Here is something to think about, albeit a bit controversial.

Why do lower-class blue-collar workers insist on ensuring that their children go to tertiary institutions in Nigeria?
There are many cases I've seen of blue-collar workers, who can ill-afford it, bust their backs ensuring that their children all go to universities. It's noble, but is it really practical?

Na wa o AJ. I dey come. Sleep dey catch me small small now.

I would say the question is why not? Nothing wrong with parents wanting a better life for their kids. Even if you feel it's worthless in Nigeria due to lack of jobs, you never know, just one of those kids could be blessed and elevate the rest of the family. Also the education expands their horizon. It's a good move IMO.

ileobatojo: I would say the question is why not? Nothing wrong with parents wanting a better life for their kids. Even if you feel it's worthless in Nigeria due to lack of jobs, you never know, just one of those kids could be blessed and elevate the rest of the family. Also the education expands their horizon. It's a good move IMO.

Hmm.
What's wrong with a child of a blue-collar worker learning a trade, and earning money from an early age?
Or, in the converse, what is right about a blue-collar worker begging, borrowing, and stealing, to ensure their four or five children all attend one higher institution or the other?

Are they playing a lottery with the children? The irony is that, a lot of these children also have to bribe or cheat their way to those higher institutions like a lot of other children. And most of them will probably either not do particularly well at school, and may end up sitting at home unemployed. What happens then?

We should move from the 'you never know' mindset, and try to be a bit more pragmatic in the way we live life in Nigeria, IMO.

AjanleKoko:

We should move from the 'you never know' mindset, and try to be a bit more pragmatic in the way we live life in Nigeria, IMO.

What about children of non blue collar workers? Do you know with them? What percentage get jobs? Why should they bother going to the university either? If you're going to talk pragmatism, it should be across the board.

Apart from stealing, I see no reason to stop someone from borrowing or begging to get his child a higher education.

There is nothing wrong with learning a trade if that's the level you want to remain in life. If you want to go further, there's nothing wrong in your parents assisting you to do that.

I think aj may be pointing out that college education is no longer the magic bullet it once was. Funding tertiary education will require a lot more sacrifice from a blue collar worker than a white collar worker.

Add the for want of a better word 'rough finish' of those who make it through. Most compannies won't look at kids they have to train in grooming etc

ileobatojo:

What about children of non blue collar workers? Do you know with them? What percentage get jobs? Why should they bother going to the university either? If you're going to talk pragmatism, it should be across the board.

Apart from stealing, I see no reason to stop someone from borrowing or begging to get his child a higher education.

There is nothing wrong with learning a trade if that's the level you want to remain in life. If you want to go further, there's nothing wrong in your parents assisting you to do that.

Hmm again.
You make an interesting point there. I'll also include white-collar workers who can't afford it.
So it's across the board. If you are a white-collar graduate whose salary is not more than the monthly earnings of a danfo driver or vulcanizer, you should be pragmatic as well.

What do you think about such children starting out by learning a trade and/or working to support themselves at the start, and then choosing to further their education later if they so desire.

I know a lot of families where the mother is the breadwinner, and the father is either sick, unemployed, or has passed on. In my view, education beyond secondary school for such children is a luxury, and learning a trade or working to to support the rest of the family in the interim should be the priority for the children.

AjanleKoko:

Hmm again.
You make an interesting point there. I'll also include white-collar workers who can't afford it.
So it's across the board. If you are a white-collar graduate whose salary is not more than the monthly earnings of a danfo driver or vulcanizer, you should be pragmatic as well.

How about those who can afford it? If your point is that university education is unlikely to be beneficial in the long run (the primary reason why a parent would struggle to get their child through the university), why should anyone waste their money (outside of those that will surely get jobs due to connections). Even if parents can afford it, shouldn't they instead use the money to teach the child a trade and set them up in that business?

What do you think about such children starting out by learning a trade and/or working to support themselves at the start, and then choosing to further their education later if they so desire.

I know a lot of families where the mother is the breadwinner, and the father is either sick, unemployed, or has passed on. In my view, education beyond secondary school for such children is a luxury, and learning a trade or working to to support the rest of the family in the interim should be the priority for the children.

