cahnellven: I dnt think any sort of arguement should emanate 4rm dis issue . 4 a start ,it is very true that medicine is the only profesion that completes all the basic medical courses(anatomy,physiology,medical biochemistry),others simply do part of it n not d full course. Now on the issue of administration,it shud be run by the most qualified medical personell,bt as we all knw,administration entails control which makes the position kinda hard to recommend 4 anyone aside a doctor cos hospital politics is different frm wat we have else where. An ideal medical team comprises of a doctor,a pharmacist,nurse,med lab scientist,anatomist,physiotherapist,and a physiologist with each controlling basic autonomy in its own field ,bt as we knw it,a doctor z d natural head of a medical team . So my view is this . . .each proffesion should head its department,with the doctor being and remaing d CMD
a Nurse or a pharmacist has never controlled john hopkins hospital

I wouldn't know d uni U attended, but in my own skool, physicians, med lab scts, nurses, Med. Imaging. Scts$ physitherapists all sat in one lecture room to receive Anatomy, Physiology $ Biochem lectures. Funny enuf, evry1 related as one, sm wia in same discussion groups .......etc. Dis ego/ discrimination thing just starts once dey start practising.

I am in support of ur view for autonomy for all oda professionals as enshrined in dia respective scheme of service but guess wat?? The C .M. D's play the script of dia fellow physicians (in cases wia dey refuse to do so, Consultants threaten dem) $ choose not to implement wat is contained in d SOS. That's why personally I feel d post of d C. M. D shld be for health adminstrators to avoid favouritism or bias.

the problem with doctors is greed....imagin a doctor claiming to know drugs more than a pharmacist...very funny

cahnellven: I dnt think any sort of arguement should emanate 4rm dis issue . 4 a start ,it is very true that medicine is the only profesion that completes all the basic medical courses(anatomy,physiology,medical biochemistry),others simply do part of it n not d full course. Now on the issue of administration,it shud be run by the most qualified medical personell,bt as we all knw,administration entails control which makes the position kinda hard to recommend 4 anyone aside a doctor cos hospital politics is different frm wat we have else where. An ideal medical team comprises of a doctor,a pharmacist,nurse,med lab scientist,anatomist,physiotherapist,and a physiologist with each controlling basic autonomy in its own field ,bt as we knw it,a doctor z d natural head of a medical team . So my view is this . . .each proffesion should head its department,with the doctor being and remaing d CMD
a Nurse or a pharmacist has never controlled john hopkins hospital

You may do well to research before you make any statement. Quite a lot of departments at john hopkins are managed and have been managed by non-physicians

ugochi86: @ochek. Same courses different cut off marks.don't know what luck u re talking about.leave the doctors alone and focus on making d best out of what u studied.

Yeah! So true but you would also agree with me that the high demand for the course gave it that cut off mark.

Too much ignorance in this post.

Nigerians always claim too know pass people wey invent something sef.

A lot of people quoting duty of CMD from the back seat of okada.

People talking about what happens in the developed countries from inside shalanga because they don port on top dem BB.

I laugh in Nairaland.

At least if you never travel overseas... Dem dey show Scrubs, House, Gray's anatomy on top DSTV.

Go watch am to see whether dem CMO na Doctor or Babalawo.

Shior. Kelebe.

eaglechild: The doctor is the head of the medical team.
Running a hospital requires a background knowledge of the workings of that hospital which is best known by the doctor because all the processes involved in patient management including requesting for medical investigations, drug prescription, patient monitoring emanate from the doctor.
The patient belongs to the doctor and he has the best knowledge of ALL the challenges in patient mgt from lack of power to run a life support machine to lack of petrol to run an ambulance (no matter how far off these may seem from actual medicine practice).
The doctor is ultimately held responsible for the well being of a patient, no other person carries a greater burden of responsibility.
ONLY A DOCTOR SHOULD HEAD A HOSPITAL LESS IT CEASES TO BE REFERRED TO AS ONE.

