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Lightning Strikes: Science vs Religion! by Seun(m): 11:42am On May 24, 2013
Not so very long ago, lightning was considered a sign of God's wrath. If you were hit, you were a sinner. Lightning and thunder were the most palpable manifestations of the angry God of the Old Testament, violent and vengeful. The "God-fearing" community thought there was intent behind lightning, they ascribed a conscious purpose to a random process. And lightning is scary as hell, so that was constant reinforcement.

So, when Franklin invented the lightning rod, he immediately came up hard against the religious community. They hated this idea, and they said it was bullshit, that if you were a sinner, God was going to strike you whether you put a metal stick on your house or not. This was a huge controversy, with tremendous argumentation back and forth.

But, well, lightning rods work. Buildings with rods didn't get struck; buildings without, did. And the conflict was finally settled, once and for all, when a church somewhere in Spain was struck by lightning, setting off explosives that were stored underneath, leveling the town and killing most of the people in it. Churches had been thought to be the safest place to store dangerous things, because God would protect them there, and well, a lot of people paid with their lives for that decision -- while whorehouses, sporting the fashionable new lightning rods, never got hit.

It was the first really large conflict between science and religion, where religion made one prediction, and science made a different one.

Science -- and the prostitutes who believed in it -- won.

Source

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Re: Lightning Strikes: Science vs Religion! by PastorAIO: 11:55am On May 24, 2013
I would like to see some documentation of the arguments that passed between the religious and the scientists.

I would have thought since church were, for hundreds of years, the tallest buildings in any town that if there was a thunder storm the church would be hit first. I'm surprised that people felt that the church would be the safest place from a thunder storm. Evidence ought to have proved against it.

1 Like

Re: Lightning Strikes: Science vs Religion! by Caracta(f): 11:59am On May 24, 2013
Seun: manifestations of the angry god of the Old Testament, violent and vengeful.

Like seriously? Smh...
Re: Lightning Strikes: Science vs Religion! by Obinnau(m): 12:02pm On May 24, 2013
When it comes to cases like this, science and religion are usually at loggerheads, u can't really predict which is which.
Re: Lightning Strikes: Science vs Religion! by UyiIredia(m): 12:05pm On May 24, 2013
So what ? The point can't be over-emphasized (given antecedents as Seun's) that many prominent scientists (past and present) are Christians.

1 Like

Re: Lightning Strikes: Science vs Religion! by maclatunji: 12:05pm On May 24, 2013

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Re: Lightning Strikes: Science vs Religion! by azpekuliar: 12:10pm On May 24, 2013
So, Science 1 Religion 0 ...

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Re: Lightning Strikes: Science vs Religion! by Obinnau(m): 12:14pm On May 24, 2013
maclatunji: A Muslim's view on the matter.

