bigfrancis21: @Macof

You didn't have to call her that only because she disagreed with you.

And yes, she's right. Nothing like 'Jews' or 'Jewish' existed during the time of Christ. The Jews as you call them today were called Hebrews back then. The name, 'Jews' came to be several centuries after.

I know this bit. however answer this:

So the name "Yoruba" didn't exist until the fulani/Oyo war does that mean Yoruba didn't exist before that?

The name "Jesus" didn't exist until the English Bible was written, does that mean Jesus didn't exist?

And you jst hump into defense without reading to understand, if you read her post you would see her call Jews Euro/Americans

macof:
I know this bit. however answer this:

So the name "Yoruba" didn't exist until the fulani/Oyo war does that mean Yoruba didn't exist before that?

Actually yes. Many people in the past spoke Yoruba who were not ethnically related to others who also spoke Yoruba, or to the original speakers. Sometimes it was people brought together by conquest, migration etc. Then someone comes along and sees them all speaking the language and labels them all 'Yoruba people'.

It's a bit like saying just because we all speak English in Nigeria doesn't make us Englishmen. We speak English because we were conquered by English speaking people a century ago who imposed their language on the country.

macof:
I know this bit. however answer this:

So the name "Yoruba" didn't exist until the fulani/Oyo war does that mean Yoruba didn't exist before that?

The name "Jesus" didn't exist until the English Bible was written, does that mean Jesus didn't exist?

And you jst hump into defense without reading to understand, if you read her post you would see her call Jews Euro/Americans

I think you're confusing things here. We are talking about the existence of the name 'Jewish' or 'Yoruba' and not if the people actually existed. During the time of Christ, the Jews were not called Jews then. They were called Hebrews and their language was called Hebrew too. The name 'Jew' was borne out of the name of their religion, Judaism, several centuries after the death of Christ.

That Yoruba as a term didn't exist before the Fulanis brought it doesn't mean they didn't exist as a people. They did but identified themselves by their sub-clan names, just as in the case of Igbos. I could decide to take a new name at age, say 30, and answer it thenceforth but that doesn't mean I didn't exist before I took the new name. What I had was simply a change of name.

Likewise the Jews. What they simply had was a change of name from Hebrews to Jews. During the slave trade, it was noted somewhere that the Arochukwus of Abia state introduced themselves as Heeboes. It is believed that the etymology of the word 'Igbo' started out from the word, 'Hebrew' and evolved into what we have today. Hebrew, Heebo, Ebo, Igbo.

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bigfrancis21:

I think you're confusing things here. We are talking about the existence of the name 'Jewish' or 'Yoruba' and not if the people actually existed. During the time of Christ, the Jews were not called Jews then. They were called Hebrews and their language was called Hebrew too. The name 'Jew' was borne out of the name of their religion, Judaism, several centuries after the death of Christ.

That Yoruba as a term didn't exist before the Fulanis brought it doesn't mean they didn't exist as a people. They did but identified themselves by their sub-clan names, just as in the case of Igbos. I could decide to take a new name at age, say 30, and answer it thenceforth but that doesn't mean I didn't exist before I took the new name. What I had was simply a change of name.

Likewise the Jews. What they simply had was a change of name from Hebrews to Jews. During the slave trade, it was noted somewhere that the Arochukwus of Abia state introduced themselves as Heeboes. It is believed that the etymology of the word 'Igbo' started out from the word, 'Hebrew' and evolved into what we have today. Hebrew, Heebo, Ebo, Igbo.

Actually, the bolded isn't exactly accurate. The Hebrew language wasn't in use as a spoken language during the time of Jesus. The spoken language was Aramaic; Hebrew was only the language of liturgy (the way Catholics use Latin in worship); and many Jews didn't even understand it.

While they sometimes used 'Hebrew' to describe themselves, the more important ethnic name in use at the time of Jesus was 'Yehudi'. 'Yehudi' is the same name as 'Judah', the son of Jacob from whom most of the Hebrews of the time of Jesus traced their descent. The Greeks corrupted the name to 'Ioudais'; the Romans corrupted it to 'Iudaeus'. The 'd' was dropped and we got the English version of the name - 'Jew'. So techically, the word 'Jew' was in use at the time of Jesus, even long before Christ.... The only thing is, because they didn't speak English, they couldn't possibly have used the English version of the name. The same way French people don't call themselves 'French' in their own language, but use the French variant, 'Francais'.