On point,doctors head the medical team while nurses on the other hand head the nursing team.Each of the various subunits forming the health institution has a unit head
furthermore,your submission that patients belong to doctors is untrue
Every one that visit hospital is aware nurses spend the greater number of hours with the patients than all other health professionals.
Finally,the position of hospital heads ought not be the exclusive preserve of only doctors cos the requisite skills for administering institution as such is an all encompassing one starting administrative public relation ,technically .....nurses and other health practtionaltoo have the aforestated requirements

hairyman:

You may do well to research before you make any statement. Quite a lot of departments at john hopkins are managed and have been managed by non-physicians

Yep, I bet you a lot of departments are headed by non-physicians. Like dietary department, house keeping, Pharmacy, Engineering etc.

But not Endocrinology, Surgery, Medicine or CMD.

it was during Prof. Olikoye Ransome Kuti tenure as minister of health that Doctors transmogrified into demi-gods in the health sector, both in gaping pay disparity and in assuming certain positions as a birthright. Presently they're agitating, among other things, for the post of Surgeon-General to be created because there is a position for Attorney-General. Forgetting that the A.G is a constitutionally guaranteed position and indeed the only ministerial position that has a constitutional backing. Such is the nature of their peremptory and importunate demands.They'll embark on strike at the drop of a hat to press home and armtwist the Government to cave in to their preposterous cravings. doctors have embarked on more strikes than any other profession in the country. Ironically they should even be the last to strike given the humanitarian nature of their job&ought to borrow a leaf from other health professions in this regard .I doubt if the so called hippocratic oath means anything. I really blame successive government administrations for treating them with kid gloves and pandering to their ever whimsical and capricious demands. nonsense.

kenlash1: for example if A university has BN headed by engineering professors for A long time nd now a biochemistry professor comes up to say I want to head cos its My right as well (cos he is qualified) is now a bad TN? Mind you doctors don't own d hospitals, its d ryt of every health practitioner with necessary qualification nd yrs of experience

doctors do not own the hospitals yes i agree. but know that patients come to see doctors. doctors plan patients management ,admit patients and discharge as well. if other health professionals want to head hospitals let them start consulting. if u want administrators let administrators take over all other sectors viz engineering, pharmaceutical industries,education, power, bank etc.

ugochi86: I see this as a good avenue for all non-doctors in hospitals to vent.its understandably frustrating for them beause most of them had d aspiration of becoming doctors but jamb and probably some other factors stood in their way.they should leave them(doctors) alone.they shsould have burnt the midnight candle when they still had d chance but it's never too late to purchase jamb form as someone earlier suggested.

Foolish statement!

on a good day:
the problem with doctors is greed....imagin a doctor claiming to know drugs more than a pharmacist...very funny

u got it wrong. doctors are not greedy. it is pharmacists that are. imagine pharmacists treating patients in their stores thus acting as doctors. pharmacists know both relevant and irrelevants drugs. however doctors know relevant drugs to patients care than pharmacists.

timowale:
On point,doctors head the medical team while nurses on the other hand head the nursing team.Each of the various subunits forming the health institution has a unit head
furthermore,your submission that patients belong to doctors is untrue
Every one that visit hospital is aware nurses spend the greater number of hours with the patients than all other health professionals.
Finally,the position of hospital heads ought not be the exclusive preserve of only doctors cos the requisite skills for administering institution as such is an all encompassing one starting administrative public relation ,technically .....nurses and other health practtionaltoo have the aforestated requirements

medical team
The group of physicians and health
care workers who are responsible for
a Pt's medical needs
McGraw-Hill Concise Dictionary of
Modern Medicine. © 2002 by The
McGraw-Hill Companies,
from the definition who should head medical team?

@timowale.i can feel your pain.

ziga:

Yep, I bet you a lot of departments are headed by non-physicians. Like dietary department, house keeping, Pharmacy, Engineering etc.

But not Endocrinology, Surgery, Medicine or CMD.