If that's what they choose, then fine. If they choose to struggle for their child, that's fine by me too. They should be the one making their choice, it shouldn't be dictated to them. If some people don't want to borrow them money to help their children, they don't have to, that's their choice too. However, I personally couldn't imagine telling someone who comes to borrow money for their child's genuine educational needs that they should withdraw the child from school so he can work and make money first to be able to afford it.

ileobatojo:

How about those who can afford it? If your point is that university education is unlikely to be beneficial in the long run (the primary reason why a parent would struggle to get their child through the university), why should anyone waste their money (outside of those that will surely get jobs due to connections). Even if parents can afford it, shouldn't they instead use the money to teach the child a trade and set them up in that business?

My point is not about whether university education is beneficial or not.
That's a subjective debate. I am talking about the practicality of trying to send your children to a tertiary institution all by yourself when you can clearly not afford it.

And nobody is dictating anything to anybody. If such a person came to you for advice, what would you tell them? It's not enough to say 'Sure it is a good choice.' and the person now says 'Oya, you need to support that my decision with your cash.' What would you do? It's not enough to say 'it's their decision'. What if you were the one that had to pay for it?

I was in a situation like that recently. The person was a widow with three children, she was working as a house maid.
My frank advice to the person was to focus on the child that showed the most significant academic promise. For the others, I recommended that they go to trade schools or even get a job, and start supporting their sibling who would school full-time. Needless to say the advice did not go down well with her, and she left discouraged. It was clearly obvious that what she was seeking was financial support, which I couldn't provide as I also have family members I am supporting.

oyb: I think aj may be pointing out that college education is no longer the magic bullet it once was. Funding tertiary education will require a lot more sacrifice from a blue collar worker than a white collar worker.

Add the for want of a better word 'rough finish' of those who make it through. Most compannies won't look at kids they have to train in grooming etc

I'm not knocking college education. Though I am trying to highlight the fact that the blue-collar worker may not be informed enough to understand the bolded in your post. It may well be a perceived 'investment', which may or may not work out.

Kind of like the 'Sponsoring relatives to study abroad' thread I put up a while back. The responses I got were quite similar to what ileobatojo has posited here. But the truth is, the world has moved beyond the 'Why not if not?' Nigerian way of looking at everything. Cause and effect is very real nowadays. People need to properly consider the financial impact of decisions they make, as opposed to the emotional side.

The scriture says that a drowning man clutches on to straws
In order words, when you cant see any hope around you, you latch on to almost anything

It would therefore make sense in Nigeria to hold to Faith in the MOG
and to education

Perhaps, just perhaps, ......one might work

esere826: The scriture says that a drowning man clutches on to straws
In order words, when you cant see any hope around you, you latch on to almost anything

It would therefore make sense in Nigeria to hold to Faith in the MOG
and to education

Perhaps, just perhaps, ......one might work

Imagine this career track for a son of an electrician:

-Secondary education, science.
-technical college, electrical technology. Trade test certificate.
-Works for a while as an electrical technician/craftsman.
-goes back to school, either full-time or part-time, for OND-HND or Bsc electrical engineering.
-gets a job as an electrical engineer.

or this one for the same person.

-secondary school education, science.
-3,4, or 5 UME or PCE attempts, all done while sitting at home doing nothing.
-eventually gets into OFFA POLY to study LIBRARY SCIENCE.
-Back home after 4 or 5 years with HND LIBRARY SCIENCE. Now looking for a job, any job.

From what I have personally seen, the second scenario is the one that plays out too often for these people.
You might say, haba, this is drastic. But I don't see too many children of blue-collar or lower-class workers, or poor people in general getting admission to study medicine, law, or engineering. We can debate the reasons why this happens, from the-country-is-not-good to plain old bad luck with JAMB and WAEC. But the fact is that it happens.

Everybody needs to think a little bit more about the things that will likely bring results, and stop playing lottery.