Don't forget the sign that was put on Jesus' Cross - INRI, Iesus Nazarenum Rex Iudaeroum. In translation, it is 'Jesus of Nazareth, King of the Jews.' Not 'Jesus of Nazareth King of the Hebrews.'

If Jesus Chris really came to earth,what did he do and what his mission,was he crucified truly?

do you mean all the pastor/imam talking about hell fire are lying?


Please, i need answers i beg

Arcsniper: If Jesus Chris really came to earth,what did he do and what his mission,was he crucified truly?

do you mean all the pastor/imam talking about hell fire are lying?


Please, i need answers i beg

If you were God would you create a place of eternal torture for your children who had ''sinned'' during their human lifetimes?

There.

You have your answer.

Rossikk:

Actually yes. Many people in the past spoke Yoruba who were not ethnically related to others who also spoke Yoruba, or to the original speakers. Sometimes it was people brought together by conquest, migration etc. Then someone comes along and sees them all speaking the language and labels them all 'Yoruba people'.

It's a bit like saying just because we all speak English in Nigeria doesn't make us Englishmen. We speak English because we were conquered by English speaking people a century ago who imposed their language on the country.

I see you know nothing about Yoruba history.

Yoruba people are not linked by language but my ethnical origin

^^^ Educate yourself before trying to educate others.

Rossikk:

If you were God would you create a place of eternal torture for your children who had ''sinned'' during their human lifetimes?

There.

You have your answer.

yes,i can do that
if you don't obey instructions,and i have warned you about hell fire,since i have warned you and and you refuse to obey,then you face the consequence.
You shouldn't have asked such question,cos i might b the cruel type.

so now that my answer is YES, that means,you and op are telling lies??

Radoillo:

Actually, the bolded isn't exactly accurate. The Hebrew language wasn't in use as a spoken language during the time of Jesus. The spoken language was Aramaic; Hebrew was only the language of liturgy (the way Catholics use Latin in worship); and many Jews didn't even understand it.

...

Don't forget the sign that was put on Jesus' Cross - INRI, Iesus Nazarenum Rex Iudaeroum. In translation, it is 'Jesus of Nazareth, King of the Jews.' Not 'Jesus of Nazareth King of the Hebrews. '

@Bold 1...Jesus grew up speaking Aramaic because the Hebrews at that time were under the reign of foreign people and under an imposed language. That doesn't mean Hebrew wasn't spoken at all during his time. It was spoken, but maybe to a lesser extent.

@Bold 2...Iudaeroum is translated into 'Jew' in English but were the Hebrews calling exactly themselves 'Jews' during that time? Did they pronounce 'Iudaeroum' fully as exactly as it is spelt or did they just cut it short and pronounce it 'Jew'?

The Hebrews probably referred to themselves as 'Iudaeroum', and not 'Jews' circa the time of Jesus time and many years after to come because they were not speaking English but Hebrew, Aramaic, etc.

Don't forget that during the times of the early church, the bible was written in Greek, Aramaic, latin, Hebrew etc. There was no English translation of the Bible then, which would have come with its own English translation of 'Iudaeroum' to 'Jew'. The English translation of the bible was to come several years after.

Since it seems likely that 'Jew' is an English translation and the Hebrews didn't speak English during the time of Christ, then it is very unlikely that they referred themselves as 'Jews' or that word existed during that time.

The Middle English word 'Jew' derives from Old English where the word is attested as early as 1000 in various forms, such as Iudeas, Gyu, Giu, Iuu, Iuw, Iew. These terms derive from Old French giu, earlier juieu, which had elided (dropped) the letter "d" from the Medieval Latin Iudaeus, which, like the Greek Ἰουδαῖος (see Ioudaioi), meant both Jews and Judeans / "of Judea".

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jew_(word)

Year 1000 is 1000 years after Jesus Christ died. That was when the word 'Jew' came into existence.

Arcsniper:

yes, i can do that

if you don't obey instructions,and i have warned you about hell fire,since i have warned you and and you refuse to obey,then you face the consequence.
You shouldn't have asked such question, cos i might b the cruel type.

so now that my answer is YES, that means,you and op are telling lies??