You did no say head, you said manage. And again I tell you even the department of obs/gyn has been managed by a non-physician. And what we are arguing here I about hospital management. For the man who referred to gray's anamtomy as a source of information, in as much as that is infinitely unpardonable referring to a movie in this quarter, you may remember that the hospital manager was not even a physician (chief surgeon was not the highest authority in that hospital)

What theses people don't understand is that these drs will NEVER cede the position of command to anyone NEVER till christ comes again so its a lost battle. They rather quit completely from the hospital setting than answer to a non dr.
That being said diff units have diff heads, a teaching hospital has a director of administration directly under the command answerable only to the cmd. Y other health workers want this post is beyond me just do ur job and forget this cmd thing cos it can NEVER happen.

timowale:
On point,doctors head the medical team while nurses on the other hand head the nursing team.Each of the various subunits forming the health institution has a unit head
furthermore,your submission that patients belong to doctors is untrue
Every one that visit hospital is aware nurses spend the greater number of hours with the patients than all other health professionals.
Finally,the position of hospital heads ought not be the exclusive preserve of only doctors cos the requisite skills for administering institution as such is an all encompassing one starting administrative public relation ,technically .....nurses and other health practtionaltoo have the aforestated requirements

Bless you!

hairyman:

You did no say head, you said manage. And again I tell you even the department of obs/gyn has been managed by a non-physician. And what we are arguing here I about hospital management. For the man who referred to gray's anamtomy as a source of information, in as much as that is infinitely unpardonable referring to a movie in this quarter, you may remember that the hospital manager was not even a physician (chief surgeon was not the highest authority in that hospital)

I truely wonder why one should be using a movie as a basis of his points. It's like saying that, at every hour, american security is on the chase of a terrorist about to let one bomb go off on the american soil as in season 24.
And thanks for pointing out to those who know nothing about the medical hierarchy. In that movie, a surgeon was and that contradicts their basis.

Laalamed:
doctors do not own the hospitals yes i agree. but know that patients come to see doctors. doctors plan patients management ,admit patients and discharge as well. if other health professionals want to head hospitals let them start consulting. if u want administrators let administrators take over all other sectors viz engineering, pharmaceutical industries,education, power, bank etc.

Google up Nurse practitional and stop shouting jor!

Ochek:

Google up Nurse practitional and stop shouting jor!

A nurse practitioner (NP) is a nurse
with a graduate degree in advanced
practice nursing.
See also: Types of health care
providers
Information
The NP is allowed to provide a broad
range of health care services, which
may include:
Taking the patient's history,
performing a physical exam, and
ordering laboratory tests and
procedures
Diagnosing, treating, and managing
diseases
Writing prescriptions and
coordinating referrals
Providing handouts on disease
prevention and healthy lifestyles
Performing certain procedures,
such as a bone marrow biopsy or
lumbar puncture
Nurse practitioners work in a variety of
settings, including:
Cardiology
Emergency
Family practice
Geriatrics
Neonatology
Nephrology
Oncology
Pediatrics
Primary care
School health
Women's health
Some nurse practitioners work in
clinics without doctor supervision.
Others work together with doctors as
a joint health care team. Their scope
of practice and authority depends on
state laws. For example, some states
allow nurse practitioners to write
prescriptions, while other states do
not.
Like many other professions, nurse
practitioners are regulated at two
different levels. They are licensed
through a process that takes place at
the state level under state laws. They
are certified through national
organizations, with consistent
professional practice standards across
all states.
LICENSURE
The laws on NP licensure vary greatly
from state to state. Today, more states
are requiring NPs to have a master's
degree and national certification.
In some states, NP practice is
completely independent. Other states
require that NPs work with an MD for
prescriptive practice privileges or to
get licensed. A few states still do not
have specific nurse practitioner
licenses or recognize practice by NPs.
CERTIFICATION
National certification is offered
through various nursing organizations
(such as the American Nurses'
Association, Pediatric Nursing
Certification Board, and others). Most
of these organizations require that
NPs complete an approved master's-
level NP program before taking the
certification exam. The exams tend to
be offered in specialty areas, such as:
Acute care
Adult nursing
Family nursing
Geriatrics
Pediatrics
Psychiatry
Women's health care
To be recertified, NPs need to show
proof of continuing education. Only
certified nurse practitioners may use a
"C" either in front of or behind their
other credentials (e.g., Certified
Pediatric Nurse Practitioner, FNP-C,
Certified Family Nurse Practitioner).
Some nurse practitioners may use the
credential ARNP, which means
advanced registered nurse practioner.
This is a broader category that
includes clinical nurse specialists,
certified nurse midwives, and nurse
anesthetists.
Update Date: 8/1/2012
Updated by: Jennifer K. Mannheim,
ARNP, Medical Staff, Department of
Psychiatry and Behavioral Health,
Seattle Children's Hospital. Also
reviewed by David Zieve, MD, MHA,
Medical Director, A.D.A.M. Health
Solutions, Ebix, Inc.
Browse the Encyclopedia

ziga: At least if you never travel overseas... Dem dey show Scrubs, House, Gray's anatomy on top DSTV.