I kinda understand it comes from an innate parental impulse to what your kids to better than you.Though i kinda see the point being raised by the OP.
Sorry but let me throw another curveball,what of white collar workers who clearly cannot afford some high fee paying schools (primary or secondary) but still insist on sacricing for their kids to attend those school.E.g A family income of 1.2M a yr spending 700-800 thousand on schl fees yearly?Am asking cos there is a current dispute in my family where someone advised another"You cant keep doing this(running around at the beggining of every term cos its clear your income cant afford this school.Cant you withdraw and take them to a cheaper school?".They are currently not on speaking terms.

damiso: I kinda understand it comes from an innate parental impulse to what your kids to better than you.Though i kinda see the point being raised by the OP.
Sorry but let me throw another curveball,what of white collar workers who clearly cannot afford some high fee paying schools (primary or secondary) but still insist on sacricing for their kids to attend those school.E.g A family income of 1.2M a yr spending 700-800 thousand on schl fees yearly?Am asking cos there is a current dispute in my family where someone advised another"You cant keep doing this(running around at the beggining of every term cos its clear your income cant afford this school.Cant you withdraw and take them to a cheaper school?".They are currently not on speaking terms.

Wow.
Spending 75% of their annual income on school fees?

Anyway that's another dimension of the same thing. I chose to focus on blue-collar workers. They didn't go to university anyway, so I am wondering at the fixation. The objective should be for a parent to ensure the child is able to stand on their own feet, not necessarily to fulfill the desires of the parent.

AjanleKoko:

Imagine this career track for a son of an electrician:

-Secondary education, science.
-technical college, electrical technology. Trade test certificate.
-Works for a while as an electrical technician/craftsman.
-goes back to school, either full-time or part-time, for OND-HND or Bsc electrical engineering.
-gets a job as an electrical engineer.

or this one for the same person.

-secondary school education, science.
-3,4, or 5 UME or PCE attempts, all done while sitting at home doing nothing.
-eventually gets into OFFA POLY to study LIBRARY SCIENCE.
-Back home after 4 or 5 years with HND LIBRARY SCIENCE. Now looking for a job, any job.

From what I have personally seen, the second scenario is the one that plays out too often for these people.
You might say, haba, this is drastic. But I don't see too many children of blue-collar or lower-class workers, or poor people in general getting admission to study medicine, law, or engineering. We can debate the reasons why this happens, from the-country-is-not-good to plain old bad luck with JAMB and WAEC. But the fact is that it happens.

Everybody needs to think a little bit more about the things that will likely bring results, and stop playing lottery.

While the highlighted would be ideal for the son of an electrian, how practical is it in Nigeria?

E.g. My son takes the route as highlighted and get a job as an electrical technician with a company like Cadbury, because he does not have a 'degree' he is paid slighty above minimum wage and has no hope of a promotion because he is hired as a contractor. Now, he finally manages to scrape and save and bags the much coveted university degree at the ripe 'old age' of 30. Only employers now want graduates no older than 27

My mum used to say whether "certificate is useless or not, just make sure you get it".
Those parents havee their reasons, whether they break their backs or not, it is not in your place to judge.
Am sure you had a University education, so let others have a shot at it too.

naijababe:

While the highlighted would be ideal for the son of an electrian, how practical is it in Nigeria?

E.g. My son takes the route as highlighted and get a job as an electrical technician with a company like Cadbury, because he does not have a 'degree' he is paid slighty above minimum wage and has no hope of a promotion because he is hired as a contractor. Now, he finally manages to scrape and save and bags the much coveted university degree at the ripe 'old age' of 30. Only employers now want graduates no older than 27

It's a risk/chance that exists. But I think it is probably better than option 2.
I know how much I have paid to various skilled technicians this year on personal projects.

Option 2 is where a lot of people I know sit. They have degrees or some certificates of sorts, they don't have the network to leverage to find a job, and they are sitting at home doing nothing.

eagle,eye:
My mum used to say whether "certificate is useless or not, just make sure you get it".
Those parents havee their reasons, whether they break their backs or not, it is not in your place to judge.
Am sure you had a University education, so let others have a shot at it too.

*Sigh* nobody is judging anybody.
But if you are such a parent, make sure you also break your backs to ensure your child gets a job.

Your mum being your mum doesn't mean that she can't be wrong.

AjanleKoko:

*Sigh* nobody is judging anybody.
But if you are such a parent, make sure you also break your backs to ensure your child gets a job.

Your mum being your mum doesn't mean that she can't be wrong.