http://www.miraclesofthequran.com/scientific_46.html
THE FORMATION OF HAIL, THUNDER AND
LIGHTNING
… He sends down mountains from the sky
with hail inside them, striking with it
anyone He wills and averting it from
anyone He wills. The brightness of His
lightning almost blinds the sight. (Qur'an,
24:43)
The above verse refers to hail and lightning. When
the formation of hail and lightning are examined, it
can be seen that an important meteorological truth is
being indicated in this verse. About the formation of
lightning and hail, the book Meteorology Today says
that a cloud becomes electrified as hail falls through
a region in the cloud of supercooled droplets and ice
crystals. Liquid droplets freeze and release latent
heat as they collide with a hailstone. This keeps the
surface of the hailstone warmer than that of the
surrounding ice crystals. An important phenomenon
occurs when the hailstone comes in contact with an
ice crystal: Electrons flow from the colder object
toward the warmer one. In this way, the hailstone
becomes negatively charged. This effect also occurs
when supercooled droplets come in contact with a
hailstone and small pieces of positively charged ice
break off. These particles, which are lighter and
positively charged, are carried to the upper part of
the cloud by currents of air. The hail has a negative
charge now, and falls towards the bottom of the
cloud, thus the lower part of the cloud becomes
negatively charged. These negative charges are then
discharged as lightning. It may be concluded from
this that hail is the main factor in the formation of
lightning.57
In the following verse, however, attention is drawn to
the link between rain clouds and lightning, and to the
order of formation, information that parallels that
discovered by science:
Or [their likeness is] that of a storm-cloud
in the sky, full of darkness, thunder and
lightning. They put their fingers in their
ears against the thunderclaps, fearful of
death… (Qur'an, 2:19)
Rain clouds are tremendous masses covering 20 to
260 square metres (10 to 100 square miles) and
reaching great vertical heights of 9,000 to 12,000
metres (30,000 to 40,000 ft.). Due to these
extraordinary dimensions, the lower part of these
clouds are dark. It is impossible for the Sun's rays to
pass through them, because of the large quantities of
water and ice particles they contain. Very little solar
energy therefore reaches the Earth through the
clouds, which is why the clouds appear dark to
someone looking up at them.58
The stages of the formation of thunder and lightning
after that darkness, mentioned in the verse, are as
follows: An electrical charge forms inside the rain
cloud. This comes about as a result of such processes
as freezing, the division of raindrops and charge
formation during contact. The accumulation of such
electrical charges, when the air between becomes
unable to insulate them, leads to a great spark, a
discharge between the positive and negative fields.
The voltage between two oppositely charged areas
can reach 1 billion volts. The spark can also form
within the cloud, can cross between two clouds, from
a positively charged area to a negative one, or be
discharged from the cloud to the ground. These
sparks form dazzling lightning strikes. This sudden
increase in the electrical charge along the line of
lightning causes intense heat (10,000 degrees
Centigrade). As a result, there is a sudden expansion
of the air, which in turn causes the loud noise
associated with thunder.59
The thunder glorifies His praise, as do the
angels, out of fear of Him. He discharges the
thunderbolts, striking with them anyone He
wills. Yet still they argue about Allah when He
is inexorable in His power!
(Qur’an, 13:13)
As has been discussed, dark layers, followed by the
electrically charged sparks known as lightning, and
then the loud noise called thunder, form within a rain
cloud. Everything modern science has established
about clouds, and has to say about the causes of
thunder and lightning, is in complete accord with the
descriptions in the Qur'an.
57. C. Donald Ahrens, Meteorology Today: An
Introduction to Weather, Climate and Environment,
3rd ed. (St. Paul: West Publishing Company: 1988),
437.
58. Athar Lila, “The Quran and Modern Physics,” 10
December 1998, http://webhome.idirect.com/~alila/
Writings/Physics.htm.
59. Ibid.
Re: Lightning Strikes: Science vs Religion! by EvilBrain1(m): 12:16pm On May 24, 2013
In June 2010, giant 6 storey tall statue of Jesus in the US was struck by lightning and burnt to the ground. A Hustler video store selling pôrnographic materials right across the street was completely undamaged.


[url]m.guardiannews.com/world/2010/jun/16/touchdown-jesus-statue-burns-down[/url]

Reality is no respecter of religion.

9 Likes

Re: Lightning Strikes: Science vs Religion! by EvilBrain1(m): 12:38pm On May 24, 2013
Rwligious statues are constantly being hit by lightning because they are often the highest points in the area, and they commonly dont include basic safety precautions like lightning rods.

From the Washington Post

Ohio's Jesus statue is just the latest religious statue to be struck by lightning.