Go watch am to see whether dem CMO na Doctor or Babalawo.

Shior. Kelebe.

Ochek:

I truely wonder why one should be using a movie as a basis of his points. It's like saying that, at every hour, american security is on the chase of a terrorist about to let one bomb go off on the american soil as in season 24.
And thanks for pointing out to those who know nothing about the medical hierarchy. In that movie, a surgeon was and that contradicts their basis.

If una no fit read, I quote am again for those people wey never travel abroad wey dey claim say CMD's for yankee no be Doctor.

Unlike our Nollywood, they try to portray some form of reality. The story might not be true, but they try to make all else as believable as possible.

Naija is just so ignorant!!!

Laalamed:
A nurse practitioner (NP) is a nurse
with a graduate degree in advanced
practice nursing.
See also: Types of health care
providers
Information
The NP is allowed to provide a broad
range of health care services, which
may include:
Taking the patient's history,
performing a physical exam, and
ordering laboratory tests and
procedures
Diagnosing, treating, and managing
diseases
Writing prescriptions and
coordinating referrals
Providing handouts on disease
prevention and healthy lifestyles
Performing certain procedures,
such as a bone marrow biopsy or
lumbar puncture
Nurse practitioners work in a variety of
settings, including:
Cardiology
Emergency
Family practice
Geriatrics
Neonatology
Nephrology
Oncology
Pediatrics
Primary care
School health
Women's health
Some nurse practitioners work in
clinics without doctor supervision.
Others work together with doctors as
a joint health care team. Their scope
of practice and authority depends on
state laws. For example, some states
allow nurse practitioners to write
prescriptions, while other states do
not.
Like many other professions, nurse
practitioners are regulated at two
different levels. They are licensed
through a process that takes place at
the state level under state laws. They
are certified through national
organizations, with consistent
professional practice standards across
all states.
LICENSURE
The laws on NP licensure vary greatly
from state to state. Today, more states
are requiring NPs to have a master's
degree and national certification.
In some states, NP practice is
completely independent. Other states
require that NPs work with an MD for
prescriptive practice privileges or to
get licensed. A few states still do not
have specific nurse practitioner
licenses or recognize practice by NPs.
CERTIFICATION
National certification is offered
through various nursing organizations
(such as the American Nurses'
Association, Pediatric Nursing
Certification Board, and others). Most
of these organizations require that
NPs complete an approved master's-
level NP program before taking the
certification exam. The exams tend to
be offered in specialty areas, such as:
Acute care
Adult nursing
Family nursing
Geriatrics
Pediatrics
Psychiatry
Women's health care
To be recertified, NPs need to show
proof of continuing education. Only
certified nurse practitioners may use a
"C" either in front of or behind their
other credentials (e.g., Certified
Pediatric Nurse Practitioner, FNP-C,
Certified Family Nurse Practitioner).
Some nurse practitioners may use the
credential ARNP, which means
advanced registered nurse practioner.
This is a broader category that
includes clinical nurse specialists,
certified nurse midwives, and nurse
anesthetists.
Update Date: 8/1/2012
Updated by: Jennifer K. Mannheim,
ARNP, Medical Staff, Department of
Psychiatry and Behavioral Health,
Seattle Children's Hospital. Also
reviewed by David Zieve, MD, MHA,
Medical Director, A.D.A.M. Health
Solutions, Ebix, Inc.
Browse the Encyclopedia

For ur info nursing practioners are created to solve problems of doctors shortage. They are not replacing doctors. when there are specialist doctors NP work to assist doctors. infact np job is designed to be autonomous. np practice indepedently where there is no doctor.

ziga:



If una no fit read, I quote am again for those people wey never travel abroad wey dey claim say CMD's for yankee no be Doctor.

Unlike our Nollywood, they try to portray some form of reality. The story might not be true, but they try to make all else as believable as possible.

Naija is just so ignorant!!!