Ok ohh Aj.
But I once wrote somewhere that a professor of mine said "If you truely passed through the four walls of a University and the University also passed through you, then you have no reeason to go hungry".
My mum could be wrong, you can equally be wrong.

eagle,eye:

Ok ohh Aj.
But I once wrote somewhere that a professor of mine said "If you truely passed through the four walls of a University and the University also passed through you, then you have no reeason to go hungry".
My mum could be wrong, you can equally be wrong.

Well, the difference is, compared to your mum and your professor, I am not postulating anything.
I only cite real-life experiences, people who are in these situations that I know. Many of them seek advice from me, as well as financial support.

By the way, I know a lot of hungry professors, and I also know a lot of wealthy artisans

eagle,eye:
My mum used to say whether "certificate is useless or not, just make sure you get it".
Those parents havee their reasons, whether they break their backs or not, it is not in your place to judge.
Am sure you had a University education, so let others have a shot at it too.

the world keeps changing, and experience becomes obsolete - alot of our parents generation believe in civil service , most of us don't. my folks want my brother to go to the uk for a masters. i am against it.In light of the current situation, i consider a masters in the uk to be a waste of money. it may have been a sure banker before, but that time os past. my folks do not agree , because it worked out for others' kids in the past.


your statement 'make sure you get it' represent the problem highlighted - certification for its sake.
when i was reading novels in camp, there were corpers asking - the book you read for school no do?

naijababe:

While the highlighted would be ideal for the son of an electrian, how practical is it in Nigeria?

E.g. My son takes the route as highlighted and get a job as an electrical technician with a company like Cadbury, because he does not have a 'degree' he is paid slighty above minimum wage and has no hope of a promotion because he is hired as a contractor. Now, he finally manages to scrape and save and bags the much coveted university degree at the ripe 'old age' of 30. Only employers now want graduates no older than 27

there's a technician in my coy about to be promoted on the basis of his degree. so i'd say it can work out. you are already in the system, you already have contacts, so all that is left is for you to get the papers and move up.

AjanleKoko:


I was in a situation like that recently. The person was a widow with three children, she was working as a house maid.
My frank advice to the person was to focus on the child that showed the most significant academic promise. For the others, I recommended that they go to trade schools or even get a job, and start supporting their sibling who would school full-time. Needless to say the advice did not go down well with her, and she left discouraged.

I already inferred this from your previous post and that's exactly what I responded to in my last post.

damiso: I kinda understand it comes from an innate parental impulse to what your kids to better than you.Though i kinda see the point being raised by the OP.
Sorry but let me throw another curveball,what of white collar workers who clearly cannot afford some high fee paying schools (primary or secondary) but still insist on sacricing for their kids to attend those school.E.g A family income of 1.2M a yr spending 700-800 thousand on schl fees yearly?Am asking cos there is a current dispute in my family where someone advised another"You cant keep doing this(running around at the beggining of every term cos its clear your income cant afford this school.Cant you withdraw and take them to a cheaper school?".They are currently not on speaking terms.

This happened in my family too and that's clearly a waste. I wouldn't support that.

AjanleKoko:

From what I have personally seen, the second scenario is the one that plays out too often for these people.
You might say, haba, this is drastic. But I don't see too many children of blue-collar or lower-class workers, or poor people in general getting admission to study medicine, law, or engineering. We can debate the reasons why this happens, from the-country-is-not-good to plain old bad luck with JAMB and WAEC. But the fact is that it happens.

Now, this is a debate I can get behind, people doing useless courses in university and how to deal with that. But to try to kill their dreams of having their children live a better life than they, I can't get behind that.

The Nigerian situation defies all manner of logic and postulations. Just throw your hat in the ring any which way and hope to come out a winner.

@ the post about a family insisting on expensive private schools instead of 'cheaper' alternatives, it begs the question: how do you measure worth? Its not so much the better curriculum these kids will be exposed to but the connections they will have a chance at forging with rich(presumably) peers. And we all know that counts for a whole lot these days.

BoboYekini: @ the post about a family insisting on expensive private schools instead of 'cheaper' alternatives, it begs the question: how do you measure worth? Its not so much the better curriculum these kids will be exposed to but the connections they will have a chance at forging with rich(presumably) peers. And we all know that counts for a whole lot these days.

