billagreen:

first you are not supposed to be here, and now going by the advises you've read before your conclusion let me tell you what real Islam is all about, you don't give money or alms for any reason other that Allah / God sake alone.. . You can give to who so ever that asks but only give for the sake of God, not because you are finding luck.

Excellent point,
If one gives in the belief that the pagan God has any power to benefit, it is wrong

billagreen:
As it's a known fact that you can't comment here with out accepting there is no other God but Allah.. So what came over you?

Actually that condition was inserted into the Islamic section by Seun upon the instigation of CHRISTIAN moderators in accordance to their usual plot, scheme and conspiracy to tar Islam with a bad brush

I remember this hadith


Ahmed reports that Tariq bin Shihab narrated that Allah's Messenger (Peace be upon him) said:

"A man entered Paradise because of a fly, and a man entered Hell-fire because of a fly. The Companions asked, "How was that possible O Messenger of Allah?" He said, "Two men passed by the people who had an idol by which they would not allow anyone to pass without making sacrifice to it. They ordered one man to make a sacrifice. He said., 'I have nothing to present as an offering. ' The people told him, 'Sacrifice something, even if it be a fly. ' So he presented a fly (to their Idol). They opened the way for him, and thus he entered the Hell fire. They said to the other, 'Sacrifice something. ' He said, 'I will never sacrifice anything to any other than Allah, Most Majestic and Glorious. ' So they struck his throat and killed him, and so he entered Paradise."

BetaThings:

Why did you not ask him why he said so?
And others also took him up and he said he did not understand the context
Should you also not factor that into your conclusion?

I ignored that part because that's how some "I to know" Muslims behave.

He doesn't understand the context and the next was to say "I had a problem", other Muslims knew what my question was and they replied without no form of ego, it is not hard to figure out the context of my question, it is only the ITKs that behave like that.

Actually this is relative
You did not know you had a problem then, did you?
So how come you are so certain that you don't have a problem now?

I had a problem then because I was worried given pagans charity because of some religious dogmas.

I don't have a problem now because I put humanity first.

It is not somebody said or something
It is Allah says or the Prophet (SAW) says.
Anybody can be wrong and that is why Tbaba says Allah knows best

But tbaba was looking for sheikh to answer the question, he doesn't even get what the thread was all about, are there no pagans in U.S or what?

tintingz:
This was a very long time thread i created when am still active in Islam section.

I revived it lol. .lucky you it made fp

BetaThings:
I remember this hadith


Ahmed reports that Tariq bin Shihab narrated that Allah's Messenger (Peace be upon him) said:

What is the difference from this hadith you quoted(about pagans) and the hadiths that ordered apostates to be killed or the hadith's that threaten unbelievers with death if they don't accept Islam, Allah(SWT) and Muhammad(SA)? Is that just?

Empiree:
I revived it lol. .lucky you it made fp

Thanks for resurrecting this thread o.

tintingz:
What is the difference from this hadith you quoted(about pagans) and the hadiths that ordered apostates to be killed or the hadith's that threaten unbelievers with death if they don't accept Islam, Allah(SWT) and Muhammad(SA)? Is that just?

Would you care to explain
1. what you understand by the hadith I quoted
2. the full text of the hadith about killing apostate and
3. the full text of the one that threatens unbelievers with death if they don't accept Islam

tintingz:
Is that just?

My understanding is that others might try to derail a thread, but certainly not by the OP
Is it just to talk about ahadeeth that you did not not quote in full and explain, especially the context

When I read the article below, I looked for comments and found Christians were talking about context, I did not have time to join issues with them but here without explain ahadeeth in full and the context, you are talking about justice!

http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/books/violence-more-common-in-bible-than-quran-text-analysis-reveals-a6863381.html

Further analysis found the Old Testament was more violent than the New Testament, and more than twice as violent as the Quran

tintingz:
other Muslims knew what my question was and they replied without no form of ego, it is not hard to figure out the context of my question, it is only the ITKs that behave like tha.

If you ask a question, you the OP have the responsibility to provide the context, otherwise you would get an inappropriate response
The people who "knew the context" corrected him and he backed up from commenting, saying Allah knows best

tintingz:
He doesn't understand the context and the next was to say "I had a problem".

He did not say specifically that you have a problem; he said, "there is a problem"
it could mean
1. You, the OP, have a problem
2. The way Islam is being taught is problematic or what is being taught is causing problems
3. Teaching proper islamic knowledge has been neglected

You speak about justice,so you too should not just judge others without restraint. Ask for clarifications first. We should not just assume that this person is arrogant because he thinks "he knows too much", and we too might be falling into the same error

tintingz:
I had a problem then because I was worried given pagans charity because of some religious dogmas.

I don't have a problem now because I put humanity first.

Actually you cannot make that claim in regard to what Tbaba said. Tbaba actually put humanity first

Read again what he said

tbaba1234:
when the ayat about giving to orphans and the needy were revealed, were the orphans and needy, muslim?? did the ayat say muslim orphans/needy??

My understanding is that he is saying we should not restrict what has not being restricted by Allah
If a motorist is approached at a traffic stop and the other person claims that he wants to undergo surgery and needs money etc, do you often see the motorist ask him/her her religion, tribe etc. The motorist usually helps or decides not to without asking such questions

But the same motorist who might be a Muslim will might turn down a request by the same person who is now attired like a traditional worshiper who now says the traditional deity will bless the Muslim. I don't need the blessing of a traditional deity and will NOT give because of that.