It appears God has sacrificed his only son. Again.
A bolt struck a 62-foot-tall statue of Jesus Christ on Monday outside a church in Monroe, Ohio, and the statue erupted in flames. All that remains is a charred steel skeleton, its spindly arms stretched toward heaven, a gesture that once earned it the nickname "Touchdown Jesus." Darlene Bishop, co-pastor of Solid Rock Church, says she's simply relieved that the lightning hit Jesus and not the home for at-risk women next door. "I told them, 'It looks like Jesus took a hit for you last night,' " she says. Act of God? Act of nature? In 2008, lightning singed the fingers and eyebrows of Christ the Redeemer, the 130-foot Jesus statue that stands over Rio de Janeiro. In 2007, a bolt blasted the 33-foot Jesus statue at Mother Cabrini Shrine in Golden, Colo. One of Jesus's arms fell off. The saints and angels are not safe either. The Notre Dame de Chicago's Virgin Mary burst into flames from her perch atop the church's dome in 1978; the Engineering News Record covered the construction of a new, lightning resistant statue with the headline: "Burned once, dome reMaryed." A bolt that struck St. Joan of Arc's statue in New Orleans sliced her brandished staff in half. Statues of the Angel Moroni, which frequently top Mormon churches, have been hit by lightning with such frequency -- Moroni's horn is particularly
susceptible -- that the Salt Lake Tribune once fretted over their safety in a front-page story.
(Side note: Actor James Caviezel was struck by lightning in 2003 while filming Mel Gibson's "The Passion of the Christ." He was playing Jesus.) Believer or not, we can always count on lightning to energize the what-does-it-mean lobes of our brain.
Ancient Romans equated statues being struck by lightning with bad omens, such as chickens beginning to talk and blood raining from the sky. Presumably, the latter two were less-frequent events.
To find some modern-day meaning in Touchdown Jesus, we turned to Pat Robertson, host of "The 700 Club," who has divined meaning from Hurricane Katrina (abortionists?) and the Haitian earthquake (historic pact with the Devil?). Alas, he declined through a publicist to interpret the significance of the lightning strike.

www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/06/15/AR2010061505135.html
Re: Lightning Strikes: Science vs Religion! by dridowu: 1:02pm On May 24, 2013
Science seems to have an answer to some natural thing but sha Religion will surely supercede science
Re: Lightning Strikes: Science vs Religion! by EvilBrain1(m): 1:19pm On May 24, 2013
dridowu: Science seems to have an answer to some natural thing but sha Religion will surely supercede science

Wishful thinking? Every single time in history that religion and science have disagreed, religion has always lost. So I'd like to know what makes you think religion is ever going to supercede anything.

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Re: Lightning Strikes: Science vs Religion! by PastorAIO: 1:26pm On May 24, 2013
Evil Brain: Rwligious statues are constantly being hit by lightning because they are often the highest points in the area, and they commonly dont include basic safety precautions like lightning rods.

From the Washington Post



www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/06/15/AR2010061505135.html

I find it odd that the quran should say that ( striking with it
anyone He wills and averting it from
anyone He wills.) Cos surely for many centuries mosques would also have been the tallest buildings in the area meaning that Allah would have often struck his places of worship. According to his will, of course.


It appears God has sacrificed his only son. Again.
LOL!!
Re: Lightning Strikes: Science vs Religion! by Nobody: 1:35pm On May 24, 2013
Uyi Iredia: So what ? The point can't be over-emphasized (given antecedents as Seun's) that many prominent scientists (past and present) are Christians.

Are you insinuating that Christianity gave birth to scientists?

Being a scientist has nothing to do with religion. Science is never led by religious beliefs or dogmas.
Re: Lightning Strikes: Science vs Religion! by Nobody: 1:53pm On May 24, 2013
Please, where is the argument?
Because everything seems like an assumption on the position of religionist.
Which of the religions? Like someone is ascribing the belief of a particular religion to religion in general.
I need to be clarified.
Re: Lightning Strikes: Science vs Religion! by Nobody: 2:14pm On May 24, 2013
I got this from some religious book. Can't remember which one.

