@HND-holder
I pray HND leaves Nigeria soon o, because it is a very difficult certificate.

Yes o, if PDP god-father, Adedibu can die it means HND will surely pass away too.

For sur the end has come for HND not polytechnic

Hnd-holder:

For sur the end has come for HND not polytechnic

Me i would have loved both HND and polytechnic to go together. Nigerians hate HND certificate not because of the name but because it comes from polytechnic, and people do not believe in anything that comes from polytechnic; so let both of them go.

ASUP was so selfish, all member of ASUP were university Drop out, they came as glorified lectures in polytechnic so they do not have what it takes to be a university of technology lecturers that is why

Hnd-holder:

ASUP was so selfish, all member of ASUP were university Drop out, they came as glorified lectures in polytechnic so they do not have what it takes to be a university of technology lecturers that is why

90% of polytechnic lecturers are university graduates; why is it like that?? To me polytechnic lecturers should be people that passed through polytechnic (HND program) before proceeding to the university for further studies. This also to me accounts for why some polytechnic graduates in science and Technology fields know nothing about practical technology.

Bsc is superior to HND. That is a fact that cannot be disputed.

HND was created to cater for mid level manpower. It's been like
that for ages. It's now more obvious because of the scarcity of
good jobs.

Even if you are a civil servant, there is a level you cannot go
past as a HND holder.

I'm a HND holder and I did not bother to look for a job because
of this. But I'm not bothered because I knew whats up before
I went to the polytechnic.

Yes why is it that the work load in the polytechnic is more they should close these school if when you have the HND you can not move agian. Useless university certificates will be more useless.

akinalabi:

HND was created to cater for[b] mid level manpower[/b]. It's been like
that for ages. It's now more obvious because of the scarcity of
good jobs.

I doubt if you know the meaning of middle level manpower. If you call HND middle level, what would you call ND?? are you going to say ND is lower level manpower if i may ask??

Hnd-holder:

Yes why is it that the work load in the polytechnic is more they should close these school if when you have the HND you can not move agian. Useless university certificates will be more useless.

But why is it so? Polytechnics carry more load than universities and yet some people still think it is not enough for HND certificate to be compared with a Bsc degree.

am a hnd holder and am real smart. i don't boast but mos university students cant stand me. I write exams test 4 those in d universities eg:UNILAG so at d end wat's in a certificate. the world has gone global its either they merge polys as university colleges do some upgrades and make nigerian education qualitative. Lastly, technology cant be thrown away look at AMERICA JAPAN CHINA INDIA UK RUSSIA GERMANY even INDONESIA its all about science development nothing is taken 4 granted. As long as we have half baked, mediocres in the senate, house of assembly its a ground for the blind leading those dat see.
money eating minsters PDP mafias
Long and short of it all is dat no man or woman is/can be valued by paper certificate but by the worth of his mentality and proof of work and experience so the HND 's and Bsc's should be treated equally. CIAO

if HND certificate is what is causing problem for polytechnics in Nigeria it should be scrapped and abolished and replaced with another certificate so that poly graduates can breath and eat well again. The discrimination of HND certificate has affected so many mentally and psychologically.

@HND-holder

I learnt FG wants polytechnics to start awarding BTech Degrees. The BTech will replace HND. How true is this story?

This is true come 2008/09, also accountancy and Business studies to leave poly.

Everyone here KNEW there was a discrimination before they entered the polytechnic. This isn't a case of attending NYSC with Bsc people or being told fancy promises. You all KNEW.
Knowing that you were going to be discriminated against, you guys still entered the Poly. So why the uproar now?

You set yourselves up for this, and now you're getting what you had to have known was coming, you're crying. That's pathetic.


I'm not here to say that BSc Graduates are better or smarter. All i'm saying is there's a harsh reality on ground and you all had to have known this. When i wrote my JAMB in 1997 i knew that PolyJamb was not an option so id idnt even consider it.

texazzpete:

Everyone here KNEW there was a discrimination before they entered the polytechnic. This isn't a case of attending NYSC with Bsc people or being told fancy promises. You all KNEW.
Knowing that you were going to be discriminated against, you guys still entered the Poly. So why the uproar now?

You set yourselves up for this, and now you're getting what you had to have known was coming, you're crying. That's pathetic.


I'm not here to say that BSc Graduates are better or smarter. All I'm saying is there's a harsh reality on ground and you all had to have known this. When i wrote my JAMB in 1997 i knew that PolyJamb was not an option so id idnt even consider it.