You believe God is cruel?

Arcsniper:
yes,i can do that
if you don't obey instructions,and i have warned you about hell fire,since i have warned you and and you refuse to obey,then you face the consequence.
You shouldn't have asked such question,cos I might b the cruel type.

so now that my answer is YES, that means,you and op are telling lies??

That means you are not loving, or kind

If we use this to describe ur God then he is cruel not love

Then the Bible is a lie

Rossikk: ^^^ Educate yourself before trying to educate others.

Was this intended to offend me

No.

Rossikk:

You believe God is cruel?

i said u shouldn't have asked such question cos i might b the cruel type,i said ME.but am not wicked though.
pls can you give me ur 2go/facebook username for better chat with you please i beg

Arcsniper: ROSSIKE,now that their is no hell fire,i will start doing bad things,since its considered as human ignorance,i will join boko haram,

It is because of attitudes like these and people that paraded reasoning such as this that made the early church fathers to delete the theory of reincarnation from the church's teachings and edit out all references of reincarnation from the bible.

They discovered that preaching the theology of coming back to earth after a current life time to correct one's wrong made people to be lazy about life and not take it serious. People started feeling that they'd do all manner of things they wanted since they'd still come back again. 'Let us then use this lifetime to do as we want, live life to the fullest of the pleasures of the body, when we come back again we'll live right'. Many people started to not take life seriously as an opportunity for spiritual evolution, soul growth and escaping the cycle of death and rebirth. The church fathers found it convenient to delete all sources of reincarnation and propagate the 'theory' of a one-time-only life time and the promise of a 'hell fire' for those who live 'wrong', thus instilling fear in the minds of the populace and making them to take life seriously.

That hell fire doesn't exist doesn't give you free reins to do as you like. The law of karma is very active and ensures that the universal law of justice is kept and carried out. The excessive wrongs you accumulate in this lifetime, you will pay for all of them in the next lifetime or in many lifetimes depending on the magnitude of your wrongdoings. Injustice must be paid for. Have you ever wondered why certain people are born with pitiable unimaginable deformities from birth? Or why certain people suffer from incurable diseases for their whole life time or a great part of it? You are only human and blinded for you only see the current life form. You don't know the soul history of that soul and what prompted his incarnation into a body of deformity. For many cases, it is a way of balancing off of wrongdoings done in the past.

However, it is not all physically disabled persons that are paying off karma. In some many situations and from the soul level, being born into a body of physical difficulties always proves to be a good opportunity to learn certain life lessons. Life lessons such as humility, detachment from worldly things, compassion, etc - life lessons that some souls would find very difficult to learn if they keep incarnating into bodies of easy lifetimes. On the other side and in our soul existence, easy lifetimes on earth are looked down and 'difficult' ones are preferred because they help to focus the inhabiting soul on the important things and lessons of life, which when given easy lifetimes we forget to realize and learn and get carried away instead by the lures and vanities of life. Such 'difficult' lifetimes helps to hasten sould growth and ensure fast graduation from the cycle of death and rebirth.

macof:

That means you are not loving, or kind

If we use this to describe ur God then he is cruel not love

Then the Bible is a lie

you asked me 'what will ''i'' do' and not asking me about God

bigfrancis21:

It is because of attitudes like these and people that paraded reasoning such as this that made the early church fathers to delete the theory of reincarnation from the church's teachings and edit out all references of reincarnation from the bible.

....................cutting the story short.

i won't and and can't do that,i don't even believe all what u have said..am just tryin to tell you that i don't believe you.

bigfrancis21:

@Bold 1...Jesus grew up speaking Aramaic because the Hebrews at that time were under the reign of foreign people and under an imposed language. That doesn't mean Hebrew wasn't spoken at all during his time. It was spoken, but maybe to a lesser extent.

Accepted. Hebrew was a minority language during Jesus' time. The predominant tongue was Aramaic, not neccessarily because they were then ruled by foreigners. The Romans who ruled them at the time of Christ spoke Latin; and before the Romans they were ruled by the Macedonians who spoke Greek. Jews had been speaking Aramaic since their return from Exile in Babylon, and that was hundreds of years before Christ was born.