Job 36:32 He fills his hands with lightning and commands it to strike its mark.
Re: Lightning Strikes: Science vs Religion! by alosiby: 2:19pm On May 24, 2013
so.........scientists are prostitutes? undecided
point taken.
Re: Lightning Strikes: Science vs Religion! by Nobody: 2:23pm On May 24, 2013
alosiby: so.........scientists are prostitutes? undecided
point taken.
lol
Re: Lightning Strikes: Science vs Religion! by mazaje(m): 2:24pm On May 24, 2013
When its religion vs science, science always wins. . .Science is objective while religion is subjective mythology and supposition. . .Another thing is the rainbow. . .According to the Hindus the rainbow is the necklace of some wired goddess, which she shines upon the earth after she has taken her bath when it rains, while the christian mythology says the rainbow is the covennant between some Jewish tribal diety Yahweh and his people to let them know that he will never again destroy the world with flood. . .Then came science and it showed us that rainbow is just a refraction of light when it comes in contact with water droplets in the atmosphere. Any where light is refracted against water droplets in the atmoshpere a rainbow occurs, in the beach, in your garden, in the sky any where. . .Science always wins. . .

2 Likes

Re: Lightning Strikes: Science vs Religion! by UyiIredia(m): 2:43pm On May 24, 2013
musKeeto:

Are you insinuating that Christianity gave birth to scientists?

Being a scientist has nothing to do with religion. Science is never led by religious beliefs or dogmas.

No. Just debunking the insinuation that religion hampers science.
Re: Lightning Strikes: Science vs Religion! by ayobase(m): 3:15pm On May 24, 2013
Why hasn't this made it to the front page yet.....Oga Seun, pls go edit ur duplicated post biko!

Science can prove anything to be through, that what Thomas wanted. PROVE IT TO ME AND I WILL BELIEVE.

The fact u don't believe in God makes is so easy to counter anything SUPERNATURAL.

As far as I'm concerned, God hasn't changed, but we.

God created rain, sun, thunder, lightning, snow, fog and the likes, but we still have to protect ourselves from them in some ways.

If God has used just simple rain (water) to wipe out the earth before, then I don't see why he can't use others to do the same, besides He is gonna use fire later. That's left for you to believe or not!

I LIVE BY FAITH, and not by SIGHT!

God is the greatest scientist, Engineer, Author, Builder, Architect........ A creator begat creator!

Have you asked yourself why the INVENTORS are predominantly Christians or Jews?

3 Likes

Re: Lightning Strikes: Science vs Religion! by Nobody: 3:17pm On May 24, 2013
ayobase:
Have you asked yourself why the INVENTORS are predominantly Christians or Jews?
And you got this from where?
Re: Lightning Strikes: Science vs Religion! by ayobase(m): 3:26pm On May 24, 2013
musKeeto:
And you got this from where?

Can u prove me otherwise?

Or u wanna call them moralists or atheists?
Re: Lightning Strikes: Science vs Religion! by Nobody: 3:31pm On May 24, 2013
ayobase:

Can u prove me otherwise?

Or u wanna call them moralists or atheists?
You made a claim, I ask for a source, and you ask me to prove you otherwise.

Good Christian thinking.

3 Likes

Re: Lightning Strikes: Science vs Religion! by FOLYKAZE(m): 3:56pm On May 24, 2013
I remember OLAADEGBU when he said Science is the forbidden fruit the serpent deceived Eve and Adam to eat.

He made a point that science means knowledge.

I see the reason now why christians are wield with superstition and day dreaming. They refuse to eat from the forbidden fruit. Their God created them back in days as ignorant, robot and zombie

Indeed science (knowledge) is the forbidden fruit

Ignorance and knowledge cant work together in the same sense that religion and science cant go same way.

Science will ever beats Religion

1 Like

Re: Lightning Strikes: Science vs Religion! by Obinoscopy(m): 4:00pm On May 24, 2013
Lightening strike should not bring conflict between science and religion. This is because a lightening strike could be due to a huge potential difference between the lower base of a negatively charged cloud and a positively charged surface on earth OR it could be due to spiritual intervention.