Who ignorant pass you?
According to ur post : Some nurse practitioners work in clinics without doctor supervision.
Others work together with doctors as
a joint health care team.
What else are you trying to prove? Try reason well abeg.

Laalamed:
For ur info nursing practioners are created to solve problems of doctors shortage. They are not replacing doctors. when there are specialist doctors NP work to assist doctors. infact np job is designed to be autonomous.

There you go again. Autonomous!

If Doctors, Nurses, Pharmacists, Lab scientists, Dentists have additional degrees in hospital management, the most qualified professional for the position of CMD will be the Doctor.

He is the head and coordinator of the health team. And since when did people require degrees in administration to be managers/heads?

What kind of mentality is that? Which other industry requires administration degree for you to be head?

Our C-in-C get administrator degree? Or your bank manager or MTN chief?

Leadership has nothing to do with having a degree in administration, however, the position of a doctor which already involves every aspect of a patient's care gives the broadest view and understanding of a patient's condition.

Therefore Doctors are heads of their medical units in some way or another.

Granted, there are times when organizations will have a non-medical administrator as an adjunct. And they work with the MD.

I wonder whats with Nigeria and politicization of everything.

Ochek:

Who ignorant pass you?
According to ur post : Some nurse practitioners work in clinics without doctor supervision.
Others work together with doctors as
a joint health care team.
What else are you trying to prove? Try reason well abeg.

You don smoke igbo abi? or you are just demented?

ziga:

You don smoke igbo abi? or you are just demented?

Hahahaha! Joker!! Na the one wey you puff remain for me o!

Dr. James Mandell, CEO Sandra
Fenwick, President & COO
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James Mandell, MD
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Sandra Fenwick
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Gary R. Fleisher, MD
Physician-in-Chief, Pediatrician in
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Surgeon-in-Chief
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and Chief Nursing Officer (CNO)
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Doug Vanderslice
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Jane Venti
Executive Director, Satellite
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Carol Weinrib, PhD
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5sigma: The doctor is the leader of the health team. No matter how long an air hostess has been flying, she cannot become the pilot. The other health workers should go and write JAMB, obtain admission to study medicine and then become suitable candidates. Thing is,no matter how long the wind blows the mountain can never bow.enuf said!

From your post I can see that you are very shallow-minded.