Since it seems likely that 'Jew' is an English translation and the Hebrews didn't speak English during the time of Christ, then it is very unlikely that they referred themselves as 'Jews' or that word existed during that time.

Of course they never used the exact word, 'Jew'. Same way Jesus was never actually called 'Jesus'.

But using your line of debate, one could say they never saw or referred to themselves as 'Hebrews' either. They called themselves 'Ibhri' or 'Ibhrai'. The Greeks pronounced it as 'Hebraios'; the Romans rendered it as 'Hebraeus'; it entered the French language as 'Ebreu'. The English borrowed 'Ebreu' and wrote it as 'Hebrew'.

So really, if we reject the English versions of these words as being representative terms for the earlier people, then we might as well say that there were no Hebrews or Jews until modern times. What we had were 'Ibhri' and 'Yehudim'. LOL.

Personally, I think 'Yehudim' or 'Iudaeroum' is representative of 'Jewish', and it is accurate for an English speaker to speak of a 'Jewish' people being in existence at the time of Christ....Never mind the linguistic variations.

But really,i'm derailing this interesting debate.... Please, carry on.

bigfrancis21:

It is because of attitudes like these and people that paraded reasoning such as this that made the early church fathers to delete the theory of reincarnation from the church's teachings and edit out all references of reincarnation from the bible.

....................cutting the story short.

pls can i get ur Facebook/2go username i will love to chat with you too.please

Radoillo: But really,i'm derailing this interesting debate.... Please, carry on.

u go give them mb abi?

Arcsniper: u go give them mb abi?

L L

Arcsniper: If Jesus Chris really came to earth,what did he do and what his mission,was he crucified truly?

do you mean all the pastor/imam talking about hell fire are lying?


Please, i need answers i beg

Jesus Christ is the perfect example of what human beings are to achieve on earth. He's the epitome of God's desire for us. Jesus Christ incarnated on earth severally and evolved fast during his life times. His first incarnation was as Adam and his last was as Jesus. His last lifetime on earth was a mission to preach to the people of earth the true purpose of life. God sent him to come to earth and preach about the true mission of life which is to love. His message was a message of love.

However, his true and original message has been severely distorted in the Christiantiy of today. The bible is made of books written by people several years after the death of Jesus Christ - people who never heard or saw Jesus Christ preach live. Are you aware that almost all of Jesus disciples, people who were live witnesses to the exact message Jesus Christ preached, wrote their own gospels? We have the Gospel of Bartholomew, Gospel of Philip, Gospel of Andrew, etc. Yet these gospels never made their way into the bible. What we have are gospels, except the Gospel of John, that were written based on 'hearsay' and stories of mouth that were passed down to them by their fathers about the life of Jesus christ. If you've really gone through the bible, you'll notice that the Gospel of John differs greatly from the other 3 gospels(The Gospels of Matthew, Mark and Luke - the 3 of whom their Gospels were written 60-120 years after the death of Christ) because John, being Jesus' disciple, actually physically heard and saw Jesus christ preach. Surprisingly these 3 gospels made their way into the bible. And the gospels of the disciples of Jesus Christ were branded as heresy by the early church fathers because they carried so much deep transcendental knowledge about the afterlife which many couldn't understand. These Gospels are called the Gnostic gospels. And the true message of Jesus Christ messages lies in the Gnostic gospels.

You'll be surprised to read the theory of reincarnation, karma, pre-birth existence of the soul(ie the existence of the soul in the afterlife before being born on earth), the memory veil, energy balancing etc - topics considered un-christian today, coming out from the mouth of Jesus. You'd be shocked to discover that Jesus Christ preached reincarnation, karma, pre-birth experience etc.

Hell is a man-made theory. Hell fire doesn't exist. Rather we have a mass bottomless dark pit devoid of God's love and light where certain souls, who lived very negative lives, go for temporary probation and life reflection. As we speak, there are millions of souls groping around endlessly in the thick darkness of the place. However, hope is not lost for them as they are given a second chance to correct their mistakes through the pathway of reincarnation.

The topic of spirituality is a very deep one and cannot be exhausted in a day.

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Arcsniper: pls can i get ur Facebook/2go username i will love to chat with you too.please

Visit my profile and send me an email. I'll respond to you.