Most of the lightening strike we witness can be explained scientifically and can be prevented or neutralised with the aid of a lightening rod. But there are few cases of supernatural lightening strikes, such strikes cannot be prevented with all the lightening rods put together.

1 Like

Re: Lightning Strikes: Science vs Religion! by maclatunji: 4:12pm On May 24, 2013
mazaje: When its religion vs science, science always wins. . .Science is onjective while religion is subjective mythology and supposition. . .Another thing is the rainbow. . .According to the Hindus the rainbow is the necklace of some wired goddess, which she shines uppon the earth after she has taken her bath when it rains, while the christian mythology says the rainbow is the covennant between some Jewish tribal diety Yahweh and his people to let them know that he will never again destroy the world with flood. . .Then came science and it showed us that rainbow is just a refraction of light when it comes in contact with water droplets in the atmosphere. Any where light is refracted against water droplets in the atmoshpere a rainbow occurs, in the beach, in your garden, in the sky any where. . .Science alwys wins. . .

Yeah, like science gave you infant formula, only for science to realise later that breastfeeding human babies by their mothers is best as prescribed in the Qur'an 1400
years ago.

God be he blessed and exalted says: (The
mothers shall give suck to their children
for two whole years, (that is) for those
(parents) who desire to complete the term
of suckling) [Surat al-Baqarah, verse: 233].

http://kaheel7.com/eng/index.php/miracles-for-kids/272-breastfeeding-for-two-full-years

It is a fallacy to think that science is the exclusive preserve of Atheists.

The Qur'an calls upon Muslims to observe
around them and study the physical world, so
that they might appreciate the majesty of
Allah's creation. "Behold! In the creation of
the heavens and the earth; in the
alternation of the night and the day; in
the sailing of the ships through the ocean
for the benefit of mankind; in the rain
which Allah Sends down from the skies,
and the life which He gives therewith to
an earth that is dead; in the beasts of all
kinds that He scatters through the earth;
in the change of the winds, and the clouds
which they trail like their slaves between
the sky and the earth -- (Here) indeed are
Signs for a people that are wise." (Surah Al-
Baqarah, 2:164)

http://www.irfi.org/articles/articles_101_150/quran_inspires_modern_science.htm

A good Muslim should be a researcher, inherently a scientist.
Re: Lightning Strikes: Science vs Religion! by EvilBrain1(m): 4:14pm On May 24, 2013
Uyi Iredia:

No. Just debunking the insinuation that religion hampers science.

Maybe you should help us tell those crazy people in America that teach children young earth creationism as science in their Christian private schools.

Your fellow Christians are lying to kids that the loch ness monster is real (its a dinosaur!) and that the earth is only 6000 years old. They are actively dumbing down the next generation of physicists, biologists, engineers and doctors with their bronze age myths. They are doing their very best to return the world to the dark ages where superstition ruled society and critical thinking was strongly discouraged.

But that's not hampering science at all. Religion doesn't hamper science. Uyi Iredia said so, therefore it must be true.

2 Likes

Re: Lightning Strikes: Science vs Religion! by Oahray: 4:31pm On May 24, 2013
Come to think of it, I'v never come across anywhere in the bible that says every lightning is a manifestation of God's anger. Overzealous critics perhaps? First of all, science isn't the same as atheism. There are many religious scientists. Newton was one.

It's like the HELIOCENTRIC VS GEOCENTRIC saga. The church based its geocentric position on the 'Joshua and the sun standing still' account, forgetting to recognise that it was narrated from a layman's point of view. However, that does not discredit the Bible.

Not that science is any better. For example, years ago SPONTANEOUS GENERATION was considered a theory and widely accepted by scientists. The Bible said creatures reproduce (living organism from living organism) according to their kind, centuries before the 'cell theory' was established. It's obvious who won. However,it does not discredit science either.