You are just a poor boy of yesterday who knew nothing of what we are talking about here. Do u want want those that are not as lucky as yourself financial wise or parental wise who decided to have a taste of technological education as alternative to die?This was not the pattern in other world even third world NAMIBIA to mention a few. Keep your mouth shut if you have no reasonable thing to say here.

As B. Tech Unseats HND

http://allafrica.com/stories/200806250141.html
This Day (Lagos)


NEWS
24 June 2008
Posted to the web 25 June 2008
Lagos

A new phase of polytechnic education begins with the federal government's recent approval of the phasing out of the Higher National Diploma (HND) for the Bachelor of Technology (B. Tech) degree. Bukola Olatunji writes on how the programme is proposed to run

Polytechnic education in the country cannot be the same again with the recent directive given to the Minister of Education, Dr. Igwe Aja-Nwachuku to introduce the Bachelor of Technology (B.Tech) in core areas in polytechnics.


All polytechnics have been notified to continue the award of the National Diploma and begin the gradual introduction of the B. Tech programmes in areas where they have the wherewithal and competence.

What is now left for the Ministry of Education is to work out the modalities. All things being equal, the transition is expected to be complete, along with the legal backing, by the end of the present administration.

Will the degrees coming out of polytechnics be seen as inferior and have to struggle for recognition? Executive Secretary of the National Board for Technical Education (NBTE), Dr. Nuru Yakubu said in an interview at the weekend, "our answer to that is an emphatic 'No'". Rather, he said, they would be superior as facts on ground show. "Go and see the products of polytechnics that had the ND and went into Universities of Technology. Their performance, so far, both academically and in the field is not comparable to those that start from the 100 level in universities. In any event, the purpose is to produce very good Engineers, not Academics and this is the best procedure."

According to him, 'the core areas in polytechnics' have to be discussed, but the Act, which empowers NBTE to do accreditation, identifies the core areas of polytechnic training as science, technology, engineering and commerce. "So, I would say that even though the generality of the people think that only science, technology and engineering programmes are covered, commerce is also there, so courses or programmes that can be defined to be within the realm of commerce, I think, should also be regarded as core."

On how the programme would run, Yakubu said the Board had met with the Rectors of polytechnics, both state and federal and articulated its position on how it thinks the implementation should go.

In the proposal, he said, "About three or four issues were agreed upon, first the entry requirement must be a minimum of five credits at SSCE, including English and Mathematics. At the recent consultative meeting with heads of polytechnics and monotechnics on the implementation of the new and revised technical and vocational education curricula held in Kaduna, Yakubu had stressed the upgrading of the entry requirement into the ND programmes to five credit level passes.

The ND will continue as it is (running for two years). Then there will be a three-year Bachelor of Technology after the ND without the one-year industrial training break. "This means that somebody who has a credit level pass at the ND can now go and spend three years at the end of which he gets the Bachelor of Technology, within a total time of five years, regardless of the area, so long as it is B.Tech in core areas.

"There will be a new curriculum, and this new curriculum, we also agreed, would be under the NBTE which should be renamed or changed into the National Commission for Polytechnics. That curriculum should be designed and developed by the National Commission for Polytechnics, which should also be the one to accredit the B.Tech programmes, not the National Universities Commission because we feel that if we are going to maintain the character and specialised nature of these polytechnics, they should have this body that accredits their own programmes otherwise, there will be no value added", the Executive Secretary explained.

As far as certification is concerned, he said, "We are of the view that after the two years, they would take the National Diploma. Then those that have credit level pass can now compete to get into the Bachelor of Technology programme and we think that judging from what is on the ground, the transition rate of those that possess the National Diploma, who go for the Higher National Diploma is between 20 and 25 percent. It is therefore possible to expect this proportion to go into the degree programme. This will greatly enhance enrolment into the degree programmes in polytechnics and we feel this is the best way forward."

It had been argued before that if another body accredits the degree programme in Polytechnics, such degrees could be dismissed with a snigger and a wave of the hand. But Yakubu said, "Our answer to that is simple. Let the market decide. Let the employers decide. Let us not just limit the argument within the realm of academic speculations. There is nothing wrong with that because there are many countries that have several bodies accrediting the award of degrees. We should be more innovative and consider our peculiar circumstances.