Like somebody mentioned a group of Muslims refused to give in the name of Osun but did in the name of Allah
I cannot see a Christian faulting this - they will give in Jesus' name but not in the name of any other Prophet they don't recognise
We know that Muslims accord Isa (AS) a lot of respect, but they don't return the favour - so try asking them to give in name of Prophet Muhammad(SAW)

tintingz:
But tbaba was looking for sheikh to answer the question, he doesn't even get what the thread was all about, are there no pagans in U.S or what?

You seem to believe there are no scholars anywhere
Every religion has people who have devoted themselves to studying the religion and tenets
Even in every sphere of life, there are people who are considered authorities - In law, they speak of Denning, people used to speak of Timi the Law in Nigeria
Christians consult their priests, reverends etc some with PhDs in Theology who have studied biblical texts the most
Traditional worshipers consult priests who have studied traditions the most

But you seem to think it is wrong for Tbaba to consult a Sheik who perhaps has a PhD in Islamic jurisprudence!

BetaThings:


Would you care to explain
1. what you understand by the hadith I quoted
2. the full text of the hadith about killing apostate and
3. the full text of the one that threatens unbelievers with death if they don't accept Islam

I don't have time quoting hadiths, you can go quote them out.

The hadiths that talked about killing apostates and the hadith about pagans killing Muslims are the same.

A Muslim did a sacrifice to their(pagan) Gods by killing a fly and his life was spared while the other was killed for not doing so. In Islamic sharia when a Muslim is an apostate he/she will be sentence to death. Islam do sacrifices to Allah the same way the pagans do sacrifices to their Gods, the same practice. What is the fuss all about?

My understanding is that others might try to derail a thread, but certainly not by the OP
Is it just to talk about ahadeeth that you did not not quote in full and explain, especially the context

When I read the article below, I looked for comments and found Christians were talking about context, I did not have time to join issues with them but here without explain ahadeeth in full and the context, you are talking about justice!

http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/books/violence-more-common-in-bible-than-quran-text-analysis-reveals-a6863381.html

I wonder why you're always involving christian to any arguments, can't you do without them?

BetaThings:


If you ask a question, you the OP have the responsibility to provide the context, otherwise you would get an inappropriate response
The people who "knew the context" corrected him and he backed up from commenting, saying Allah knows best

Lol, so the little I narrated in my post was hard to figure out?

This was what the OP post:

As i got down from the bike at a bus stop in lagos this ifa woman as we see them on Lagos streets begging for alm came to me beggin and i gave her money for Allah sake.

What does Islam say about given of alms or charity to pagans?

^^^ How does this need more context? Again are there no pagans in U.S where he lived?

He did not say specifically that you have a problem; he said, "there is a problem"
it could mean
1. You, the OP, have a problem
2. The way Islam is being taught is problematic or what is being taught is causing problems
3. Teaching proper islamic knowledge has been neglected

Mr. Defender he said " The fact that you have to ask this question is a problem..".

The fact that I asked the said question is a problem, which means I had a problem asking such question?

You speak about justice,so you too should not just judge others without restraint. Ask for clarifications first. We should not just assume that this person is arrogant because he thinks "he knows too much", and we too might be falling into the same error

He has already showed an arrogant, egoistic, ITK behavior from his first post until Maclatunji pointed his arrogant out and he later turn two faced. He's not the first Muslim I came across that posses this.

Actually you cannot make that claim in regard to what Tbaba said. Tbaba actually put humanity first

Read again what he said


My understanding is that he is saying we should not restrict what has not being restricted by Allah
If a motorist is approached at a traffic stop and the other person claims that he wants to undergo surgery and needs money etc, do you often see the motorist ask him/her her religion, tribe etc. The motorist usually helps or decides not to without asking such questions

But the same motorist who might be a Muslim will might turn down a request by the same person who is now attired like a traditional worshiper who now says the traditional deity will bless the Muslim. I don't need the blessing of a traditional deity and will NOT give because of that.

What humanity first? You can see the thread was divided, why because you have to be worried about some religious principles before giving alms to the pagans. I won't have created this thread if I had to worry about religious principles before giving pagans charity. I gave a pagan money few days back without no worries or consulting some sheikhs or scholar in matter of humanity.

Many Muslims will be worried "oh my money will be used for rituals" "oh this pagans will bless me with their Gods name" "oh this people are evil believers" etc, but non of this is my problem, anytime I pass by and see this Osun, Ifa worshipers begging I just shake my head in pity about them being rejected and neglected by people, they were loved and cherished years/centuries back.

Like somebody mentioned a group of Muslims refused to give in the name of Osun but did in the name of Allah
I cannot see a Christian faulting this - they will give in Jesus' name but not in the name of any other Prophet they don't recognise
We know that Muslims accord Isa (AS) a lot of respect, but they don't return the favour - so try asking them to give in name of Prophet Muhammad(SAW)

Always involving Christians as usual.

You seem to believe there are no scholars anywhere
Every religion has people who have devoted themselves to studying the religion and tenets
Even in every sphere of life, there are people who are considered authorities - In law, they speak of Denning, people used to speak of Timi the Law in Nigeria
Christians consult their priests, reverends etc some with PhDs in Theology who have studied biblical texts the most
Traditional worshipers consult priests who have studied traditions the most

But you seem to think it is wrong for Tbaba to consult a Sheik who perhaps has a PhD in Islamic jurisprudence!

This is a matter of caring for humanity not a matter of consulting a PhD scholar, you can see the reason I had a problem then.

tintingz:

Mr. Defender he said " The fact that you have to ask this question is a problem..".

Sorry, since you have resorted to name calling, I am calling it quits
That is not my style

BetaThings:


Sorry, since you have resorted to name calling, I am calling it quits
That is not my style

Sorry, apologies.