Laalamed: Dr. James Mandell, CEO Sandra
Fenwick, President & COO
Leadership
James Mandell, MD
Chief Executive Officer
Sandra Fenwick
President and Chief Operating Officer
Gary R. Fleisher, MD
Physician-in-Chief, Pediatrician in
Chief, Chair of Department of
Medicine
James Kasser, MD
Surgeon-in-Chief
Michael J. Anderegg
Executive Director, Heart Center
Dick Argys
Senior Vice President and Chief
Administrative Officer
Julee Bolg
Executive Director, Satellite Clinical
Operations
Margaret Coughlin
Senior Vice President and Chief
Marketing and Communications
Officer
Naomi Fried, PhD
Chief Innovation Officer
Michael Gillespie
Vice President of Clinical Services
Josh Greenberg
Vice President, Government Relations
Kathy Jenkins, MD
Senior Vice President, Chief Safety and
Quality Officer
Daniel Nigrin, MD, MS
Senior Vice President and Chief
Information Officer
Stuart Novick, Esq.
Senior Vice President and General
Counsel
Phil Rotner
Chief Investment Officer
Eileen Sporing, MSN, RN, NEA-BC,
FAAN
Senior Vice President, Patient Care
Operations
and Chief Nursing Officer (CNO)
Inez Stewart
Vice President, Human Resources
Lynn Susman
President, Children's Hospital Trust
Henry Tomasuolo
Vice President of Support Services
Doug Vanderslice
Chief Financial Officer (CFO)
Jane Venti
Executive Director, Satellite
Administrative Operations
Wendy Warring, JD
Senior Vice President, Network
Development and Strategic
Partnerships
Carol Weinrib, PhD
Acting Vice President, Research
Administration
Charles Weinstein, Esq.
Vice President, Real Estate Planning
and Development
Department and division chiefs
Department of Anesthesiology
Paul R. Hickey, MD , Anesthesiologist-
in-Chief
Division of Cardiac Anesthesia
James A. DiNardo, MD
Division of Critical Care Medicine
Jeffrey P. Burns, MD
Division of Pain Management
Charles B. Berde, MD, PhD
Division of Perioperative
Anesthesia
Lynne R. Ferrari, MD
Department of Cardiac Surgery
Pedro del Nido, MD
Department of Cardiology
James Lock, MD , Cardiologist-in-
Chief
Department of Dentistry
Man Wai Ng, DDS, MPH
Department of Laboratory Medicine
Orah Platt, MD
Department of Medicine
Gary Fleisher, MD , Physician-in-Chief
Frederick Lovejoy, Jr. MD , Associate
Physician-in-Chief
Division of Adolescent and Young
Adult Medicine
S. Jean Emans, MD
Division of Clinical Pediatric
Oncology
Lisa R. Diller, MD
Division of Developmental
Medicine
Leonard A. Rappaport, MD, MS
Division of Emergency Medicine
Richard G. Bachur, MD
Division of Endocrinology
Joseph A. Majzoub, MD
Division of Gastroenterology/
Nutrition
Wayne I. Lencer, MD
Clinical Research Center
Stavroula Osganian, MD, ScD,
MPH
Ellis Neufeld, MD, PhD
Division of General Pediatrics
Mark A. Schuster, MD, PhD
Division of Genetics
Christopher A. Walsh, MD, PhD
Division of Hematology/Oncology
David A. Williams, MD
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Surgery
Bonnie L. Padwa, DMD, MD
Department of Psychiatry
David R. DeMaso, MD
Division of Psychology
Eugene J. D'Angelo, PhD
Department of Radiology
Richard L. Robertson, Jr., MD
Division of Computed
Tomography
Michael J. Callahan, MD
Division of Diagnostic Radiology
Kirsten Ecklund, MD
Division of Interventional
Radiology
Darren B. Orbach, MD, PhD
Division of Magnetic Resonance
Imaging
Caroline D. Robson, MB, ChB
Division of Neuroradiology
Caroline D. Robson, MB, ChB
Division of Nuclear Medicine/PET
Stephan D. Voss, MD, PhD
Laura A. Drubach, MD
Division of Ultrasound
Carol E. Barnewolt, MD
Department of Surgery
Robert C. Shamberger, MD
Division of Gynecology
Marc R. Laufer, MD
Department of Urology
David A. Diamond, MD
Genomics
Louis Kunkel, PhD
Informatics
Isaac Kohane, MD, PhD
Neuroscience
Clifford Woolf, PhD
Stem Cell/Developmental Biology
Leonard Zon, MD
Vascular Biology
Marsha A. Moses, PhD
www.childrenshospital.org/about/Site1394/mainpageS1394P4.html

BOSTON Children Hospital

Guddy:

From your post I can see that you are very shallow-minded.

hey nurse, u can insult as u wnt but u r nt in any way beta thn hm, u r ol d same.....i suggest u luk fr oda means of pourin out ur frustration.

dnt spoil dis thread wt ur stupidity..

Having read some funny comments here....Am not surprised why the the health sector is thriving compared to other sectors. Not only in Nigeria, even in developed countries. Studying management does not make you a good manager. Otherwise all the failed educational, financial, enterprise sectors etc. should all be thriving under the leadership of people who study management. Recession in europe and bank failures are all as a result of mismanagement practiced by the so called management professional most of them with all the higher management quaifications you can think of..including "chattered managers". Doctors practice evidence based medicine, where treatment is given based on established evidences. And they are subjected to clinical debates, protocols and most importantly clinical reviews for criticism of why? how? when? a method or approach was carried out. Meaning there is a body that oversees processes,continous and ongoing research with literature reviews. Comparing this with other sectors where there is abosolutely no governing body conducting research, literature reviews and no protocols based on management. Decision is taken based on what the manager percieves as best approach. More of instinct, until managers develop habit of doing research and literature reviews on management approaches and not hypothesis which I will term "Evidence based management" Then they will be in better position like their medical counterparts. In summary, management qualification does not define a good manager but increases the chances of an individual becoming one. Most successful business men never had management degrees. Doctors have better chances of successfully running hospitals based on their training coupled with method and approach of providing holistic care to patients.