Arcsniper: i won't and and can't do that,i don't even believe all what u have said..am just tryin to tell you that i don't believe you.

No problem then. You don't need to believe me anyway because deep down your soul already knows all these truths. You're only living in a state of temporary forgetfulness, just as others are, induced by the placing of the memory veil on your memory as you were leaving the spirit world for earth so that you don't remember your pre-birth experience, which will be lifted away from you immediately upon dying.

Radoillo: But really,i'm derailing this interesting debate.... Please, carry on.

This is not a debate. Nobody is debating anything here. The aim of the thread is to bring to limelight the true spiritual truths of the universe. Whether one believes it is left to one.

I still clearly remember my pre-birth experience, especially the last moments preceding my birth on earth and the life selection stage where I saw this my life in advance and 'preselected' certain things the way I wanted. I also remember telling myself that I would never forget like millions of people on earth that I existed before birth. I imprinted these memories deeply in my soul and left. I remembered these memories very well as a child but forgot a bit during my teenage years. Now as an adult, I only have half of the memories I took with me when I left. The memory veil is still in place as I don't remember details of my existence in the afterlife preceding my life selection stage.

bigfrancis21:

No problem then. You don't need to believe me anyway because deep down your soul already knows all these truths. You're only living in a state of temporary forgetfulness, just as others are, induced by the placing of the memory veil on your memory as you were leaving the spirit world for earth so that you don't remember your pre-birth experience, which will be lifted away from you immediately upon dying.

how do you know??

wonderlander: there's hell,no sin goes unpunished,God cannot be mocked,God only saves those who genuinely seek him.if you think you are going straight to heaven once you die after being evil and rejecting God then thats wrong.you will experience what it feels like without God.
i'm surprised none of you know about Howard Storm ,in fact all NDE researchers have now agreed that his account is the most Profound.wherever NDEs are mentioned Howard Storm comes to mind. he was an atheist.
a lot of people lie about their experience. the real NDEs that I would recommend would be Mickey Robinson,Howard Storm,Dr Eben Alexander,Dannion Brinkley, etc these people got disfigured in plane crash,electrocution etc and there's documents ,scars and witnesses of their death,theres no way they would have lied .
just because another spirit being which was not Jesus received you on the other side doesn't mean he doesn't exist.there are a lot of arch angels,everyone has a guardian angel just like Godfather or mother in this world.your family member,guardian angel or Jesus can receive you.
anyone who does the will of God will recognize jesus there whether you heard of him or not.
Pre birth and reincarnation is unimportant topic .we should be concerned about perfecting our hearts.love fellow human ,etcwe must learn what it means to be humble,charitable.

Let me tell you something, in the afterlife you have the ability to bring thoughts into reality by just thinking of them. You have the ability of creating events, stuffs, scenarios by just using your thoughts. Think of something and bam it appears right in front of you.

Any strong religious beliefs you had about the afterlife and carry it with you when you die, at that initial moment of soul separation from the body you see exactly what you had imagined the afterlife to be. If you had imagined all your life to see two roads, one bigger and one smaller when you die, and you carry that belief with you on dying, that's exactly what you'll see initially until you suddenly realize that what you're seeing is only a figment of your imagination, then the scenario clears away. If you imagined heaven to have a giant gate made of shiny gold pearls with St. Peter standing at the entrance determining who goes in and who doesn't, that's exactly what you see on dying. If you expect to see a hell fire with fire and brimstones falling down with good-ol' dante prodding you with shears, that's exactly what you will see.

I've read hundreds of NDEs. http://www.nderf.org And only a tiny few of NDErs have reported seeing a hell. And have you ever wondered why these few 'hellish' NDEs were reported only by fundamentalist Christians? No hellish NDE whatsoever has been reported by liberal christians or members of other religions. They are more popular with fundamentalist christians who belong to fundamentalism where the theory of hell fire is greatly preached.

My dear, hell fire doesn't exist. Not in the sense of a fire and brimstones with people screaming endlessly. God would never doom any of his own to hellfire, not even for a day let alone for eternity.

You limit an almighty God to your bible folktales of him. For if you truly know God you'd know that the theory of hell fire is man-made.