Hnd-holder:


You are just a poor boy of yesterday who knew nothing of what we are talking about here. Do u want want those that are not as lucky as yourself financial wise or parental wise who decided to have a taste of technological education as alternative to die?This was not the pattern in other world even third world NAMIBIA to mention a few. Keep your mouth shut if you have no reasonable thing to say here.

Don't be stupid.
Instead of asing me rhetorical questions and raining unfounded insults you should ask yourself if i've said an untruth here.

Did you not know what you were in for? Don't give me that financial line bullshit. How much did the JAMB exam cost then?
I met many people who were really broke in my university, but somehow they had the courage to soldier through.

It matters naught what they do in Namibia. What matters is what obtains in Nigeria, and as far back as i can remember the discrimination between HND and BEng was in place.

Lets not forget that all fingers are not equal.Things might be little easier when you have alternative.

Why are you sounding as ungratiful child?. If you have nothing to offer here back out. I can show you letters
JAMB/ADMS/83/
144277II
EXAM NO 602021
SERIAL NO 04974
TO UNIVERSITY OF ILORIN
SAME TO 1982 SERIAL NO 00011
29189CE
EXAM 605161
Bauchi
We went through the polytechnic yet

texazzpete:

Don't be stupid.
Instead of asing me rhetorical questions and raining unfounded insults you should ask yourself if i've said an untruth here.

Did you not know what you were in for? Don't give me that financial line bullshit. How much did the JAMB exam cost then?
I met many people who were really broke in my university, but somehow they had the courage to soldier through.

It matters naught what they do in Namibia. What matters is what obtains in Nigeria, and as far back as i can remember the discrimination between HND and BEng was in place.

had Masters Degree in four fields and a PhD. We a richer we are asking for our right here.
You are just a Kid that knew nothing but reaping from where you did no so

Ajebutter keep shut

Hnd-holder:

Why are you sounding as ungratiful child?. If you have nothing to offer here back out. I can show you letters
JAMB/ADMS/83/
144277II
EXAM NO 602021
SERIAL NO 04974
TO UNIVERSITY OF ILORIN
SAME TO 1982 SERIAL NO 00011
29189CE
EXAM 605161
Bauchi
We went through the polytechnic yet had Masters Degree in four fields and a PhD. We a richer we are asking for our right here.
You are just a Kid that knew nothing but reaping from where you did no so

Ajebutter keep shut

So at your age your written English is this poor?

What exactly am i 'ungratiful' for? At least i imagine you meant to say 'ungrateful'. I certainly do not owe gratitude to YOU, i express my gratitude to my parents all the time and my gratitude to my country is reflected in my taxes.

If you'r stupid enough at your age to believe anyone who went to a university must be an Ajebutter, i don't know what to say to you. But i imagine my former roommate (Fidelis) who used to soak gari and fish head to survive will not agree with you.
Neither will my friend Lauren who lost her parents yet went on to become a successful medical doctor.


Why do you refer to yourself as 'We'?! Multiple Personality Disorder is a serious mental illness.

You lack manners and you are so arrogant, You shall soon  experience things that make people like you to appreciate others.
Grammar is not our language, ones you can pick the meaning.

what ever you sow you will reap

HND holders are human beings too

texazzpete:

Don't be stupid.
Instead of asing me rhetorical questions and raining unfounded insults you should ask yourself if i've said an untruth here.

Did you not know what you were in for? Don't give me that financial line bullshit. How much did the JAMB exam cost then?
I met many people who were really broke in my university, but somehow they had the courage to soldier through.

It matters naught what they do in Namibia. What matters is what obtains in Nigeria, and as far back as i can remember the discrimination between HND and BEng was in place.

Hnd-holder:

You lack manners and you are so arrogant, You shall soon experience things that make people like you to appreciate others.
Grammar is not our language, ones you can pick the meaning.

what ever you sow you will reap

HND holders are human beings too

Therein lies my problem with all you guys.

Every single thread started by HND holders has soon degenrated into a bash-the -Bsc guys session. i agree you guys have been discriminated against, but is that any reason to have so much bitterness towards people who went to Universities?

A similar thread was started to lament the discrimination of Technicians compared to BEng graduates. Next thing we knew it turned into a 'techincians are far better than Engineers' debate.

The fact that i'm a BEng holder does not automatically make me arrogant or selfish. It was your arrogance, your silly assumptions that brought out the devil in me.
All you could have done was to state what eactly made you choose a Poly over a University. it could have been for a myriad of reasons. All i know is that this discrimination has been on for years and years and people walked into that situation willingly.