5 Likes

Re: Lightning Strikes: Science vs Religion! by UyiIredia(m): 4:33pm On May 24, 2013
Evil Brain:

Maybe you should help us tell those crazy people in America that teach children young earth creationism as science in their Christian private schools.

Your fellow Christians are lying to kids that the loch ness monster is real (its a dinosaur!) and that the earth is only 6000 years old. They are actively dumbing down the next generation of physicists, biologists, engineers and doctors with their bronze age myths. They are doing their very best to return the world to the dark ages where superstition ruled society and critical thinking was strongly discouraged.

But that's not hampering science at all. Religion doesn't hamper science. Uyi Iredia said so, therefore it must be true.

Whilst the religious motivation can't be ignored it's likely there are cogent arguments as to why they believe these things.
Re: Lightning Strikes: Science vs Religion! by EvilBrain1(m): 4:47pm On May 24, 2013
maclatunji:

Yeah, like science gave you infant formula, only for science to realise later that breastfeeding human babies by their mothers is best as prescribed in the Qur'an 1400
years ago.

God be he blessed and exalted says: (The
mothers shall give suck to their children
for two whole years, (that is) for those
(parents) who desire to complete the term
of suckling) [Surat al-Baqarah, verse: 233].

Right! Because people didn't. know that they were supposed to breastfeed babies until the Koran told them. FYI, breast milk substitutes have existed in one form or the other since prehistoric times. All science did was to make the stuff safer and more similar to real breast milk.

It is a fallacy to think that science is the exclusive preserve of Atheists.

Correct. And thats why no sane atheist believes or says that.

The Qur'an calls upon Muslims to observe
around them and study the physical world, so
that they might appreciate the majesty of
Allah's creation. "Behold! In the creation of
the heavens and the earth; in the
alternation of the night and the day; in
the sailing of the ships through the ocean
for the benefit of mankind; in the rain
which Allah Sends down from the skies,
and the life which He gives therewith to
an earth that is dead; in the beasts of all
kinds that He scatters through the earth;
in the change of the winds, and the clouds
which they trail like their slaves between
the sky and the earth -- (Here) indeed are
Signs for a people that are wise." (Surah Al-
Baqarah, 2:164)


The koran also tell us that salt water and fresh water don't mix. And Muslim teachers have been teaching children this obvious rubbish in spite of the fact that its demonstrably false. Because it has to be true because the Koran says so, even though it isnt.

A good Muslim should be a researcher, inherently a scientist.

I totally agree. The problem is that the "true" Muslims; i.e. those who believe and obey the Koran and hadith completely and entirely; are always irrational fanatics. The good Muslim scientists are the ones who are able to ignore the crazy parts of the scriptures and willing to pursue the truth even when it contradicts their faith. Muslims like that are far too rare these days.

5 Likes

Re: Lightning Strikes: Science vs Religion! by EvilBrain1(m): 5:11pm On May 24, 2013
Uyi Iredia:

Whilst the religious motivation can't be ignored it's likely there are cogent arguments as to why they believe these things.

Maybe you could do us all a favour and go to conservapedia.com, Answers in Genesis, and any of the other dark corners of the internet where creationists lurk, to discover these "cogent arguments" and post them here for us.

I'd like to hear a cogent argument about how the animals on Noah's ark were able to breathe at 8,800 metres altitude and how come they didnt freeze to death since the flood waters were high enough to cover the highest mountains including Everest.

I'd like to hear a cogent argument explaining how the Loch Ness monster is real.

Normally, I would go conservapedia.com myself to find those cogent arguments, but the last time I visited that site, the rubbish I read there shook my faith in humanity to its core. I'm not brave enough to enter there again.

But you, Uyi Iredia, you can be the hero we need. You can boldly go where others won't. Only you can bring us. the cogent arguments!

Will you accept this mission?

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