One can't help but wonder the following:

- Is this a strictly Nigerian way of looking at things?
- Does it actually work?

BoboYekini: The Nigerian situation defies all manner of logic and postulations. Just throw your hat in the ring any which way and hope to come out a winner.

To the first part I definitely agree.

AjanleKoko:

One can't help but wonder the following:

- Is this a strictly Nigerian way of looking at things?
- Does it actually work?

no

i would say from what i have seen, that it works the other way - kids get unrealistic aspirations. the kids in those expensive schools will plan on schooling in uk etal. their folks probably have the money for it. the struggling classmate gets the same idea , even though there are no funds for this. i don't even want to mention what may happen next

as to networking - a poor kid among rich kids simply becomes the omega in the pack, unless he has something [brilliance/sports skills] that can make him stand out.

*sighs deeply*

Both sides of the argument make fine points
This is one of those times I'd rather sit on the fence

there are so many factors to be considered
With the relatively cheap cost of schooling in Nigeria,
I'd rather that parents scrape to send their kids to uni

Looking at things from a crime perspective in Nigeria and throwing away morals
an educated jobless youth could fit into a white collar crime with little or no blood on their hands
an uneducated and jobless youth on the other hand could more easilly fit into cold blooded highway robbery

*Back to sitting on the fence I go*

oyb:


the world keeps changing, and experience becomes obsolete - alot of our parents generation believe in civil service , most of us don't. my folks want my brother to go to the uk for a masters. i am against it.In light of the current situation, i consider a masters in the uk to be a waste of money. it may have been a sure banker before, but that time os past. my folks do not agree , because it worked out for others' kids in the past.


your statement 'make sure you get it' represent the problem highlighted - certification for its sake.
when i was reading novels in camp, there were corpers asking - the book you read for school no do?




there's a technician in my coy about to be promoted on the basis of his degree. so i'd say it can work out. you are already in the system, you already have contacts, so all that is left is for you to get the papers and move up.

I am sure even AJ will allude to the this scenario being the exception rather than the rule.


My own take on the subject, in a place like Nigeria, empowerment is still very much in dearth. If I am truly willing to work and study part-time, can you tell me what kind of job that will allow me to do that?

naijababe:

I am sure even AJ will allude to the this scenario being the exception rather than the rule.


My own take on the subject, in a place like Nigeria, empowerment is still very much in dearth. If I am truly willing to work and study part-time, can you tell me what kind of job that will allow me to do that?

Well, we have a lot of cleaners, security guards, office assistants in my company that all go to school part time.
Some attend the NOUN.

There is this chap that was an office assistant when I was working in another company in 2001, and he was doing his OND at the time in Yaba Tech. He has since been to get his HND in Insurance, and now works in an insurance company, a multinational one

In fact a number of us who knew him back then are his clients today.

I wonder why we always think a success story must be an exception in Nigeria.

AjanleKoko:

Well, we have a lot of cleaners, security guards, office assistants in my company that all go to school part time.
Some attend the NOUN.

There is this chap that was an office assistant when I was working in another company in 2001, and he was doing his OND at the time in Yaba Tech. He has since been to get his HND in Insurance, and now works in an insurance company, a multinational one

In fact a number of us who knew him back then are his clients today.

I wonder why we always think a success story must be an exception in Nigeria.

the alfa that was teaching us arabic when we were in secondary school is now a lawyer. i remember this because my mum contributed some money towards his schooling

AjanleKoko:

Well, we have a lot of cleaners, security guards, office assistants in my company that all go to school part time.
Some attend the NOUN.

There is this chap that was an office assistant when I was working in another company in 2001, and he was doing his OND at the time in Yaba Tech. He has since been to get his HND in Insurance, and now works in an insurance company, a multinational one

In fact a number of us who knew him back then are his clients today.

I wonder why we always think a success story must be an exception in Nigeria.

I can only speak from my own experience. If you only ever see success stories, I happen to see many not so unsuccessful stories and it is not for lack of trying.

Let's just say I am not as quick to dismiss/make assumptions about other people. I see and interact with a lot of people that are considered 'blue collar'