Ps: English is our national language.

Hnd-holder:

HND holders are human beings too

Did i say otherwise?

HND holders we are not afraid to fall, we are down already may those provoking us sink lower, may their certificate become useless in their hand so as to know the pains involved. HND is a stressfull certificate nobody earn it without a reason which are non of your business. we are down already . But anyperson or group of persons that want to provoke us, may they face the worst discrimination on earth. May they ever be denied their right, toooo

My own is that poly BTech may face discrimination like HND

@Hnd-holder
'tis an interesting phenomenon indeed! As you grow angrier, you sound more childish

Anger is an emotional state that may range from minor irritation to intense rage. The physical effects of anger include increased heart rate, blood pressure, and levels of adrenaline and noradrenaline. Some view Anger as part of the fight or flight brain response to the perceived threat of pain.Anger becomes the predominant feeling behaviorally, cognitively and physiologically when a person makes the conscious choice to take action to immediately stop the threatening behavior of another outside force.

It is never a good thing to provoke HND holders we can kill u

Hnd-holder:

Anger is an emotional state that may range from minor irritation to intense rage. The physical effects of anger include increased heart rate, blood pressure, and levels of adrenaline and noradrenaline. Some view Anger as part of the fight or flight brain response to the perceived threat of pain.Anger becomes the predominant feeling behaviorally, cognitively and physiologically when a person makes the conscious choice to take action to immediately stop the threatening behavior of another outside force.

It is never a good thing to provoke HND holders we can kill u

Whatever, man. I've since realised that this discussion is a waste of my time. Wish you all the best even if you suddenly want to kill me


Farewell.

Mr Degree holder, you are toying with fire by showing that you hate what we have or blaming us as technonogical product. We chose what we like why the obstacle in our line, is this how it is in other world? We were there I study in England I love my proffession .Why discrimating against me?
We are like disables and we can act any how if provoked. You are never welcome in the first instance.

@HND-holder
Please take it easy with that Degree holder.

Hnd-holder:

Mr Degree holder, you are toying with fire by showing that you hate what we have or blaming us as technonogical product. We chose what we like why the obstacle in our line, is this how it is in other world? We were there I study in England I love my proffession .Why discrimating against me?
We are like disables and we can act any how if provoked. You are never welcome in the first instance.

1. I don't hate what you hve
2. I have great respect for the HND holders in society. Many great people come from polytechnics, and they certainly pick up a lot of practical skills from their studies.

My point has been misconstrued by you as arrogance. ALl i've ever said was that most people complaining now knew aboutt he discrimination then. it stands to reason that they must have had a contingency plan when they started on the journey.

@texazzpete
You too take it easy. Thanx for your great respect for holders of Nigerian HND certificate. But you have not come out to tell us why on earth the HND certificate in Nigeria cannot be compared with the Bsc or BTech certificate in Nigeria. I thought the HND certificate was a Technological qualification equivalent to a Bsc or BTech certificate that was why i agreed to do the HND program. Can u tell us what the difference is between the curricula of polytechnics and universities? Can u also tell us those that do more work in academics both practical and theory?

Lastly do you think BTech certificates from polytechnics (as already proposed in Nigeria)will recieve honours and recognition like the BSc and BTech from universities?

ishmael:

@texazzpete
You too take it easy. Thanx for your great respect for holders of Nigerian HND certificate. But you have not come out to tell us why on earth the HND certificate in Nigeria cannot be compared with the Bsc or BTech certificate in Nigeria. I thought the HND certificate was a Technological qualification equivalent to a Bsc or BTech certificate that was why i agreed to do the HND program. Can u tell us what the difference is between the curricula of polytechnics and universities? Can u also tell us those that do more work in academics both practical and theory?

Lastly do you think BTech certificates from polytechnics (as already proposed in Nigeria)will recieve honours and recognition like the BSc and BTech from universities?

That's the point i've been making since! the HND is not neccessarily inferior to the Beng. But there's a discrimination ongoing in Nigeria that has been on for decades.
If you genuinely thought that the HND was a tech equivalent of the Ben, my apologies to you. The point i've been making since was that though they are comparable, there has been a discrimination existing for a long time, and i assumed anyone going for a HND would already have known of this.

As for the Btech question, i'm pretty sure employers know that Btech is a renaming of the HND decree. It depends on their attitudes to stop this discrimination