour his mother?

The articles in the links were written with good command of the english language...thats the only good thing about them, the one on exulting or praising mary is espiecially laughable, enough said
the links I posted will serve as a rep for affirmation, I didn't post up articles, I posted argument points followed closely with multiple verses from the bible(not catholic edition)..if I wanted an article I would have easily asked for it(there are lots of those on the internet)
Point of reference for posting of future links: Discussion points not lengthy and pointless articles

Mart d dart: As regarding the issue concerning the church...He was refering to the Catholic Church as "the Church" this was very wrong, it shows bias which should not be allowed to take centre stage on this thread

So as we KNOW The Catholic Church to be the one true Church, we shouldnt proclaim it so because we want other people will call it "bias?"

I asked and you didnt tell me: You mean there are many Christian Churches worldwide? Which among these was the "CHURCH" (SINGULAR) that Jesus said he would build on "...Peter...this rock..?"

italo:

I have read that verse about 100 times. I still cant find the part of it that says "praying to Mary to intercede for you is wrong."

Can you show me that part?

Also, Mary says, in the book of Luke, "all generations shall call me BLESSED." So do you think that Jesus was contradicting that statement and also contradicting God's commandment that he should honour his mother?

Luke 11:27 "As Jesus was saying these things, a woman in the crowd called out, "Blessed is the mother who gave birth and nursed you"
28 He replied, "rather, blessed are those who hear the word of God and obey it"
If this doesn't show you, I wonder what will

Mart d dart: As regarding the issue concerning the church...He was refering to the Catholic Church as "the Church" this was very wrong, it shows bias which should not be allowed to take centre stage on this thread

Some have tried to point out the difference between The Christian Church or catholic Church on the one hand and the Roman Catholic Church on the other.

That difference is reflected in the description of the catholic Church below --- granted its last line or so is inflammatory.

Westminster Confession of Faith

Chapter XXV
Of the Church

I. The catholic or universal Church, which is invisible, consists of the whole number of the elect, that have been, are, or shall be gathered into one, under Christ the Head thereof; and is the spouse, the body, the fulness of Him that fills all in all.

II. The visible Church, which is also catholic or universal under the Gospel (not confined to one nation, as before under the law), consists of all those throughout the world that profess the true religion; and of their children: and is the kingdom of the Lord Jesus Christ, the house and family of God, out of which there is no ordinary possibility of salvation.

III. Unto this catholic visible Church Christ has given the ministry, oracles, and ordinances of God, for the gathering and perfecting of the saints, in this life, to the end of the world: and does, by His own presence and Spirit, according to His promise, make them effectual thereunto.

IV. This catholic Church has been sometimes more, sometimes less visible. And particular Churches, which are members thereof, are more or less pure, according as the doctrine of the Gospel is taught and embraced, ordinances administered, and public worship performed more or less purely in them.

V. The purest Churches under heaven are subject both to mixture and error; and some have so degenerated, as to become no Churches of Christ, but synagogues of Satan. Nevertheless, there shall be always a Church on earth to worship God according to His will.[12]

VI. There is no other head of the Church but the Lord Jesus Christ. Nor can the Pope of Rome, in any sense, be head thereof; but is that Antichrist, that man of sin, and son of perdition, that exalts himself, in the Church, against Christ and all that is called God.

Mart d dart: Change doesn't just cut it except it's positive change

"The only church that can trace it's record to Jesus Christ" was that before or after the romans who are the founders of the catholic faith gave orders for him to be cruxified and tried to kill all the apostles and believers who bore witness to his ressurection
funny you should mention the "bible" been brought into existence by the catholics, have you even bothered to research why the catholics altered the bible from its original state, refused the bible from being translated into other languages other than Latin...speaking of which, have you read the "catholic version" of the bible, compare the ten commandments in that version with original text version

You have very poor and disgraceful (I'm sorry to say) knowledge of Christian history.

Tell us when the Romans founded the Catholic Church - with evidence.

Tell us when the Bible came about and how it was in its "original state", and tell us when the Catholics altered it by creating the "Catholic version."

Mart d dart: The articles in the links were written with good command of the english language...thats the only good thing about them, the one on exulting or praising mary is espiecially laughable, enough said
the links I posted will serve as a rep for affirmation, I didn't post up articles, I posted argument points followed closely with multiple verses from the bible(not catholic edition)..if I wanted an article I would have easily asked for it(there are lots of those on the internet)
Point of reference for posting of future links: Discussion points not lengthy and pointless articles

But you have not been able to refute anything in the links I posted.